One of the upgrades I've been considering for my M-17 is a tiller pilot. However, I have mixed feelings about such a device as I enjoy the intimacy with the water environment a small craft allows--and I wonder if too much "automation" will detract from that. Plus, I believe in the KISS approach to boat-keeping. But on a couple of cruises this past summer I had some long stretches of motoring (six hours returning from Isle Royale) or hours-long no-tacking sailing legs where a tiller pilot would have allowed me to brew a cup of joe or make a sandwich or just enjoy the view from the boat's bow. Having said all of that, I'm curious as to how many Monty owners have installed tiller pilots on their boats. If you have, what brand did you choose, how did the installation go and how has it worked out? Does the pilot work well? Do you use it as much as you anticipated? I would enjoy getting your input, advice or opinions. Thanks! Gordon '83 M-17 #377 "Sapphire" Milwaukee, WI
Hey Gordon, I picked up a tiller pilot from West Marine a couple of years back and was all set to install it until I tried a tiller tamer set up and found that to work reasonably well. As long as I am either motoring or am sailing well balanced it performs well. Much better on the M17 then on the M15 though as the M17 seems to be less effected by my movement then my M15 does. Although on our trip last summer I found that the boat would turn opposite of which side I was standing on much like a hard chined kayak does which was kind of fun. The tiller pilot I picked up is a raymarine ST-1000 and seems well suited to smaller boats. Perhaps this winter I will finally get around to installing it, but honestly I am not sure I want the added complexity. --Chad On Nov 17, 2009, at 12:33 PM, Gordon Gilbert wrote:
One of the upgrades I've been considering for my M-17 is a tiller pilot. However, I have mixed feelings about such a device as I enjoy the intimacy with the water environment a small craft allows--and I wonder if too much "automation" will detract from that. Plus, I believe in the KISS approach to boat-keeping. But on a couple of cruises this past summer I had some long stretches of motoring (six hours returning from Isle Royale) or hours-long no-tacking sailing legs where a tiller pilot would have allowed me to brew a cup of joe or make a sandwich or just enjoy the view from the boat's bow.
Having said all of that, I'm curious as to how many Monty owners have installed tiller pilots on their boats. If you have, what brand did you choose, how did the installation go and how has it worked out? Does the pilot work well? Do you use it as much as you anticipated? I would enjoy getting your input, advice or opinions. Thanks!
Gordon '83 M-17 #377 "Sapphire" Milwaukee, WI
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Thanks for your comments, Chad. I do have and use a Tiller Tamer, which will keep me on course for a short period, but not long. I too have noticed how you can "carve a turn" as we do with kayaks by heeling the boat with your weight on one side or the other. The complexity of another piece of electronics is definitely something to consider. Gordon On Nov 17, 2009, at 12:49 PM, Chad Parrish wrote:
Hey Gordon,
I picked up a tiller pilot from West Marine a couple of years back and was all set to install it until I tried a tiller tamer set up and found that to work reasonably well. As long as I am either motoring or am sailing well balanced it performs well. Much better on the M17 then on the M15 though as the M17 seems to be less effected by my movement then my M15 does. Although on our trip last summer I found that the boat would turn opposite of which side I was standing on much like a hard chined kayak does which was kind of fun.
The tiller pilot I picked up is a raymarine ST-1000 and seems well suited to smaller boats. Perhaps this winter I will finally get around to installing it, but honestly I am not sure I want the added complexity.
--Chad
On Nov 17, 2009, at 12:33 PM, Gordon Gilbert wrote:
One of the upgrades I've been considering for my M-17 is a tiller pilot. However, I have mixed feelings about such a device as I enjoy the intimacy with the water environment a small craft allows--and I wonder if too much "automation" will detract from that. Plus, I believe in the KISS approach to boat-keeping. But on a couple of cruises this past summer I had some long stretches of motoring (six hours returning from Isle Royale) or hours-long no-tacking sailing legs where a tiller pilot would have allowed me to brew a cup of joe or make a sandwich or just enjoy the view from the boat's bow.
Having said all of that, I'm curious as to how many Monty owners have installed tiller pilots on their boats. If you have, what brand did you choose, how did the installation go and how has it worked out? Does the pilot work well? Do you use it as much as you anticipated? I would enjoy getting your input, advice or opinions. Thanks!
Gordon '83 M-17 #377 "Sapphire" Milwaukee, WI
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Hi Gordon, On our M15, I only used my own home-made "tiller-tamer", or sheet to tiller control to hold a course. Both worked reasonably well, though the M15 being small and light is very trim sensitive. If you move forward, .... the course changes. On my previous large boats I have played all the games to achieve self-steering: I designed and built a wind vane steering system that mounted on the stern pulpit. When there was wind, it worked very nicely and held a very good course over longer periods of time. The catch here is: No wind; .... no self steering I have also played the sheet to tiller methods game for holding a course. Once you learn how to do it - it's a lot of trial and error - it works very nicely without the complexity of lines criss-crossing the cockpit. Whenever I set up the wind vane my wife complained about getting caught in my spiderweb of lines when she wanted to stretch out on the cockpit seat and sunbathe. Like the wind vane system this method works well, ....... if there is wind. No wind, ..... no self steering Since we occasionally also had the problem you mentioned, long hauls with no wind and under power, then the only thing that works reliably is an electronic autopilot. We finally bought one, I believe it was called a Tiller Master (ca. 1988), and worked directly on the tiller (the other end was fastened to a swivel fitting on the cockpit coaming. It had an internal compass, so that you could rotate a dial to set the course, and then switch it on. It held an excellent course hour after hour motoring (but having a Universal Atomic 4 as an engine, I also had the necessary electrical power to run to autopilot). This type of tiller autopilot was a very simple installation, and, in use, didn't clutter up the cockpit. It also handled swells and waves very well. Connie
Hey Gordon,
I picked up a tiller pilot from West Marine a couple of years back and was all set to install it until I tried a tiller tamer set up and found that to work reasonably well. As long as I am either motoring or am sailing well balanced it performs well. Much better on the M17 then on the M15 though as the M17 seems to be less effected by my movement then my M15 does. Although on our trip last summer I found that the boat would turn opposite of which side I was standing on much like a hard chined kayak does which was kind of fun.
The tiller pilot I picked up is a raymarine ST-1000 and seems well suited to smaller boats. Perhaps this winter I will finally get around to installing it, but honestly I am not sure I want the added complexity.
--Chad
On Nov 17, 2009, at 12:33 PM, Gordon Gilbert wrote:
One of the upgrades I've been considering for my M-17 is a tiller pilot. However, I have mixed feelings about such a device as I enjoy the intimacy with the water environment a small craft allows--and I wonder if too much "automation" will detract from that. Plus, I believe in the KISS approach to boat-keeping. But on a couple of cruises this past summer I had some long stretches of motoring (six hours returning from Isle Royale) or hours-long no-tacking sailing legs where a tiller pilot would have allowed me to brew a cup of joe or make a sandwich or just enjoy the view from the boat's bow.
Having said all of that, I'm curious as to how many Monty owners have installed tiller pilots on their boats. If you have, what brand did you choose, how did the installation go and how has it worked out? Does the pilot work well? Do you use it as much as you anticipated? I would enjoy getting your input, advice or opinions. Thanks!
Gordon '83 M-17 #377 "Sapphire" Milwaukee, WI
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Sounds like you've done some interesting experiments in self steering. Thanks, Connie! Gordon On Nov 18, 2009, at 3:28 PM, Conbert H. Benneck wrote:
Hi Gordon,
On our M15, I only used my own home-made "tiller-tamer", or sheet to tiller control to hold a course. Both worked reasonably well, though the M15 being small and light is very trim sensitive. If you move forward, .... the course changes.
On my previous large boats I have played all the games to achieve self-steering:
I designed and built a wind vane steering system that mounted on the stern pulpit. When there was wind, it worked very nicely and held a very good course over longer periods of time. The catch here is: No wind; .... no self steering
I have also played the sheet to tiller methods game for holding a course. Once you learn how to do it - it's a lot of trial and error - it works very nicely without the complexity of lines criss-crossing the cockpit. Whenever I set up the wind vane my wife complained about getting caught in my spiderweb of lines when she wanted to stretch out on the cockpit seat and sunbathe. Like the wind vane system this method works well, ....... if there is wind. No wind, ..... no self steering
Since we occasionally also had the problem you mentioned, long hauls with no wind and under power, then the only thing that works reliably is an electronic autopilot. We finally bought one, I believe it was called a Tiller Master (ca. 1988), and worked directly on the tiller (the other end was fastened to a swivel fitting on the cockpit coaming. It had an internal compass, so that you could rotate a dial to set the course, and then switch it on. It held an excellent course hour after hour motoring (but having a Universal Atomic 4 as an engine, I also had the necessary electrical power to run to autopilot). This type of tiller autopilot was a very simple installation, and, in use, didn't clutter up the cockpit. It also handled swells and waves very well.
Connie
Hey Gordon,
I picked up a tiller pilot from West Marine a couple of years back and was all set to install it until I tried a tiller tamer set up and found that to work reasonably well. As long as I am either motoring or am sailing well balanced it performs well. Much better on the M17 then on the M15 though as the M17 seems to be less effected by my movement then my M15 does. Although on our trip last summer I found that the boat would turn opposite of which side I was standing on much like a hard chined kayak does which was kind of fun.
The tiller pilot I picked up is a raymarine ST-1000 and seems well suited to smaller boats. Perhaps this winter I will finally get around to installing it, but honestly I am not sure I want the added complexity.
--Chad
On Nov 17, 2009, at 12:33 PM, Gordon Gilbert wrote:
One of the upgrades I've been considering for my M-17 is a tiller pilot. However, I have mixed feelings about such a device as I enjoy the intimacy with the water environment a small craft allows--and I wonder if too much "automation" will detract from that. Plus, I believe in the KISS approach to boat-keeping. But on a couple of cruises this past summer I had some long stretches of motoring (six hours returning from Isle Royale) or hours-long no-tacking sailing legs where a tiller pilot would have allowed me to brew a cup of joe or make a sandwich or just enjoy the view from the boat's bow.
Having said all of that, I'm curious as to how many Monty owners have installed tiller pilots on their boats. If you have, what brand did you choose, how did the installation go and how has it worked out? Does the pilot work well? Do you use it as much as you anticipated? I would enjoy getting your input, advice or opinions. Thanks!
Gordon '83 M-17 #377 "Sapphire" Milwaukee, WI
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Gordon, After using a Tiller Trimmer for over a year, I am now using the ultimate in KISS tiller minders. The Tiller Trimmer would hold course indefinitely with occasional adjustments, but seemed to wear out eventually, letting the line slip out of the track too easily. I may have been partly to blame my mounting it at a shallower angle than the instructions specified. However, reluctant to buy a replacement, I remembered reading somewhere (possibly on this forum) about a simple, single-line tiller minder. This uses a single line cleated at one transom mooring cleat, led to the forward quarter or so of the tiller where it is wrapped about four times. It's then cleated off on the opposite transom cleat. When you pull the wraps forward the friction holds them tight on the tiller and the boat holds course. Push them to the back of the tiller and you're free to steer. When they're tight, you can make minor course changes by simply twisting them the appropriate way. It works at least as well as the Till Trimmer, and costs next to nothing. I use it all the time when going below, setting sails, or just for relaxation. Good luck, Rick M-17 #633 Lynne L On 11/17/09, Gordon Gilbert <Gordon@financialwriting.net> wrote:
One of the upgrades I've been considering for my M-17 is a tiller pilot. However, I have mixed feelings about such a device as I enjoy the intimacy with the water environment a small craft allows--and I wonder if too much "automation" will detract from that. Plus, I believe in the KISS approach to boat-keeping. But on a couple of cruises this past summer I had some long stretches of motoring (six hours returning from Isle Royale) or hours-long no-tacking sailing legs where a tiller pilot would have allowed me to brew a cup of joe or make a sandwich or just enjoy the view from the boat's bow.
Having said all of that, I'm curious as to how many Monty owners have installed tiller pilots on their boats. If you have, what brand did you choose, how did the installation go and how has it worked out? Does the pilot work well? Do you use it as much as you anticipated? I would enjoy getting your input, advice or opinions. Thanks!
Gordon '83 M-17 #377 "Sapphire" Milwaukee, WI
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Interesting. I like the simplicity. Thanks, Rick! On Nov 17, 2009, at 12:52 PM, Rick Davies wrote:
Gordon,
After using a Tiller Trimmer for over a year, I am now using the ultimate in KISS tiller minders. The Tiller Trimmer would hold course indefinitely with occasional adjustments, but seemed to wear out eventually, letting the line slip out of the track too easily. I may have been partly to blame my mounting it at a shallower angle than the instructions specified. However, reluctant to buy a replacement, I remembered reading somewhere (possibly on this forum) about a simple, single-line tiller minder. This uses a single line cleated at one transom mooring cleat, led to the forward quarter or so of the tiller where it is wrapped about four times. It's then cleated off on the opposite transom cleat. When you pull the wraps forward the friction holds them tight on the tiller and the boat holds course. Push them to the back of the tiller and you're free to steer. When they're tight, you can make minor course changes by simply twisting them the appropriate way. It works at least as well as the Till Trimmer, and costs next to nothing. I use it all the time when going below, setting sails, or just for relaxation.
Good luck,
Rick M-17 #633 Lynne L
On 11/17/09, Gordon Gilbert <Gordon@financialwriting.net> wrote:
One of the upgrades I've been considering for my M-17 is a tiller pilot. However, I have mixed feelings about such a device as I enjoy the intimacy with the water environment a small craft allows--and I wonder if too much "automation" will detract from that. Plus, I believe in the KISS approach to boat-keeping. But on a couple of cruises this past summer I had some long stretches of motoring (six hours returning from Isle Royale) or hours-long no-tacking sailing legs where a tiller pilot would have allowed me to brew a cup of joe or make a sandwich or just enjoy the view from the boat's bow.
Having said all of that, I'm curious as to how many Monty owners have installed tiller pilots on their boats. If you have, what brand did you choose, how did the installation go and how has it worked out? Does the pilot work well? Do you use it as much as you anticipated? I would enjoy getting your input, advice or opinions. Thanks!
Gordon '83 M-17 #377 "Sapphire" Milwaukee, WI
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I sent the following URL to the forum last summer. Since I too found it to be the ultimate in simplicity and quite effective on my 17, here it is again: www.blumhorst.com/potterpages/Photopoint/.../cajun-tiller-tamer.htm Tom Jenkins On Nov 17, 2009, at 10:58 AM, Gordon Gilbert wrote:
Interesting. I like the simplicity. Thanks, Rick!
On Nov 17, 2009, at 12:52 PM, Rick Davies wrote:
Gordon,
After using a Tiller Trimmer for over a year, I am now using the ultimate in KISS tiller minders. The Tiller Trimmer would hold course indefinitely with occasional adjustments, but seemed to wear out eventually, letting the line slip out of the track too easily. I may have been partly to blame my mounting it at a shallower angle than the instructions specified. However, reluctant to buy a replacement, I remembered reading somewhere (possibly on this forum) about a simple, single-line tiller minder. This uses a single line cleated at one transom mooring cleat, led to the forward quarter or so of the tiller where it is wrapped about four times. It's then cleated off on the opposite transom cleat. When you pull the wraps forward the friction holds them tight on the tiller and the boat holds course. Push them to the back of the tiller and you're free to steer. When they're tight, you can make minor course changes by simply twisting them the appropriate way. It works at least as well as the Till Trimmer, and costs next to nothing. I use it all the time when going below, setting sails, or just for relaxation.
Good luck,
Rick M-17 #633 Lynne L
On 11/17/09, Gordon Gilbert <Gordon@financialwriting.net> wrote:
One of the upgrades I've been considering for my M-17 is a tiller pilot. However, I have mixed feelings about such a device as I enjoy the intimacy with the water environment a small craft allows--and I wonder if too much "automation" will detract from that. Plus, I believe in the KISS approach to boat-keeping. But on a couple of cruises this past summer I had some long stretches of motoring (six hours returning from Isle Royale) or hours-long no-tacking sailing legs where a tiller pilot would have allowed me to brew a cup of joe or make a sandwich or just enjoy the view from the boat's bow.
Having said all of that, I'm curious as to how many Monty owners have installed tiller pilots on their boats. If you have, what brand did you choose, how did the installation go and how has it worked out? Does the pilot work well? Do you use it as much as you anticipated? I would enjoy getting your input, advice or opinions. Thanks!
Gordon '83 M-17 #377 "Sapphire" Milwaukee, WI
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Gordon, Great question! Must be the time of year when we think about what we want to add, change, delete, fix for next season. We were just discussing an AP on the weekend, as I had seen a fall special on the Raymarine ST-1000+ at the "toy" store I frequent. I searched the archives for this list and also on Trailer Sailor and found some interesting info. Mixed opinions of course. If I was out for 2 weeks, and running the AP for a couple of hours each day, I might be tempted to add a second battery. Especially if I was running depth sounder and GPS. I still have to add my amp load. If you go to the Raymarine site and drill down to the ST-1000, there is a manual in .pdf that you can download. We have used the line from the cleats around the tiller on all our boats and it works pretty well. Lets you relax your posture a bit. I am sure the AP would let you relax even more which could be a bad thing. Do you have jack lines and tether for going forward while single handing? Bill Wickett M17, Cambridge, ON On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Gordon Gilbert <Gordon@financialwriting.net
wrote:
One of the upgrades I've been considering for my M-17 is a tiller pilot. However, I have mixed feelings about such a device as I enjoy the intimacy with the water environment a small craft allows--and I wonder if too much "automation" will detract from that. Plus, I believe in the KISS approach to boat-keeping. But on a couple of cruises this past summer I had some long stretches of motoring (six hours returning from Isle Royale) or hours-long no-tacking sailing legs where a tiller pilot would have allowed me to brew a cup of joe or make a sandwich or just enjoy the view from the boat's bow.
Having said all of that, I'm curious as to how many Monty owners have installed tiller pilots on their boats. If you have, what brand did you choose, how did the installation go and how has it worked out? Does the pilot work well? Do you use it as much as you anticipated? I would enjoy getting your input, advice or opinions. Thanks!
Gordon '83 M-17 #377 "Sapphire" Milwaukee, WI
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Hey, Bill: Thanks to you and others for the input. Right, you wouldn't want to get too comfy and assume the tiller pilot will watch out for you. Gordon P.S. Yes, I do use a harness and tether when single handing in rough conditions. On Nov 17, 2009, at 5:51 PM, Bill Wickett wrote:
Gordon,
Great question! Must be the time of year when we think about what we want to add, change, delete, fix for next season.
We were just discussing an AP on the weekend, as I had seen a fall special on the Raymarine ST-1000+ at the "toy" store I frequent.
I searched the archives for this list and also on Trailer Sailor and found some interesting info. Mixed opinions of course. If I was out for 2 weeks, and running the AP for a couple of hours each day, I might be tempted to add a second battery. Especially if I was running depth sounder and GPS. I still have to add my amp load.
If you go to the Raymarine site and drill down to the ST-1000, there is a manual in .pdf that you can download.
We have used the line from the cleats around the tiller on all our boats and it works pretty well. Lets you relax your posture a bit. I am sure the AP would let you relax even more which could be a bad thing.
Do you have jack lines and tether for going forward while single handing?
Bill Wickett M17, Cambridge, ON
On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Gordon Gilbert <Gordon@financialwriting.net
wrote:
One of the upgrades I've been considering for my M-17 is a tiller pilot. However, I have mixed feelings about such a device as I enjoy the intimacy with the water environment a small craft allows--and I wonder if too much "automation" will detract from that. Plus, I believe in the KISS approach to boat-keeping. But on a couple of cruises this past summer I had some long stretches of motoring (six hours returning from Isle Royale) or hours-long no-tacking sailing legs where a tiller pilot would have allowed me to brew a cup of joe or make a sandwich or just enjoy the view from the boat's bow.
Having said all of that, I'm curious as to how many Monty owners have installed tiller pilots on their boats. If you have, what brand did you choose, how did the installation go and how has it worked out? Does the pilot work well? Do you use it as much as you anticipated? I would enjoy getting your input, advice or opinions. Thanks!
Gordon '83 M-17 #377 "Sapphire" Milwaukee, WI
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While we're on the subjecto f jacklines and tethers, how many of you have installed lifelines on your M17's? Joe
None here. Somewhere I have seen pics of a 17 with a stern rail/pulpit. I think you would need at least that to add secure lifelines. Bill On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 10:10 AM, Joe Murphy <seagray@embarqmail.com> wrote:
While we're on the subjecto f jacklines and tethers, how many of you have installed lifelines on your M17's? Joe
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When I ordered Carpe Ventum, I had Bob install a bronze eye pad on the foredeck and in the aft of the cockpit. Jack lines were then run fore and aft, with each run outboard of the side shroud lines. The reason for having them run on the outside is that if you fell overboard, you would be swept to the stern, where a swim platform and boarding ladder was located. -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Joe Murphy Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:11 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: M_Boats: jacklines and lifelines. While we're on the subjecto f jacklines and tethers, how many of you have installed lifelines on your M17's? Joe _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
I've been aboard a 17 with lifelines and I personally consider them a serious safety *hazard* rather than a help on a 17 because they make it quite tricky to go forward without getting tangled in them, thanks to the narrow side decks. If I had a 17 with them, they would quickly come off. My 2 cents. Tod Mills M17 #408, 1987 galley model BuscaBrisas
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Joe Murphy Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:11 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: M_Boats: jacklines and lifelines.
While we're on the subjecto f jacklines and tethers, how many of you have installed lifelines on your M17's? Joe
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I agree with your assessment. If I were doing something stupid like sailing the Northern California coast alone at night, I might tie a line between the mast base and the bow cleat, and wear a harness attached to it if I really had to go forward. Maybe that's why I went from being a confirmed hanked-on jib type to a furler enthusiast. Mine even seems to resist jamming if I reel it up a few turns in foul weather (of course, we all understand this means "so far"). By the way, has anyone sailed from San Diego to Cabo San Lucas in a 15 or 17? I did it in comfort in my Nor'Sea 27, but I think it would be so cool in a minimalist boat. Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla On Nov 18, 2009, at 10:01 AM, <htmills@zoominternet.net> wrote:
I've been aboard a 17 with lifelines and I personally consider them a serious safety *hazard* rather than a help on a 17 because they make it quite tricky to go forward without getting tangled in them, thanks to the narrow side decks.
If I had a 17 with them, they would quickly come off.
My 2 cents.
Tod Mills M17 #408, 1987 galley model BuscaBrisas
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Joe Murphy Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:11 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: M_Boats: jacklines and lifelines.
While we're on the subjecto f jacklines and tethers, how many of you have installed lifelines on your M17's? Joe
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Tom, When you decide to take the M-17 from CA to Cabo let me know, I wana go too! I have been doing a lot of reading of people going around the world or various parts of it, and it seems no matter how big, new, or prepared the boat all sorts of things break down. I am becoming a great fan of a minimalist boat with no thru hull fittings, no fancy refrigeration, minimal electronics, etc. Unfortunately work and home responsibilities would preclude me from any great sea adventure any time soon, but those kinds of ideas are certainly floating around my head a lot these days. Let's discuss your idea more at Havasu! Jim E M-17 #603 Grace ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Jenkins" <tjenk@gte.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 4:57 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: jacklines and lifelines.
I agree with your assessment. If I were doing something stupid like sailing the Northern California coast alone at night, I might tie a line between the mast base and the bow cleat, and wear a harness attached to it if I really had to go forward. Maybe that's why I went from being a confirmed hanked-on jib type to a furler enthusiast. Mine even seems to resist jamming if I reel it up a few turns in foul weather (of course, we all understand this means "so far").
By the way, has anyone sailed from San Diego to Cabo San Lucas in a 15 or 17? I did it in comfort in my Nor'Sea 27, but I think it would be so cool in a minimalist boat.
Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
On Nov 18, 2009, at 10:01 AM, <htmills@zoominternet.net> wrote:
I've been aboard a 17 with lifelines and I personally consider them a serious safety *hazard* rather than a help on a 17 because they make it quite tricky to go forward without getting tangled in them, thanks to the narrow side decks.
If I had a 17 with them, they would quickly come off.
My 2 cents.
Tod Mills M17 #408, 1987 galley model BuscaBrisas
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Joe Murphy Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:11 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: M_Boats: jacklines and lifelines.
While we're on the subjecto f jacklines and tethers, how many of you have installed lifelines on your M17's? Joe
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participants (11)
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Bill Wickett -
Chad Parrish -
Clarence Andrews -
Conbert H. Benneck -
Gordon Gilbert -
Gordon Gilbert
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htmills＠zoominternet.net -
Jim Ellsworth -
Joe Murphy -
Rick Davies -
Tom Jenkins