All, I was out sailing this past weekend and the wind was a bit gusty and being unpredictable. I was sailing in the Baltimore Harbor and the wind shifts a lot due to the buildings crowding the waters edge. I was on a port tack when a gust of wind hit the boat and healed us over. I was having problems releasing the main sheet. Every time I pulled up on the jam cleat, the cleat adjustment angle would move up one notch. The harder I pulled up, the higher the angle moved. The boat was healed over so much that the starboard gun wale was 6 inches under water and the cockpit was filling up. By the time we were able to release the main sheet we had 6+ inches of water in the cockpit. I was certain we were going swimming. With the exception of our shoes getting wet, everything else stayed dry. I can not believe how stable and well balanced this boat is. I'm not sure at what angle we were sailing (nearly tipping over), but it is far greater then what I am comfortable with, and still the boat remained upright. When we got back to the dock and began stowing our gear, I found the starboard locker full of water. In the end I'm glad this happened on the starboard side, since the port locker was cut out by a previous owner. Which means the bilge would have been full. In the end, it's best to know the limits of the boat. Now I have a better idea of just how far I can heal over before I go swimming. Fairwinds, Skip M-15 #201 '82 Wild Guppy ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
If sea room allows, you can also regain control by steering into the wind to spill some wind off of the mainsail when the mainsheet is jammed. -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces+frederick=law-co.com@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+frederick=law-co.com@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of wcampion@aol.com Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 8:50 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: Just how Stable?? All, I was out sailing this past weekend and the wind was a bit gusty and being unpredictable. I was sailing in the Baltimore Harbor and the wind shifts a lot due to the buildings crowding the waters edge. I was on a port tack when a gust of wind hit the boat and healed us over. I was having problems releasing the main sheet. Every time I pulled up on the jam cleat, the cleat adjustment angle would move up one notch. The harder I pulled up, the higher the angle moved. The boat was healed over so much that the starboard gun wale was 6 inches under water and the cockpit was filling up. By the time we were able to release the main sheet we had 6+ inches of water in the cockpit. I was certain we were going swimming. With the exception of our shoes getting wet, everything else stayed dry. I can not believe how stable and well balanced this boat is. I'm not sure at what angle we were sailing (nearly tipping over), but it is far greater then what I am comfortable with, and still the boat remained upright. When we got back to the dock and began stowing our gear, I found the starboard locker full of water. In the end I'm glad this happened on the starboard side, since the port locker was cut out by a previous owner. Which means the bilge would have been full. In the end, it's best to know the limits of the boat. Now I have a better idea of just how far I can heal over before I go swimming. Fairwinds, Skip M-15 #201 '82 Wild Guppy ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Chip, I don't know how the main sheet is attached on the 15, but when I took delivery of Carpe Ventum ( an M-17 I no longer own)I rearranged the jam cleat located on the cockpit sole so that when I pulled up, it released. Otherwise, I would have had to push down on the line to release the sheet. I found this much easier and safer than the original configuration. -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces+n9ca=comcast.net@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+n9ca=comcast.net@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Mike Frederick Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 3:08 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: RE: M_Boats: Just how Stable?? If sea room allows, you can also regain control by steering into the wind to spill some wind off of the mainsail when the mainsheet is jammed. -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces+frederick=law-co.com@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+frederick=law-co.com@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of wcampion@aol.com Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 8:50 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: Just how Stable?? All, I was out sailing this past weekend and the wind was a bit gusty and being unpredictable. I was sailing in the Baltimore Harbor and the wind shifts a lot due to the buildings crowding the waters edge. I was on a port tack when a gust of wind hit the boat and healed us over. I was having problems releasing the main sheet. Every time I pulled up on the jam cleat, the cleat adjustment angle would move up one notch. The harder I pulled up, the higher the angle moved. The boat was healed over so much that the starboard gun wale was 6 inches under water and the cockpit was filling up. By the time we were able to release the main sheet we had 6+ inches of water in the cockpit. I was certain we were going swimming. With the exception of our shoes getting wet, everything else stayed dry. I can not believe how stable and well balanced this boat is. I'm not sure at what angle we were sailing (nearly tipping over), but it is far greater then what I am comfortable with, and still the boat remained upright. When we got back to the dock and began stowing our gear, I found the starboard locker full of water. In the end I'm glad this happened on the starboard side, since the port locker was cut out by a previous owner. Which means the bilge would have been full. In the end, it's best to know the limits of the boat. Now I have a better idea of just how far I can heal over before I go swimming. Fairwinds, Skip M-15 #201 '82 Wild Guppy ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Hmmmm..... Clarence, that's an idea. I have to pull down too so i find it easier to turn into the wind... perhaps i will look into that... how, exactly did you set that up? Did you have the traveler near the companionway hatch? Now I must go... have to learn the english translation for "Ventum" "Clarence K. Andrews" <n9ca@comcast.net> wrote: Chip, I don't know how the main sheet is attached on the 15, but when I took delivery of Carpe Ventum ( an M-17 I no longer own)I rearranged the jam cleat located on the cockpit sole so that when I pulled up, it released. Otherwise, I would have had to push down on the line to release the sheet. I found this much easier and safer than the original configuration. -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces+n9ca=comcast.net@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+n9ca=comcast.net@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Mike Frederick Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 3:08 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: RE: M_Boats: Just how Stable?? If sea room allows, you can also regain control by steering into the wind to spill some wind off of the mainsail when the mainsheet is jammed. -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces+frederick=law-co.com@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+frederick=law-co.com@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of wcampion@aol.com Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 8:50 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: Just how Stable?? All, I was out sailing this past weekend and the wind was a bit gusty and being unpredictable. I was sailing in the Baltimore Harbor and the wind shifts a lot due to the buildings crowding the waters edge. I was on a port tack when a gust of wind hit the boat and healed us over. I was having problems releasing the main sheet. Every time I pulled up on the jam cleat, the cleat adjustment angle would move up one notch. The harder I pulled up, the higher the angle moved. The boat was healed over so much that the starboard gun wale was 6 inches under water and the cockpit was filling up. By the time we were able to release the main sheet we had 6+ inches of water in the cockpit. I was certain we were going swimming. With the exception of our shoes getting wet, everything else stayed dry. I can not believe how stable and well balanced this boat is. I'm not sure at what angle we were sailing (nearly tipping over), but it is far greater then what I am comfortable with, and still the boat remained upright. When we got back to the dock and began stowing our gear, I found the starboard locker full of water. In the end I'm glad this happened on the starboard side, since the port locker was cut out by a previous owner. Which means the bilge would have been full. In the end, it's best to know the limits of the boat. Now I have a better idea of just how far I can heal over before I go swimming. Fairwinds, Skip M-15 #201 '82 Wild Guppy ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Carpe Ventum (Lat. For Seize the Wind). The traveler was located on the cockpit floor about half way between hatch and transom. I simply disassembled the cleat mechanism, located below the bottom set of pulleys, and reassembled it so that you pull up to release instead of pushing down. -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces+n9ca=comcast.net@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+n9ca=comcast.net@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Royce Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 4:32 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: RE: M_Boats: Just how Stable?? Hmmmm..... Clarence, that's an idea. I have to pull down too so i find it easier to turn into the wind... perhaps i will look into that... how, exactly did you set that up? Did you have the traveler near the companionway hatch? Now I must go... have to learn the english translation for "Ventum" "Clarence K. Andrews" <n9ca@comcast.net> wrote: Chip, I don't know how the main sheet is attached on the 15, but when I took delivery of Carpe Ventum ( an M-17 I no longer own)I rearranged the jam cleat located on the cockpit sole so that when I pulled up, it released. Otherwise, I would have had to push down on the line to release the sheet. I found this much easier and safer than the original configuration. -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces+n9ca=comcast.net@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+n9ca=comcast.net@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Mike Frederick Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 3:08 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: RE: M_Boats: Just how Stable?? If sea room allows, you can also regain control by steering into the wind to spill some wind off of the mainsail when the mainsheet is jammed. -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces+frederick=law-co.com@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+frederick=law-co.com@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of wcampion@aol.com Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 8:50 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: Just how Stable?? All, I was out sailing this past weekend and the wind was a bit gusty and being unpredictable. I was sailing in the Baltimore Harbor and the wind shifts a lot due to the buildings crowding the waters edge. I was on a port tack when a gust of wind hit the boat and healed us over. I was having problems releasing the main sheet. Every time I pulled up on the jam cleat, the cleat adjustment angle would move up one notch. The harder I pulled up, the higher the angle moved. The boat was healed over so much that the starboard gun wale was 6 inches under water and the cockpit was filling up. By the time we were able to release the main sheet we had 6+ inches of water in the cockpit. I was certain we were going swimming. With the exception of our shoes getting wet, everything else stayed dry. I can not believe how stable and well balanced this boat is. I'm not sure at what angle we were sailing (nearly tipping over), but it is far greater then what I am comfortable with, and still the boat remained upright. When we got back to the dock and began stowing our gear, I found the starboard locker full of water. In the end I'm glad this happened on the starboard side, since the port locker was cut out by a previous owner. Which means the bilge would have been full. In the end, it's best to know the limits of the boat. Now I have a better idea of just how far I can heal over before I go swimming. Fairwinds, Skip M-15 #201 '82 Wild Guppy ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
I did have that thought, although late. I was a bit paniced and all I could focus on was the mainsheet. Maybe the next time I will steer more into the wind to eliminate the crisis. -----Original Message----- From: frederick@law-co.com To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Sent: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 3:08 PM Subject: RE: M_Boats: Just how Stable?? If sea room allows, you can also regain control by steering into the wind to spill some wind off of the mainsail when the mainsheet is jammed. -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces+frederick=law-co.com@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+frederick=law-co.com@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of wcampion@aol.com Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 8:50 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: Just how Stable?? All, I was out sailing this past weekend and the wind was a bit gusty and being unpredictable. I was sailing in the Baltimore Harbor and the wind shifts a lot due to the buildings crowding the waters edge. I was on a port tack when a gust of wind hit the boat and healed us over. I was having problems releasing the main sheet. Every time I pulled up on the jam cleat, the cleat adjustment angle would move up one notch. The harder I pulled up, the higher the angle moved. The boat was healed over so much that the starboard gun wale was 6 inches under water and the cockpit was filling up. By the time we were able to release the main sheet we had 6+ inches of water in the cockpit. I was certain we were going swimming. With the exception of our shoes getting wet, everything else stayed dry. I can not believe how stable and well balanced this boat is. I'm not sure at what angle we were sailing (nearly tipping over), but it is far greater then what I am comfortable with, and still the boat remained upright. When we got back to the dock and began stowing our gear, I found the starboard locker full of water. In the end I'm glad this happened on the starboard side, since the port locker was cut out by a previous owner. Which means the bilge would have been full. In the end, it's best to know the limits of the boat. Now I have a better idea of just how far I can heal over before I go swimming. Fairwinds, Skip M-15 #201 '82 Wild Guppy ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
I would suggest you rethink the mainsheet arrangement and fix it quickly. I was across the bay from you on the Chester River on Sunday and was having a ball. I was down to a reefed main and storm jib for a few hours. Even with that the mainsheet cleat got a good work out as the gusts were very strong with severe wind shifts. I still have my mainsheet cleat on the bridge deck and it is a large harken swivel block with a cleat. It never fails to release, uses an upward motion to release and is always handy. It is in an inconvenient location for company but I love it for single handing and would not change it. At an anchorage with lots of cabin traffic, I remove the mainsheet from the cleat and re-route it back to the traveler via the loop in the bowline at the end of the boom. Whatever you do GET IT FIXED. It is highly dangerous. I have seen some other arrangements that are attached to the boom and they function poorly as you described. It does sound like Wild Guppy lived up to it's name :-) Thanks Doug Kelch M15 #310 "Seas the Day" --- wcampion@aol.com wrote:
I did have that thought, although late. I was a bit paniced and all I could focus on was the mainsheet. Maybe the next time I will steer more into the wind to eliminate the crisis.
-----Original Message----- From: frederick@law-co.com To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Sent: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 3:08 PM Subject: RE: M_Boats: Just how Stable??
If sea room allows, you can also regain control by steering into the wind to spill some wind off of the mainsail when the mainsheet is jammed.
-----Original Message----- From:
montgomery_boats-bounces+frederick=law-co.com@mailman.xmission.com
[mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+frederick=law-co.com@mailman.xmission.com]
On Behalf Of wcampion@aol.com Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 8:50 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: Just how Stable??
All,
I was out sailing this past weekend and the wind was a bit gusty and being unpredictable. I was sailing in the Baltimore Harbor and the wind shifts a lot due to the buildings crowding the waters edge. I was on a port tack when a gust of wind hit the boat and healed us over. I was having problems releasing the main sheet. Every time I pulled up on the jam cleat, the cleat adjustment angle would move up one notch. The harder I pulled up, the higher the angle moved. The boat was healed over so much that the starboard gun wale was 6 inches under water and the cockpit was filling up. By the time we were able to release the main sheet we had 6+ inches of water in the cockpit. I was certain we were going swimming. With the exception of our shoes getting wet, everything else stayed dry.
I can not believe how stable and well balanced this boat is. I'm not sure at what angle we were sailing (nearly tipping over), but it is far greater then what I am comfortable with, and still the boat remained upright.
When we got back to the dock and began stowing our gear, I found the starboard locker full of water. In the end I'm glad this happened on the starboard side, since the port locker was cut out by a previous owner. Which means the bilge would have been full.
In the end, it's best to know the limits of the boat. Now I have a better idea of just how far I can heal over before I go swimming.
Fairwinds, Skip M-15 #201 '82 Wild Guppy
________________________________________________________________________
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Not recommended, at least by me. I was doing just that, in the Chester River, of which Doug Kelch spoke. The narrow creek had flat water but gusty winds. I had been luffing by heading up, rather than releasing the mainsheet, to maximize getting to windward. This time, the wind headed in the same direction and I started scooping water. IIRC, Doug thinks the mast was parallel to the water. I scooped the cockpit nearly full. The leeward seat locker was half full, but no more than a cup full splashed into the cabin. Fortunately, the waves were nil and it drained out in the time it took to run a man-overboard drill and pick up my hat and bag of garbage. Jerry's boats do a nice job or protecting some dumb skippers. PS, Storm Petrel was born in August, 1981, and has shallow seat lockers on both sides. Bill Riker M15 - #184 Storm Petrel -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces+wriker=mindspring.com@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+wriker=mindspring.com@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Mike Frederick Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 1:08 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: RE: M_Boats: Just how Stable?? If sea room allows, you can also regain control by steering into the wind to spill some wind off of the mainsail when the mainsheet is jammed. -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces+frederick=law-co.com@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+frederick=law-co.com@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of wcampion@aol.com Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 8:50 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: Just how Stable?? All, I was out sailing this past weekend and the wind was a bit gusty and being unpredictable. I was sailing in the Baltimore Harbor and the wind shifts a lot due to the buildings crowding the waters edge. I was on a port tack when a gust of wind hit the boat and healed us over. I was having problems releasing the main sheet. Every time I pulled up on the jam cleat, the cleat adjustment angle would move up one notch. The harder I pulled up, the higher the angle moved. The boat was healed over so much that the starboard gun wale was 6 inches under water and the cockpit was filling up. By the time we were able to release the main sheet we had 6+ inches of water in the cockpit. I was certain we were going swimming. With the exception of our shoes getting wet, everything else stayed dry. I can not believe how stable and well balanced this boat is. I'm not sure at what angle we were sailing (nearly tipping over), but it is far greater then what I am comfortable with, and still the boat remained upright. When we got back to the dock and began stowing our gear, I found the starboard locker full of water. In the end I'm glad this happened on the starboard side, since the port locker was cut out by a previous owner. Which means the bilge would have been full. In the end, it's best to know the limits of the boat. Now I have a better idea of just how far I can heal over before I go swimming. Fairwinds, Skip M-15 #201 '82 Wild Guppy ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
"Doug thinks the mast was parallel to the water." I couldn't see the mast but the centerboard was completly out of the water by a few inches. Nothing is as quick as poping the the mainsheet free. Thanks Doug --- "William B. Riker" <wriker@mindspring.com> wrote:
Not recommended, at least by me.
I was doing just that, in the Chester River, of which Doug Kelch spoke. The narrow creek had flat water but gusty winds. I had been luffing by heading up, rather than releasing the mainsheet, to maximize getting to windward. This time, the wind headed in the same direction and I started scooping water. IIRC, Doug thinks the mast was parallel to the water.
I scooped the cockpit nearly full. The leeward seat locker was half full, but no more than a cup full splashed into the cabin. Fortunately, the waves were nil and it drained out in the time it took to run a man-overboard drill and pick up my hat and bag of garbage.
Jerry's boats do a nice job or protecting some dumb skippers.
PS, Storm Petrel was born in August, 1981, and has shallow seat lockers on both sides.
Bill Riker M15 - #184 Storm Petrel
-----Original Message----- From:
montgomery_boats-bounces+wriker=mindspring.com@mailman.xmission.com
[mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+wriker=mindspring.com@mailman.xmission.com]
On Behalf Of Mike Frederick Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 1:08 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: RE: M_Boats: Just how Stable??
If sea room allows, you can also regain control by steering into the wind to spill some wind off of the mainsail when the mainsheet is jammed.
-----Original Message----- From:
montgomery_boats-bounces+frederick=law-co.com@mailman.xmission.com
[mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+frederick=law-co.com@mailman.xmission.com]
On Behalf Of wcampion@aol.com Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 8:50 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: Just how Stable??
All,
I was out sailing this past weekend and the wind was a bit gusty and being unpredictable. I was sailing in the Baltimore Harbor and the wind shifts a lot due to the buildings crowding the waters edge. I was on a port tack when a gust of wind hit the boat and healed us over. I was having problems releasing the main sheet. Every time I pulled up on the jam cleat, the cleat adjustment angle would move up one notch. The harder I pulled up, the higher the angle moved. The boat was healed over so much that the starboard gun wale was 6 inches under water and the cockpit was filling up. By the time we were able to release the main sheet we had 6+ inches of water in the cockpit. I was certain we were going swimming. With the exception of our shoes getting wet, everything else stayed dry.
I can not believe how stable and well balanced this boat is. I'm not sure at what angle we were sailing (nearly tipping over), but it is far greater then what I am comfortable with, and still the boat remained upright.
When we got back to the dock and began stowing our gear, I found the starboard locker full of water. In the end I'm glad this happened on the starboard side, since the port locker was cut out by a previous owner. Which means the bilge would have been full.
In the end, it's best to know the limits of the boat. Now I have a better idea of just how far I can heal over before I go swimming.
Fairwinds, Skip M-15 #201 '82 Wild Guppy
________________________________________________________________________
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I don't mean to sound argumentative, but the original post stated that Skip could not release the mainsheet but only make it tighter, therefore I suggested that given enough sea room he could have steered into the wind to release pressure until he regained control of the mainsheet. -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces+frederick=law-co.com@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+frederick=law-co.com@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Doug Kelch Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 9:27 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: RE: M_Boats: Just how Stable?? "Doug thinks the mast was parallel to the water." I couldn't see the mast but the centerboard was completly out of the water by a few inches. Nothing is as quick as poping the the mainsheet free. Thanks Doug --- "William B. Riker" <wriker@mindspring.com> wrote:
Not recommended, at least by me.
I was doing just that, in the Chester River, of which Doug Kelch spoke. The narrow creek had flat water but gusty winds. I had been luffing by heading up, rather than releasing the mainsheet, to maximize getting to windward. This time, the wind headed in the same direction and I started scooping water. IIRC, Doug thinks the mast was parallel to the water.
I scooped the cockpit nearly full. The leeward seat locker was half full, but no more than a cup full splashed into the cabin. Fortunately, the waves were nil and it drained out in the time it took to run a man-overboard drill and pick up my hat and bag of garbage.
Jerry's boats do a nice job or protecting some dumb skippers.
PS, Storm Petrel was born in August, 1981, and has shallow seat lockers on both sides.
Bill Riker M15 - #184 Storm Petrel
-----Original Message----- From:
montgomery_boats-bounces+wriker=mindspring.com@mailman.xmission.com
[mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+wriker=mindspring.com@mailman.xmission.com]
On Behalf Of Mike Frederick Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 1:08 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: RE: M_Boats: Just how Stable??
If sea room allows, you can also regain control by steering into the wind to spill some wind off of the mainsail when the mainsheet is jammed.
-----Original Message----- From:
montgomery_boats-bounces+frederick=law-co.com@mailman.xmission.com
[mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+frederick=law-co.com@mailman.xmission.com]
On Behalf Of wcampion@aol.com Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 8:50 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: Just how Stable??
All,
I was out sailing this past weekend and the wind was a bit gusty and being unpredictable. I was sailing in the Baltimore Harbor and the wind shifts a lot due to the buildings crowding the waters edge. I was on a port tack when a gust of wind hit the boat and healed us over. I was having problems releasing the main sheet. Every time I pulled up on the jam cleat, the cleat adjustment angle would move up one notch. The harder I pulled up, the higher the angle moved. The boat was healed over so much that the starboard gun wale was 6 inches under water and the cockpit was filling up. By the time we were able to release the main sheet we had 6+ inches of water in the cockpit. I was certain we were going swimming. With the exception of our shoes getting wet, everything else stayed dry.
I can not believe how stable and well balanced this boat is. I'm not sure at what angle we were sailing (nearly tipping over), but it is far greater then what I am comfortable with, and still the boat remained upright.
When we got back to the dock and began stowing our gear, I found the starboard locker full of water. In the end I'm glad this happened on the starboard side, since the port locker was cut out by a previous owner. Which means the bilge would have been full.
In the end, it's best to know the limits of the boat. Now I have a better idea of just how far I can heal over before I go swimming.
Fairwinds, Skip M-15 #201 '82 Wild Guppy
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Mike, We fundamentally agree with you that given the situation the only alternative would have been to head up into the wind. What Bill and I have not been clear about is that the speed at witch the boat will head into the wind is to slow to prevent a near knockdown in strong gusting conditions where you do not anticipate the wind shift. If you can predict the windshift and turn up early is not a bad technique but you need to be able to read the gusts very well. One other thought on a related topic but not applicable with a stuck mainsheet is to head off the wind in the big puffs. A technique use in dinghy sailing in really strong gusty winds is to head off the wind and let the sheets out in order to keep the speed up. If you head into the wind the boat will invariably slow down which decreases the manuverability and makes the boat even more susceptible to a knockdown in the next gust. The belief here is that the boat/keel motion through the water adds to the the stability and decreases the apparent wind. Thanks Doug Kelch --- Mike Frederick <frederick@law-co.com> wrote:
I don't mean to sound argumentative, but the original post stated that Skip could not release the mainsheet but only make it tighter, therefore I suggested that given enough sea room he could have steered into the wind to release pressure until he regained control of the mainsheet.
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On Behalf Of Doug Kelch Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 9:27 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: RE: M_Boats: Just how Stable??
"Doug thinks the mast was parallel to the water."
I couldn't see the mast but the centerboard was completly out of the water by a few inches.
Nothing is as quick as poping the the mainsheet free.
Thanks
Doug
--- "William B. Riker" <wriker@mindspring.com> wrote:
Not recommended, at least by me.
I was doing just that, in the Chester River, of which Doug Kelch spoke. The narrow creek had flat water but gusty winds. I had been luffing by heading up, rather than releasing the mainsheet, to maximize getting to windward. This time, the wind headed in the same direction and I started scooping water. IIRC, Doug thinks the mast was parallel to the water.
I scooped the cockpit nearly full. The leeward seat locker was half full, but no more than a cup full splashed into the cabin. Fortunately, the waves were nil and it drained out in the time it took to run a man-overboard drill and pick up my hat and bag of garbage.
Jerry's boats do a nice job or protecting some dumb skippers.
PS, Storm Petrel was born in August, 1981, and has shallow seat lockers on both sides.
Bill Riker M15 - #184 Storm Petrel
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On Behalf Of Mike Frederick Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 1:08 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: RE: M_Boats: Just how Stable??
If sea room allows, you can also regain control by steering into the wind to spill some wind off of the mainsail when the mainsheet is jammed.
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On Behalf Of wcampion@aol.com Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 8:50 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: Just how Stable??
All,
I was out sailing this past weekend and the wind was a bit gusty and being unpredictable. I was sailing in the Baltimore Harbor and the wind shifts a lot due to the buildings crowding the waters edge.
I was on a port tack when a gust of wind hit the boat and healed us over. I was having problems releasing the main sheet. Every time I pulled up on the jam cleat, the cleat adjustment angle would move up one notch. The harder I pulled up, the higher the angle moved. The boat was healed over so much that the starboard gun wale was 6 inches under water and the cockpit was filling up. By the time we were able to release the main sheet we had 6+ inches of water in the cockpit. I was certain we were going swimming. With the exception of our shoes getting wet, everything else stayed dry.
I can not believe how stable and well balanced this boat is. I'm not sure at what angle we were sailing (nearly tipping over), but it is far greater then what I am comfortable with, and still the boat remained upright.
When we got back to the dock and began stowing our gear, I found the starboard locker full of water. In the end I'm glad this happened on the starboard side, since the port locker was cut out by a previous owner. Which means the bilge would have been full.
In the end, it's best to know the limits of the boat. Now I have a better idea of just how far I can heal over before I go swimming.
Fairwinds, Skip M-15 #201 '82 Wild Guppy
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I think what you folks have swerved into is the definition of a broach: http://www.boats.com/news-reviews/articledetail.html?lid=1320 And I agree with Doug that you can also fall off under those conditions, but again, you better let out that main, or you risk a severe broach. Once the wind on the main overpowers the rudder, you are in for a wild ride. Better still, under those type of conditions, I'd have in one if not two reefs (I've been knocked over more than 45 degrees and it was not fun.....so I'm quick to reef). Reefed down, she can handle a lot. In the lulls, you may not be doing hull speed but in the gusts you will be.....and will most likely stay dry doing it. Howard
Skip, I had a similar experience while sailing near a docked freighter in Alameda harbor. A sudden gust knocked me over and lots of green water was coming into the cockpit. I released the tiller and dove for the main sheet and she righted herself, shook off the gust, and drained the cockpit before the situation got really serious. Hell-of- a-good boat! Now I try not to get too close to structures that can be wind barriers. Bob M15 #208 CA On Apr 30, 2007, at 6:49 AM, wcampion@aol.com wrote:
All,
I was out sailing this past weekend and the wind was a bit gusty and being unpredictable. I was sailing in the Baltimore Harbor and the wind shifts a lot due to the buildings crowding the waters edge. I was on a port tack when a gust of wind hit the boat and healed us over. I was having problems releasing the main sheet. Every time I pulled up on the jam cleat, the cleat adjustment angle would move up one notch. The harder I pulled up, the higher the angle moved. The boat was healed over so much that the starboard gun wale was 6 inches under water and the cockpit was filling up. By the time we were able to release the main sheet we had 6+ inches of water in the cockpit. I was certain we were going swimming. With the exception of our shoes getting wet, everything else stayed dry.
I can not believe how stable and well balanced this boat is. I'm not sure at what angle we were sailing (nearly tipping over), but it is far greater then what I am comfortable with, and still the boat remained upright.
When we got back to the dock and began stowing our gear, I found the starboard locker full of water. In the end I'm glad this happened on the starboard side, since the port locker was cut out by a previous owner. Which means the bilge would have been full.
In the end, it's best to know the limits of the boat. Now I have a better idea of just how far I can heal over before I go swimming.
Fairwinds, Skip M-15 #201 '82 Wild Guppy
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Bob and Judy Becker bobjudy2@comcast.net
participants (9)
-
Clarence Andrews -
Clarence K. Andrews
-
Doug Kelch -
Howard Audsley -
Jeff Royce -
Mike Frederick -
Robert Becker -
wcampion＠aol.com -
William B. Riker