Hi Peter, Safety: This really has nothing to do with the size of your boat, assuming that it is a seaworthy boat like the Montgomerys are, but it has everything to do with the amount of sailing experience you have amassed over time. In other words, have you accumulated enough sea miles so that you feel comfortable being out in whatever conditions Poseidon throws at you? Let me give you my first example: an ocean going; very safe 30-footer that has been around the world several times sailed by various owners. If you give a rank sailing beginner such a boat, who has had very little sailing experience; doesn't know how to reef a sail; doesn't know what precautions to take if the weather deteriorates; can't "read" the weather, or the changing wind speed, and who hasn't a clue of what they should do next, can't navigate; doesn't know how to use a marine radio; they are a disaster looking for a place to happen. If the weather deteriorates; or the fog rolls in; or a front passes through and things get rough; they haven't a clue about what they should be doing for their own safety or for the boat's safety. The other end of the scale is the experienced seaman - Captain Bligh set adrift in an open long boat with 18 crew members in the Pacific ocean by the mutineers. Captain Bligh sailed the open long boat across the Pacific to Indonesia, and landed there safely. Sailors sailing very small boats have successfully crossed the Atlantic and a M15 sailed from San Diego to Hawaii. Sailing on inland lakes can be far more dangerous sailing than being out on the open ocean Lakes can be subject to sudden extreme gusts blowing out of a valley. One minute it's a flat calm and a minute later its batten down the hatches; the lee rail is underwater, and your boat is vastly over canvased.... Out on the ocean you may have a front coming through but you - with nautical experience - can see its coming far off in the distance and start by reefing and putting on oilskins and boots; putting in the hatch boards and closing the companionway hatch. You also are listening to NOAA weather radio; other radio traffic in the greater area gathering information so that you, as Captain, can decide what to do next. You may head for a harbor a mile or two distant; or if out on open waters you prepare the boat for rough conditions; make sure that everything is stowed properly down below; put on safety harnesses; check that all sea cocks are closed and the toilet bowl is empty; prepare some hot coffee in a Thermos bottle if your destination is several hours away. Lots of sailing experience is the big difference between what for you is reasonable and normal, or what would be sheer terror for a newbie. There is an old statement: it is better to be standing on the dock wishing you were out sailing, then to be out sailing wishing your were standing on a dock. Your lack of sailing experience keeps you on the dock. Previous sailing experience under varied weather conditions tells you it will be rough out there, but let's go..... we have a schedule we want to meet. The more you expand your sailing knowledge the better, and safer sailor you will become. Happy sailing Connie
Amen to Connie! We just had a couple pull into our little harbor. In a 30 footer (sailboat). They said they had come up from New Jersey, and had to be rescued by the Coast Guard three times on the way up. My friend, the assistant Harbor master, asked them about their experience in boating. They affirmed they were experienced... they had had kayaks..... Nothing against kayaks, but doing more learning might have helped! Burt Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 13, 2019, at 6:34 PM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Peter,
Safety:
This really has nothing to do with the size of your boat, assuming that it is a seaworthy boat like the Montgomerys are, but it has everything to do with the amount of sailing experience you have amassed over time. In other words, have you accumulated enough sea miles so that you feel comfortable being out in whatever conditions Poseidon throws at you?
Let me give you my first example: an ocean going; very safe 30-footer that has been around the world several times sailed by various owners.
If you give a rank sailing beginner such a boat, who has had very little sailing experience; doesn't know how to reef a sail; doesn't know what precautions to take if the weather deteriorates; can't "read" the weather, or the changing wind speed, and who hasn't a clue of what they should do next, can't navigate; doesn't know how to use a marine radio; they are a disaster looking for a place to happen.
If the weather deteriorates; or the fog rolls in; or a front passes through and things get rough; they haven't a clue about what they should be doing for their own safety or for the boat's safety.
The other end of the scale is the experienced seaman - Captain Bligh set adrift in an open long boat with 18 crew members in the Pacific ocean by the mutineers.
Captain Bligh sailed the open long boat across the Pacific to Indonesia, and landed there safely.
Sailors sailing very small boats have successfully crossed the Atlantic and a M15 sailed from San Diego to Hawaii.
Sailing on inland lakes can be far more dangerous sailing than being out on the open ocean
Lakes can be subject to sudden extreme gusts blowing out of a valley. One minute it's a flat calm and a minute later its batten down the hatches; the lee rail is underwater, and your boat is vastly over canvased....
Out on the ocean you may have a front coming through but you - with nautical experience - can see its coming far off in the distance and start by reefing and putting on oilskins and boots; putting in the hatch boards and closing the companionway hatch.
You also are listening to NOAA weather radio; other radio traffic in the greater area gathering information so that you, as Captain, can decide what to do next. You may head for a harbor a mile or two distant; or if out on open waters you prepare the boat for rough conditions; make sure that everything is stowed properly down below; put on safety harnesses; check that all sea cocks are closed and the toilet bowl is empty; prepare some hot coffee in a Thermos bottle if your destination is several hours away.
Lots of sailing experience is the big difference between what for you is reasonable and normal, or what would be sheer terror for a newbie.
There is an old statement: it is better to be standing on the dock wishing you were out sailing, then to be out sailing wishing your were standing on a dock.
Your lack of sailing experience keeps you on the dock.
Previous sailing experience under varied weather conditions tells you it will be rough out there, but let's go..... we have a schedule we want to meet.
The more you expand your sailing knowledge the better, and safer sailor you will become.
Happy sailing
Connie
As Connie wrote - experience and constant learning is worth more than the size of the craft. Five/six weeks ago as I departed an anchorage I saw a sailboat with its bow up against the rocks. This is Gulf Islands British Columbia so in many places the depth is 100s of feet one foot from the shore. The captain said the outboard had quit running. I asked 'you aground?' 'No but the motor doesn't work.' I said, 'the wind is blowing fair so raise the main and backwind off the shore and the run out and sail to Ganges.' (a route that was all down wind and less than 5-6nm long.) 'I don't know how to sail. Never raised the sails.' So about two weeks later, same place, this boat returns and anchors near me. It is low tide. Six hours later 11' of water has arrived and this sailboat is drifting through the anchorage. Captain isn't aboard (paddleboarding further up the bay to find out). I and another boater rescue the boat. The anchor isn't touching ground. It is on plastic Walmart line tied to 5' of light garden chain to a undersized dayhook Danforth (Danforth anchors are close to worthless on the Salish Sea - and this was one of the quick release dayhook versions!) Captain returns and I row over. Doesn't even notice boat in different location. I mentioned it was drifting and I and another person had boarded moved the boat and set the hook. Captain responds, ' I don't know why the boat drifted it was staying put when I got here.' The boat is a San Juan 24 and not one person would question this brand/make/size cruising the Salish Sea. The boat was a wreck. Besides the captain needing some sailing classes the shrouds were parting, a spreader broken and every line in deck was rotten. The boat and crew are unsafe. :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ On Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 4:48 PM Burton Lowry <burtonlowry7@gmail.com> wrote:
Amen to Connie!
We just had a couple pull into our little harbor. In a 30 footer (sailboat). They said they had come up from New Jersey, and had to be rescued by the Coast Guard three times on the way up. My friend, the assistant Harbor master, asked them about their experience in boating. They affirmed they were experienced... they had had kayaks.....
Nothing against kayaks, but doing more learning might have helped!
Burt
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 13, 2019, at 6:34 PM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Peter,
Safety:
This really has nothing to do with the size of your boat, assuming that it is a seaworthy boat like the Montgomerys are, but it has everything to do with the amount of sailing experience you have amassed over time. In other words, have you accumulated enough sea miles so that you feel comfortable being out in whatever conditions Poseidon throws at you?
Let me give you my first example: an ocean going; very safe 30-footer that has been around the world several times sailed by various owners.
If you give a rank sailing beginner such a boat, who has had very little sailing experience; doesn't know how to reef a sail; doesn't know what precautions to take if the weather deteriorates; can't "read" the weather, or the changing wind speed, and who hasn't a clue of what they should do next, can't navigate; doesn't know how to use a marine radio; they are a disaster looking for a place to happen.
If the weather deteriorates; or the fog rolls in; or a front passes through and things get rough; they haven't a clue about what they should be doing for their own safety or for the boat's safety.
The other end of the scale is the experienced seaman - Captain Bligh set adrift in an open long boat with 18 crew members in the Pacific ocean by the mutineers.
Captain Bligh sailed the open long boat across the Pacific to Indonesia, and landed there safely.
Sailors sailing very small boats have successfully crossed the Atlantic and a M15 sailed from San Diego to Hawaii.
Sailing on inland lakes can be far more dangerous sailing than being out on the open ocean
Lakes can be subject to sudden extreme gusts blowing out of a valley. One minute it's a flat calm and a minute later its batten down the hatches; the lee rail is underwater, and your boat is vastly over canvased....
Out on the ocean you may have a front coming through but you - with nautical experience - can see its coming far off in the distance and start by reefing and putting on oilskins and boots; putting in the hatch boards and closing the companionway hatch.
You also are listening to NOAA weather radio; other radio traffic in the greater area gathering information so that you, as Captain, can decide what to do next. You may head for a harbor a mile or two distant; or if out on open waters you prepare the boat for rough conditions; make sure that everything is stowed properly down below; put on safety harnesses; check that all sea cocks are closed and the toilet bowl is empty; prepare some hot coffee in a Thermos bottle if your destination is several hours away.
Lots of sailing experience is the big difference between what for you is reasonable and normal, or what would be sheer terror for a newbie.
There is an old statement: it is better to be standing on the dock wishing you were out sailing, then to be out sailing wishing your were standing on a dock.
Your lack of sailing experience keeps you on the dock.
Previous sailing experience under varied weather conditions tells you it will be rough out there, but let's go..... we have a schedule we want to meet.
The more you expand your sailing knowledge the better, and safer sailor you will become.
Happy sailing
Connie
Yup, it never ceases to amaze me the number of people who are at the helm of a boat with cleary no experience or skill set. Keith R. Martin, P.Eng On Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 5:23 PM Dave Scobie, <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
As Connie wrote - experience and constant learning is worth more than the size of the craft.
Five/six weeks ago as I departed an anchorage I saw a sailboat with its bow up against the rocks. This is Gulf Islands British Columbia so in many places the depth is 100s of feet one foot from the shore.
The captain said the outboard had quit running. I asked 'you aground?'
'No but the motor doesn't work.'
I said, 'the wind is blowing fair so raise the main and backwind off the shore and the run out and sail to Ganges.' (a route that was all down wind and less than 5-6nm long.)
'I don't know how to sail. Never raised the sails.'
So about two weeks later, same place, this boat returns and anchors near me. It is low tide. Six hours later 11' of water has arrived and this sailboat is drifting through the anchorage. Captain isn't aboard (paddleboarding further up the bay to find out). I and another boater rescue the boat. The anchor isn't touching ground. It is on plastic Walmart line tied to 5' of light garden chain to a undersized dayhook Danforth (Danforth anchors are close to worthless on the Salish Sea - and this was one of the quick release dayhook versions!) Captain returns and I row over. Doesn't even notice boat in different location. I mentioned it was drifting and I and another person had boarded moved the boat and set the hook. Captain responds, ' I don't know why the boat drifted it was staying put when I got here.'
The boat is a San Juan 24 and not one person would question this brand/make/size cruising the Salish Sea. The boat was a wreck. Besides the captain needing some sailing classes the shrouds were parting, a spreader broken and every line in deck was rotten. The boat and crew are unsafe.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 4:48 PM Burton Lowry <burtonlowry7@gmail.com> wrote:
Amen to Connie!
We just had a couple pull into our little harbor. In a 30 footer (sailboat). They said they had come up from New Jersey, and had to be rescued by the Coast Guard three times on the way up. My friend, the assistant Harbor master, asked them about their experience in boating. They affirmed they were experienced... they had had kayaks.....
Nothing against kayaks, but doing more learning might have helped!
Burt
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 13, 2019, at 6:34 PM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Peter,
Safety:
This really has nothing to do with the size of your boat, assuming that it is a seaworthy boat like the Montgomerys are, but it has everything to do with the amount of sailing experience you have amassed over time. In other words, have you accumulated enough sea miles so that you feel comfortable being out in whatever conditions Poseidon throws at you?
Let me give you my first example: an ocean going; very safe 30-footer that has been around the world several times sailed by various owners.
If you give a rank sailing beginner such a boat, who has had very little sailing experience; doesn't know how to reef a sail; doesn't know what precautions to take if the weather deteriorates; can't "read" the weather, or the changing wind speed, and who hasn't a clue of what they should do next, can't navigate; doesn't know how to use a marine radio; they are a disaster looking for a place to happen.
If the weather deteriorates; or the fog rolls in; or a front passes through and things get rough; they haven't a clue about what they should be doing for their own safety or for the boat's safety.
The other end of the scale is the experienced seaman - Captain Bligh set adrift in an open long boat with 18 crew members in the Pacific ocean by the mutineers.
Captain Bligh sailed the open long boat across the Pacific to Indonesia, and landed there safely.
Sailors sailing very small boats have successfully crossed the Atlantic and a M15 sailed from San Diego to Hawaii.
Sailing on inland lakes can be far more dangerous sailing than being out on the open ocean
Lakes can be subject to sudden extreme gusts blowing out of a valley. One minute it's a flat calm and a minute later its batten down the hatches; the lee rail is underwater, and your boat is vastly over canvased....
Out on the ocean you may have a front coming through but you - with nautical experience - can see its coming far off in the distance and start by reefing and putting on oilskins and boots; putting in the hatch boards and closing the companionway hatch.
You also are listening to NOAA weather radio; other radio traffic in the greater area gathering information so that you, as Captain, can decide what to do next. You may head for a harbor a mile or two distant; or if out on open waters you prepare the boat for rough conditions; make sure that everything is stowed properly down below; put on safety harnesses; check that all sea cocks are closed and the toilet bowl is empty; prepare some hot coffee in a Thermos bottle if your destination is several hours away.
Lots of sailing experience is the big difference between what for you is reasonable and normal, or what would be sheer terror for a newbie.
There is an old statement: it is better to be standing on the dock wishing you were out sailing, then to be out sailing wishing your were standing on a dock.
Your lack of sailing experience keeps you on the dock.
Previous sailing experience under varied weather conditions tells you it will be rough out there, but let's go..... we have a schedule we want to meet.
The more you expand your sailing knowledge the better, and safer sailor you will become.
Happy sailing
Connie
Keith, I see one of these folks nearly every weekend run aground on the mud bar that sticks out for Priest Point on Budd Bay near Olympia, Washington. Maybe they will learn a lesson as they sit and wait for the tide to come up enough to float them, or pay the bill if they call Vessel Assistance. Steve M-15 # 335 -----Original Message----- From: Keith R. Martin Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 5:40 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sailing safety Yup, it never ceases to amaze me the number of people who are at the helm of a boat with cleary no experience or skill set. Keith R. Martin, P.Eng On Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 5:23 PM Dave Scobie, <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
As Connie wrote - experience and constant learning is worth more than the size of the craft.
Five/six weeks ago as I departed an anchorage I saw a sailboat with its bow up against the rocks. This is Gulf Islands British Columbia so in many places the depth is 100s of feet one foot from the shore.
The captain said the outboard had quit running. I asked 'you aground?'
'No but the motor doesn't work.'
I said, 'the wind is blowing fair so raise the main and backwind off the shore and the run out and sail to Ganges.' (a route that was all down wind and less than 5-6nm long.)
'I don't know how to sail. Never raised the sails.'
So about two weeks later, same place, this boat returns and anchors near me. It is low tide. Six hours later 11' of water has arrived and this sailboat is drifting through the anchorage. Captain isn't aboard (paddleboarding further up the bay to find out). I and another boater rescue the boat. The anchor isn't touching ground. It is on plastic Walmart line tied to 5' of light garden chain to a undersized dayhook Danforth (Danforth anchors are close to worthless on the Salish Sea - and this was one of the quick release dayhook versions!) Captain returns and I row over. Doesn't even notice boat in different location. I mentioned it was drifting and I and another person had boarded moved the boat and set the hook. Captain responds, ' I don't know why the boat drifted it was staying put when I got here.'
The boat is a San Juan 24 and not one person would question this brand/make/size cruising the Salish Sea. The boat was a wreck. Besides the captain needing some sailing classes the shrouds were parting, a spreader broken and every line in deck was rotten. The boat and crew are unsafe.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 4:48 PM Burton Lowry <burtonlowry7@gmail.com> wrote:
Amen to Connie!
We just had a couple pull into our little harbor. In a 30 footer (sailboat). They said they had come up from New Jersey, and had to be rescued by the Coast Guard three times on the way up. My friend, the assistant Harbor master, asked them about their experience in boating. They affirmed they were experienced... they had had kayaks.....
Nothing against kayaks, but doing more learning might have helped!
Burt
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 13, 2019, at 6:34 PM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Peter,
Safety:
This really has nothing to do with the size of your boat, assuming that it is a seaworthy boat like the Montgomerys are, but it has everything to do with the amount of sailing experience you have amassed over time. In other words, have you accumulated enough sea miles so that you feel comfortable being out in whatever conditions Poseidon throws at you?
Let me give you my first example: an ocean going; very safe 30-footer that has been around the world several times sailed by various owners.
If you give a rank sailing beginner such a boat, who has had very little sailing experience; doesn't know how to reef a sail; doesn't know what precautions to take if the weather deteriorates; can't "read" the weather, or the changing wind speed, and who hasn't a clue of what they should do next, can't navigate; doesn't know how to use a marine radio; they are a disaster looking for a place to happen.
If the weather deteriorates; or the fog rolls in; or a front passes through and things get rough; they haven't a clue about what they should be doing for their own safety or for the boat's safety.
The other end of the scale is the experienced seaman - Captain Bligh set adrift in an open long boat with 18 crew members in the Pacific ocean by the mutineers.
Captain Bligh sailed the open long boat across the Pacific to Indonesia, and landed there safely.
Sailors sailing very small boats have successfully crossed the Atlantic and a M15 sailed from San Diego to Hawaii.
Sailing on inland lakes can be far more dangerous sailing than being out on the open ocean
Lakes can be subject to sudden extreme gusts blowing out of a valley. One minute it's a flat calm and a minute later its batten down the hatches; the lee rail is underwater, and your boat is vastly over canvased....
Out on the ocean you may have a front coming through but you - with nautical experience - can see its coming far off in the distance and start by reefing and putting on oilskins and boots; putting in the hatch boards and closing the companionway hatch.
You also are listening to NOAA weather radio; other radio traffic in the greater area gathering information so that you, as Captain, can decide what to do next. You may head for a harbor a mile or two distant; or if out on open waters you prepare the boat for rough conditions; make sure that everything is stowed properly down below; put on safety harnesses; check that all sea cocks are closed and the toilet bowl is empty; prepare some hot coffee in a Thermos bottle if your destination is several hours away.
Lots of sailing experience is the big difference between what for you is reasonable and normal, or what would be sheer terror for a newbie.
There is an old statement: it is better to be standing on the dock wishing you were out sailing, then to be out sailing wishing your were standing on a dock.
Your lack of sailing experience keeps you on the dock.
Previous sailing experience under varied weather conditions tells you it will be rough out there, but let's go..... we have a schedule we want to meet.
The more you expand your sailing knowledge the better, and safer sailor you will become.
Happy sailing
Connie
Steve, the best story I have is from last year that I heard over the VHF. Typical summer Sunday afternoon, a sailboat grounded on the sand head just south of English bay with the tide still heading out. Coast guard confirmed no injuries & no damage to the "captain" asks what he should do next. Coast advises him to fire up the bbq since he is going to be there a while longer. Keith R. Martin, P.Eng On Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 5:53 PM Steve Trapp, <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
Keith, I see one of these folks nearly every weekend run aground on the mud bar that sticks out for Priest Point on Budd Bay near Olympia, Washington. Maybe they will learn a lesson as they sit and wait for the tide to come up enough to float them, or pay the bill if they call Vessel Assistance. Steve M-15 # 335
-----Original Message----- From: Keith R. Martin Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 5:40 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sailing safety
Yup, it never ceases to amaze me the number of people who are at the helm of a boat with cleary no experience or skill set.
Keith R. Martin, P.Eng
On Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 5:23 PM Dave Scobie, <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
As Connie wrote - experience and constant learning is worth more than the size of the craft.
Five/six weeks ago as I departed an anchorage I saw a sailboat with its bow up against the rocks. This is Gulf Islands British Columbia so in many places the depth is 100s of feet one foot from the shore.
The captain said the outboard had quit running. I asked 'you aground?'
'No but the motor doesn't work.'
I said, 'the wind is blowing fair so raise the main and backwind off the shore and the run out and sail to Ganges.' (a route that was all down wind and less than 5-6nm long.)
'I don't know how to sail. Never raised the sails.'
So about two weeks later, same place, this boat returns and anchors near me. It is low tide. Six hours later 11' of water has arrived and this sailboat is drifting through the anchorage. Captain isn't aboard (paddleboarding further up the bay to find out). I and another boater rescue the boat. The anchor isn't touching ground. It is on plastic Walmart line tied to 5' of light garden chain to a undersized dayhook Danforth (Danforth anchors are close to worthless on the Salish Sea - and this was one of the quick release dayhook versions!) Captain returns and I row over. Doesn't even notice boat in different location. I mentioned it was drifting and I and another person had boarded moved the boat and set the hook. Captain responds, ' I don't know why the boat drifted it was staying put when I got here.'
The boat is a San Juan 24 and not one person would question this brand/make/size cruising the Salish Sea. The boat was a wreck. Besides the captain needing some sailing classes the shrouds were parting, a spreader broken and every line in deck was rotten. The boat and crew are unsafe.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 4:48 PM Burton Lowry <burtonlowry7@gmail.com> wrote:
Amen to Connie!
We just had a couple pull into our little harbor. In a 30 footer (sailboat). They said they had come up from New Jersey, and had to be rescued by the Coast Guard three times on the way up. My friend, the assistant Harbor master, asked them about their experience in boating. They affirmed they were experienced... they had had kayaks.....
Nothing against kayaks, but doing more learning might have helped!
Burt
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 13, 2019, at 6:34 PM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Peter,
Safety:
This really has nothing to do with the size of your boat, assuming that it is a seaworthy boat like the Montgomerys are, but it has everything to do with the amount of sailing experience you have amassed over time. In other words, have you accumulated enough sea miles so that you feel comfortable being out in whatever conditions Poseidon throws at you?
Let me give you my first example: an ocean going; very safe 30-footer that has been around the world several times sailed by various owners.
If you give a rank sailing beginner such a boat, who has had very little sailing experience; doesn't know how to reef a sail; doesn't know what precautions to take if the weather deteriorates; can't "read" the weather, or the changing wind speed, and who hasn't a clue of what they should do next, can't navigate; doesn't know how to use a marine radio; they are a disaster looking for a place to happen.
If the weather deteriorates; or the fog rolls in; or a front passes through and things get rough; they haven't a clue about what they should be doing for their own safety or for the boat's safety.
The other end of the scale is the experienced seaman - Captain Bligh set adrift in an open long boat with 18 crew members in the Pacific ocean by the mutineers.
Captain Bligh sailed the open long boat across the Pacific to Indonesia, and landed there safely.
Sailors sailing very small boats have successfully crossed the Atlantic and a M15 sailed from San Diego to Hawaii.
Sailing on inland lakes can be far more dangerous sailing than being out on the open ocean
Lakes can be subject to sudden extreme gusts blowing out of a valley. One minute it's a flat calm and a minute later its batten down the hatches; the lee rail is underwater, and your boat is vastly over canvased....
Out on the ocean you may have a front coming through but you - with nautical experience - can see its coming far off in the distance and start by reefing and putting on oilskins and boots; putting in the hatch boards and closing the companionway hatch.
You also are listening to NOAA weather radio; other radio traffic in the greater area gathering information so that you, as Captain, can decide what to do next. You may head for a harbor a mile or two distant; or if out on open waters you prepare the boat for rough conditions; make sure that everything is stowed properly down below; put on safety harnesses; check that all sea cocks are closed and the toilet bowl is empty; prepare some hot coffee in a Thermos bottle if your destination is several hours away.
Lots of sailing experience is the big difference between what for you is reasonable and normal, or what would be sheer terror for a newbie.
There is an old statement: it is better to be standing on the dock wishing you were out sailing, then to be out sailing wishing your were standing on a dock.
Your lack of sailing experience keeps you on the dock.
Previous sailing experience under varied weather conditions tells you it will be rough out there, but let's go..... we have a schedule we want to meet.
The more you expand your sailing knowledge the better, and safer sailor you will become.
Happy sailing
Connie
Worse yet many of those boaters are standing at the helm of a maxxed out power boat! On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 7:41 PM Keith R. Martin < keith.richard.martin@gmail.com> wrote:
Yup, it never ceases to amaze me the number of people who are at the helm of a boat with cleary no experience or skill set.
Keith R. Martin, P.Eng
On Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 5:23 PM Dave Scobie, <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
As Connie wrote - experience and constant learning is worth more than the size of the craft.
Five/six weeks ago as I departed an anchorage I saw a sailboat with its bow up against the rocks. This is Gulf Islands British Columbia so in many places the depth is 100s of feet one foot from the shore.
The captain said the outboard had quit running. I asked 'you aground?'
'No but the motor doesn't work.'
I said, 'the wind is blowing fair so raise the main and backwind off the shore and the run out and sail to Ganges.' (a route that was all down wind and less than 5-6nm long.)
'I don't know how to sail. Never raised the sails.'
So about two weeks later, same place, this boat returns and anchors near me. It is low tide. Six hours later 11' of water has arrived and this sailboat is drifting through the anchorage. Captain isn't aboard (paddleboarding further up the bay to find out). I and another boater rescue the boat. The anchor isn't touching ground. It is on plastic Walmart line tied to 5' of light garden chain to a undersized dayhook Danforth (Danforth anchors are close to worthless on the Salish Sea - and this was one of the quick release dayhook versions!) Captain returns and I row over. Doesn't even notice boat in different location. I mentioned it was drifting and I and another person had boarded moved the boat and set the hook. Captain responds, ' I don't know why the boat drifted it was staying put when I got here.'
The boat is a San Juan 24 and not one person would question this brand/make/size cruising the Salish Sea. The boat was a wreck. Besides the captain needing some sailing classes the shrouds were parting, a spreader broken and every line in deck was rotten. The boat and crew are unsafe.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 4:48 PM Burton Lowry <burtonlowry7@gmail.com> wrote:
Amen to Connie!
We just had a couple pull into our little harbor. In a 30 footer (sailboat). They said they had come up from New Jersey, and had to be rescued by the Coast Guard three times on the way up. My friend, the assistant Harbor master, asked them about their experience in boating. They affirmed they were experienced... they had had kayaks.....
Nothing against kayaks, but doing more learning might have helped!
Burt
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 13, 2019, at 6:34 PM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Peter,
Safety:
This really has nothing to do with the size of your boat, assuming that it is a seaworthy boat like the Montgomerys are, but it has everything to do with the amount of sailing experience you have amassed over time. In other words, have you accumulated enough sea miles so that you feel comfortable being out in whatever conditions Poseidon throws at you?
Let me give you my first example: an ocean going; very safe 30-footer that has been around the world several times sailed by various owners.
If you give a rank sailing beginner such a boat, who has had very little sailing experience; doesn't know how to reef a sail; doesn't know what precautions to take if the weather deteriorates; can't "read" the weather, or the changing wind speed, and who hasn't a clue of what they should do next, can't navigate; doesn't know how to use a marine radio; they are a disaster looking for a place to happen.
If the weather deteriorates; or the fog rolls in; or a front passes through and things get rough; they haven't a clue about what they should be doing for their own safety or for the boat's safety.
The other end of the scale is the experienced seaman - Captain Bligh set adrift in an open long boat with 18 crew members in the Pacific ocean by the mutineers.
Captain Bligh sailed the open long boat across the Pacific to Indonesia, and landed there safely.
Sailors sailing very small boats have successfully crossed the Atlantic and a M15 sailed from San Diego to Hawaii.
Sailing on inland lakes can be far more dangerous sailing than being out on the open ocean
Lakes can be subject to sudden extreme gusts blowing out of a valley. One minute it's a flat calm and a minute later its batten down the hatches; the lee rail is underwater, and your boat is vastly over canvased....
Out on the ocean you may have a front coming through but you - with nautical experience - can see its coming far off in the distance and start by reefing and putting on oilskins and boots; putting in the hatch boards and closing the companionway hatch.
You also are listening to NOAA weather radio; other radio traffic in the greater area gathering information so that you, as Captain, can decide what to do next. You may head for a harbor a mile or two distant; or if out on open waters you prepare the boat for rough conditions; make sure that everything is stowed properly down below; put on safety harnesses; check that all sea cocks are closed and the toilet bowl is empty; prepare some hot coffee in a Thermos bottle if your destination is several hours away.
Lots of sailing experience is the big difference between what for you is reasonable and normal, or what would be sheer terror for a newbie.
There is an old statement: it is better to be standing on the dock wishing you were out sailing, then to be out sailing wishing your were standing on a dock.
Your lack of sailing experience keeps you on the dock.
Previous sailing experience under varied weather conditions tells you it will be rough out there, but let's go..... we have a schedule we want to meet.
The more you expand your sailing knowledge the better, and safer sailor you will become.
Happy sailing
Connie
The stories you all are telling of hapless sailors are funny...or not, really. But it doesn't surprise me; we've entered an age of instant gratification. People want to go do something but not necessarily put the time into it to learn properly. One thing that really gets me these days is how everyone gets taught to study in order to pass a test, but not really learn the material. Sorry, I'm going on a rant here. LOL My problem is that I over research things; although that's how I ended up with an M17 for our first sailboat, so it can't be all bad. :) We're very happy the way things have turned out this summer; we've gotten a ton of sailing time on our reservoir. Last week was the first time we felt the need to reef, so we put one in before sailing off the mooring. It turned out to be a perfect lesson in how reefing works; we sailed when no one else was, and midday we were able to shake it out and continue on. Now we need to find a ride on the ocean off New England to see what we think about ocean sailing.I have 2 weeks off starting today, so tomorrow we go to finish up the new traveler installation. The traveler is all mounted, but we need to put on the blocks and eye straps used to position it. That will definitely smooth out setting the main.
Hi Gary, Summer sailing in the area from New London to Cape Cod is usually very pleasant. 10 to 15 Knots of wind from the Southwest mean being on a broad reach from Connecticut to the Buzzards Bay area. By about 3 PM things can get quite boisterous in Buzzards Bay if you have the SW wind against a current running in the opposite direction. While they are very infrequent, if you get caught in a Nor'easter they last for three days. The temperature drops to the low 60's the wind howls in the rigging, and I've had green water coming over the our bow in Oak Bluffs Harbor while on a Town mooring. Otherwise it's pleasant sailing / lots of sunshine / lobsters / but look out for the motorboat plague. A major problem sailing at that time might be fog. The fog can vary from, say 200 feet visibility, to a pea-souper. New England sailors learn to navigate under fog curtains or else you go nowhere. My Pratt&Whitney sailing friends taught me how to use a bottom contour line to sail from Watch Hill to Point Judith Harbor of Refuge and with a bit of tide correction added, I hit the western opening to the Harbor. By about 1 PM the fog will dissipate and then you can sail for Buzzards Bay tower in bright sunshine. Interesting places to stop and visit is the Thames River at New London (Electric Boat builds submarines on the eastern shore) the square rigger EAGLE might be back from its summer cruise with Coast Guard Cadets; up beyond the highway / railroad bridges is the New London Submarine Base. You can sail by, but don't get too close to them. Next is the Mystic River with the Mystic Seaport Museum. A great place to visit, and don't miss going into their Book Store and go upstairs to the Book section (great on a rainy day) and also look at their marine art gallery / and ship models display area. Abbots in Noank is a great place to eat a lobster and watch boat traffic go up and down the river. In Narragansett Bay you'll find Newport. Visit some of the old summer homes of the Vanderbilts etc. You know, tiny seaside cottages with 30 rooms, and where it was all a matter of one-upmanship, and who could throw the biggest and most lavish parties. Buy the annual ELDRIDGE Nautical book with tide / current patterns / and local area knowledge information. It's a great cruising area. Connie On 8/13/2019 7:49 PM, Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats wrote:
The stories you all are telling of hapless sailors are funny...or not, really. But it doesn't surprise me; we've entered an age of instant gratification. People want to go do something but not necessarily put the time into it to learn properly. One thing that really gets me these days is how everyone gets taught to study in order to pass a test, but not really learn the material. Sorry, I'm going on a rant here. LOL My problem is that I over research things; although that's how I ended up with an M17 for our first sailboat, so it can't be all bad. :) We're very happy the way things have turned out this summer; we've gotten a ton of sailing time on our reservoir. Last week was the first time we felt the need to reef, so we put one in before sailing off the mooring. It turned out to be a perfect lesson in how reefing works; we sailed when no one else was, and midday we were able to shake it out and continue on. Now we need to find a ride on the ocean off New England to see what we think about ocean sailing.I have 2 weeks off starting today, so tomorrow we go to finish up the new traveler installation. The traveler is all mounted, but we need to put on the blocks and eye straps used to position it. That will definitely smooth out setting the main.
Hi Connie, Thank you for this travelogue! Having sailed on Long Island Sound and traveled to Mystic Seaport (one of my most favorite places) I enjoyed reading the names of places you too have visited. Nice memories! Especially liked the idea of following bottom contours to find your way in a fog. Hurray for modern electronics. Wonder if the depth gauge/fishfinder on my Monty 17 would allow me to do that? Fun. Fair winds, Tom B, Monty 17 #258, AS-IS On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 9:23 PM Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Gary,
Summer sailing in the area from New London to Cape Cod is usually very pleasant. 10 to 15 Knots of wind from the Southwest mean being on a broad reach from Connecticut to the Buzzards Bay area. By about 3 PM things can get quite boisterous in Buzzards Bay if you have the SW wind against a current running in the opposite direction.
While they are very infrequent, if you get caught in a Nor'easter they last for three days.
The temperature drops to the low 60's the wind howls in the rigging, and I've had green water coming over the our bow in Oak Bluffs Harbor while on a Town mooring.
Otherwise it's pleasant sailing / lots of sunshine / lobsters / but look out for the motorboat plague.
A major problem sailing at that time might be fog. The fog can vary from, say 200 feet visibility, to a pea-souper. New England sailors learn to navigate under fog curtains or else you go nowhere. My Pratt&Whitney sailing friends taught me how to use a bottom contour line to sail from Watch Hill to Point Judith Harbor of Refuge and with a bit of tide correction added, I hit the western opening to the Harbor.
By about 1 PM the fog will dissipate and then you can sail for Buzzards Bay tower in bright sunshine.
Interesting places to stop and visit is the Thames River at New London (Electric Boat builds submarines on the eastern shore) the square rigger EAGLE might be back from its summer cruise with Coast Guard Cadets; up beyond the highway / railroad bridges is the New London Submarine Base. You can sail by, but don't get too close to them.
Next is the Mystic River with the Mystic Seaport Museum. A great place to visit, and don't miss going into their Book Store and go upstairs to the Book section (great on a rainy day) and also look at their marine art gallery / and ship models display area.
Abbots in Noank is a great place to eat a lobster and watch boat traffic go up and down the river.
In Narragansett Bay you'll find Newport. Visit some of the old summer homes of the Vanderbilts etc. You know, tiny seaside cottages with 30 rooms, and where it was all a matter of one-upmanship, and who could throw the biggest and most lavish parties.
Buy the annual ELDRIDGE Nautical book with tide / current patterns / and local area knowledge information.
It's a great cruising area.
Connie
On 8/13/2019 7:49 PM, Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats wrote:
The stories you all are telling of hapless sailors are funny...or not, really. But it doesn't surprise me; we've entered an age of instant gratification. People want to go do something but not necessarily put the time into it to learn properly. One thing that really gets me these days is how everyone gets taught to study in order to pass a test, but not really learn the material. Sorry, I'm going on a rant here. LOL My problem is that I over research things; although that's how I ended up with an M17 for our first sailboat, so it can't be all bad. :) We're very happy the way things have turned out this summer; we've gotten a ton of sailing time on our reservoir. Last week was the first time we felt the need to reef, so we put one in before sailing off the mooring. It turned out to be a perfect lesson in how reefing works; we sailed when no one else was, and midday we were able to shake it out and continue on. Now we need to find a ride on the ocean off New England to see what we think about ocean sailing.I have 2 weeks off starting today, so tomorrow we go to finish up the new traveler installation. The traveler is all mounted, but we need to put on the blocks and eye straps used to position it. That will definitely smooth out setting the main.
Gerry, seems like you should reach out to Burt, who lives in Maine, for an Atlantic sail. Thomas Howe McGrew Real Estate 785-550-1169 -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats On Behalf Of Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 7:50 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sailing safety The stories you all are telling of hapless sailors are funny...or not, really. But it doesn't surprise me; we've entered an age of instant gratification. People want to go do something but not necessarily put the time into it to learn properly. One thing that really gets me these days is how everyone gets taught to study in order to pass a test, but not really learn the material. Sorry, I'm going on a rant here. LOL My problem is that I over research things; although that's how I ended up with an M17 for our first sailboat, so it can't be all bad. :) We're very happy the way things have turned out this summer; we've gotten a ton of sailing time on our reservoir. Last week was the first time we felt the need to reef, so we put one in before sailing off the mooring. It turned out to be a perfect lesson in how reefing works; we sailed when no one else was, and midday we were able to shake it out and continue on. Now we need to find a ride on the ocean off New England to see what we think about ocean sailing.I have 2 weeks off starting today, so tomorrow we go to finish up the new traveler installation. The traveler is all mounted, but we need to put on the blocks and eye straps used to position it. That will definitely smooth out setting the main.
Hi Gerry, Burt here in Surry, Maine. Where are you in New England? We've not sailed much in southern Maine, but around midcoast: Penobscot Bay, Union River Bay, Eggemoggin Reach, etc: A good rule: sun means wind, wind means waves. Dead calm in morning at times, then waves steep and fast in late afternoon, then dead calm again. Waves are not tall, but steep. Currents are a BIG issue with the river currents and tides. Met a guy in Bucksport who was in a Monty 17 at the dock--and he was scared...he had lost his anchor as the current was going so fast that he didn't have time to tie off the line when coming down from Bangor..He learned a lesson to tie off first. Anyway, we gave him an anchor and line so he would be safe with his son. Anyway, fantastic sailing here but have a chart, as we have ledge outcroppings, not sandbars in many places. And we have mudflats..... Burt On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 8:50 PM Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
The stories you all are telling of hapless sailors are funny...or not, really. But it doesn't surprise me; we've entered an age of instant gratification. People want to go do something but not necessarily put the time into it to learn properly. One thing that really gets me these days is how everyone gets taught to study in order to pass a test, but not really learn the material. Sorry, I'm going on a rant here. LOL My problem is that I over research things; although that's how I ended up with an M17 for our first sailboat, so it can't be all bad. :) We're very happy the way things have turned out this summer; we've gotten a ton of sailing time on our reservoir. Last week was the first time we felt the need to reef, so we put one in before sailing off the mooring. It turned out to be a perfect lesson in how reefing works; we sailed when no one else was, and midday we were able to shake it out and continue on. Now we need to find a ride on the ocean off New England to see what we think about ocean sailing.I have 2 weeks off starting today, so tomorrow we go to finish up the new traveler installation. The traveler is all mounted, but we need to put on the blocks and eye straps used to position it. That will definitely smooth out setting the main.
Ha ha! Reminds me of worse stories; like the guy who was using an AAA road map to navigate along the coast when rescued...a couple heading for Hawai'i from west coast on their first time out... They would have done well to take some sailing lessons. The reading of water & weather; navigation skills; seamanship; basic nautical safety, etc., applies to all watercraft. There's a bunch of common skills for being in a craft on the water. But the specific skill sets for sailing a sailboat, or paddling a kayak, have just about zero crossover. Speaking as someone who does both anyhow, and has worked as a paddle-sports instructor. Unless you have a sail rig on your kayak. Or a very long kayak paddle for your M15. :-) cheers, John On 8/13/19 4:47 PM, Burton Lowry wrote:
Amen to Connie!
We just had a couple pull into our little harbor. In a 30 footer (sailboat). They said they had come up from New Jersey, and had to be rescued by the Coast Guard three times on the way up. My friend, the assistant Harbor master, asked them about their experience in boating. They affirmed they were experienced... they had had kayaks.....
Nothing against kayaks, but doing more learning might have helped!
Burt
Sent from my iPhone
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Many years ago when my 1985 M-15 was relatively new, my late wife told me, "either learn how to sail this damn boat or get rid of it". I then invested in attending a sailing school and found the sailing school to be best investment of $$ and time I could make in my M-15. Still have the boat, and have set a rule for my grand-kids who now want to go sail with grand-pa; take the sailing school offered by the local parks department first. I want those kids to know what they are doing when the go sailing with grand-pa on his boat. Steve M-15 # 335 -----Original Message----- From: John Schinnerer Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 5:24 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sailing safety Ha ha! Reminds me of worse stories; like the guy who was using an AAA road map to navigate along the coast when rescued...a couple heading for Hawai'i from west coast on their first time out... They would have done well to take some sailing lessons. The reading of water & weather; navigation skills; seamanship; basic nautical safety, etc., applies to all watercraft. There's a bunch of common skills for being in a craft on the water. But the specific skill sets for sailing a sailboat, or paddling a kayak, have just about zero crossover. Speaking as someone who does both anyhow, and has worked as a paddle-sports instructor. Unless you have a sail rig on your kayak. Or a very long kayak paddle for your M15. :-) cheers, John On 8/13/19 4:47 PM, Burton Lowry wrote:
Amen to Connie!
We just had a couple pull into our little harbor. In a 30 footer (sailboat). They said they had come up from New Jersey, and had to be rescued by the Coast Guard three times on the way up. My friend, the assistant Harbor master, asked them about their experience in boating. They affirmed they were experienced... they had had kayaks.....
Nothing against kayaks, but doing more learning might have helped!
Burt
Sent from my iPhone
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
So maybe they are ready to sell that boat? On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 6:48 PM Burton Lowry <burtonlowry7@gmail.com> wrote:
Amen to Connie!
We just had a couple pull into our little harbor. In a 30 footer (sailboat). They said they had come up from New Jersey, and had to be rescued by the Coast Guard three times on the way up. My friend, the assistant Harbor master, asked them about their experience in boating. They affirmed they were experienced... they had had kayaks.....
Nothing against kayaks, but doing more learning might have helped!
Burt
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 13, 2019, at 6:34 PM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Peter,
Safety:
This really has nothing to do with the size of your boat, assuming that it is a seaworthy boat like the Montgomerys are, but it has everything to do with the amount of sailing experience you have amassed over time. In other words, have you accumulated enough sea miles so that you feel comfortable being out in whatever conditions Poseidon throws at you?
Let me give you my first example: an ocean going; very safe 30-footer that has been around the world several times sailed by various owners.
If you give a rank sailing beginner such a boat, who has had very little sailing experience; doesn't know how to reef a sail; doesn't know what precautions to take if the weather deteriorates; can't "read" the weather, or the changing wind speed, and who hasn't a clue of what they should do next, can't navigate; doesn't know how to use a marine radio; they are a disaster looking for a place to happen.
If the weather deteriorates; or the fog rolls in; or a front passes through and things get rough; they haven't a clue about what they should be doing for their own safety or for the boat's safety.
The other end of the scale is the experienced seaman - Captain Bligh set adrift in an open long boat with 18 crew members in the Pacific ocean by the mutineers.
Captain Bligh sailed the open long boat across the Pacific to Indonesia, and landed there safely.
Sailors sailing very small boats have successfully crossed the Atlantic and a M15 sailed from San Diego to Hawaii.
Sailing on inland lakes can be far more dangerous sailing than being out on the open ocean
Lakes can be subject to sudden extreme gusts blowing out of a valley. One minute it's a flat calm and a minute later its batten down the hatches; the lee rail is underwater, and your boat is vastly over canvased....
Out on the ocean you may have a front coming through but you - with nautical experience - can see its coming far off in the distance and start by reefing and putting on oilskins and boots; putting in the hatch boards and closing the companionway hatch.
You also are listening to NOAA weather radio; other radio traffic in the greater area gathering information so that you, as Captain, can decide what to do next. You may head for a harbor a mile or two distant; or if out on open waters you prepare the boat for rough conditions; make sure that everything is stowed properly down below; put on safety harnesses; check that all sea cocks are closed and the toilet bowl is empty; prepare some hot coffee in a Thermos bottle if your destination is several hours away.
Lots of sailing experience is the big difference between what for you is reasonable and normal, or what would be sheer terror for a newbie.
There is an old statement: it is better to be standing on the dock wishing you were out sailing, then to be out sailing wishing your were standing on a dock.
Your lack of sailing experience keeps you on the dock.
Previous sailing experience under varied weather conditions tells you it will be rough out there, but let's go..... we have a schedule we want to meet.
The more you expand your sailing knowledge the better, and safer sailor you will become.
Happy sailing
Connie
HI: Thank you very much for the encouragement. Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky) outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors "Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
On Aug 13, 2019, at 4:34 PM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Peter,
Safety:
This really has nothing to do with the size of your boat, assuming that it is a seaworthy boat like the Montgomerys are, but it has everything to do with the amount of sailing experience you have amassed over time. In other words, have you accumulated enough sea miles so that you feel comfortable being out in whatever conditions Poseidon throws at you?
Let me give you my first example: an ocean going; very safe 30-footer that has been around the world several times sailed by various owners.
If you give a rank sailing beginner such a boat, who has had very little sailing experience; doesn't know how to reef a sail; doesn't know what precautions to take if the weather deteriorates; can't "read" the weather, or the changing wind speed, and who hasn't a clue of what they should do next, can't navigate; doesn't know how to use a marine radio; they are a disaster looking for a place to happen.
If the weather deteriorates; or the fog rolls in; or a front passes through and things get rough; they haven't a clue about what they should be doing for their own safety or for the boat's safety.
The other end of the scale is the experienced seaman - Captain Bligh set adrift in an open long boat with 18 crew members in the Pacific ocean by the mutineers.
Captain Bligh sailed the open long boat across the Pacific to Indonesia, and landed there safely.
Sailors sailing very small boats have successfully crossed the Atlantic and a M15 sailed from San Diego to Hawaii.
Sailing on inland lakes can be far more dangerous sailing than being out on the open ocean
Lakes can be subject to sudden extreme gusts blowing out of a valley. One minute it's a flat calm and a minute later its batten down the hatches; the lee rail is underwater, and your boat is vastly over canvased....
Out on the ocean you may have a front coming through but you - with nautical experience - can see its coming far off in the distance and start by reefing and putting on oilskins and boots; putting in the hatch boards and closing the companionway hatch.
You also are listening to NOAA weather radio; other radio traffic in the greater area gathering information so that you, as Captain, can decide what to do next. You may head for a harbor a mile or two distant; or if out on open waters you prepare the boat for rough conditions; make sure that everything is stowed properly down below; put on safety harnesses; check that all sea cocks are closed and the toilet bowl is empty; prepare some hot coffee in a Thermos bottle if your destination is several hours away.
Lots of sailing experience is the big difference between what for you is reasonable and normal, or what would be sheer terror for a newbie.
There is an old statement: it is better to be standing on the dock wishing you were out sailing, then to be out sailing wishing your were standing on a dock.
Your lack of sailing experience keeps you on the dock.
Previous sailing experience under varied weather conditions tells you it will be rough out there, but let's go..... we have a schedule we want to meet.
The more you expand your sailing knowledge the better, and safer sailor you will become.
Happy sailing
Connie
Hi Peter, An Addendum to my previous email - Can you sail at night? Can you identify various boat-type position lights and what they mean? How about buoy markings and lights; can you use them as intended, or are they just a jumble of confusion? - Can you do dead-reckoning navigation or are you lost unless tied to a GPS or chart plotter umbilical cord? - Electronic navigation may be lovely (I've never used it, it was invented later) but what happens if you loose boat electrical power? ... or don't have replacement batteries on board? Now what do you do? Do hard copy nautical charts still exist? Is you back-up a PC? - Have you ever checked the accuracy of your magnetic compass? If not, why not? It is your primary navigation instrument. - Do you know what a lead-line is and how to use it? Do you have such a primitive, but very useful tool on board? - Do you have a barometer on board to alert you to a weather change? A dropping barometer indicates deteriorating weather.... - Have you ever seen a *Pilot Handbook *or a *Light List*? The Pilot Handbook gives you information that a Captain needs to know heading for unknown shores. Can you get fresh water? Supplies? Are the natives friendly or unfriendly? Are there special weather conditions in that area? The Light List gives you exact details of every navigational light in an area; height of light; on a pole or is it a buoy? Color? Markings? All the information you need to make a positive identification of a particular lighthouse; or harbor entrance navigation lights, and their exact location. - Do you have Tide Tables for your sailing area, ... and do you know how to read them? They also show you the tidal flow from low tide to high tide; and from high tide to low tide; rate of flow and direction. This is important if you are sailing in a place like the English Channel with 26 foot tides that flow at 4 knots. This is where the expression "Go with the flow" originated. If your boat can only do 4.5 knots, it makes no sense to try to sail against a 4 knot tidal flow. Wait till the tide turns and then your over the ground speed is boat speed 4.5 knots plus tide flow 4 knots =s 8.5 knots over ground - which is all that really counts. Connie On 8/13/2019 5:34 PM, Conbert Benneck wrote:
Hi Peter,
Safety:
This really has nothing to do with the size of your boat, assuming that it is a seaworthy boat like the Montgomerys are, but it has everything to do with the amount of sailing experience you have amassed over time. In other words, have you accumulated enough sea miles so that you feel comfortable being out in whatever conditions Poseidon throws at you?
Let me give you my first example: an ocean going; very safe 30-footer that has been around the world several times sailed by various owners.
If you give a rank sailing beginner such a boat, who has had very little sailing experience; doesn't know how to reef a sail; doesn't know what precautions to take if the weather deteriorates; can't "read" the weather, or the changing wind speed, and who hasn't a clue of what they should do next, can't navigate; doesn't know how to use a marine radio; they are a disaster looking for a place to happen.
If the weather deteriorates; or the fog rolls in; or a front passes through and things get rough; they haven't a clue about what they should be doing for their own safety or for the boat's safety.
The other end of the scale is the experienced seaman - Captain Bligh set adrift in an open long boat with 18 crew members in the Pacific ocean by the mutineers.
Captain Bligh sailed the open long boat across the Pacific to Indonesia, and landed there safely.
Sailors sailing very small boats have successfully crossed the Atlantic and a M15 sailed from San Diego to Hawaii.
Sailing on inland lakes can be far more dangerous sailing than being out on the open ocean
Lakes can be subject to sudden extreme gusts blowing out of a valley. One minute it's a flat calm and a minute later its batten down the hatches; the lee rail is underwater, and your boat is vastly over canvased....
Out on the ocean you may have a front coming through but you - with nautical experience - can see its coming far off in the distance and start by reefing and putting on oilskins and boots; putting in the hatch boards and closing the companionway hatch.
You also are listening to NOAA weather radio; other radio traffic in the greater area gathering information so that you, as Captain, can decide what to do next. You may head for a harbor a mile or two distant; or if out on open waters you prepare the boat for rough conditions; make sure that everything is stowed properly down below; put on safety harnesses; check that all sea cocks are closed and the toilet bowl is empty; prepare some hot coffee in a Thermos bottle if your destination is several hours away.
Lots of sailing experience is the big difference between what for you is reasonable and normal, or what would be sheer terror for a newbie.
There is an old statement: it is better to be standing on the dock wishing you were out sailing, then to be out sailing wishing your were standing on a dock.
Your lack of sailing experience keeps you on the dock.
Previous sailing experience under varied weather conditions tells you it will be rough out there, but let's go..... we have a schedule we want to meet.
The more you expand your sailing knowledge the better, and safer sailor you will become.
Happy sailing
Connie
Gee, will all that stuff fit IN a Monty 17? On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 12:14 PM Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Peter,
An Addendum to my previous email
- Can you sail at night? Can you identify various boat-type position lights and what they mean? How about buoy markings and lights; can you use them as intended, or are they just a jumble of confusion?
- Can you do dead-reckoning navigation or are you lost unless tied to a GPS or chart plotter umbilical cord?
- Electronic navigation may be lovely (I've never used it, it was invented later) but what happens if you loose boat electrical power? ... or don't have replacement batteries on board? Now what do you do? Do hard copy nautical charts still exist? Is you back-up a PC?
- Have you ever checked the accuracy of your magnetic compass? If not, why not? It is your primary navigation instrument.
- Do you know what a lead-line is and how to use it? Do you have such a primitive, but very useful tool on board?
- Do you have a barometer on board to alert you to a weather change? A dropping barometer indicates deteriorating weather....
- Have you ever seen a *Pilot Handbook *or a *Light List*? The Pilot Handbook gives you information that a Captain needs to know heading for unknown shores. Can you get fresh water? Supplies? Are the natives friendly or unfriendly? Are there special weather conditions in that area? The Light List gives you exact details of every navigational light in an area; height of light; on a pole or is it a buoy? Color? Markings? All the information you need to make a positive identification of a particular lighthouse; or harbor entrance navigation lights, and their exact location.
- Do you have Tide Tables for your sailing area, ... and do you know how to read them? They also show you the tidal flow from low tide to high tide; and from high tide to low tide; rate of flow and direction. This is important if you are sailing in a place like the English Channel with 26 foot tides that flow at 4 knots. This is where the expression "Go with the flow" originated. If your boat can only do 4.5 knots, it makes no sense to try to sail against a 4 knot tidal flow. Wait till the tide turns and then your over the ground speed is boat speed 4.5 knots plus tide flow 4 knots =s 8.5 knots over ground - which is all that really counts.
Connie
On 8/13/2019 5:34 PM, Conbert Benneck wrote:
Hi Peter,
Safety:
This really has nothing to do with the size of your boat, assuming that it is a seaworthy boat like the Montgomerys are, but it has everything to do with the amount of sailing experience you have amassed over time. In other words, have you accumulated enough sea miles so that you feel comfortable being out in whatever conditions Poseidon throws at you?
Let me give you my first example: an ocean going; very safe 30-footer that has been around the world several times sailed by various owners.
If you give a rank sailing beginner such a boat, who has had very little sailing experience; doesn't know how to reef a sail; doesn't know what precautions to take if the weather deteriorates; can't "read" the weather, or the changing wind speed, and who hasn't a clue of what they should do next, can't navigate; doesn't know how to use a marine radio; they are a disaster looking for a place to happen.
If the weather deteriorates; or the fog rolls in; or a front passes through and things get rough; they haven't a clue about what they should be doing for their own safety or for the boat's safety.
The other end of the scale is the experienced seaman - Captain Bligh set adrift in an open long boat with 18 crew members in the Pacific ocean by the mutineers.
Captain Bligh sailed the open long boat across the Pacific to Indonesia, and landed there safely.
Sailors sailing very small boats have successfully crossed the Atlantic and a M15 sailed from San Diego to Hawaii.
Sailing on inland lakes can be far more dangerous sailing than being out on the open ocean
Lakes can be subject to sudden extreme gusts blowing out of a valley. One minute it's a flat calm and a minute later its batten down the hatches; the lee rail is underwater, and your boat is vastly over canvased....
Out on the ocean you may have a front coming through but you - with nautical experience - can see its coming far off in the distance and start by reefing and putting on oilskins and boots; putting in the hatch boards and closing the companionway hatch.
You also are listening to NOAA weather radio; other radio traffic in the greater area gathering information so that you, as Captain, can decide what to do next. You may head for a harbor a mile or two distant; or if out on open waters you prepare the boat for rough conditions; make sure that everything is stowed properly down below; put on safety harnesses; check that all sea cocks are closed and the toilet bowl is empty; prepare some hot coffee in a Thermos bottle if your destination is several hours away.
Lots of sailing experience is the big difference between what for you is reasonable and normal, or what would be sheer terror for a newbie.
There is an old statement: it is better to be standing on the dock wishing you were out sailing, then to be out sailing wishing your were standing on a dock.
Your lack of sailing experience keeps you on the dock.
Previous sailing experience under varied weather conditions tells you it will be rough out there, but let's go..... we have a schedule we want to meet.
The more you expand your sailing knowledge the better, and safer sailor you will become.
Happy sailing
Connie
hi; Thanks for the extra insight. Got the compass stuff down and always have barometer on board. Since I’ve only been sailing in the SJs, I have the lay of the land and water burned in my brain. But, I haven’t sailed elsewhere like north of Bellingham along the BC coast, which I want to do in a few years. I wouldn’t mind getting together with a Montgomery group to do a little sailing in the SJs or maybe elsewhere in the islands. Thanks Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky) outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors "Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
On Aug 14, 2019, at 11:13 AM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Peter,
An Addendum to my previous email
- Can you sail at night? Can you identify various boat-type position lights and what they mean? How about buoy markings and lights; can you use them as intended, or are they just a jumble of confusion?
- Can you do dead-reckoning navigation or are you lost unless tied to a GPS or chart plotter umbilical cord?
- Electronic navigation may be lovely (I've never used it, it was invented later) but what happens if you loose boat electrical power? ... or don't have replacement batteries on board? Now what do you do? Do hard copy nautical charts still exist? Is you back-up a PC?
- Have you ever checked the accuracy of your magnetic compass? If not, why not? It is your primary navigation instrument.
- Do you know what a lead-line is and how to use it? Do you have such a primitive, but very useful tool on board?
- Do you have a barometer on board to alert you to a weather change? A dropping barometer indicates deteriorating weather....
- Have you ever seen a *Pilot Handbook *or a *Light List*? The Pilot Handbook gives you information that a Captain needs to know heading for unknown shores. Can you get fresh water? Supplies? Are the natives friendly or unfriendly? Are there special weather conditions in that area? The Light List gives you exact details of every navigational light in an area; height of light; on a pole or is it a buoy? Color? Markings? All the information you need to make a positive identification of a particular lighthouse; or harbor entrance navigation lights, and their exact location.
- Do you have Tide Tables for your sailing area, ... and do you know how to read them? They also show you the tidal flow from low tide to high tide; and from high tide to low tide; rate of flow and direction. This is important if you are sailing in a place like the English Channel with 26 foot tides that flow at 4 knots. This is where the expression "Go with the flow" originated. If your boat can only do 4.5 knots, it makes no sense to try to sail against a 4 knot tidal flow. Wait till the tide turns and then your over the ground speed is boat speed 4.5 knots plus tide flow 4 knots =s 8.5 knots over ground - which is all that really counts.
Connie
On 8/13/2019 5:34 PM, Conbert Benneck wrote:
Hi Peter,
Safety:
This really has nothing to do with the size of your boat, assuming that it is a seaworthy boat like the Montgomerys are, but it has everything to do with the amount of sailing experience you have amassed over time. In other words, have you accumulated enough sea miles so that you feel comfortable being out in whatever conditions Poseidon throws at you?
Let me give you my first example: an ocean going; very safe 30-footer that has been around the world several times sailed by various owners.
If you give a rank sailing beginner such a boat, who has had very little sailing experience; doesn't know how to reef a sail; doesn't know what precautions to take if the weather deteriorates; can't "read" the weather, or the changing wind speed, and who hasn't a clue of what they should do next, can't navigate; doesn't know how to use a marine radio; they are a disaster looking for a place to happen.
If the weather deteriorates; or the fog rolls in; or a front passes through and things get rough; they haven't a clue about what they should be doing for their own safety or for the boat's safety.
The other end of the scale is the experienced seaman - Captain Bligh set adrift in an open long boat with 18 crew members in the Pacific ocean by the mutineers.
Captain Bligh sailed the open long boat across the Pacific to Indonesia, and landed there safely.
Sailors sailing very small boats have successfully crossed the Atlantic and a M15 sailed from San Diego to Hawaii.
Sailing on inland lakes can be far more dangerous sailing than being out on the open ocean
Lakes can be subject to sudden extreme gusts blowing out of a valley. One minute it's a flat calm and a minute later its batten down the hatches; the lee rail is underwater, and your boat is vastly over canvased....
Out on the ocean you may have a front coming through but you - with nautical experience - can see its coming far off in the distance and start by reefing and putting on oilskins and boots; putting in the hatch boards and closing the companionway hatch.
You also are listening to NOAA weather radio; other radio traffic in the greater area gathering information so that you, as Captain, can decide what to do next. You may head for a harbor a mile or two distant; or if out on open waters you prepare the boat for rough conditions; make sure that everything is stowed properly down below; put on safety harnesses; check that all sea cocks are closed and the toilet bowl is empty; prepare some hot coffee in a Thermos bottle if your destination is several hours away.
Lots of sailing experience is the big difference between what for you is reasonable and normal, or what would be sheer terror for a newbie.
There is an old statement: it is better to be standing on the dock wishing you were out sailing, then to be out sailing wishing your were standing on a dock.
Your lack of sailing experience keeps you on the dock.
Previous sailing experience under varied weather conditions tells you it will be rough out there, but let's go..... we have a schedule we want to meet.
The more you expand your sailing knowledge the better, and safer sailor you will become.
Happy sailing
Connie
I probably won't make it that far north this year. But next year...! I have some friends in Powell River, so want to go along the Sunshine coast myself. There are several big inlets to explore, and then at the north end you're into Desolation sound and the south end of the gulf islands. One of 'em has a "big boat" (Ericson 35 IIRC) but I wouldn't refuse to sail with him because of that... :-) cheers, John On 8/14/19 10:44 AM, Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats wrote:
hi; Thanks for the extra insight. Got the compass stuff down and always have barometer on board. Since I’ve only been sailing in the SJs, I have the lay of the land and water burned in my brain. But, I haven’t sailed elsewhere like north of Bellingham along the BC coast, which I want to do in a few years. I wouldn’t mind getting together with a Montgomery group to do a little sailing in the SJs or maybe elsewhere in the islands. Thanks Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)
outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors
"Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
On Aug 14, 2019, at 11:13 AM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Peter,
An Addendum to my previous email
- Can you sail at night? Can you identify various boat-type position lights and what they mean? How about buoy markings and lights; can you use them as intended, or are they just a jumble of confusion?
- Can you do dead-reckoning navigation or are you lost unless tied to a GPS or chart plotter umbilical cord?
- Electronic navigation may be lovely (I've never used it, it was invented later) but what happens if you loose boat electrical power? ... or don't have replacement batteries on board? Now what do you do? Do hard copy nautical charts still exist? Is you back-up a PC?
- Have you ever checked the accuracy of your magnetic compass? If not, why not? It is your primary navigation instrument.
- Do you know what a lead-line is and how to use it? Do you have such a primitive, but very useful tool on board?
- Do you have a barometer on board to alert you to a weather change? A dropping barometer indicates deteriorating weather....
- Have you ever seen a *Pilot Handbook *or a *Light List*? The Pilot Handbook gives you information that a Captain needs to know heading for unknown shores. Can you get fresh water? Supplies? Are the natives friendly or unfriendly? Are there special weather conditions in that area? The Light List gives you exact details of every navigational light in an area; height of light; on a pole or is it a buoy? Color? Markings? All the information you need to make a positive identification of a particular lighthouse; or harbor entrance navigation lights, and their exact location.
- Do you have Tide Tables for your sailing area, ... and do you know how to read them? They also show you the tidal flow from low tide to high tide; and from high tide to low tide; rate of flow and direction. This is important if you are sailing in a place like the English Channel with 26 foot tides that flow at 4 knots. This is where the expression "Go with the flow" originated. If your boat can only do 4.5 knots, it makes no sense to try to sail against a 4 knot tidal flow. Wait till the tide turns and then your over the ground speed is boat speed 4.5 knots plus tide flow 4 knots =s 8.5 knots over ground - which is all that really counts.
Connie
On 8/13/2019 5:34 PM, Conbert Benneck wrote:
Hi Peter,
Safety:
This really has nothing to do with the size of your boat, assuming that it is a seaworthy boat like the Montgomerys are, but it has everything to do with the amount of sailing experience you have amassed over time. In other words, have you accumulated enough sea miles so that you feel comfortable being out in whatever conditions Poseidon throws at you?
Let me give you my first example: an ocean going; very safe 30-footer that has been around the world several times sailed by various owners.
If you give a rank sailing beginner such a boat, who has had very little sailing experience; doesn't know how to reef a sail; doesn't know what precautions to take if the weather deteriorates; can't "read" the weather, or the changing wind speed, and who hasn't a clue of what they should do next, can't navigate; doesn't know how to use a marine radio; they are a disaster looking for a place to happen.
If the weather deteriorates; or the fog rolls in; or a front passes through and things get rough; they haven't a clue about what they should be doing for their own safety or for the boat's safety.
The other end of the scale is the experienced seaman - Captain Bligh set adrift in an open long boat with 18 crew members in the Pacific ocean by the mutineers.
Captain Bligh sailed the open long boat across the Pacific to Indonesia, and landed there safely.
Sailors sailing very small boats have successfully crossed the Atlantic and a M15 sailed from San Diego to Hawaii.
Sailing on inland lakes can be far more dangerous sailing than being out on the open ocean
Lakes can be subject to sudden extreme gusts blowing out of a valley. One minute it's a flat calm and a minute later its batten down the hatches; the lee rail is underwater, and your boat is vastly over canvased....
Out on the ocean you may have a front coming through but you - with nautical experience - can see its coming far off in the distance and start by reefing and putting on oilskins and boots; putting in the hatch boards and closing the companionway hatch.
You also are listening to NOAA weather radio; other radio traffic in the greater area gathering information so that you, as Captain, can decide what to do next. You may head for a harbor a mile or two distant; or if out on open waters you prepare the boat for rough conditions; make sure that everything is stowed properly down below; put on safety harnesses; check that all sea cocks are closed and the toilet bowl is empty; prepare some hot coffee in a Thermos bottle if your destination is several hours away.
Lots of sailing experience is the big difference between what for you is reasonable and normal, or what would be sheer terror for a newbie.
There is an old statement: it is better to be standing on the dock wishing you were out sailing, then to be out sailing wishing your were standing on a dock.
Your lack of sailing experience keeps you on the dock.
Previous sailing experience under varied weather conditions tells you it will be rough out there, but let's go..... we have a schedule we want to meet.
The more you expand your sailing knowledge the better, and safer sailor you will become.
Happy sailing
Connie
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Amen Connie! Keith R. Martin, P.Eng On Wed, Aug 14, 2019, 10:14 AM Conbert Benneck, <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Peter,
An Addendum to my previous email
- Can you sail at night? Can you identify various boat-type position lights and what they mean? How about buoy markings and lights; can you use them as intended, or are they just a jumble of confusion?
- Can you do dead-reckoning navigation or are you lost unless tied to a GPS or chart plotter umbilical cord?
- Electronic navigation may be lovely (I've never used it, it was invented later) but what happens if you loose boat electrical power? ... or don't have replacement batteries on board? Now what do you do? Do hard copy nautical charts still exist? Is you back-up a PC?
- Have you ever checked the accuracy of your magnetic compass? If not, why not? It is your primary navigation instrument.
- Do you know what a lead-line is and how to use it? Do you have such a primitive, but very useful tool on board?
- Do you have a barometer on board to alert you to a weather change? A dropping barometer indicates deteriorating weather....
- Have you ever seen a *Pilot Handbook *or a *Light List*? The Pilot Handbook gives you information that a Captain needs to know heading for unknown shores. Can you get fresh water? Supplies? Are the natives friendly or unfriendly? Are there special weather conditions in that area? The Light List gives you exact details of every navigational light in an area; height of light; on a pole or is it a buoy? Color? Markings? All the information you need to make a positive identification of a particular lighthouse; or harbor entrance navigation lights, and their exact location.
- Do you have Tide Tables for your sailing area, ... and do you know how to read them? They also show you the tidal flow from low tide to high tide; and from high tide to low tide; rate of flow and direction. This is important if you are sailing in a place like the English Channel with 26 foot tides that flow at 4 knots. This is where the expression "Go with the flow" originated. If your boat can only do 4.5 knots, it makes no sense to try to sail against a 4 knot tidal flow. Wait till the tide turns and then your over the ground speed is boat speed 4.5 knots plus tide flow 4 knots =s 8.5 knots over ground - which is all that really counts.
Connie
On 8/13/2019 5:34 PM, Conbert Benneck wrote:
Hi Peter,
Safety:
This really has nothing to do with the size of your boat, assuming that it is a seaworthy boat like the Montgomerys are, but it has everything to do with the amount of sailing experience you have amassed over time. In other words, have you accumulated enough sea miles so that you feel comfortable being out in whatever conditions Poseidon throws at you?
Let me give you my first example: an ocean going; very safe 30-footer that has been around the world several times sailed by various owners.
If you give a rank sailing beginner such a boat, who has had very little sailing experience; doesn't know how to reef a sail; doesn't know what precautions to take if the weather deteriorates; can't "read" the weather, or the changing wind speed, and who hasn't a clue of what they should do next, can't navigate; doesn't know how to use a marine radio; they are a disaster looking for a place to happen.
If the weather deteriorates; or the fog rolls in; or a front passes through and things get rough; they haven't a clue about what they should be doing for their own safety or for the boat's safety.
The other end of the scale is the experienced seaman - Captain Bligh set adrift in an open long boat with 18 crew members in the Pacific ocean by the mutineers.
Captain Bligh sailed the open long boat across the Pacific to Indonesia, and landed there safely.
Sailors sailing very small boats have successfully crossed the Atlantic and a M15 sailed from San Diego to Hawaii.
Sailing on inland lakes can be far more dangerous sailing than being out on the open ocean
Lakes can be subject to sudden extreme gusts blowing out of a valley. One minute it's a flat calm and a minute later its batten down the hatches; the lee rail is underwater, and your boat is vastly over canvased....
Out on the ocean you may have a front coming through but you - with nautical experience - can see its coming far off in the distance and start by reefing and putting on oilskins and boots; putting in the hatch boards and closing the companionway hatch.
You also are listening to NOAA weather radio; other radio traffic in the greater area gathering information so that you, as Captain, can decide what to do next. You may head for a harbor a mile or two distant; or if out on open waters you prepare the boat for rough conditions; make sure that everything is stowed properly down below; put on safety harnesses; check that all sea cocks are closed and the toilet bowl is empty; prepare some hot coffee in a Thermos bottle if your destination is several hours away.
Lots of sailing experience is the big difference between what for you is reasonable and normal, or what would be sheer terror for a newbie.
There is an old statement: it is better to be standing on the dock wishing you were out sailing, then to be out sailing wishing your were standing on a dock.
Your lack of sailing experience keeps you on the dock.
Previous sailing experience under varied weather conditions tells you it will be rough out there, but let's go..... we have a schedule we want to meet.
The more you expand your sailing knowledge the better, and safer sailor you will become.
Happy sailing
Connie
Connie, In answer to one of your questions, hard copy charts still exist. I have one of South Puget Sound aboard my M-15. West Marine carries books of real paper charts and will be happy to sell some to you. Steve M-15 # 335 -----Original Message----- From: Conbert Benneck Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2019 10:13 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>>For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sailing safety Hi Peter, An Addendum to my previous email - Can you sail at night? Can you identify various boat-type position lights and what they mean? How about buoy markings and lights; can you use them as intended, or are they just a jumble of confusion? - Can you do dead-reckoning navigation or are you lost unless tied to a GPS or chart plotter umbilical cord? - Electronic navigation may be lovely (I've never used it, it was invented later) but what happens if you loose boat electrical power? ... or don't have replacement batteries on board? Now what do you do? Do hard copy nautical charts still exist? Is you back-up a PC? - Have you ever checked the accuracy of your magnetic compass? If not, why not? It is your primary navigation instrument. - Do you know what a lead-line is and how to use it? Do you have such a primitive, but very useful tool on board? - Do you have a barometer on board to alert you to a weather change? A dropping barometer indicates deteriorating weather.... - Have you ever seen a *Pilot Handbook *or a *Light List*? The Pilot Handbook gives you information that a Captain needs to know heading for unknown shores. Can you get fresh water? Supplies? Are the natives friendly or unfriendly? Are there special weather conditions in that area? The Light List gives you exact details of every navigational light in an area; height of light; on a pole or is it a buoy? Color? Markings? All the information you need to make a positive identification of a particular lighthouse; or harbor entrance navigation lights, and their exact location. - Do you have Tide Tables for your sailing area, ... and do you know how to read them? They also show you the tidal flow from low tide to high tide; and from high tide to low tide; rate of flow and direction. This is important if you are sailing in a place like the English Channel with 26 foot tides that flow at 4 knots. This is where the expression "Go with the flow" originated. If your boat can only do 4.5 knots, it makes no sense to try to sail against a 4 knot tidal flow. Wait till the tide turns and then your over the ground speed is boat speed 4.5 knots plus tide flow 4 knots =s 8.5 knots over ground - which is all that really counts. Connie On 8/13/2019 5:34 PM, Conbert Benneck wrote:
Hi Peter,
Safety:
This really has nothing to do with the size of your boat, assuming that it is a seaworthy boat like the Montgomerys are, but it has everything to do with the amount of sailing experience you have amassed over time. In other words, have you accumulated enough sea miles so that you feel comfortable being out in whatever conditions Poseidon throws at you?
Let me give you my first example: an ocean going; very safe 30-footer that has been around the world several times sailed by various owners.
If you give a rank sailing beginner such a boat, who has had very little sailing experience; doesn't know how to reef a sail; doesn't know what precautions to take if the weather deteriorates; can't "read" the weather, or the changing wind speed, and who hasn't a clue of what they should do next, can't navigate; doesn't know how to use a marine radio; they are a disaster looking for a place to happen.
If the weather deteriorates; or the fog rolls in; or a front passes through and things get rough; they haven't a clue about what they should be doing for their own safety or for the boat's safety.
The other end of the scale is the experienced seaman - Captain Bligh set adrift in an open long boat with 18 crew members in the Pacific ocean by the mutineers.
Captain Bligh sailed the open long boat across the Pacific to Indonesia, and landed there safely.
Sailors sailing very small boats have successfully crossed the Atlantic and a M15 sailed from San Diego to Hawaii.
Sailing on inland lakes can be far more dangerous sailing than being out on the open ocean
Lakes can be subject to sudden extreme gusts blowing out of a valley. One minute it's a flat calm and a minute later its batten down the hatches; the lee rail is underwater, and your boat is vastly over canvased....
Out on the ocean you may have a front coming through but you - with nautical experience - can see its coming far off in the distance and start by reefing and putting on oilskins and boots; putting in the hatch boards and closing the companionway hatch.
You also are listening to NOAA weather radio; other radio traffic in the greater area gathering information so that you, as Captain, can decide what to do next. You may head for a harbor a mile or two distant; or if out on open waters you prepare the boat for rough conditions; make sure that everything is stowed properly down below; put on safety harnesses; check that all sea cocks are closed and the toilet bowl is empty; prepare some hot coffee in a Thermos bottle if your destination is several hours away.
Lots of sailing experience is the big difference between what for you is reasonable and normal, or what would be sheer terror for a newbie.
There is an old statement: it is better to be standing on the dock wishing you were out sailing, then to be out sailing wishing your were standing on a dock.
Your lack of sailing experience keeps you on the dock.
Previous sailing experience under varied weather conditions tells you it will be rough out there, but let's go..... we have a schedule we want to meet.
The more you expand your sailing knowledge the better, and safer sailor you will become.
Happy sailing
Connie
Yeah, most online sellers have them, for example: https://www.defender.com/category.jsp?name=waterproof-chart-books&path=-1|17|2338942&id=2338946 Or they can be bought locally from marine supply stores, boating outfitters, etc. A hardcopy chart (or map, on land) gives so much more context information than a tiny screen (and never runs out of battery or loses signal). cheers, John On 8/14/19 3:02 PM, Steve Trapp wrote:
Connie, In answer to one of your questions, hard copy charts still exist. I have one of South Puget Sound aboard my M-15. West Marine carries books of real paper charts and will be happy to sell some to you. Steve M-15 # 335
-----Original Message----- From: Conbert Benneck Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2019 10:13 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>>For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sailing safety
Hi Peter,
An Addendum to my previous email
- Can you sail at night? Can you identify various boat-type position lights and what they mean? How about buoy markings and lights; can you use them as intended, or are they just a jumble of confusion?
- Can you do dead-reckoning navigation or are you lost unless tied to a GPS or chart plotter umbilical cord?
- Electronic navigation may be lovely (I've never used it, it was invented later) but what happens if you loose boat electrical power? ... or don't have replacement batteries on board? Now what do you do? Do hard copy nautical charts still exist? Is you back-up a PC?
- Have you ever checked the accuracy of your magnetic compass? If not, why not? It is your primary navigation instrument.
- Do you know what a lead-line is and how to use it? Do you have such a primitive, but very useful tool on board?
- Do you have a barometer on board to alert you to a weather change? A dropping barometer indicates deteriorating weather....
- Have you ever seen a *Pilot Handbook *or a *Light List*? The Pilot Handbook gives you information that a Captain needs to know heading for unknown shores. Can you get fresh water? Supplies? Are the natives friendly or unfriendly? Are there special weather conditions in that area? The Light List gives you exact details of every navigational light in an area; height of light; on a pole or is it a buoy? Color? Markings? All the information you need to make a positive identification of a particular lighthouse; or harbor entrance navigation lights, and their exact location.
- Do you have Tide Tables for your sailing area, ... and do you know how to read them? They also show you the tidal flow from low tide to high tide; and from high tide to low tide; rate of flow and direction. This is important if you are sailing in a place like the English Channel with 26 foot tides that flow at 4 knots. This is where the expression "Go with the flow" originated. If your boat can only do 4.5 knots, it makes no sense to try to sail against a 4 knot tidal flow. Wait till the tide turns and then your over the ground speed is boat speed 4.5 knots plus tide flow 4 knots =s 8.5 knots over ground - which is all that really counts.
Connie
On 8/13/2019 5:34 PM, Conbert Benneck wrote:
Hi Peter,
Safety:
This really has nothing to do with the size of your boat, assuming that it is a seaworthy boat like the Montgomerys are, but it has everything to do with the amount of sailing experience you have amassed over time. In other words, have you accumulated enough sea miles so that you feel comfortable being out in whatever conditions Poseidon throws at you?
Let me give you my first example: an ocean going; very safe 30-footer that has been around the world several times sailed by various owners.
If you give a rank sailing beginner such a boat, who has had very little sailing experience; doesn't know how to reef a sail; doesn't know what precautions to take if the weather deteriorates; can't "read" the weather, or the changing wind speed, and who hasn't a clue of what they should do next, can't navigate; doesn't know how to use a marine radio; they are a disaster looking for a place to happen.
If the weather deteriorates; or the fog rolls in; or a front passes through and things get rough; they haven't a clue about what they should be doing for their own safety or for the boat's safety.
The other end of the scale is the experienced seaman - Captain Bligh set adrift in an open long boat with 18 crew members in the Pacific ocean by the mutineers.
Captain Bligh sailed the open long boat across the Pacific to Indonesia, and landed there safely.
Sailors sailing very small boats have successfully crossed the Atlantic and a M15 sailed from San Diego to Hawaii.
Sailing on inland lakes can be far more dangerous sailing than being out on the open ocean
Lakes can be subject to sudden extreme gusts blowing out of a valley. One minute it's a flat calm and a minute later its batten down the hatches; the lee rail is underwater, and your boat is vastly over canvased....
Out on the ocean you may have a front coming through but you - with nautical experience - can see its coming far off in the distance and start by reefing and putting on oilskins and boots; putting in the hatch boards and closing the companionway hatch.
You also are listening to NOAA weather radio; other radio traffic in the greater area gathering information so that you, as Captain, can decide what to do next. You may head for a harbor a mile or two distant; or if out on open waters you prepare the boat for rough conditions; make sure that everything is stowed properly down below; put on safety harnesses; check that all sea cocks are closed and the toilet bowl is empty; prepare some hot coffee in a Thermos bottle if your destination is several hours away.
Lots of sailing experience is the big difference between what for you is reasonable and normal, or what would be sheer terror for a newbie.
There is an old statement: it is better to be standing on the dock wishing you were out sailing, then to be out sailing wishing your were standing on a dock.
Your lack of sailing experience keeps you on the dock.
Previous sailing experience under varied weather conditions tells you it will be rough out there, but let's go..... we have a schedule we want to meet.
The more you expand your sailing knowledge the better, and safer sailor you will become.
Happy sailing
Connie
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Hi all: I have a hard copy chart for the San Juan Islands, Victoria, Sidney, North Pender, all the way over to Bellingham Bay. I like it better than electronics. Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky) outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors "Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.
On Aug 14, 2019, at 4:22 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Yeah, most online sellers have them, for example: https://www.defender.com/category.jsp?name=waterproof-chart-books&path=-1|17|2338942&id=2338946
Or they can be bought locally from marine supply stores, boating outfitters, etc.
A hardcopy chart (or map, on land) gives so much more context information than a tiny screen (and never runs out of battery or loses signal).
cheers, John
On 8/14/19 3:02 PM, Steve Trapp wrote:
Connie, In answer to one of your questions, hard copy charts still exist. I have one of South Puget Sound aboard my M-15. West Marine carries books of real paper charts and will be happy to sell some to you. Steve M-15 # 335 -----Original Message----- From: Conbert Benneck Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2019 10:13 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>>For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sailing safety Hi Peter, An Addendum to my previous email - Can you sail at night? Can you identify various boat-type position lights and what they mean? How about buoy markings and lights; can you use them as intended, or are they just a jumble of confusion? - Can you do dead-reckoning navigation or are you lost unless tied to a GPS or chart plotter umbilical cord? - Electronic navigation may be lovely (I've never used it, it was invented later) but what happens if you loose boat electrical power? ... or don't have replacement batteries on board? Now what do you do? Do hard copy nautical charts still exist? Is you back-up a PC? - Have you ever checked the accuracy of your magnetic compass? If not, why not? It is your primary navigation instrument. - Do you know what a lead-line is and how to use it? Do you have such a primitive, but very useful tool on board? - Do you have a barometer on board to alert you to a weather change? A dropping barometer indicates deteriorating weather.... - Have you ever seen a *Pilot Handbook *or a *Light List*? The Pilot Handbook gives you information that a Captain needs to know heading for unknown shores. Can you get fresh water? Supplies? Are the natives friendly or unfriendly? Are there special weather conditions in that area? The Light List gives you exact details of every navigational light in an area; height of light; on a pole or is it a buoy? Color? Markings? All the information you need to make a positive identification of a particular lighthouse; or harbor entrance navigation lights, and their exact location. - Do you have Tide Tables for your sailing area, ... and do you know how to read them? They also show you the tidal flow from low tide to high tide; and from high tide to low tide; rate of flow and direction. This is important if you are sailing in a place like the English Channel with 26 foot tides that flow at 4 knots. This is where the expression "Go with the flow" originated. If your boat can only do 4.5 knots, it makes no sense to try to sail against a 4 knot tidal flow. Wait till the tide turns and then your over the ground speed is boat speed 4.5 knots plus tide flow 4 knots =s 8.5 knots over ground - which is all that really counts. Connie On 8/13/2019 5:34 PM, Conbert Benneck wrote:
Hi Peter,
Safety:
This really has nothing to do with the size of your boat, assuming that it is a seaworthy boat like the Montgomerys are, but it has everything to do with the amount of sailing experience you have amassed over time. In other words, have you accumulated enough sea miles so that you feel comfortable being out in whatever conditions Poseidon throws at you?
Let me give you my first example: an ocean going; very safe 30-footer that has been around the world several times sailed by various owners.
If you give a rank sailing beginner such a boat, who has had very little sailing experience; doesn't know how to reef a sail; doesn't know what precautions to take if the weather deteriorates; can't "read" the weather, or the changing wind speed, and who hasn't a clue of what they should do next, can't navigate; doesn't know how to use a marine radio; they are a disaster looking for a place to happen.
If the weather deteriorates; or the fog rolls in; or a front passes through and things get rough; they haven't a clue about what they should be doing for their own safety or for the boat's safety.
The other end of the scale is the experienced seaman - Captain Bligh set adrift in an open long boat with 18 crew members in the Pacific ocean by the mutineers.
Captain Bligh sailed the open long boat across the Pacific to Indonesia, and landed there safely.
Sailors sailing very small boats have successfully crossed the Atlantic and a M15 sailed from San Diego to Hawaii.
Sailing on inland lakes can be far more dangerous sailing than being out on the open ocean
Lakes can be subject to sudden extreme gusts blowing out of a valley. One minute it's a flat calm and a minute later its batten down the hatches; the lee rail is underwater, and your boat is vastly over canvased....
Out on the ocean you may have a front coming through but you - with nautical experience - can see its coming far off in the distance and start by reefing and putting on oilskins and boots; putting in the hatch boards and closing the companionway hatch.
You also are listening to NOAA weather radio; other radio traffic in the greater area gathering information so that you, as Captain, can decide what to do next. You may head for a harbor a mile or two distant; or if out on open waters you prepare the boat for rough conditions; make sure that everything is stowed properly down below; put on safety harnesses; check that all sea cocks are closed and the toilet bowl is empty; prepare some hot coffee in a Thermos bottle if your destination is several hours away.
Lots of sailing experience is the big difference between what for you is reasonable and normal, or what would be sheer terror for a newbie.
There is an old statement: it is better to be standing on the dock wishing you were out sailing, then to be out sailing wishing your were standing on a dock.
Your lack of sailing experience keeps you on the dock.
Previous sailing experience under varied weather conditions tells you it will be rough out there, but let's go..... we have a schedule we want to meet.
The more you expand your sailing knowledge the better, and safer sailor you will become.
Happy sailing
Connie
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
On 8/14/19 10:13 AM, Conbert Benneck wrote: ...
- Have you ever seen a *Pilot Handbook *or a *Light List*? ... The Light List gives you exact details of every navigational light in an area; height of light; on a pole or is it a buoy? Color? Markings? All the information you need to make a positive identification of a particular lighthouse; or harbor entrance navigation lights, and their exact location.
Some lights info is often on the charts - and includes angles of view of the light, when they have restricted angles of view. At night one can navigate by finding position and/or following a course based on the lights visible, and what to look for next. It's very cool actually. I have only experienced a whole passage like this once, very long ago, but it was darn exciting, sailing along in the starlit dark in between islands in the Stockholm archipelago, being shown on the chart where we were, what lights showed our position, and what light(s) to watch for next and where, so we'd we stay on course and in suitable water. It was also cool that the passage was on an old (1930's or thereabouts) wooden Scandinavian lake cruiser type boat, long and low and narrow, with full keel, wooden spars, etc. (one of my "Old Country" Swedish-Finn cousins was living in Stockholm at the time and her then-boyfriend, a British expat, was the boat owner/skipper). Not quite so long and thin, nor nearly as highly polished, as this example, but you get the general idea: https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2438/3618674531_4c248b3df2_b.jpg cheers, John -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
participants (10)
-
Burton Lowry -
Conbert Benneck -
Dave Scobie -
Gerry Lempicki -
John Schinnerer -
Keith R. Martin -
Peter Zimowsky -
Steve Trapp -
Thomas Buzzi -
Thomas Howe