I don’t know about the gallows. A difference between Dave Scobie and myself is that he likes lots of gadgets and I like simplicity. I have the greatest respect for Dave- he’s a smart guy and is probably a better all-round sailor than I am. I like all the things that make a boat sail better and faster, and aside from that I like things that make it easier to sail but not at the expense of performance. I’m happy with a mast support that fits in the rudder gudgeons, and as soon as the mast goes up the support goes in the back of my truck, along with the tie-down lines. For you, since you need to lower the mast to go under the bridge, maybe it would work to just keep the mast support on the boat and drop the mast on it. obviously you’d need to sister the rudder gudgeons so you wouldn’t need to unship the rudder. To me, the gallows is weight aloft, and windage, both of which are detrimental to performance. When I anchor I’m perfectly happy to either hook the end of the boom to the backstay triangle, or, in the case of the M-15, which I’ve done some cruising in, using the main halyard, then furling the main on the boom and setting up the cockpit awning over the boom. I can see the value of a gallows on a “real” bluewater boat that will be sitting for days or weeks at anchor, but not a trailerable. I’m going to take the liberty of putting this thread on the M forum; some of those people will have something to say. M-17 owners- be aware that the Sage has the shrouds swept aft since it’s a 7/8 rig, so the M-23-type (also used on many others) of mast stabilizer won’t work as far as I can see. Doesn’t mean that some smart M-15 user, which has the same characteristic, hasn’t some up with a simple and ingenious way to get the job done. If so, hopefully you’ll hear from him/her. Good luck and I’ll get back to you if I come up with anything. From: Erik Stavrand Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 1:27 PM To: jerry@jerrymontgomery.org Subject: Re: Rigging for my boat Hi Jerry, Thanks for the suggestion - it is elegant. I’ll be interested in your thoughts after the race - good luck. Also - I’m thinking I’ll need a boom gallows (or a crutch for the boom and mast). As rigged from Sage can the mast come back with the boom attached? Thanks, Erik Erik Stavrand stavrand@me.com If your dreams don’t scare you they’re not big enough. On May 21, 2018, at 4:06 PM, jerry@jerrymontgomery.org wrote: I'd use the jib halyard rather than the forestay. it might work to attach the halyard to the bow pulpit, then run it back to the winch as usual. You'd still need someone (or something) to keep the mast from going off to one side. I have a race this weekend and I'll think about it. I'm soon going to be 78 and am starting to get weak and wobbly so I need to work out something for my boat before I fall off! -----Original Message----- From: Erik Stavrand Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 5:26 AM To: jerry@jerrymontgomery.org Subject: Rigging for my boat Hi Jerry, I have a Sage 17 and am interested in your recommendation for a rapid mast raising system using the tabernacle. The marina near my house has a railway crossing that I’ll need to go under. Do you think the headstay could be led to a turning block and aft to the cockpit? Thanks in advance for your input! Erik Erik Stavrand 941-661-9609
Jerry, Me too, have kept my rigging simple, the same as you installed in 1985, with a few line and shroud replacements to the original design. Steve M-15 # 335 -----Original Message----- From: jerry@jerrymontgomery.org Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 2:11 PM To: Erik Stavrand ; 'For and abmontgomery forum Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rigging for my boat I don’t know about the gallows. A difference between Dave Scobie and myself is that he likes lots of gadgets and I like simplicity. I have the greatest respect for Dave- he’s a smart guy and is probably a better all-round sailor than I am. I like all the things that make a boat sail better and faster, and aside from that I like things that make it easier to sail but not at the expense of performance. I’m happy with a mast support that fits in the rudder gudgeons, and as soon as the mast goes up the support goes in the back of my truck, along with the tie-down lines. For you, since you need to lower the mast to go under the bridge, maybe it would work to just keep the mast support on the boat and drop the mast on it. obviously you’d need to sister the rudder gudgeons so you wouldn’t need to unship the rudder. To me, the gallows is weight aloft, and windage, both of which are detrimental to performance. When I anchor I’m perfectly happy to either hook the end of the boom to the backstay triangle, or, in the case of the M-15, which I’ve done some cruising in, using the main halyard, then furling the main on the boom and setting up the cockpit awning over the boom. I can see the value of a gallows on a “real” bluewater boat that will be sitting for days or weeks at anchor, but not a trailerable. I’m going to take the liberty of putting this thread on the M forum; some of those people will have something to say. M-17 owners- be aware that the Sage has the shrouds swept aft since it’s a 7/8 rig, so the M-23-type (also used on many others) of mast stabilizer won’t work as far as I can see. Doesn’t mean that some smart M-15 user, which has the same characteristic, hasn’t some up with a simple and ingenious way to get the job done. If so, hopefully you’ll hear from him/her. Good luck and I’ll get back to you if I come up with anything. From: Erik Stavrand Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 1:27 PM To: jerry@jerrymontgomery.org Subject: Re: Rigging for my boat Hi Jerry, Thanks for the suggestion - it is elegant. I’ll be interested in your thoughts after the race - good luck. Also - I’m thinking I’ll need a boom gallows (or a crutch for the boom and mast). As rigged from Sage can the mast come back with the boom attached? Thanks, Erik Erik Stavrand stavrand@me.com If your dreams don’t scare you they’re not big enough. On May 21, 2018, at 4:06 PM, jerry@jerrymontgomery.org wrote: I'd use the jib halyard rather than the forestay. it might work to attach the halyard to the bow pulpit, then run it back to the winch as usual. You'd still need someone (or something) to keep the mast from going off to one side. I have a race this weekend and I'll think about it. I'm soon going to be 78 and am starting to get weak and wobbly so I need to work out something for my boat before I fall off! -----Original Message----- From: Erik Stavrand Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 5:26 AM To: jerry@jerrymontgomery.org Subject: Rigging for my boat Hi Jerry, I have a Sage 17 and am interested in your recommendation for a rapid mast raising system using the tabernacle. The marina near my house has a railway crossing that I’ll need to go under. Do you think the headstay could be led to a turning block and aft to the cockpit? Thanks in advance for your input! Erik Erik Stavrand 941-661-9609
I use a short length of parachute cord from the end of the boom to the mast as a topping lift, so that the boom can't fall and hit someone when the main is dropped. I suppose this adds a few grams of weight aloft and could interfere slightly with airflow on the main, but I doubt it's worth worrying about. I'm also a big fan of simplicity, but adding a topping lift and a jib downhaul to my otherwise unmodified 1981 M15 running rigging makes lowering the sails much easier and safer, especially in rough weather. Sometimes I 'singlehand' with my elderly dog, or someone inexperienced w/ sailing as a passenger, and really don't want them to get hit with the boom before I could rig up a halyard to hold it. Sincerely, Tyler ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Trapp" <stevetrapp@Q.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 3:42:13 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rigging for my boat Jerry, Me too, have kept my rigging simple, the same as you installed in 1985, with a few line and shroud replacements to the original design. Steve M-15 # 335 -----Original Message----- From: jerry@jerrymontgomery.org Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 2:11 PM To: Erik Stavrand ; 'For and abmontgomery forum Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rigging for my boat I don’t know about the gallows. A difference between Dave Scobie and myself is that he likes lots of gadgets and I like simplicity. I have the greatest respect for Dave- he’s a smart guy and is probably a better all-round sailor than I am. I like all the things that make a boat sail better and faster, and aside from that I like things that make it easier to sail but not at the expense of performance. I’m happy with a mast support that fits in the rudder gudgeons, and as soon as the mast goes up the support goes in the back of my truck, along with the tie-down lines. For you, since you need to lower the mast to go under the bridge, maybe it would work to just keep the mast support on the boat and drop the mast on it. obviously you’d need to sister the rudder gudgeons so you wouldn’t need to unship the rudder. To me, the gallows is weight aloft, and windage, both of which are detrimental to performance. When I anchor I’m perfectly happy to either hook the end of the boom to the backstay triangle, or, in the case of the M-15, which I’ve done some cruising in, using the main halyard, then furling the main on the boom and setting up the cockpit awning over the boom. I can see the value of a gallows on a “real” bluewater boat that will be sitting for days or weeks at anchor, but not a trailerable. I’m going to take the liberty of putting this thread on the M forum; some of those people will have something to say. M-17 owners- be aware that the Sage has the shrouds swept aft since it’s a 7/8 rig, so the M-23-type (also used on many others) of mast stabilizer won’t work as far as I can see. Doesn’t mean that some smart M-15 user, which has the same characteristic, hasn’t some up with a simple and ingenious way to get the job done. If so, hopefully you’ll hear from him/her. Good luck and I’ll get back to you if I come up with anything. From: Erik Stavrand Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 1:27 PM To: jerry@jerrymontgomery.org Subject: Re: Rigging for my boat Hi Jerry, Thanks for the suggestion - it is elegant. I’ll be interested in your thoughts after the race - good luck. Also - I’m thinking I’ll need a boom gallows (or a crutch for the boom and mast). As rigged from Sage can the mast come back with the boom attached? Thanks, Erik Erik Stavrand stavrand@me.com If your dreams don’t scare you they’re not big enough. On May 21, 2018, at 4:06 PM, jerry@jerrymontgomery.org wrote: I'd use the jib halyard rather than the forestay. it might work to attach the halyard to the bow pulpit, then run it back to the winch as usual. You'd still need someone (or something) to keep the mast from going off to one side. I have a race this weekend and I'll think about it. I'm soon going to be 78 and am starting to get weak and wobbly so I need to work out something for my boat before I fall off! -----Original Message----- From: Erik Stavrand Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 5:26 AM To: jerry@jerrymontgomery.org Subject: Rigging for my boat Hi Jerry, I have a Sage 17 and am interested in your recommendation for a rapid mast raising system using the tabernacle. The marina near my house has a railway crossing that I’ll need to go under. Do you think the headstay could be led to a turning block and aft to the cockpit? Thanks in advance for your input! Erik Erik Stavrand 941-661-9609
Hank on jib...I use the jib halyard to assist in raising the mast, through the jib downhaul block at the stemhead, run back through the jib halyard cam cleat. I push the mast upright, then cleat the halyard off and go forward and attach the forestay, return the halyard to the jib, route the jib down haul through its turning block to the jib head, go back to the mast and reave the jib halyard tail through the turning block at the base of the mast, then through the cam cleat. Good luck. Will Sent from my iPad
On May 22, 2018, at 09:01, casioqv@usermail.com wrote:
I use a short length of parachute cord from the end of the boom to the mast as a topping lift, so that the boom can't fall and hit someone when the main is dropped. I suppose this adds a few grams of weight aloft and could interfere slightly with airflow on the main, but I doubt it's worth worrying about.
I'm also a big fan of simplicity, but adding a topping lift and a jib downhaul to my otherwise unmodified 1981 M15 running rigging makes lowering the sails much easier and safer, especially in rough weather. Sometimes I 'singlehand' with my elderly dog, or someone inexperienced w/ sailing as a passenger, and really don't want them to get hit with the boom before I could rig up a halyard to hold it.
Sincerely, Tyler
----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Trapp" <stevetrapp@Q.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 3:42:13 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rigging for my boat
Jerry, Me too, have kept my rigging simple, the same as you installed in 1985, with a few line and shroud replacements to the original design. Steve M-15 # 335
-----Original Message----- From: jerry@jerrymontgomery.org Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 2:11 PM To: Erik Stavrand ; 'For and abmontgomery forum Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rigging for my boat
I don’t know about the gallows. A difference between Dave Scobie and myself is that he likes lots of gadgets and I like simplicity. I have the greatest respect for Dave- he’s a smart guy and is probably a better all-round sailor than I am. I like all the things that make a boat sail better and faster, and aside from that I like things that make it easier to sail but not at the expense of performance. I’m happy with a mast support that fits in the rudder gudgeons, and as soon as the mast goes up the support goes in the back of my truck, along with the tie-down lines. For you, since you need to lower the mast to go under the bridge, maybe it would work to just keep the mast support on the boat and drop the mast on it. obviously you’d need to sister the rudder gudgeons so you wouldn’t need to unship the rudder. To me, the gallows is weight aloft, and windage, both of which are detrimental to performance. When I anchor I’m perfectly happy to either hook the end of the boom to the backstay triangle, or, in the case of the M-15, which I’ve done some cruising in, using the main halyard, then furling the main on the boom and setting up the cockpit awning over the boom. I can see the value of a gallows on a “real” bluewater boat that will be sitting for days or weeks at anchor, but not a trailerable.
I’m going to take the liberty of putting this thread on the M forum; some of those people will have something to say. M-17 owners- be aware that the Sage has the shrouds swept aft since it’s a 7/8 rig, so the M-23-type (also used on many others) of mast stabilizer won’t work as far as I can see. Doesn’t mean that some smart M-15 user, which has the same characteristic, hasn’t some up with a simple and ingenious way to get the job done. If so, hopefully you’ll hear from him/her. Good luck and I’ll get back to you if I come up with anything.
From: Erik Stavrand Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 1:27 PM To: jerry@jerrymontgomery.org Subject: Re: Rigging for my boat
Hi Jerry,
Thanks for the suggestion - it is elegant. I’ll be interested in your thoughts after the race - good luck.
Also - I’m thinking I’ll need a boom gallows (or a crutch for the boom and mast). As rigged from Sage can the mast come back with the boom attached?
Thanks,
Erik
Erik Stavrand stavrand@me.com
If your dreams don’t scare you they’re not big enough.
On May 21, 2018, at 4:06 PM, jerry@jerrymontgomery.org wrote:
I'd use the jib halyard rather than the forestay. it might work to attach the halyard to the bow pulpit, then run it back to the winch as usual. You'd still need someone (or something) to keep the mast from going off to one side. I have a race this weekend and I'll think about it. I'm soon going to be 78 and am starting to get weak and wobbly so I need to work out something for my boat before I fall off!
-----Original Message----- From: Erik Stavrand Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 5:26 AM To: jerry@jerrymontgomery.org Subject: Rigging for my boat
Hi Jerry,
I have a Sage 17 and am interested in your recommendation for a rapid mast raising system using the tabernacle. The marina near my house has a railway crossing that I’ll need to go under. Do you think the headstay could be led to a turning block and aft to the cockpit?
Thanks in advance for your input!
Erik
Erik Stavrand 941-661-9609
Agree with Jerry, use the jib halyard not the forestay. One good reason being,you need to detach and re-attach the forestay when lowering/raising mast, so you want the tension of raising and lowering on something else, not on the forestay. Otherwise...what's holding the mast up, while you detach the forestay to lower or reattach it after raising? How do you get a little slack in the forestay to get it connected? On my M-17 I raise/lower using jib halyard and additional line/tackle, with attachment point forward being the bow pulpit. To lower I just use a line (clipped to jib halyard) with friction turns around a winch, I can reach up & lower the mast weight OK myself from rear of cockpit when the line gets too low angle to work. To raise I put my mainsheet tackle in the system. Boom block clips to jib halyard. Traveler block with cam cleat clips to bow pulpit. That way the cam cleat works to hold the raising line as I go up, I can pause going up, move feet or hands, etc. any time with the line held by the cam. Also agree about simplicity...I like to keep my systems as simple as possible to meet the essential needs. Less is more, as the saying goes...less to tangle or trip over, less to maintain, less to take out and put away, clean, dry, etc. cheers, John S. On 05/21/2018 02:11 PM, jerry@jerrymontgomery.org wrote:
I don’t know about the gallows. A difference between Dave Scobie and myself is that he likes lots of gadgets and I like simplicity. I have the greatest respect for Dave- he’s a smart guy and is probably a better all-round sailor than I am. I like all the things that make a boat sail better and faster, and aside from that I like things that make it easier to sail but not at the expense of performance. I’m happy with a mast support that fits in the rudder gudgeons, and as soon as the mast goes up the support goes in the back of my truck, along with the tie-down lines. For you, since you need to lower the mast to go under the bridge, maybe it would work to just keep the mast support on the boat and drop the mast on it. obviously you’d need to sister the rudder gudgeons so you wouldn’t need to unship the rudder. To me, the gallows is weight aloft, and windage, both of which are detrimental to performance. When I anchor I’m perfectly happy to either hook the end of the boom to the backstay triangle, or, in the case of the M-15, which I’ve done some cruising in, using the main halyard, then furling the main on the boom and setting up the cockpit awning over the boom. I can see the value of a gallows on a “real” bluewater boat that will be sitting for days or weeks at anchor, but not a trailerable.
I’m going to take the liberty of putting this thread on the M forum; some of those people will have something to say. M-17 owners- be aware that the Sage has the shrouds swept aft since it’s a 7/8 rig, so the M-23-type (also used on many others) of mast stabilizer won’t work as far as I can see. Doesn’t mean that some smart M-15 user, which has the same characteristic, hasn’t some up with a simple and ingenious way to get the job done. If so, hopefully you’ll hear from him/her. Good luck and I’ll get back to you if I come up with anything.
From: Erik Stavrand Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 1:27 PM To: jerry@jerrymontgomery.org Subject: Re: Rigging for my boat
Hi Jerry,
Thanks for the suggestion - it is elegant. I’ll be interested in your thoughts after the race - good luck.
Also - I’m thinking I’ll need a boom gallows (or a crutch for the boom and mast). As rigged from Sage can the mast come back with the boom attached?
Thanks,
Erik
Erik Stavrand stavrand@me.com
If your dreams don’t scare you they’re not big enough.
On May 21, 2018, at 4:06 PM, jerry@jerrymontgomery.org wrote:
I'd use the jib halyard rather than the forestay. it might work to attach the halyard to the bow pulpit, then run it back to the winch as usual. You'd still need someone (or something) to keep the mast from going off to one side. I have a race this weekend and I'll think about it. I'm soon going to be 78 and am starting to get weak and wobbly so I need to work out something for my boat before I fall off!
-----Original Message----- From: Erik Stavrand Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 5:26 AM To: jerry@jerrymontgomery.org Subject: Rigging for my boat
Hi Jerry,
I have a Sage 17 and am interested in your recommendation for a rapid mast raising system using the tabernacle. The marina near my house has a railway crossing that I’ll need to go under. Do you think the headstay could be led to a turning block and aft to the cockpit?
Thanks in advance for your input!
Erik
Erik Stavrand 941-661-9609
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
I am replacing the centerboard stop pin in my M17. It was busted out and long gone. I’ve finished the keel repair and am ready to drill the hole and install the SS pin that acts as a stop for the centerboard. I understand it’s 3/8” dia x about 3” long. Was there anything special about these, or will any 3/8” x the correct length SS bolt work? I do not intend to counter boar the holes. I don’t want to take away any more meat. It already busted out once, before I owed it. I don’t know if the original one was counter boarded or not. The pivot pin is. Any thoughts? Thanks. I’m not sure how to post things to the sight in general. I just replied to one of the emails. Gary Froeschner Columbia, MO M17 – hall #095 Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: jerry@jerrymontgomery.org Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 3:17 PM To: Erik Stavrand; 'For and abmontgomery forum Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rigging for my boat I don’t know about the gallows. A difference between Dave Scobie and myself is that he likes lots of gadgets and I like simplicity. I have the greatest respect for Dave- he’s a smart guy and is probably a better all-round sailor than I am. I like all the things that make a boat sail better and faster, and aside from that I like things that make it easier to sail but not at the expense of performance. I’m happy with a mast support that fits in the rudder gudgeons, and as soon as the mast goes up the support goes in the back of my truck, along with the tie-down lines. For you, since you need to lower the mast to go under the bridge, maybe it would work to just keep the mast support on the boat and drop the mast on it. obviously you’d need to sister the rudder gudgeons so you wouldn’t need to unship the rudder. To me, the gallows is weight aloft, and windage, both of which are detrimental to performance. When I anchor I’m perfectly happy to either hook the end of the boom to the backstay triangle, or, in the case of the M-15, which I’ve done some cruising in, using the main halyard, then furling the main on the boom and setting up the cockpit awning over the boom. I can see the value of a gallows on a “real” bluewater boat that will be sitting for days or weeks at anchor, but not a trailerable. I’m going to take the liberty of putting this thread on the M forum; some of those people will have something to say. M-17 owners- be aware that the Sage has the shrouds swept aft since it’s a 7/8 rig, so the M-23-type (also used on many others) of mast stabilizer won’t work as far as I can see. Doesn’t mean that some smart M-15 user, which has the same characteristic, hasn’t some up with a simple and ingenious way to get the job done. If so, hopefully you’ll hear from him/her. Good luck and I’ll get back to you if I come up with anything. From: Erik Stavrand Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 1:27 PM To: jerry@jerrymontgomery.org Subject: Re: Rigging for my boat Hi Jerry, Thanks for the suggestion - it is elegant. I’ll be interested in your thoughts after the race - good luck. Also - I’m thinking I’ll need a boom gallows (or a crutch for the boom and mast). As rigged from Sage can the mast come back with the boom attached? Thanks, Erik Erik Stavrand stavrand@me.com If your dreams don’t scare you they’re not big enough. On May 21, 2018, at 4:06 PM, jerry@jerrymontgomery.org wrote: I'd use the jib halyard rather than the forestay. it might work to attach the halyard to the bow pulpit, then run it back to the winch as usual. You'd still need someone (or something) to keep the mast from going off to one side. I have a race this weekend and I'll think about it. I'm soon going to be 78 and am starting to get weak and wobbly so I need to work out something for my boat before I fall off! -----Original Message----- From: Erik Stavrand Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 5:26 AM To: jerry@jerrymontgomery.org Subject: Rigging for my boat Hi Jerry, I have a Sage 17 and am interested in your recommendation for a rapid mast raising system using the tabernacle. The marina near my house has a railway crossing that I’ll need to go under. Do you think the headstay could be led to a turning block and aft to the cockpit? Thanks in advance for your input! Erik Erik Stavrand 941-661-9609
Gary, Countersinking the bolt will weaken what is left down there and will not effect your speed at all. What I did when I changed mine out was, bought a piece of 3/8 inch reinforced rubber fuel line from an auto supply. It was as long as the width of your centerboard slot. As I slid the new bolt through the holes I made sure the bolt also ran through the center of that piece of reinforced rubber fuel line. What this does is wraps your pin with rubber. It makes a big difference in cushioning the impact of your centerboard against that pin and helps preserve the fiberglass, etc. there. If you want to enhance the shock absorbing effect get another piece of hose the same length as the 3/8 inch fuel line with an inside diameter that will fit snugly over the 3/8 inch fuel line. Install the pin through both these rubber hoses. You will have to cut a "V" in the outer one to clear the aft edge of the centerboard but if you do that you will add another layer of shock absorbing rubber on the top of the bolt which is where you want it. Make sure the "V" you cut in the outer hose section will easily clear the trailing edge of the centerboard so it will not be spun by the centerboard as you raise or lower it, thus binding your board. I have used only the one hose but now when I lower the board instead of feeling/hearing a solid "thunk!" I don't hear anything at all. Just the soft landing of the board against the pin. Fair winds, Tom Buzzi, Monty 17, "AS-IS". 1977 #258 On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 9:34 PM, Gary Froeschner <gfroesch@socket.net> wrote:
I am replacing the centerboard stop pin in my M17. It was busted out and long gone. I’ve finished the keel repair and am ready to drill the hole and install the SS pin that acts as a stop for the centerboard. I understand it’s 3/8” dia x about 3” long. Was there anything special about these, or will any 3/8” x the correct length SS bolt work?
I do not intend to counter boar the holes. I don’t want to take away any more meat. It already busted out once, before I owed it. I don’t know if the original one was counter boarded or not. The pivot pin is. Any thoughts?
Thanks. I’m not sure how to post things to the sight in general. I just replied to one of the emails.
Gary Froeschner Columbia, MO M17 – hall #095
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: jerry@jerrymontgomery.org Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 3:17 PM To: Erik Stavrand; 'For and abmontgomery forum Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rigging for my boat
I don’t know about the gallows. A difference between Dave Scobie and myself is that he likes lots of gadgets and I like simplicity. I have the greatest respect for Dave- he’s a smart guy and is probably a better all-round sailor than I am. I like all the things that make a boat sail better and faster, and aside from that I like things that make it easier to sail but not at the expense of performance. I’m happy with a mast support that fits in the rudder gudgeons, and as soon as the mast goes up the support goes in the back of my truck, along with the tie-down lines. For you, since you need to lower the mast to go under the bridge, maybe it would work to just keep the mast support on the boat and drop the mast on it. obviously you’d need to sister the rudder gudgeons so you wouldn’t need to unship the rudder. To me, the gallows is weight aloft, and windage, both of which are detrimental to performance. When I anchor I’m perfectly happy to either hook the end of the boom to the backstay triangle, or, in the case of the M-15, which I’ve done some cruising in, using the main halyard, then furling the main on the boom and setting up the cockpit awning over the boom. I can see the value of a gallows on a “real” bluewater boat that will be sitting for days or weeks at anchor, but not a trailerable.
I’m going to take the liberty of putting this thread on the M forum; some of those people will have something to say. M-17 owners- be aware that the Sage has the shrouds swept aft since it’s a 7/8 rig, so the M-23-type (also used on many others) of mast stabilizer won’t work as far as I can see. Doesn’t mean that some smart M-15 user, which has the same characteristic, hasn’t some up with a simple and ingenious way to get the job done. If so, hopefully you’ll hear from him/her. Good luck and I’ll get back to you if I come up with anything.
From: Erik Stavrand Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 1:27 PM To: jerry@jerrymontgomery.org Subject: Re: Rigging for my boat
Hi Jerry,
Thanks for the suggestion - it is elegant. I’ll be interested in your thoughts after the race - good luck.
Also - I’m thinking I’ll need a boom gallows (or a crutch for the boom and mast). As rigged from Sage can the mast come back with the boom attached?
Thanks,
Erik
Erik Stavrand stavrand@me.com
If your dreams don’t scare you they’re not big enough.
On May 21, 2018, at 4:06 PM, jerry@jerrymontgomery.org wrote:
I'd use the jib halyard rather than the forestay. it might work to attach the halyard to the bow pulpit, then run it back to the winch as usual. You'd still need someone (or something) to keep the mast from going off to one side. I have a race this weekend and I'll think about it. I'm soon going to be 78 and am starting to get weak and wobbly so I need to work out something for my boat before I fall off!
-----Original Message----- From: Erik Stavrand Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 5:26 AM To: jerry@jerrymontgomery.org Subject: Rigging for my boat
Hi Jerry,
I have a Sage 17 and am interested in your recommendation for a rapid mast raising system using the tabernacle. The marina near my house has a railway crossing that I’ll need to go under. Do you think the headstay could be led to a turning block and aft to the cockpit?
Thanks in advance for your input!
Erik
Erik Stavrand 941-661-9609
I had to redo that area on my M17 also (#38). I countersunk the hex head end of the bolt, but not the nut end. The head is fairly thin so it's a small countersink. The nut end, being a nylon insert locknut, would be about twice as deep a countersink so for now it just snugs down against the keel surface. I might partially countersink it at some point. I would keep some of the flats exposed in order to be able to get a wrench or socket on it. Otherwise I'd have to make the countersink hole wide enough to get a socket into and I'd rather minimize the removal of material in that area. I also did what Tom mentioned, put a piece of 3/8" ID fuel hose on the bolt. NOTE that this is a minor cushioning measure to avoid the metal on metal at CB and stop pin. If one drops the early model very heavy CB with "too much" force the pin will bust out regardless of fuel hose or no fuel hose. cheers, John S. On 05/22/2018 07:34 PM, Gary Froeschner wrote:
I am replacing the centerboard stop pin in my M17. It was busted out and long gone. I’ve finished the keel repair and am ready to drill the hole and install the SS pin that acts as a stop for the centerboard. I understand it’s 3/8” dia x about 3” long. Was there anything special about these, or will any 3/8” x the correct length SS bolt work?
I do not intend to counter boar the holes. I don’t want to take away any more meat. It already busted out once, before I owed it. I don’t know if the original one was counter boarded or not. The pivot pin is. Any thoughts?
Thanks. I’m not sure how to post things to the sight in general. I just replied to one of the emails.
Gary Froeschner Columbia, MO M17 – hall #095
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: jerry@jerrymontgomery.org Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 3:17 PM To: Erik Stavrand; 'For and abmontgomery forum Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rigging for my boat
I don’t know about the gallows. A difference between Dave Scobie and myself is that he likes lots of gadgets and I like simplicity. I have the greatest respect for Dave- he’s a smart guy and is probably a better all-round sailor than I am. I like all the things that make a boat sail better and faster, and aside from that I like things that make it easier to sail but not at the expense of performance. I’m happy with a mast support that fits in the rudder gudgeons, and as soon as the mast goes up the support goes in the back of my truck, along with the tie-down lines. For you, since you need to lower the mast to go under the bridge, maybe it would work to just keep the mast support on the boat and drop the mast on it. obviously you’d need to sister the rudder gudgeons so you wouldn’t need to unship the rudder. To me, the gallows is weight aloft, and windage, both of which are detrimental to performance. When I anchor I’m perfectly happy to either hook the end of the boom to the backstay triangle, or, in the case of the M-15, which I’ve done some cruising in, using the main halyard, then furling the main on the boom and setting up the cockpit awning over the boom. I can see the value of a gallows on a “real” bluewater boat that will be sitting for days or weeks at anchor, but not a trailerable.
I’m going to take the liberty of putting this thread on the M forum; some of those people will have something to say. M-17 owners- be aware that the Sage has the shrouds swept aft since it’s a 7/8 rig, so the M-23-type (also used on many others) of mast stabilizer won’t work as far as I can see. Doesn’t mean that some smart M-15 user, which has the same characteristic, hasn’t some up with a simple and ingenious way to get the job done. If so, hopefully you’ll hear from him/her. Good luck and I’ll get back to you if I come up with anything.
From: Erik Stavrand Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 1:27 PM To: jerry@jerrymontgomery.org Subject: Re: Rigging for my boat
Hi Jerry,
Thanks for the suggestion - it is elegant. I’ll be interested in your thoughts after the race - good luck.
Also - I’m thinking I’ll need a boom gallows (or a crutch for the boom and mast). As rigged from Sage can the mast come back with the boom attached?
Thanks,
Erik
Erik Stavrand stavrand@me.com
If your dreams don’t scare you they’re not big enough.
On May 21, 2018, at 4:06 PM, jerry@jerrymontgomery.org wrote:
I'd use the jib halyard rather than the forestay. it might work to attach the halyard to the bow pulpit, then run it back to the winch as usual. You'd still need someone (or something) to keep the mast from going off to one side. I have a race this weekend and I'll think about it. I'm soon going to be 78 and am starting to get weak and wobbly so I need to work out something for my boat before I fall off!
-----Original Message----- From: Erik Stavrand Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 5:26 AM To: jerry@jerrymontgomery.org Subject: Rigging for my boat
Hi Jerry,
I have a Sage 17 and am interested in your recommendation for a rapid mast raising system using the tabernacle. The marina near my house has a railway crossing that I’ll need to go under. Do you think the headstay could be led to a turning block and aft to the cockpit?
Thanks in advance for your input!
Erik
Erik Stavrand 941-661-9609
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Hi Jerry, Can you shorten the existing uppers and lowers (I believe it is by 6” for quick releases) or do I need to get new ones made? I’m going with simple and will reverse the mast base and use the boom as the gin pole and lengthen the mainsheet. This is the rig I had on my prior boat and it worked great. Thanks, Erik
On May 21, 2018, at 5:11 PM, jerry@jerrymontgomery.org wrote:
I don’t know about the gallows. A difference between Dave Scobie and myself is that he likes lots of gadgets and I like simplicity. I have the greatest respect for Dave- he’s a smart guy and is probably a better all-round sailor than I am. I like all the things that make a boat sail better and faster, and aside from that I like things that make it easier to sail but not at the expense of performance. I’m happy with a mast support that fits in the rudder gudgeons, and as soon as the mast goes up the support goes in the back of my truck, along with the tie-down lines. For you, since you need to lower the mast to go under the bridge, maybe it would work to just keep the mast support on the boat and drop the mast on it. obviously you’d need to sister the rudder gudgeons so you wouldn’t need to unship the rudder. To me, the gallows is weight aloft, and windage, both of which are detrimental to performance. When I anchor I’m perfectly happy to either hook the end of the boom to the backstay triangle, or, in the case of the M-15, which I’ve done some cruising in, using the main halyard, then furling the main on the boom and setting up the cockpit awning over the boom. I can see the value of a gallows on a “real” bluewater boat that will be sitting for days or weeks at anchor, but not a trailerable.
I’m going to take the liberty of putting this thread on the M forum; some of those people will have something to say. M-17 owners- be aware that the Sage has the shrouds swept aft since it’s a 7/8 rig, so the M-23-type (also used on many others) of mast stabilizer won’t work as far as I can see. Doesn’t mean that some smart M-15 user, which has the same characteristic, hasn’t some up with a simple and ingenious way to get the job done. If so, hopefully you’ll hear from him/her. Good luck and I’ll get back to you if I come up with anything.
From: Erik Stavrand Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 1:27 PM To: jerry@jerrymontgomery.org Subject: Re: Rigging for my boat
Hi Jerry,
Thanks for the suggestion - it is elegant. I’ll be interested in your thoughts after the race - good luck.
Also - I’m thinking I’ll need a boom gallows (or a crutch for the boom and mast). As rigged from Sage can the mast come back with the boom attached?
Thanks,
Erik
Erik Stavrand stavrand@me.com
If your dreams don’t scare you they’re not big enough.
On May 21, 2018, at 4:06 PM, jerry@jerrymontgomery.org wrote:
I'd use the jib halyard rather than the forestay. it might work to attach the halyard to the bow pulpit, then run it back to the winch as usual. You'd still need someone (or something) to keep the mast from going off to one side. I have a race this weekend and I'll think about it. I'm soon going to be 78 and am starting to get weak and wobbly so I need to work out something for my boat before I fall off!
-----Original Message----- From: Erik Stavrand Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 5:26 AM To: jerry@jerrymontgomery.org Subject: Rigging for my boat
Hi Jerry,
I have a Sage 17 and am interested in your recommendation for a rapid mast raising system using the tabernacle. The marina near my house has a railway crossing that I’ll need to go under. Do you think the headstay could be led to a turning block and aft to the cockpit?
Thanks in advance for your input!
Erik
Erik Stavrand 941-661-9609
participants (8)
-
casioqv＠usermail.com -
Erik Stavrand -
Gary Froeschner -
jerry＠jerrymontgomery.org -
John Schinnerer -
Steve Trapp -
Thomas Buzzi -
Wilson Frye