can someone tell me how much wind it takes to move a Monty 15 . Where I sail there is always a tide , so I can't tell what is making me move , the wind or the tide . But Im wondering how much wind does it take Thanks KLaas
She'll move with the tiniest puff. Pretty amazing really. Daniel Rich M15 #208 "Kestrel" danielgrich@gmail.com On Jun 25, 2012, at 8:49 PM, Klaas wrote:
can someone tell me how much wind it takes to move a Monty 15 . Where I sail there is always a tide , so I can't tell what is making me move , the wind or the tide . But Im wondering how much wind does it take Thanks KLaas
Part of being able to move depends on the sea state too. On Lake Erie on a summer afternoon with very little wind, the lake is often very choppy from a continuous line of powerboats zooming around every which way, and the boat will flop around flogging her sails to death, killing all speed. On the other hand, if the water matches the wind, if you can feel even the slightest breeze, the boat will move. There may not even be enough wind to give the sail shape, so you have to heel the boat a bit to let gravity help shape the sail (if you have conventional battens, anyway). Not everyone has the patience for such light air though; I personally love it, ghosting along silently. Tod
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Rich Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 11:55 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind
She'll move with the tiniest puff. Pretty amazing really.
Daniel Rich M15 #208 "Kestrel" danielgrich@gmail.com
On Jun 25, 2012, at 8:49 PM, Klaas wrote:
can someone tell me how much wind it takes to move a Monty 15 . Where I sail there is always a tide , so I can't tell what is making me move , the wind or the tide . But Im wondering how much wind does it take Thanks KLaas
Oh, also, don't look at the shore, look at the water next to the boat. If you are moving relative to the water, you are sailing. If you see the same little bit of weed or something in the water and you have time to study it in depth, you aren't sailing, you are bobbing. I have been caught sailing but still unable to sail faster than the tide.... :o) Tod
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Rich Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 11:55 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind
She'll move with the tiniest puff. Pretty amazing really.
Daniel Rich M15 #208 "Kestrel" danielgrich@gmail.com
On Jun 25, 2012, at 8:49 PM, Klaas wrote:
can someone tell me how much wind it takes to move a Monty 15 . Where I sail there is always a tide , so I can't tell what is making me move , the wind or the tide . But Im wondering how much wind does it take Thanks KLaas
i sailed my M15 when there were no cat's paws on the water ... loved doing this as i would sail right by boats two, three, four times longer. in these wind conditions the M15 will out-sail the M17 and M23. if you can steer the M15 you are moving. she will have helm control (yes, rather slow to respond) even is she is 'barely moving'. i admit that this is a bit disgusting ... if i'm not sure the boat is moving i will spit over the side. i can then see if the boat is moving in relation to the spit. this is better than moving the tiller needlessly (as noted above) ... as tiller movement slows the boat. i recommend two things when sailing in light winds on the M15 - * SIT FORWARD. be sitting at the bulkhead that separates the cabin and cockpit. if you sit aft you drag the transom and slow/stop the boat. if you don't have a tiller extension get one. (FYI, this is how you should be sitting on the M15 when sailing regardless of the wind speed). * sit on the leeward side. the M15 sails best heeling at 5-10 degrees. this is especially true in light winds. the M15 is not at her best when sailing 'flat' ... even when the wind is 'up'. :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com --- On Mon, 6/25/12, Klaas <santaklaas@telus.net> wrote:
can someone tell me how much wind it takes to move a Monty 15 . Where I sail there is always a tide , so I can't tell what is making me move , the wind or the tide . But Im wondering how much wind does it take Thanks KLaas
Dave, My first little boat was a Potter 14, which sails best flat. I assumed an M17 likes to be flat too, but I never checked. What you think? Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla On Jun 26, 2012, at 8:17 AM, W David Scobie wrote:
i sailed my M15 when there were no cat's paws on the water ... loved doing this as i would sail right by boats two, three, four times longer. in these wind conditions the M15 will out-sail the M17 and M23.
if you can steer the M15 you are moving. she will have helm control (yes, rather slow to respond) even is she is 'barely moving'.
i admit that this is a bit disgusting ... if i'm not sure the boat is moving i will spit over the side. i can then see if the boat is moving in relation to the spit. this is better than moving the tiller needlessly (as noted above) ... as tiller movement slows the boat.
i recommend two things when sailing in light winds on the M15 -
* SIT FORWARD. be sitting at the bulkhead that separates the cabin and cockpit. if you sit aft you drag the transom and slow/stop the boat. if you don't have a tiller extension get one. (FYI, this is how you should be sitting on the M15 when sailing regardless of the wind speed).
* sit on the leeward side. the M15 sails best heeling at 5-10 degrees. this is especially true in light winds. the M15 is not at her best when sailing 'flat' ... even when the wind is 'up'.
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Mon, 6/25/12, Klaas <santaklaas@telus.net> wrote:
can someone tell me how much wind it takes to move a Monty 15 . Where I sail there is always a tide , so I can't tell what is making me move , the wind or the tide . But Im wondering how much wind does it take Thanks KLaas
the M17 likes to be a bit more flat than the M15. i find SWEET PEA sails better with some heal ... more than a P15 or P19. the M15 will 'wobble' port to starboard some, from about 10 degrees one side to 10 degrees other side (ie, 20 deg. arc) if you try to keep her flat as her hull shape 'wants' her to heel. much more 'stable' if you have her leaning to one side. hull shapes, when looking closely, are very different on the M17 and M15, especially the hull shape port and starboard of the keel, and aft of the keel. :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com --- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Dave, My first little boat was a Potter 14, which sails best flat. I assumed an M17 likes to be flat too, but I never checked. What you think? Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
Dave, Your "wobble" is a "yaw", methinks. Been waiting years to use that word. On Jun 26, 2012, at 11:19 AM, W David Scobie wrote:
the M17 likes to be a bit more flat than the M15. i find SWEET PEA sails better with some heal ... more than a P15 or P19.
the M15 will 'wobble' port to starboard some, from about 10 degrees one side to 10 degrees other side (ie, 20 deg. arc) if you try to keep her flat as her hull shape 'wants' her to heel. much more 'stable' if you have her leaning to one side.
hull shapes, when looking closely, are very different on the M17 and M15, especially the hull shape port and starboard of the keel, and aft of the keel.
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Dave, My first little boat was a Potter 14, which sails best flat. I assumed an M17 likes to be flat too, but I never checked. What you think? Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
Tom: more roll than yaw. the M15 wants to stay on her course (not yaw) just roll ... wobble ;-) ... from port to starboard if you don't have her heeling. M17 isn't doesn't do this as much as the M15. :: Dave Scobie --- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Dave, Your "wobble" is a "yaw", methinks. Been waiting years to use that word.
On Jun 26, 2012, at 11:19 AM, W David Scobie wrote:
the M17 likes to be a bit more flat than the M15. i find SWEET PEA sails better with some heal ... more than a P15 or P19.
the M15 will 'wobble' port to starboard some, from about 10 degrees one side to 10 degrees other side (ie, 20 deg. arc) if you try to keep her flat as her hull shape 'wants' her to heel. much more 'stable' if you have her leaning to one side.
hull shapes, when looking closely, are very different on the M17 and M15, especially the hull shape port and starboard of the keel, and aft of the keel.
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Dave, My first little boat was a Potter 14, which sails
best
flat. I assumed an M17 likes to be flat too, but I never checked. What you think? Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
In the world of paddlecraft (canoe and kayak) we'd call that the difference between 'primary stability' and 'secondary stability' - sounds like the M15 has 'loose' primary stability (wobbles when flat) and distinct secondary stability (sits securely 'on edge' or with a bit of heel). The M17 sounds like it has slightly more primary stability. Terminology...go figure! cheers, John S. On 06/26/2012 11:48 AM, W David Scobie wrote:
Tom:
more roll than yaw. the M15 wants to stay on her course (not yaw) just roll ... wobble ;-) ... from port to starboard if you don't have her heeling.
M17 isn't doesn't do this as much as the M15.
:: Dave Scobie
--- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Dave, Your "wobble" is a "yaw", methinks. Been waiting years to use that word.
On Jun 26, 2012, at 11:19 AM, W David Scobie wrote:
the M17 likes to be a bit more flat than the M15. i find SWEET PEA sails better with some heal ... more than a P15 or P19.
the M15 will 'wobble' port to starboard some, from about 10 degrees one side to 10 degrees other side (ie, 20 deg. arc) if you try to keep her flat as her hull shape 'wants' her to heel. much more 'stable' if you have her leaning to one side.
hull shapes, when looking closely, are very different on the M17 and M15, especially the hull shape port and starboard of the keel, and aft of the keel.
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Dave, My first little boat was a Potter 14, which sails
best
flat. I assumed an M17 likes to be flat too, but I never checked. What you think? Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net http://eco-living.net
John- what do you paddle, out of curiousity? jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Schinnerer" <john@eco-living.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 11:57 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much heel on M17
In the world of paddlecraft (canoe and kayak) we'd call that the difference between 'primary stability' and 'secondary stability' - sounds like the M15 has 'loose' primary stability (wobbles when flat) and distinct secondary stability (sits securely 'on edge' or with a bit of heel). The M17 sounds like it has slightly more primary stability.
Terminology...go figure!
cheers, John S.
On 06/26/2012 11:48 AM, W David Scobie wrote:
Tom:
more roll than yaw. the M15 wants to stay on her course (not yaw) just roll ... wobble ;-) ... from port to starboard if you don't have her heeling.
M17 isn't doesn't do this as much as the M15.
:: Dave Scobie
--- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Dave, Your "wobble" is a "yaw", methinks. Been waiting years to use that word.
On Jun 26, 2012, at 11:19 AM, W David Scobie wrote:
the M17 likes to be a bit more flat than the M15. i find SWEET PEA sails better with some heal ... more than a P15 or P19.
the M15 will 'wobble' port to starboard some, from about 10 degrees one side to 10 degrees other side (ie, 20 deg. arc) if you try to keep her flat as her hull shape 'wants' her to heel. much more 'stable' if you have her leaning to one side.
hull shapes, when looking closely, are very different on the M17 and M15, especially the hull shape port and starboard of the keel, and aft of the keel.
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Dave, My first little boat was a Potter 14, which sails
best
flat. I assumed an M17 likes to be flat too, but I never checked. What you think? Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net http://eco-living.net
-- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. SPAMfighter has removed 6728 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len Do you have a slow PC? Try Free scan http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen
Dave, Got it; not 10 degrees veering of the bow from the average direction of travel. That would be poor tracking. I have not sailed an M15, but as John S. suggests, the M17 is not very "tippy" for its weight. Hey, the aspens are trembling outside my window; time to go sailing instead of sitting in front of the computer. Tom On Jun 26, 2012, at 11:48 AM, W David Scobie wrote:
Tom:
more roll than yaw. the M15 wants to stay on her course (not yaw) just roll ... wobble ;-) ... from port to starboard if you don't have her heeling.
M17 isn't doesn't do this as much as the M15.
:: Dave Scobie
--- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Dave, Your "wobble" is a "yaw", methinks. Been waiting years to use that word.
On Jun 26, 2012, at 11:19 AM, W David Scobie wrote:
the M17 likes to be a bit more flat than the M15. i find SWEET PEA sails better with some heal ... more than a P15 or P19.
the M15 will 'wobble' port to starboard some, from about 10 degrees one side to 10 degrees other side (ie, 20 deg. arc) if you try to keep her flat as her hull shape 'wants' her to heel. much more 'stable' if you have her leaning to one side.
hull shapes, when looking closely, are very different on the M17 and M15, especially the hull shape port and starboard of the keel, and aft of the keel.
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Dave, My first little boat was a Potter 14, which sails
best
flat. I assumed an M17 likes to be flat too, but I never checked. What you think? Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
going sailing on your boat is best idea shared by any of us today!!! :-) :: Dave Scobie --- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Dave, Got it; not 10 degrees veering of the bow from the average direction of travel. That would be poor tracking. I have not sailed an M15, but as John S. suggests, the M17 is not very "tippy" for its weight. Hey, the aspens are trembling outside my window; time to go sailing instead of sitting in front of the computer. Tom
On 26-Jun-12 11:17 AM, W David Scobie wrote: Some rip-stop nylon tell-tales on the shrouds will show you the smallest amounts of breeze. I also had a small long very light-weight pennant at the masthead. If it half-way moved you had a bit of wind. Sitting as far forward as you can go is imperative, otherwise, as David says, you are dragging the transom through the water and adding a lot of drag. Also sit on the lee side to help the boom stay where it should be. Them's the tricks to light weather sailing: also make no sudden movements of the rudder; that only adds drag. Make small, very deliberate movements of the tiller/rudder... In very light air, an M15 is like a weasel among the chickens. It scoots! The fat chickens wonder where you found the wind. Connie
i sailed my M15 when there were no cat's paws on the water ... loved doing this as i would sail right by boats two, three, four times longer. in these wind conditions the M15 will out-sail the M17 and M23.
if you can steer the M15 you are moving. she will have helm control (yes, rather slow to respond) even is she is 'barely moving'.
i admit that this is a bit disgusting ... if i'm not sure the boat is moving i will spit over the side. i can then see if the boat is moving in relation to the spit. this is better than moving the tiller needlessly (as noted above) ... as tiller movement slows the boat.
i recommend two things when sailing in light winds on the M15 -
* SIT FORWARD. be sitting at the bulkhead that separates the cabin and cockpit. if you sit aft you drag the transom and slow/stop the boat. if you don't have a tiller extension get one. (FYI, this is how you should be sitting on the M15 when sailing regardless of the wind speed).
* sit on the leeward side. the M15 sails best heeling at 5-10 degrees. this is especially true in light winds. the M15 is not at her best when sailing 'flat' ... even when the wind is 'up'.
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Mon, 6/25/12, Klaas <santaklaas@telus.net> wrote:
can someone tell me how much wind it takes to move a Monty 15 . Where I sail there is always a tide , so I can't tell what is making me move , the wind or the tide . But Im wondering how much wind does it take Thanks KLaas
Klass, If there is no wind and a 1 kt current you will have 1 kt of apparent wind which you can use to sail with. This will get you into the eddies in the shallows where you will loose the apparent wind. Of course you will drift down with the current while doing this. If you are ghosting along in very light winds and the wind dies, you may think the wind has shifted to a header. You can follow the header around to the opposite direction but it is all false. The "header" is coming from the coasting movement of the boat thru the water creating apparent wind. Sailing well in light winds is far more of an art form than sailing in heavy winds. But the heavy winds are more fun :-) Thanks Doug Kelch ________________________________ From: Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@sbcglobal.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 10:26 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind On 26-Jun-12 11:17 AM, W David Scobie wrote: Some rip-stop nylon tell-tales on the shrouds will show you the smallest amounts of breeze. I also had a small long very light-weight pennant at the masthead. If it half-way moved you had a bit of wind. Sitting as far forward as you can go is imperative, otherwise, as David says, you are dragging the transom through the water and adding a lot of drag. Also sit on the lee side to help the boom stay where it should be. Them's the tricks to light weather sailing: also make no sudden movements of the rudder; that only adds drag. Make small, very deliberate movements of the tiller/rudder... In very light air, an M15 is like a weasel among the chickens. It scoots! The fat chickens wonder where you found the wind. Connie
i sailed my M15 when there were no cat's paws on the water ... loved doing this as i would sail right by boats two, three, four times longer. in these wind conditions the M15 will out-sail the M17 and M23.
if you can steer the M15 you are moving. she will have helm control (yes, rather slow to respond) even is she is 'barely moving'.
i admit that this is a bit disgusting ... if i'm not sure the boat is moving i will spit over the side. i can then see if the boat is moving in relation to the spit. this is better than moving the tiller needlessly (as noted above) ... as tiller movement slows the boat.
i recommend two things when sailing in light winds on the M15 -
* SIT FORWARD. be sitting at the bulkhead that separates the cabin and cockpit. if you sit aft you drag the transom and slow/stop the boat. if you don't have a tiller extension get one. (FYI, this is how you should be sitting on the M15 when sailing regardless of the wind speed).
* sit on the leeward side. the M15 sails best heeling at 5-10 degrees. this is especially true in light winds. the M15 is not at her best when sailing 'flat' ... even when the wind is 'up'.
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Mon, 6/25/12, Klaas <santaklaas@telus.net> wrote:
can someone tell me how much wind it takes to move a Monty 15 . Where I sail there is always a tide , so I can't tell what is making me move , the wind or the tide . But Im wondering how much wind does it take Thanks KLaas
Since I have EXTRA weight forward (5 G. water = 80#s, Tool Box = 30#s) do I need to sit that far forward? At anchor/or dock, the transom is almost out of the water. I sit about 1/2 way forward. -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Conbert Benneck Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 1:26 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind On 26-Jun-12 11:17 AM, W David Scobie wrote: Some rip-stop nylon tell-tales on the shrouds will show you the smallest amounts of breeze. I also had a small long very light-weight pennant at the masthead. If it half-way moved you had a bit of wind. Sitting as far forward as you can go is imperative, otherwise, as David says, you are dragging the transom through the water and adding a lot of drag. Also sit on the lee side to help the boom stay where it should be. Them's the tricks to light weather sailing: also make no sudden movements of the rudder; that only adds drag. Make small, very deliberate movements of the tiller/rudder... In very light air, an M15 is like a weasel among the chickens. It scoots! The fat chickens wonder where you found the wind. Connie
i sailed my M15 when there were no cat's paws on the water ... loved doing this as i would sail right by boats two, three, four times longer. in these wind conditions the M15 will out-sail the M17 and M23.
if you can steer the M15 you are moving. she will have helm control (yes, rather slow to respond) even is she is 'barely moving'.
i admit that this is a bit disgusting ... if i'm not sure the boat is moving i will spit over the side. i can then see if the boat is moving in relation to the spit. this is better than moving the tiller needlessly (as noted above) ... as tiller movement slows the boat.
i recommend two things when sailing in light winds on the M15 -
* SIT FORWARD. be sitting at the bulkhead that separates the cabin and cockpit. if you sit aft you drag the transom and slow/stop the boat. if you don't have a tiller extension get one. (FYI, this is how you should be sitting on the M15 when sailing regardless of the wind speed).
* sit on the leeward side. the M15 sails best heeling at 5-10 degrees. this is especially true in light winds. the M15 is not at her best when sailing 'flat' ... even when the wind is 'up'.
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Mon, 6/25/12, Klaas <santaklaas@telus.net> wrote:
can someone tell me how much wind it takes to move a Monty 15 . Where I sail there is always a tide , so I can't tell what is making me move , the wind or the tide . But Im wondering how much wind does it take Thanks KLaas
have the M15 'just' a bit bow down before you get on the boat. the transom almost out is a great measure. if possible have a friend look at the boat with you sitting to assure that she is on her lines when you are in the cockpit in your favorite place. the 'sweet spot' depends on your weight ... i'm 220# so it is almost better if i'm sailing the M15 from the cabin ;-) my M15 had a group 24 battery under the v-berth so this really helped balance the boat. just adding weight is the best as you just make the boat sit lower even if she is sitting 'flat'. all this is just 'go fast' stuff. the most important thing is to go out and have fun. :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com --- On Tue, 6/26/12, August Trometer <atrometer@gmail.com> wrote:
Since I have EXTRA weight forward (5 G. water = 80#s, Tool Box = 30#s) do I need to sit that far forward? At anchor/or dock, the transom is almost out of the water. I sit about 1/2 way forward.
Good to know, TYVM. I forgot to mention the 30#s of anchor chain where the battery was in the bow. Thanks again! -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of W David Scobie Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 2:12 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much weight forward on M15 have the M15 'just' a bit bow down before you get on the boat. the transom almost out is a great measure. if possible have a friend look at the boat with you sitting to assure that she is on her lines when you are in the cockpit in your favorite place. the 'sweet spot' depends on your weight ... i'm 220# so it is almost better if i'm sailing the M15 from the cabin ;-) my M15 had a group 24 battery under the v-berth so this really helped balance the boat. just adding weight is the best as you just make the boat sit lower even if she is sitting 'flat'. all this is just 'go fast' stuff. the most important thing is to go out and have fun. :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com --- On Tue, 6/26/12, August Trometer <atrometer@gmail.com> wrote:
Since I have EXTRA weight forward (5 G. water = 80#s, Tool Box = 30#s) do I need to sit that far forward? At anchor/or dock, the transom is almost out of the water. I sit about 1/2 way forward.
just found a typo ... i should have written - just adding weight is NOT the best as you just make the boat sit lower, AND SLOWER, even if she is sitting 'flat' BOW TO STERN. sorry about any confusion. :: Dave Scobie --- On Tue, 6/26/12, August Trometer <atrometer@gmail.com> wrote:
Good to know, TYVM. I forgot to mention the 30#s of anchor chain where the battery was in the bow. Thanks again!
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of W David Scobie Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 2:12 PM
have the M15 'just' a bit bow down before you get on the boat. the transom almost out is a great measure.
if possible have a friend look at the boat with you sitting to assure that she is on her lines when you are in the cockpit in your favorite place.
the 'sweet spot' depends on your weight ... i'm 220# so it is almost better if i'm sailing the M15 from the cabin ;-)
my M15 had a group 24 battery under the v-berth so this really helped balance the boat.
just adding weight is the best as you just make the boat sit lower even if she is sitting 'flat'.
all this is just 'go fast' stuff. the most important thing is to go out and have fun.
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Tue, 6/26/12, August Trometer <atrometer@gmail.com> wrote:
Since I have EXTRA weight forward (5 G. water = 80#s, Tool Box = 30#s) do I need to sit that
far forward?
At anchor/or dock, the transom is almost out of the water. I sit about 1/2 way forward.
Damn, I thought I had invented the "Spit Log". So much for my patent hopes... On Jun 26, 2012, at 8:17 AM, W David Scobie wrote:
i sailed my M15 when there were no cat's paws on the water ... loved doing this as i would sail right by boats two, three, four times longer. in these wind conditions the M15 will out-sail the M17 and M23.
if you can steer the M15 you are moving. she will have helm control (yes, rather slow to respond) even is she is 'barely moving'.
i admit that this is a bit disgusting ... if i'm not sure the boat is moving i will spit over the side. i can then see if the boat is moving in relation to the spit. this is better than moving the tiller needlessly (as noted above) ... as tiller movement slows the boat.
i recommend two things when sailing in light winds on the M15 -
* SIT FORWARD. be sitting at the bulkhead that separates the cabin and cockpit. if you sit aft you drag the transom and slow/stop the boat. if you don't have a tiller extension get one. (FYI, this is how you should be sitting on the M15 when sailing regardless of the wind speed).
* sit on the leeward side. the M15 sails best heeling at 5-10 degrees. this is especially true in light winds. the M15 is not at her best when sailing 'flat' ... even when the wind is 'up'.
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Mon, 6/25/12, Klaas <santaklaas@telus.net> wrote:
can someone tell me how much wind it takes to move a Monty 15 . Where I sail there is always a tide , so I can't tell what is making me move , the wind or the tide . But Im wondering how much wind does it take Thanks KLaas
I've used your spit log for years - with pumpkin seed hulls. Off to Tawas Bay (Lake Huron) for a *"Wrinkles"* sail tomorrow. Jeff Johnston On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 4:01 PM, James Poulakis <picfo@comcast.net> wrote:
Damn, I thought I had invented the "Spit Log". So much for my patent hopes...
On Jun 26, 2012, at 8:17 AM, W David Scobie wrote:
i sailed my M15 when there were no cat's paws on the water ... loved doing this as i would sail right by boats two, three, four times longer. in these wind conditions the M15 will out-sail the M17 and M23.
if you can steer the M15 you are moving. she will have helm control (yes, rather slow to respond) even is she is 'barely moving'.
i admit that this is a bit disgusting ... if i'm not sure the boat is moving i will spit over the side. i can then see if the boat is moving in relation to the spit. this is better than moving the tiller needlessly (as noted above) ... as tiller movement slows the boat.
i recommend two things when sailing in light winds on the M15 -
* SIT FORWARD. be sitting at the bulkhead that separates the cabin and cockpit. if you sit aft you drag the transom and slow/stop the boat. if you don't have a tiller extension get one. (FYI, this is how you should be sitting on the M15 when sailing regardless of the wind speed).
* sit on the leeward side. the M15 sails best heeling at 5-10 degrees. this is especially true in light winds. the M15 is not at her best when sailing 'flat' ... even when the wind is 'up'.
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Mon, 6/25/12, Klaas <santaklaas@telus.net> wrote:
can someone tell me how much wind it takes to move a Monty 15 . Where I sail there is always a tide , so I can't tell what is making me move , the wind or the tide . But Im wondering how much wind does it take Thanks KLaas
-- *Jeff+* Molōn labe!
I've always used a P log! jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Johnston" <frjeff@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 2:15 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind I've used your spit log for years - with pumpkin seed hulls. Off to Tawas Bay (Lake Huron) for a *"Wrinkles"* sail tomorrow. Jeff Johnston On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 4:01 PM, James Poulakis <picfo@comcast.net> wrote:
Damn, I thought I had invented the "Spit Log". So much for my patent hopes...
On Jun 26, 2012, at 8:17 AM, W David Scobie wrote:
i sailed my M15 when there were no cat's paws on the water ... loved doing this as i would sail right by boats two, three, four times longer. in these wind conditions the M15 will out-sail the M17 and M23.
if you can steer the M15 you are moving. she will have helm control (yes, rather slow to respond) even is she is 'barely moving'.
i admit that this is a bit disgusting ... if i'm not sure the boat is moving i will spit over the side. i can then see if the boat is moving in relation to the spit. this is better than moving the tiller needlessly (as noted above) ... as tiller movement slows the boat.
i recommend two things when sailing in light winds on the M15 -
* SIT FORWARD. be sitting at the bulkhead that separates the cabin and cockpit. if you sit aft you drag the transom and slow/stop the boat. if you don't have a tiller extension get one. (FYI, this is how you should be sitting on the M15 when sailing regardless of the wind speed).
* sit on the leeward side. the M15 sails best heeling at 5-10 degrees. this is especially true in light winds. the M15 is not at her best when sailing 'flat' ... even when the wind is 'up'.
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Mon, 6/25/12, Klaas <santaklaas@telus.net> wrote:
can someone tell me how much wind it takes to move a Monty 15 . Where I sail there is always a tide , so I can't tell what is making me move , the wind or the tide . But Im wondering how much wind does it take Thanks KLaas
-- *Jeff+* Molōn labe! -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. SPAMfighter has removed 6729 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len Do you have a slow PC? Try Free scan http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen
Doesn't that measure water temperature too? On Jun 26, 2012, at 2:52 PM, jerry montgomery wrote:
I've always used a P log!
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Johnston" <frjeff@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 2:15 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind
I've used your spit log for years - with pumpkin seed hulls.
Off to Tawas Bay (Lake Huron) for a *"Wrinkles"* sail tomorrow.
Jeff Johnston
On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 4:01 PM, James Poulakis <picfo@comcast.net> wrote:
Damn, I thought I had invented the "Spit Log". So much for my patent hopes...
On Jun 26, 2012, at 8:17 AM, W David Scobie wrote:
i sailed my M15 when there were no cat's paws on the water ... loved doing this as i would sail right by boats two, three, four times longer. in these wind conditions the M15 will out-sail the M17 and M23.
if you can steer the M15 you are moving. she will have helm control (yes, rather slow to respond) even is she is 'barely moving'.
i admit that this is a bit disgusting ... if i'm not sure the boat is moving i will spit over the side. i can then see if the boat is moving in relation to the spit. this is better than moving the tiller needlessly (as noted above) ... as tiller movement slows the boat.
i recommend two things when sailing in light winds on the M15 -
* SIT FORWARD. be sitting at the bulkhead that separates the cabin and cockpit. if you sit aft you drag the transom and slow/stop the boat. if you don't have a tiller extension get one. (FYI, this is how you should be sitting on the M15 when sailing regardless of the wind speed).
* sit on the leeward side. the M15 sails best heeling at 5-10 degrees. this is especially true in light winds. the M15 is not at her best when sailing 'flat' ... even when the wind is 'up'.
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Mon, 6/25/12, Klaas <santaklaas@telus.net> wrote:
can someone tell me how much wind it takes to move a Monty 15 . Where I sail there is always a tide , so I can't tell what is making me move , the wind or the tide . But Im wondering how much wind does it take Thanks KLaas
-- *Jeff+* Molōn labe!
-- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. SPAMfighter has removed 6729 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len
Do you have a slow PC? Try Free scan http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen
yes and depth limited to 2 feet ________________________________ From: James Poulakis <picfo@comcast.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 3:03 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind Doesn't that measure water temperature too? On Jun 26, 2012, at 2:52 PM, jerry montgomery wrote:
I've always used a P log!
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Johnston" <frjeff@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 2:15 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind
I've used your spit log for years - with pumpkin seed hulls.
Off to Tawas Bay (Lake Huron) for a *"Wrinkles"* sail tomorrow.
Jeff Johnston
On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 4:01 PM, James Poulakis <picfo@comcast.net> wrote:
Damn, I thought I had invented the "Spit Log". So much for my patent hopes...
On Jun 26, 2012, at 8:17 AM, W David Scobie wrote:
i sailed my M15 when there were no cat's paws on the water ... loved doing this as i would sail right by boats two, three, four times longer. in these wind conditions the M15 will out-sail the M17 and M23.
if you can steer the M15 you are moving. she will have helm control (yes, rather slow to respond) even is she is 'barely moving'.
i admit that this is a bit disgusting ... if i'm not sure the boat is moving i will spit over the side. i can then see if the boat is moving in relation to the spit. this is better than moving the tiller needlessly (as noted above) ... as tiller movement slows the boat.
i recommend two things when sailing in light winds on the M15 -
* SIT FORWARD. be sitting at the bulkhead that separates the cabin and cockpit. if you sit aft you drag the transom and slow/stop the boat. if you don't have a tiller extension get one. (FYI, this is how you should be sitting on the M15 when sailing regardless of the wind speed).
* sit on the leeward side. the M15 sails best heeling at 5-10 degrees. this is especially true in light winds. the M15 is not at her best when sailing 'flat' ... even when the wind is 'up'.
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Mon, 6/25/12, Klaas <santaklaas@telus.net> wrote:
can someone tell me how much wind it takes to move a Monty 15 . Where I sail there is always a tide , so I can't tell what is making me move , the wind or the tide . But Im wondering how much wind does it take Thanks KLaas
-- *Jeff+* Molōn labe!
-- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. SPAMfighter has removed 6729 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len
Do you have a slow PC? Try Free scan http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen
participants (13)
-
August Trometer -
Conbert Benneck -
Daniel Rich -
Doug Kelch -
James Poulakis -
Jeffrey Johnston -
jerry montgomery -
John Schinnerer -
Klaas -
Stan Susman -
Tod -
Tom Jenkins -
W David Scobie