Re: M_Boats: Norsea for sale on eBay
I would have to agree with Dave. The sentence "This boat needs more attention than I can give it." is more than a little scary! hahaha. Coming from someone that purchased a Florida boat that spent the better part of 25 years floating in nice warm tropical salt water.....uh.....yeah.....my advice.....HIRE a marine surveyor. A lot of things can hide under a few coats of ablative bottom paint. hahaha...I wouldn't choose to walk down that path again...I don't think I have it in me.....I'm sure 'Jo doesn't! hahaha :-) Sean www.havasumontgomerys.piczo.com
I wouldn't even think about any boat without a survey. I don't care if it is a NorSea or a Bristol Channel Cutter. I got good grades on the survey when I sold my NorSea, until it got pulled out of the water and it had 200 quarter size blisters. The last time I had it hauled and bottom painted her, she looked great. 16 months later.... Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: <nebwest2@aol.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 9:57 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Norsea for sale on eBay
I would have to agree with Dave. The sentence "This boat needs more attention than I can give it." is more than a little scary! hahaha. Coming from someone that purchased a Florida boat that spent the better part of 25 years floating in nice warm tropical salt water.....uh.....yeah.....my advice.....HIRE a marine surveyor. A lot of things can hide under a few coats of ablative bottom paint. hahaha...I wouldn't choose to walk down that path again...I don't think I have it in me.....I'm sure 'Jo doesn't! hahaha :-)
Sean www.havasumontgomerys.piczo.com
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Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
Joe Murphy wrote: Re: Survey Let me add my $0.02 worth ..... I found a Bill Tripp designed NorthEast 38 in Hamburg, Germany many years ago. It was the big brother of our then Tripp-Lentsch 29, and - I wanted to up-size to the bigger-is-better larger version of our boat. A German Sailing Club in Hamburg was selling the boat - the younger generation in the Club wanted the latest: fin keels, spade rudders; high aspect ratio rig - all the then popular "goodies", and not the conventional keel with attached rudder; a low aspect rig; and a good go-anywhere boat; designed to the old CCA ocean cruising specs. I had a well-known German Surveyor look over the boat. He sent me - to the USA - a detailed description of the vessel, with lots of photos forward cabin; head; main cabin; engine access; cockpit; sail lockers "The forward compartment sleeps two; has two drawers, and two stowage areas under the berths" . The rest of his report continued in the same vein echoing a sales brochure. His report also included the statement, "it is nice that we could look at the boat in winter storage and survey the entire hull...." Based on the survey report, I bought the boat for, a then, ridiculous price: $15,000 for a North East 38 with newly overhauled Volvo diesel engine; new stainless steel fuel tank; electronics; radio, log; depth sounder; three burner stove with over; pots and pans; engine spare parts; spare shrouds; spare steering cables; Espar heating system, inflatable dinghy, etc. We picked up the boat the following June in Hamburg, and sailed it through the Danish islands for 5 weeks. Our idea as to find out what sort of problems I had bought, and to get them fixed before we then sailed the boat from Hamburg to the USA the following year. At the conclusion of our Danish trip we had the boat hauled and planned to have the hull Awlgripped. The person doing the job, called me in Connecticut, once he had the boat, and said the underwater portion of he hull was covered with gelcoat blisters. What should he do? Gelcoat blisters? The survey had made no mention of any gelcoat blisters on the hull....., and they had looked at it in a covered shed in winter storage and had had full access to the whole hull I, of course, told him, fix it, which he did. My experience was: a surveyor gets a lot of money for his survey, but the fine print of his contract says that he is not responsible for anything....... After I was informed of the gelcoat problems I ran this contract past my corporate legal counsel, and, after reading the contract, told me that there was nothing I could do, the fine print in the contract exonerated the surveyor, from anything I would discover after he had done his survey. So, as far as I'm concerned, - and I can fix almost anything on a boat; hull / rigging / electrical system / or propulsion system - I'll gladly buy a boat; sight-unseen; because if the price is right, I can fix anything that I find that needs repairs - and save myself the cost of a marine survey that is mostly meaningless (see the the fine print in his contract). You really only need a survey to fulfill insurance requirements if you are financing a boat. If you can pay cash, and have the capabilities to do the work yourself, forget surveys. They only cost money and are practically worthless (see small print in their contract for all their excuses). I've bought a number of boats, sight-unseen , and the only one that really was a problem was the one I physically inspected myself; decided I wanted it (a ComPac 16); bought it; and then found it had extensive damage from a Florida hurricane once I had it back home in Connecticut. I fixed all the fiberglass problems; refinished the whole hull; and repainted it using one part Interlux paint. So, buying a boat really boils down to how skilled and competent are you in fiberglass and mechanical repairs? If you have the tools and the know-how, then anything is doable, if he price is right.... Connie
I wouldn't even think about any boat without a survey. I don't care if it is a NorSea or a Bristol Channel Cutter. I got good grades on the survey when I sold my NorSea, until it got pulled out of the water and it had 200 quarter size blisters. The last time I had it hauled and bottom painted her, she looked great. 16 months later.... Joe
----- Original Message ----- From: <nebwest2@aol.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 9:57 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Norsea for sale on eBay
I would have to agree with Dave. The sentence "This boat needs more attention than I can give it." is more than a little scary! hahaha. Coming from someone that purchased a Florida boat that spent the better part of 25 years floating in nice warm tropical salt water.....uh.....yeah.....my advice.....HIRE a marine surveyor. A lot of things can hide under a few coats of ablative bottom paint. hahaha...I wouldn't choose to walk down that path again...I don't think I have it in me.....I'm sure 'Jo doesn't! hahaha :-)
Sean www.havasumontgomerys.piczo.com
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
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Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
Connie, Very well said. And if I had your level of skills I would feel the same way. My problem was that back when I was looking at buying a boat I recognized my limitations on what I could do and not do. Plus I have a tendency to overlook a problem if my emotions (love in my eyes) get factored into the decision making. Some times I need an objective set of eyes. I don't know anyone that comes close to having the expertise that you describe other than a good boat yard. But sometimes the dollar signs get factored into their input. So I used a surveyor even knowing in advance that they are totally unaccountable. When I bought my NorSea in Annapolis, there were more surveyors than sailors in the area. Their ability to get work was based on their reputations. The one I got was good and I learned a lot. Her survey gave me a nice prioritized list and it became my checkoff project list. Without the survey, there were things I would have never thought of to do ... and probably would have paid the piper later. Thanks for the wonderful story of your NorthEast 38. Regards, Joe M 17 Seafrog #651 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Conbert H. Benneck" <chbenneck@sbcglobal.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 8:33 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Norsea for sale on eBay
Joe Murphy wrote:
Re: Survey
Let me add my $0.02 worth .....
I found a Bill Tripp designed NorthEast 38 in Hamburg, Germany many years ago. It was the big brother of our then Tripp-Lentsch 29, and - I wanted to up-size to the bigger-is-better larger version of our boat.
A German Sailing Club in Hamburg was selling the boat - the younger generation in the Club wanted the latest: fin keels, spade rudders; high aspect ratio rig - all the then popular "goodies", and not the conventional keel with attached rudder; a low aspect rig; and a good go-anywhere boat; designed to the old CCA ocean cruising specs.
I had a well-known German Surveyor look over the boat.
He sent me - to the USA - a detailed description of the vessel, with lots of photos forward cabin; head; main cabin; engine access; cockpit; sail lockers "The forward compartment sleeps two; has two drawers, and two stowage areas under the berths" . The rest of his report continued in the same vein echoing a sales brochure.
His report also included the statement, "it is nice that we could look at the boat in winter storage and survey the entire hull...."
Based on the survey report, I bought the boat for, a then, ridiculous price: $15,000 for a North East 38 with newly overhauled Volvo diesel engine; new stainless steel fuel tank; electronics; radio, log; depth sounder; three burner stove with over; pots and pans; engine spare parts; spare shrouds; spare steering cables; Espar heating system, inflatable dinghy, etc.
We picked up the boat the following June in Hamburg, and sailed it through the Danish islands for 5 weeks. Our idea as to find out what sort of problems I had bought, and to get them fixed before we then sailed the boat from Hamburg to the USA the following year.
At the conclusion of our Danish trip we had the boat hauled and planned to have the hull Awlgripped. The person doing the job, called me in Connecticut, once he had the boat, and said the underwater portion of he hull was covered with gelcoat blisters. What should he do? Gelcoat blisters? The survey had made no mention of any gelcoat blisters on the hull....., and they had looked at it in a covered shed in winter storage and had had full access to the whole hull
I, of course, told him, fix it, which he did.
My experience was: a surveyor gets a lot of money for his survey, but the fine print of his contract says that he is not responsible for anything....... After I was informed of the gelcoat problems I ran this contract past my corporate legal counsel, and, after reading the contract, told me that there was nothing I could do, the fine print in the contract exonerated the surveyor, from anything I would discover after he had done his survey.
So, as far as I'm concerned, - and I can fix almost anything on a boat; hull / rigging / electrical system / or propulsion system - I'll gladly buy a boat; sight-unseen; because if the price is right, I can fix anything that I find that needs repairs - and save myself the cost of a marine survey that is mostly meaningless (see the the fine print in his contract).
You really only need a survey to fulfill insurance requirements if you are financing a boat. If you can pay cash, and have the capabilities to do the work yourself, forget surveys. They only cost money and are practically worthless (see small print in their contract for all their excuses).
I've bought a number of boats, sight-unseen , and the only one that really was a problem was the one I physically inspected myself; decided I wanted it (a ComPac 16); bought it; and then found it had extensive damage from a Florida hurricane once I had it back home in Connecticut. I fixed all the fiberglass problems; refinished the whole hull; and repainted it using one part Interlux paint.
So, buying a boat really boils down to how skilled and competent are you in fiberglass and mechanical repairs? If you have the tools and the know-how, then anything is doable, if he price is right....
Connie
I wouldn't even think about any boat without a survey. I don't care if it is a NorSea or a Bristol Channel Cutter. I got good grades on the survey when I sold my NorSea, until it got pulled out of the water and it had 200 quarter size blisters. The last time I had it hauled and bottom painted her, she looked great. 16 months later.... Joe
----- Original Message ----- From: <nebwest2@aol.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 9:57 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Norsea for sale on eBay
I would have to agree with Dave. The sentence "This boat needs more attention than I can give it." is more than a little scary! hahaha. Coming from someone that purchased a Florida boat that spent the better part of 25 years floating in nice warm tropical salt water.....uh.....yeah.....my advice.....HIRE a marine surveyor. A lot of things can hide under a few coats of ablative bottom paint. hahaha...I wouldn't choose to walk down that path again...I don't think I have it in me.....I'm sure 'Jo doesn't! hahaha :-)
Sean www.havasumontgomerys.piczo.com
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
participants (3)
-
Conbert H. Benneck -
Joe Murphy -
nebwest2＠aol.com