Jerry Was wondering if you had nay comments on my questions regarding Traveler for M15? George We can not control the Wind But we can adjust our Sails _____ From: George R. Iemmolo [mailto:griemmolo2@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 12:04 PM To: 'montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com' Subject: Traveler System Conversion Jerry I have purchased an M15 I was looking at modifications to improve Sailing. Coming from larger boats (last one Pearson 23 CB) I am accustomed to using a Traveler System. Looking thru the various projects on the Montgomery site I came across your contribution on the M17 system you developed. I have a couple of questions that you might be able to answer for me. 1. Should I continue to use the Main Sheet set up on the M15 (yoke at stern) or go full bore and convert to a 4 part mid boom Main Sheet directly to the new traveler? 2. I have searched the Ronstan web site for the parts you have listed but they do not come up. I suspect that there has been a change in the numbering system since you published the information. Do you have any recommendations as to how I can find the parts you recommend since there was no physical description of the parts? 3. I did a quick total on the costs of parts that I think might be right and they are approx $300 less line in today's boat $. Of course I have not visited a marine consignment shop to see what I can get to help keep the $ down. I see that the Harkin Small Boat Windward Sheeting Car is $319 I believe all I would have to add is Track @ about $80. So @ $400 do you think it worth the extra $100 for the Windward system? 1998 M15 NoNameYet Valpariaso Indiana George We can not control the Wind But we can adjust our Sails
Well, I have my own preferences on the mainsheet- assuming I'm the skipper and I like to sit just ahead of the end of the tiller, and I like to have the mainsheet convenient to that position, which to me is on the cockpit sole just ahead of my feet. The M-15 mainsheet works prettty well; but if I were making one for myself I'd put the mainsheet cleat right in front of my feet to avoid it getting tangled in the crew's feet. The stern rope traveller works well enough and is way cheaper than a roller bearing-type traveller. I'm not quite as uptight as Dave is about getting weight forward; in a race in a drifter I'd have the crew stand in the companionway and move myself forward to about the center of the cockpit, assuming I had a tiller extension. Otherwise I'd not worry about it. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "George R. Iemmolo" <griemmolo2@gmail.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 7:58 AM Subject: M_Boats: FW: Traveler System Conversion
Jerry
Was wondering if you had nay comments on my questions regarding Traveler for M15?
George
We can not control the Wind
But we can adjust our Sails
_____
From: George R. Iemmolo [mailto:griemmolo2@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 12:04 PM To: 'montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com' Subject: Traveler System Conversion
Jerry
I have purchased an M15 I was looking at modifications to improve Sailing. Coming from larger boats (last one Pearson 23 CB) I am accustomed to using a Traveler System. Looking thru the various projects on the Montgomery site I came across your contribution on the M17 system you developed.
I have a couple of questions that you might be able to answer for me.
1. Should I continue to use the Main Sheet set up on the M15 (yoke at stern) or go full bore and convert to a 4 part mid boom Main Sheet directly to the new traveler?
2. I have searched the Ronstan web site for the parts you have listed but they do not come up. I suspect that there has been a change in the numbering system since you published the information. Do you have any recommendations as to how I can find the parts you recommend since there was no physical description of the parts?
3. I did a quick total on the costs of parts that I think might be right and they are approx $300 less line in today's boat $. Of course I have not visited a marine consignment shop to see what I can get to help keep the $ down. I see that the Harkin Small Boat Windward Sheeting Car is $319 I believe all I would have to add is Track @ about $80. So @ $400 do you think it worth the extra $100 for the Windward system?
1998 M15 NoNameYet
Valpariaso Indiana
George
We can not control the Wind
But we can adjust our Sails
-- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. SPAMfighter has removed 7611 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len Do you have a slow PC? Try a Free scan http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen
Jerry I get from your comment that the present stern rope traveler on the M15 works good enough that the incremental improvement of a roller bearing car/track system is not worth the expense. I will look at some Marine Consignment shops in my area (Southern Lake Michigan) to see what I can scrape up. I would consider a change if I could keep it to about $100 I am familiar with your preferred location of the mainsheet on the cockpit floor ahead of the tiller having sailed an Alerion 28 set up that way. Tiller extension a given for proper weight distribution in any situation. George We can not control the Wind But we can adjust our Sails -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of jerry montgomery Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 10:50 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: FW: Traveler System Conversion Well, I have my own preferences on the mainsheet- assuming I'm the skipper and I like to sit just ahead of the end of the tiller, and I like to have the mainsheet convenient to that position, which to me is on the cockpit sole just ahead of my feet. The M-15 mainsheet works prettty well; but if I were making one for myself I'd put the mainsheet cleat right in front of my feet to avoid it getting tangled in the crew's feet. The stern rope traveller works well enough and is way cheaper than a roller bearing-type traveller. I'm not quite as uptight as Dave is about getting weight forward; in a race in a drifter I'd have the crew stand in the companionway and move myself forward to about the center of the cockpit, assuming I had a tiller extension. Otherwise I'd not worry about it. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "George R. Iemmolo" <griemmolo2@gmail.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 7:58 AM Subject: M_Boats: FW: Traveler System Conversion
Assuming yhou have a vang for off-wind control, the only advantage in a rb traveller would b e in light air upwind, when you could pull the car to weather and ease off on the sheet, controlling the twist. Seems that there are a lot of opinions on the best sheeting system! jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "George R. Iemmolo" <griemmolo2@gmail.com> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 11:27 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: FW: Traveler System Conversion
Jerry
I get from your comment that the present stern rope traveler on the M15 works good enough that the incremental improvement of a roller bearing car/track system is not worth the expense. I will look at some Marine Consignment shops in my area (Southern Lake Michigan) to see what I can scrape up. I would consider a change if I could keep it to about $100
I am familiar with your preferred location of the mainsheet on the cockpit floor ahead of the tiller having sailed an Alerion 28 set up that way. Tiller extension a given for proper weight distribution in any situation.
George We can not control the Wind But we can adjust our Sails
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of jerry montgomery Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 10:50 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: FW: Traveler System Conversion
Well, I have my own preferences on the mainsheet- assuming I'm the skipper and I like to sit just ahead of the end of the tiller, and I like to have the mainsheet convenient to that position, which to me is on the cockpit sole just ahead of my feet. The M-15 mainsheet works prettty well; but if I were making one for myself I'd put the mainsheet cleat right in front of my feet to avoid it getting tangled in the crew's feet. The stern rope traveller works well enough and is way cheaper than a roller bearing-type traveller.
I'm not quite as uptight as Dave is about getting weight forward; in a race in a drifter I'd have the crew stand in the companionway and move myself forward to about the center of the cockpit, assuming I had a tiller extension. Otherwise I'd not worry about it. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "George R. Iemmolo" <griemmolo2@gmail.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 7:58 AM Subject: M_Boats: FW: Traveler System Conversion
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I messed around with a few different jury rigs to emulate a traveler on my sloop rigged M15 and it did not seem to make much of a difference in performance but then it could be the skipper. Ended up fixing the position of a block on the rope traveller and using the boom vang more often. This way the boom stays closer to the center line as you sheet in tighter. In light air I would just attache a line to the end of the boom and pull sideways to the upwind stern cleat to get the boom closer to the centerline and still retain some draft. Unfortunately this lets the jib sag when you want to depower the main by letting the boom and the main away from the center line but life is a trade off. The 4 to 1 power ratio is way over kill on the M15 but I guess it could be useful if you are concerned about fine grain triming. Thanks Doug Kelch M15G #310 On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 1:08 PM, jerry montgomery <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org
wrote:
Assuming yhou have a vang for off-wind control, the only advantage in a rb traveller would b e in light air upwind, when you could pull the car to weather and ease off on the sheet, controlling the twist.
Seems that there are a lot of opinions on the best sheeting system!
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "George R. Iemmolo" < griemmolo2@gmail.com> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.** xmission.com <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: M_Boats: FW: Traveler System Conversion
Jerry
I get from your comment that the present stern rope traveler on the M15 works good enough that the incremental improvement of a roller bearing car/track system is not worth the expense. I will look at some Marine Consignment shops in my area (Southern Lake Michigan) to see what I can scrape up. I would consider a change if I could keep it to about $100
I am familiar with your preferred location of the mainsheet on the cockpit floor ahead of the tiller having sailed an Alerion 28 set up that way. Tiller extension a given for proper weight distribution in any situation.
George We can not control the Wind But we can adjust our Sails
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@**mailman.xmission.com<montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> [mailto:montgomery_boats-**bounces@mailman.xmission.com<montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com>] On Behalf Of jerry montgomery Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 10:50 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: FW: Traveler System Conversion
Well, I have my own preferences on the mainsheet- assuming I'm the skipper and I like to sit just ahead of the end of the tiller, and I like to have the mainsheet convenient to that position, which to me is on the cockpit sole just ahead of my feet. The M-15 mainsheet works prettty well; but if I were making one for myself I'd put the mainsheet cleat right in front of my feet to avoid it getting tangled in the crew's feet. The stern rope traveller works well enough and is way cheaper than a roller bearing-type traveller.
I'm not quite as uptight as Dave is about getting weight forward; in a race in a drifter I'd have the crew stand in the companionway and move myself forward to about the center of the cockpit, assuming I had a tiller extension. Otherwise I'd not worry about it. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "George R. Iemmolo" < griemmolo2@gmail.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.**xmission.com<montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 7:58 AM Subject: M_Boats: FW: Traveler System Conversion
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Then there's the trick of setting up a cleat to easily adjust the scope on the rope traveller. In heavy air you can tighten the traveller line so the boom slides off to leeward, and in a drifter you can let it out until two-blocked so the boom centers with less sheet tension. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "douglas kelch" <doug1kelch@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 3:28 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: FW: Traveler System Conversion
I messed around with a few different jury rigs to emulate a traveler on my sloop rigged M15 and it did not seem to make much of a difference in performance but then it could be the skipper. Ended up fixing the position of a block on the rope traveller and using the boom vang more often. This way the boom stays closer to the center line as you sheet in tighter. In light air I would just attache a line to the end of the boom and pull sideways to the upwind stern cleat to get the boom closer to the centerline and still retain some draft.
Unfortunately this lets the jib sag when you want to depower the main by letting the boom and the main away from the center line but life is a trade off.
The 4 to 1 power ratio is way over kill on the M15 but I guess it could be useful if you are concerned about fine grain triming.
Thanks
Doug Kelch M15G #310
On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 1:08 PM, jerry montgomery <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org
wrote:
Assuming yhou have a vang for off-wind control, the only advantage in a rb traveller would b e in light air upwind, when you could pull the car to weather and ease off on the sheet, controlling the twist.
Seems that there are a lot of opinions on the best sheeting system!
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "George R. Iemmolo" < griemmolo2@gmail.com> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.** xmission.com <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: M_Boats: FW: Traveler System Conversion
Jerry
I get from your comment that the present stern rope traveler on the M15 works good enough that the incremental improvement of a roller bearing car/track system is not worth the expense. I will look at some Marine Consignment shops in my area (Southern Lake Michigan) to see what I can scrape up. I would consider a change if I could keep it to about $100
I am familiar with your preferred location of the mainsheet on the cockpit floor ahead of the tiller having sailed an Alerion 28 set up that way. Tiller extension a given for proper weight distribution in any situation.
George We can not control the Wind But we can adjust our Sails
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@**mailman.xmission.com<montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> [mailto:montgomery_boats-**bounces@mailman.xmission.com<montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com>] On Behalf Of jerry montgomery Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 10:50 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: FW: Traveler System Conversion
Well, I have my own preferences on the mainsheet- assuming I'm the skipper and I like to sit just ahead of the end of the tiller, and I like to have the mainsheet convenient to that position, which to me is on the cockpit sole just ahead of my feet. The M-15 mainsheet works prettty well; but if I were making one for myself I'd put the mainsheet cleat right in front of my feet to avoid it getting tangled in the crew's feet. The stern rope traveller works well enough and is way cheaper than a roller bearing-type traveller.
I'm not quite as uptight as Dave is about getting weight forward; in a race in a drifter I'd have the crew stand in the companionway and move myself forward to about the center of the cockpit, assuming I had a tiller extension. Otherwise I'd not worry about it. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "George R. Iemmolo" < griemmolo2@gmail.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.**xmission.com<montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 7:58 AM Subject: M_Boats: FW: Traveler System Conversion
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participants (3)
-
douglas kelch -
George R. Iemmolo -
jerry montgomery