So, yesterday had a really nice sail in Tomales Bay, my usual spot. Winds were light to start, and picked up nicely in the afternoon. All the sailing exercises I picked up at the Small Craft Academy I wanted to do I got done. Series of gybes, MOB drills, sailing backwards, standing up while sailing, sailing with my legs, all good stuff. Now came the anchoring. Perfect conditions. Wind a bit off the shore, shallow enough. So, I got out my Danforth and my new rectangular container complete with 80 feet of flaked rode in a figure 8. So far so good. I couldn't figure out if I dropped from the cockpit whether I should keep the line inside our outside the shrouds and pulpit. I elected inside, which was a mistake. In any event, dropped fine, backed the boat up with wind, set the anchor, and all was well. I walked forward and cleated off on the bow cleat. Had a nice lunch. Now for the fun part. Time to haul anchor. So, I raised the main to cock into the wind, walked forward and grabbed the rode, and pulled hand over hand forward. I easily raised the anchor, along with 20 pounds of reeds. So, I shook those off. In the meantime, the boat was sailing down wind happily without me steering. Now, I managed to wrap tons of rode around various things as I tried to deal with the line. I really looked like Inspector Clousseau by the end of it. Line everywhere. Amazing how much entropy there is on a boat. At least is wasn't 200 feet of it. At this point I shook my fists skyward, grabbed the tiller, and heaved to. Now I was stopped. I was able to extricate all of the line and flake it back into the container without hanging myself accidentally from the boom, stowed it all, and sailed off. Geez. I'm glad nobody was filming. Next time I will run the stuff all outside the shrouds and pulpit, leave the sails down, and try again. I've got a ways to go on that one. Daniel
Daniel, You might want to checked Utube first, just to make sure!! Lol Skip On Sep 17, 2012, at 12:04 PM, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
So, yesterday had a really nice sail in Tomales Bay, my usual spot. Winds were light to start, and picked up nicely in the afternoon. All the sailing exercises I picked up at the Small Craft Academy I wanted to do I got done. Series of gybes, MOB drills, sailing backwards, standing up while sailing, sailing with my legs, all good stuff. Now came the anchoring. Perfect conditions. Wind a bit off the shore, shallow enough. So, I got out my Danforth and my new rectangular container complete with 80 feet of flaked rode in a figure 8. So far so good. I couldn't figure out if I dropped from the cockpit whether I should keep the line inside our outside the shrouds and pulpit. I elected inside, which was a mistake. In any event, dropped fine, backed the boat up with wind, set the anchor, and all was well. I walked forward and cleated off on the bow cleat. Had a nice lunch. Now for the fun part. Time to haul anchor. So, I raised the main to cock into the wind, walked forward and grabbed the rode, and pulled hand over hand forward. I easily raised the anchor, along with 20 pounds of reeds. So, I shook those off. In the meantime, the boat was sailing down wind happily without me steering. Now, I managed to wrap tons of rode around various things as I tried to deal with the line. I really looked like Inspector Clousseau by the end of it. Line everywhere. Amazing how much entropy there is on a boat. At least is wasn't 200 feet of it. At this point I shook my fists skyward, grabbed the tiller, and heaved to. Now I was stopped. I was able to extricate all of the line and flake it back into the container without hanging myself accidentally from the boom, stowed it all, and sailed off. Geez. I'm glad nobody was filming. Next time I will run the stuff all outside the shrouds and pulpit, leave the sails down, and try again. I've got a ways to go on that one.
Daniel
Oooh. I hope not. Daniel On 9/17/2012 9:32 AM, William Campion wrote:
Daniel, You might want to checked Utube first, just to make sure!! Lol
Skip
On Sep 17, 2012, at 12:04 PM, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
So, yesterday had a really nice sail in Tomales Bay, my usual spot. Winds were light to start, and picked up nicely in the afternoon. All the sailing exercises I picked up at the Small Craft Academy I wanted to do I got done. Series of gybes, MOB drills, sailing backwards, standing up while sailing, sailing with my legs, all good stuff. Now came the anchoring. Perfect conditions. Wind a bit off the shore, shallow enough. So, I got out my Danforth and my new rectangular container complete with 80 feet of flaked rode in a figure 8. So far so good. I couldn't figure out if I dropped from the cockpit whether I should keep the line inside our outside the shrouds and pulpit. I elected inside, which was a mistake. In any event, dropped fine, backed the boat up with wind, set the anchor, and all was well. I walked forward and cleated off on the bow cleat. Had a nice lunch. Now for the fun part. Time to haul anchor. So, I raised the main to cock into the wind, walked forward and grabbed the rode, and pulled hand over hand forward. I easily raised the anchor, along with 20 pounds of reeds. So, I shook those off. In the meantime, the boat was sailing down wind happily without me steering. Now, I managed to wrap tons of rode around various things as I tried to deal with the line. I really looked like Inspector Clousseau by the end of it. Line everywhere. Amazing how much entropy there is on a boat. At least is wasn't 200 feet of it. At this point I shook my fists skyward, grabbed the tiller, and heaved to. Now I was stopped. I was able to extricate all of the line and flake it back into the container without hanging myself accidentally from the boom, stowed it all, and sailed off. Geez. I'm glad nobody was filming. Next time I will run the stuff all outside the shrouds and pulpit, leave the sails down, and try again. I've got a ways to go on that one.
Daniel
Well iy sounds like you had quite a productive day. Kudus on sailing it backwards. I still can't make my boat sail backwards unless of course I want to go forwards.. Regarding your anchoring. I try never to deploy or retrieve my anchor from the bow. On the M17 there just doesn't seem to have enough deck space to manage everything so I prefer to do it all from the cockpit. That's why I first I drop anchor off the stern and cleat off on the stern cleat. Now I'm anchored and secured. Once I'm happy with the hold then I walk the rode bag on the outside of shrouds and rails. I cleat it off on the bow cleat and then walk my riode bag back the same way I came forward . When I get back to the cockpit I release the anchor line from the stern cleat. In essence you've added 17' of scope to your rode. The important thing I do next is to cleat off the line from the bag to the stern cleat. This serves as a safety backup and it makes it easy when I pull anchor. When it come time to pull anchor, all I have to do forward is to uncleat the line at the bow cleat and go back to the cockpit. Since I'm still cleated off at the stern I can work the boat into whatever position I like and then pull everthing back in from the cockpit. I put my bag or crate on the cockpit sole and hold the rode up in my left hand and keep it there. I pull the rode through my left hand with the right and lay it into the crate in whatever random fall it takes. In eight years I've never had a tangle. If you think about it, basically it's the same thing you'd be doing if you ran your rode down into an anchor locker. The only time I ever used the figure 8 routine was on a large gaff rigged schooner with 1" lines used for the throat and peak halyards. Since it was too big to coil it was the only way to control the tangles. Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: Daniel Rich To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 12:04 PM Subject: M_Boats: Anchoring Redux So, yesterday had a really nice sail in Tomales Bay, my usual spot. Winds were light to start, and picked up nicely in the afternoon. All the sailing exercises I picked up at the Small Craft Academy I wanted to do I got done. Series of gybes, MOB drills, sailing backwards, standing up while sailing, sailing with my legs, all good stuff. Now came the anchoring. Perfect conditions. Wind a bit off the shore, shallow enough. So, I got out my Danforth and my new rectangular container complete with 80 feet of flaked rode in a figure 8. So far so good. I couldn't figure out if I dropped from the cockpit whether I should keep the line inside our outside the shrouds and pulpit. I elected inside, which was a mistake. In any event, dropped fine, backed the boat up with wind, set the anchor, and all was well. I walked forward and cleated off on the bow cleat. Had a nice lunch. Now for the fun part. Time to haul anchor. So, I raised the main to cock into the wind, walked forward and grabbed the rode, and pulled hand over hand forward. I easily raised the anchor, along with 20 pounds of reeds. So, I shook those off. In the meantime, the boat was sailing down wind happily without me steering. Now, I managed to wrap tons of rode around various things as I tried to deal with the line. I really looked like Inspector Clousseau by the end of it. Line everywhere. Amazing how much entropy there is on a boat. At least is wasn't 200 feet of it. At this point I shook my fists skyward, grabbed the tiller, and heaved to. Now I was stopped. I was able to extricate all of the line and flake it back into the container without hanging myself accidentally from the boom, stowed it all, and sailed off. Geez. I'm glad nobody was filming. Next time I will run the stuff all outside the shrouds and pulpit, leave the sails down, and try again. I've got a ways to go on that one. Daniel
Okay, that is a very clear explanation. I can see the errors of my ways. That is why it is good to try this stuff before you need it. Are you motoring when you do this? I try to do engineless sailing when I can, so that adds another element. Do you sail downwind and round up after making sure the anchor grabs? With regards to sailing backwards, I can do it for a short stretch by back winding the main and the tiller held with the tiller clutch or my legs. I think I could back out of a slip that way. Apparently the British navy required their captains to sail their tall ships around one particular island backwards one full time around as part of their requirements. Howard Rice was commenting on that at our class. Amazing. Daniel On Sep 17, 2012, at 7:33 PM, Joe Murphy <seagray@embarqmail.com> wrote:
Well iy sounds like you had quite a productive day. Kudus on sailing it backwards. I still can't make my boat sail backwards unless of course I want to go forwards.. Regarding your anchoring. I try never to deploy or retrieve my anchor from the bow. On the M17 there just doesn't seem to have enough deck space to manage everything so I prefer to do it all from the cockpit. That's why I first I drop anchor off the stern and cleat off on the stern cleat. Now I'm anchored and secured. Once I'm happy with the hold then I walk the rode bag on the outside of shrouds and rails. I cleat it off on the bow cleat and then walk my riode bag back the same way I came forward . When I get back to the cockpit I release the anchor line from the stern cleat. In essence you've added 17' of scope to your rode. The important thing I do next is to cleat off the line from the bag to the stern cleat. This serves as a safety backup and it makes it easy when I pull anchor. When it come time to pull anchor, all I have to do forward is to uncleat the line at the bow cleat and go back to the cockpit. Since I'm still cleated off at the stern I can work the boat into whatever position I like and then pull everthing back in from the cockpit. I put my bag or crate on the cockpit sole and hold the rode up in my left hand and keep it there. I pull the rode through my left hand with the right and lay it into the crate in whatever random fall it takes. In eight years I've never had a tangle. If you think about it, basically it's the same thing you'd be doing if you ran your rode down into an anchor locker. The only time I ever used the figure 8 routine was on a large gaff rigged schooner with 1" lines used for the throat and peak halyards. Since it was too big to coil it was the only way to control the tangles.
Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: Daniel Rich To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 12:04 PM Subject: M_Boats: Anchoring Redux
So, yesterday had a really nice sail in Tomales Bay, my usual spot. Winds were light to start, and picked up nicely in the afternoon. All the sailing exercises I picked up at the Small Craft Academy I wanted to do I got done. Series of gybes, MOB drills, sailing backwards, standing up while sailing, sailing with my legs, all good stuff. Now came the anchoring. Perfect conditions. Wind a bit off the shore, shallow enough. So, I got out my Danforth and my new rectangular container complete with 80 feet of flaked rode in a figure 8. So far so good. I couldn't figure out if I dropped from the cockpit whether I should keep the line inside our outside the shrouds and pulpit. I elected inside, which was a mistake. In any event, dropped fine, backed the boat up with wind, set the anchor, and all was well. I walked forward and cleated off on the bow cleat. Had a nice lunch. Now for the fun part. Time to haul anchor. So, I raised the main to cock into the wind, walked forward and grabbed the rode, and pulled hand over hand forward. I easily raised the anchor, along with 20 pounds of reeds. So, I shook those off. In the meantime, the boat was sailing down wind happily without me steering. Now, I managed to wrap tons of rode around various things as I tried to deal with the line. I really looked like Inspector Clousseau by the end of it. Line everywhere. Amazing how much entropy there is on a boat. At least is wasn't 200 feet of it. At this point I shook my fists skyward, grabbed the tiller, and heaved to. Now I was stopped. I was able to extricate all of the line and flake it back into the container without hanging myself accidentally from the boom, stowed it all, and sailed off. Geez. I'm glad nobody was filming. Next time I will run the stuff all outside the shrouds and pulpit, leave the sails down, and try again. I've got a ways to go on that one.
Daniel
What Joe said - except for how I store the anchor. Flaking dozens of feet of line into a little bucket takes time but: 1) It keeps gunk in the bucket as opposed to a milk crate or mesh bag which lets everything drip into the bilge. 2) it stows in a smaller space - A milk crate doesn't fit through the port cockpit locker hatch - that leaves the bilge. I'm 6'4" and don't like scrounging around on my knees when I need my anchor in a hurry. 3) I can take a good guess how much line is out by how full the bucket is. 4) it looks shippy. My drop anchor drill goes exactly like Joe's. I'll add that the bitter end of the anchor line is tied to the bucket handle so that it can't wiggle it's way into mischief. My weigh anchor drill goes like this: 1) Put some water on to boil for grits. 2) Get the mainsail ready to go. 3) Uncleat the bow so the boat lies anchored to a stern cleat. 4) Leisurely haul in some line and flake it into the bucket while occasionally glancing at the bikini clad babe sunbathing on the nearby mega-yacht. 4) Leave the boat anchored on as short scope as I dare. 5) Eat grits and do some last minute straightening. 6) Haul in the anchor - at this point I'm anchored mostly by chain and there are only a few feet of line left to deal with. 7) Sail away, making sure to tack near the aforementioned mega-yacht. Having said all that, If I'm anchored in deep water, or if I need to move out smartly, I do just like Joe and dump everything into a large bucket, then make it nice and pretty later. It won't tangle as long as the other end can't get mixed up in the spaghetti. A lot of this stuff is a matter of style shaped by everything from how gross the holding ground is to how good the scenery looks. Anyhoo, thanks for inspiring me to run some practice drills that I've been neglecting. It's a whole lot better to sort this stuff out on a warm summer afternoon then during a midnight squall. Jim M-17 "Spirit" On Sep 17, 2012, at 7:32 PM, Joe Murphy wrote:
Well iy sounds like you had quite a productive day. Kudus on sailing it backwards. I still can't make my boat sail backwards unless of course I want to go forwards.. Regarding your anchoring. I try never to deploy or retrieve my anchor from the bow. On the M17 there just doesn't seem to have enough deck space to manage everything so I prefer to do it all from the cockpit. That's why I first I drop anchor off the stern and cleat off on the stern cleat. Now I'm anchored and secured. Once I'm happy with the hold then I walk the rode bag on the outside of shrouds and rails. I cleat it off on the bow cleat and then walk my riode bag back the same way I came forward . When I get back to the cockpit I release the anchor line from the stern cleat. In essence you've added 17' of scope to your rode. The important thing I do next is to cleat off the line from the bag to the stern cleat. This serves as a safety backup and it makes it easy when I pull anchor. When it come time to pull anchor, all I have to do forward is to uncleat the line at the bow cleat and go back to the cockpit. Since I'm still cleated off at the stern I can work the boat into whatever position I like and then pull everthing back in from the cockpit. I put my bag or crate on the cockpit sole and hold the rode up in my left hand and keep it there. I pull the rode through my left hand with the right and lay it into the crate in whatever random fall it takes. In eight years I've never had a tangle. If you think about it, basically it's the same thing you'd be doing if you ran your rode down into an anchor locker. The only time I ever used the figure 8 routine was on a large gaff rigged schooner with 1" lines used for the throat and peak halyards. Since it was too big to coil it was the only way to control the tangles.
Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: Daniel Rich To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 12:04 PM Subject: M_Boats: Anchoring Redux
So, yesterday had a really nice sail in Tomales Bay, my usual spot. Winds were light to start, and picked up nicely in the afternoon. All the sailing exercises I picked up at the Small Craft Academy I wanted to do I got done. Series of gybes, MOB drills, sailing backwards, standing up while sailing, sailing with my legs, all good stuff. Now came the anchoring. Perfect conditions. Wind a bit off the shore, shallow enough. So, I got out my Danforth and my new rectangular container complete with 80 feet of flaked rode in a figure 8. So far so good. I couldn't figure out if I dropped from the cockpit whether I should keep the line inside our outside the shrouds and pulpit. I elected inside, which was a mistake. In any event, dropped fine, backed the boat up with wind, set the anchor, and all was well. I walked forward and cleated off on the bow cleat. Had a nice lunch. Now for the fun part. Time to haul anchor. So, I raised the main to cock into the wind, walked forward and grabbed the rode, and pulled hand over hand forward. I easily raised the anchor, along with 20 pounds of reeds. So, I shook those off. In the meantime, the boat was sailing down wind happily without me steering. Now, I managed to wrap tons of rode around various things as I tried to deal with the line. I really looked like Inspector Clousseau by the end of it. Line everywhere. Amazing how much entropy there is on a boat. At least is wasn't 200 feet of it. At this point I shook my fists skyward, grabbed the tiller, and heaved to. Now I was stopped. I was able to extricate all of the line and flake it back into the container without hanging myself accidentally from the boom, stowed it all, and sailed off. Geez. I'm glad nobody was filming. Next time I will run the stuff all outside the shrouds and pulpit, leave the sails down, and try again. I've got a ways to go on that one.
Daniel
Just to clarify, I keep my anchor rode mesh bag in a shallow plastic bin in the port locker. I find that the green plastic bins that you find to store Christmas ornaments is perfect. It is wide enough not to wander around in the bilge; long enough to put the anchor and rode in; and, shallow enough to not be in the way. But obviously you have to install it through the cabin. The heavy duty mesh bag has some pros and cons. On the downside putting the rode back into the mesh bag is clumbsy and time consuming. (I'm thinking about cutting the top two inches off a bucket and cinching the bag around it to keep it open. But that's just one more thing to keep on the boat.) On the plus side it flows out very smoothly. I open the throat of the bag big enough for my hand to fit. It has a shoulder strap so it's very easy to walk back and forwards from the bow. I can just throw the bag anywhere on the foredeck or in the cockpit to help with hand holds moving around the boat. The old mantra 'one hand for you and one hand for the boat' is good but two hands on the boat as much as possible works best for this old fat man. When all is done, I can leave the bag on the back cockpit seat and let it drain/dry. The bottom of the bag is heavy duty nylon. I poked a hole in it and pulled out about 4' of the bitter end; put an eye splice in it; and, then cinched up the bottom of the bag around the anchor line real tight and wrapped with whipping line. But like I said, it is a little bit of a chore to stuff the line back into the bag. I may have to go back to WalMart.... Joe SeaFrog M17 ----- Original Message ----- From: James Poulakis To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 1:37 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Anchoring Redux What Joe said - except for how I store the anchor. Flaking dozens of feet of line into a little bucket takes time but: 1) It keeps gunk in the bucket as opposed to a milk crate or mesh bag which lets everything drip into the bilge. 2) it stows in a smaller space - A milk crate doesn't fit through the port cockpit locker hatch - that leaves the bilge. I'm 6'4" and don't like scrounging around on my knees when I need my anchor in a hurry. 3) I can take a good guess how much line is out by how full the bucket is. 4) it looks shippy. My drop anchor drill goes exactly like Joe's. I'll add that the bitter end of the anchor line is tied to the bucket handle so that it can't wiggle it's way into mischief. My weigh anchor drill goes like this: 1) Put some water on to boil for grits. 2) Get the mainsail ready to go. 3) Uncleat the bow so the boat lies anchored to a stern cleat. 4) Leisurely haul in some line and flake it into the bucket while occasionally glancing at the bikini clad babe sunbathing on the nearby mega-yacht. 4) Leave the boat anchored on as short scope as I dare. 5) Eat grits and do some last minute straightening. 6) Haul in the anchor - at this point I'm anchored mostly by chain and there are only a few feet of line left to deal with. 7) Sail away, making sure to tack near the aforementioned mega-yacht. Having said all that, If I'm anchored in deep water, or if I need to move out smartly, I do just like Joe and dump everything into a large bucket, then make it nice and pretty later. It won't tangle as long as the other end can't get mixed up in the spaghetti. A lot of this stuff is a matter of style shaped by everything from how gross the holding ground is to how good the scenery looks. Anyhoo, thanks for inspiring me to run some practice drills that I've been neglecting. It's a whole lot better to sort this stuff out on a warm summer afternoon then during a midnight squall. Jim M-17 "Spirit" On Sep 17, 2012, at 7:32 PM, Joe Murphy wrote:
Well iy sounds like you had quite a productive day. Kudus on sailing it backwards. I still can't make my boat sail backwards unless of course I want to go forwards.. Regarding your anchoring. I try never to deploy or retrieve my anchor from the bow. On the M17 there just doesn't seem to have enough deck space to manage everything so I prefer to do it all from the cockpit. That's why I first I drop anchor off the stern and cleat off on the stern cleat. Now I'm anchored and secured. Once I'm happy with the hold then I walk the rode bag on the outside of shrouds and rails. I cleat it off on the bow cleat and then walk my riode bag back the same way I came forward . When I get back to the cockpit I release the anchor line from the stern cleat. In essence you've added 17' of scope to your rode. The important thing I do next is to cleat off the line from the bag to the stern cleat. This serves as a safety backup and it makes it easy when I pull anchor. When it come time to pull anchor, all I have to do forward is to uncleat the line at the bow cleat and go back to the cockpit. Since I'm still cleated off at the stern I can work the boat into whatever position I like and then pull everthing back in from the cockpit. I put my bag or crate on the cockpit sole and hold the rode up in my left hand and keep it there. I pull the rode through my left hand with the right and lay it into the crate in whatever random fall it takes. In eight years I've never had a tangle. If you think about it, basically it's the same thing you'd be doing if you ran your rode down into an anchor locker. The only time I ever used the figure 8 routine was on a large gaff rigged schooner with 1" lines used for the throat and peak halyards. Since it was too big to coil it was the only way to control the tangles.
Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: Daniel Rich To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 12:04 PM Subject: M_Boats: Anchoring Redux
So, yesterday had a really nice sail in Tomales Bay, my usual spot. Winds were light to start, and picked up nicely in the afternoon. All the sailing exercises I picked up at the Small Craft Academy I wanted to do I got done. Series of gybes, MOB drills, sailing backwards, standing up while sailing, sailing with my legs, all good stuff. Now came the anchoring. Perfect conditions. Wind a bit off the shore, shallow enough. So, I got out my Danforth and my new rectangular container complete with 80 feet of flaked rode in a figure 8. So far so good. I couldn't figure out if I dropped from the cockpit whether I should keep the line inside our outside the shrouds and pulpit. I elected inside, which was a mistake. In any event, dropped fine, backed the boat up with wind, set the anchor, and all was well. I walked forward and cleated off on the bow cleat. Had a nice lunch. Now for the fun part. Time to haul anchor. So, I raised the main to cock into the wind, walked forward and grabbed the rode, and pulled hand over hand forward. I easily raised the anchor, along with 20 pounds of reeds. So, I shook those off. In the meantime, the boat was sailing down wind happily without me steering. Now, I managed to wrap tons of rode around various things as I tried to deal with the line. I really looked like Inspector Clousseau by the end of it. Line everywhere. Amazing how much entropy there is on a boat. At least is wasn't 200 feet of it. At this point I shook my fists skyward, grabbed the tiller, and heaved to. Now I was stopped. I was able to extricate all of the line and flake it back into the container without hanging myself accidentally from the boom, stowed it all, and sailed off. Geez. I'm glad nobody was filming. Next time I will run the stuff all outside the shrouds and pulpit, leave the sails down, and try again. I've got a ways to go on that one.
Daniel
This is all great stuff. Thank all you guys for good ideas. At the Small Craft Skills Academy one thing John Welsford stressed was always "three points of contact" at all times. So, 2 feet, 1 hand, or 2 hands, 1 foot, etc. I took the life lines off my M15 last week. I was of the opinion that they were more cosmetic than anything else, and in a small boat hit you below the knee, where the only thing they will do is trip you entering and leaving the boat. They also just get in the way. I sailed without them last weekend as previously posted, and it was much better. Daniel On 9/20/2012 10:34 AM, Joe Murphy wrote:
Just to clarify, I keep my anchor rode mesh bag in a shallow plastic bin in the port locker. I find that the green plastic bins that you find to store Christmas ornaments is perfect. It is wide enough not to wander around in the bilge; long enough to put the anchor and rode in; and, shallow enough to not be in the way. But obviously you have to install it through the cabin. The heavy duty mesh bag has some pros and cons. On the downside putting the rode back into the mesh bag is clumbsy and time consuming. (I'm thinking about cutting the top two inches off a bucket and cinching the bag around it to keep it open. But that's just one more thing to keep on the boat.) On the plus side it flows out very smoothly. I open the throat of the bag big enough for my hand to fit. It has a shoulder strap so it's very easy to walk back and forwards from the bow. I can just throw the bag anywhere on the foredeck or in the cockpit to help with hand holds moving around the boat. The old mantra 'one hand for you and one hand for the boat' is good but two hands on the boat as much as possible works best for this old fat man. When all is done, I can leave the bag on the back cockpit seat and let it drain/dry. The bottom of the bag is heavy duty nylon. I poked a hole in it and pulled out about 4' of the bitter end; put an eye splice in it; and, then cinched up the bottom of the bag around the anchor line real tight and wrapped with whipping line. But like I said, it is a little bit of a chore to stuff the line back into the bag. I may have to go back to WalMart.... Joe SeaFrog M17 ----- Original Message ----- From: James Poulakis To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 1:37 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Anchoring Redux
What Joe said - except for how I store the anchor. Flaking dozens of feet of line into a little bucket takes time but: 1) It keeps gunk in the bucket as opposed to a milk crate or mesh bag which lets everything drip into the bilge. 2) it stows in a smaller space - A milk crate doesn't fit through the port cockpit locker hatch - that leaves the bilge. I'm 6'4" and don't like scrounging around on my knees when I need my anchor in a hurry. 3) I can take a good guess how much line is out by how full the bucket is. 4) it looks shippy.
My drop anchor drill goes exactly like Joe's. I'll add that the bitter end of the anchor line is tied to the bucket handle so that it can't wiggle it's way into mischief. My weigh anchor drill goes like this: 1) Put some water on to boil for grits. 2) Get the mainsail ready to go. 3) Uncleat the bow so the boat lies anchored to a stern cleat. 4) Leisurely haul in some line and flake it into the bucket while occasionally glancing at the bikini clad babe sunbathing on the nearby mega-yacht. 4) Leave the boat anchored on as short scope as I dare. 5) Eat grits and do some last minute straightening. 6) Haul in the anchor - at this point I'm anchored mostly by chain and there are only a few feet of line left to deal with. 7) Sail away, making sure to tack near the aforementioned mega-yacht.
Having said all that, If I'm anchored in deep water, or if I need to move out smartly, I do just like Joe and dump everything into a large bucket, then make it nice and pretty later. It won't tangle as long as the other end can't get mixed up in the spaghetti.
A lot of this stuff is a matter of style shaped by everything from how gross the holding ground is to how good the scenery looks. Anyhoo, thanks for inspiring me to run some practice drills that I've been neglecting. It's a whole lot better to sort this stuff out on a warm summer afternoon then during a midnight squall.
Jim M-17 "Spirit"
On Sep 17, 2012, at 7:32 PM, Joe Murphy wrote:
Well iy sounds like you had quite a productive day. Kudus on sailing it backwards. I still can't make my boat sail backwards unless of course I want to go forwards.. Regarding your anchoring. I try never to deploy or retrieve my anchor from the bow. On the M17 there just doesn't seem to have enough deck space to manage everything so I prefer to do it all from the cockpit. That's why I first I drop anchor off the stern and cleat off on the stern cleat. Now I'm anchored and secured. Once I'm happy with the hold then I walk the rode bag on the outside of shrouds and rails. I cleat it off on the bow cleat and then walk my riode bag back the same way I came forward . When I get back to the cockpit I release the anchor line from the stern cleat. In essence you've added 17' of scope to your rode. The important thing I do next is to cleat off the line from the bag to the stern cleat. This serves as a safety backup and it makes it easy when I pull anchor. When it come time to pull anchor, all I have to do forward is to uncleat the line at the bow cleat and go back to the cockpit. Since I'm still cleated off at the stern I can work the boat into whatever position I like and then pull everthing back in from the cockpit. I put my bag or crate on the cockpit sole and hold the rode up in my left hand and keep it there. I pull the rode through my left hand with the right and lay it into the crate in whatever random fall it takes. In eight years I've never had a tangle. If you think about it, basically it's the same thing you'd be doing if you ran your rode down into an anchor locker. The only time I ever used the figure 8 routine was on a large gaff rigged schooner with 1" lines used for the throat and peak halyards. Since it was too big to coil it was the only way to control the tangles.
Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: Daniel Rich To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 12:04 PM Subject: M_Boats: Anchoring Redux
So, yesterday had a really nice sail in Tomales Bay, my usual spot. Winds were light to start, and picked up nicely in the afternoon. All the sailing exercises I picked up at the Small Craft Academy I wanted to do I got done. Series of gybes, MOB drills, sailing backwards, standing up while sailing, sailing with my legs, all good stuff. Now came the anchoring. Perfect conditions. Wind a bit off the shore, shallow enough. So, I got out my Danforth and my new rectangular container complete with 80 feet of flaked rode in a figure 8. So far so good. I couldn't figure out if I dropped from the cockpit whether I should keep the line inside our outside the shrouds and pulpit. I elected inside, which was a mistake. In any event, dropped fine, backed the boat up with wind, set the anchor, and all was well. I walked forward and cleated off on the bow cleat. Had a nice lunch. Now for the fun part. Time to haul anchor. So, I raised the main to cock into the wind, walked forward and grabbed the rode, and pulled hand over hand forward. I easily raised the anchor, along with 20 pounds of reeds. So, I shook those off. In the meantime, the boat was sailing down wind happily without me steering. Now, I managed to wrap tons of rode around various things as I tried to deal with the line. I really looked like Inspector Clousseau by the end of it. Line everywhere. Amazing how much entropy there is on a boat. At least is wasn't 200 feet of it. At this point I shook my fists skyward, grabbed the tiller, and heaved to. Now I was stopped. I was able to extricate all of the line and flake it back into the container without hanging myself accidentally from the boom, stowed it all, and sailed off. Geez. I'm glad nobody was filming. Next time I will run the stuff all outside the shrouds and pulpit, leave the sails down, and try again. I've got a ways to go on that one.
Daniel
Does anyone use jack lines on boats of this size? -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Rich Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 10:56 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Anchoring Redux This is all great stuff. Thank all you guys for good ideas. At the Small Craft Skills Academy one thing John Welsford stressed was always "three points of contact" at all times. So, 2 feet, 1 hand, or 2 hands, 1 foot, etc. I took the life lines off my M15 last week. I was of the opinion that they were more cosmetic than anything else, and in a small boat hit you below the knee, where the only thing they will do is trip you entering and leaving the boat. They also just get in the way. I sailed without them last weekend as previously posted, and it was much better.
I have considered 2 reinforced pad-eyes on the cockpit floor for some distance/overnight sailing we would like to do. Hook harness tether to them. On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Gail Russell <gail@zeliga.com> wrote:
Does anyone use jack lines on boats of this size?
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Rich Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 10:56 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Anchoring Redux
This is all great stuff. Thank all you guys for good ideas.
At the Small Craft Skills Academy one thing John Welsford stressed was always "three points of contact" at all times. So, 2 feet, 1 hand, or 2 hands, 1 foot, etc.
I took the life lines off my M15 last week. I was of the opinion that they were more cosmetic than anything else, and in a small boat hit you below the knee, where the only thing they will do is trip you entering and leaving the boat. They also just get in the way. I sailed without them last weekend as previously posted, and it was much better.
I have a reinforced pad eye on my cockpit sole near the centerboard pendant. It clips into a harness I have. If I were on my own in heavy weather, I would clip in for sure. No jack lines on my boat. I would not want to go forward for a head sail change alone like that. I have a jib downhaul and I can douse the jib quickly. Daniel On Sep 20, 2012, at 1:54 PM, Bill Wickett wrote:
I have considered 2 reinforced pad-eyes on the cockpit floor for some distance/overnight sailing we would like to do. Hook harness tether to them.
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Gail Russell <gail@zeliga.com> wrote:
Does anyone use jack lines on boats of this size?
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Rich Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 10:56 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Anchoring Redux
This is all great stuff. Thank all you guys for good ideas.
At the Small Craft Skills Academy one thing John Welsford stressed was always "three points of contact" at all times. So, 2 feet, 1 hand, or 2 hands, 1 foot, etc.
I took the life lines off my M15 last week. I was of the opinion that they were more cosmetic than anything else, and in a small boat hit you below the knee, where the only thing they will do is trip you entering and leaving the boat. They also just get in the way. I sailed without them last weekend as previously posted, and it was much better.
absolutely! Makes life so much simpler. Joe SeaFrog M17 ----- Original Message ----- From: Gail Russell To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 4:31 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Anchoring Redux Does anyone use jack lines on boats of this size? -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Rich Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 10:56 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Anchoring Redux This is all great stuff. Thank all you guys for good ideas. At the Small Craft Skills Academy one thing John Welsford stressed was always "three points of contact" at all times. So, 2 feet, 1 hand, or 2 hands, 1 foot, etc. I took the life lines off my M15 last week. I was of the opinion that they were more cosmetic than anything else, and in a small boat hit you below the knee, where the only thing they will do is trip you entering and leaving the boat. They also just get in the way. I sailed without them last weekend as previously posted, and it was much better.
Ooops. I answered the wrong question. You said Jack Lines. My brain said Lazy Jacks. Backin' up da train now.... JOe SeaFrog M17 ----- Original Message ----- From: Gail Russell To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 4:31 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Anchoring Redux Does anyone use jack lines on boats of this size? -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Rich Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 10:56 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Anchoring Redux This is all great stuff. Thank all you guys for good ideas. At the Small Craft Skills Academy one thing John Welsford stressed was always "three points of contact" at all times. So, 2 feet, 1 hand, or 2 hands, 1 foot, etc. I took the life lines off my M15 last week. I was of the opinion that they were more cosmetic than anything else, and in a small boat hit you below the knee, where the only thing they will do is trip you entering and leaving the boat. They also just get in the way. I sailed without them last weekend as previously posted, and it was much better.
Love the anchor thoughts. Lots very good. Remember chain is good Anchor dilemma. Rope vs chain rodes Charter boats. Mega stuff has all chain The swing of Megas on chain is different then rope rodes. Increased catenary of chain will shorten their turning circle. Some anchor areas get crowded. Swing area is a problem more than keeping your M attached to bottom. Those who do anchor will understand Those with answers should advise San Juan Sailer Wants to buy M17 I sold M15s and 17s for 3 years Great boats Sent from my iPhone On Sep 20, 2012, at 10:34 AM, "Joe Murphy" <seagray@embarqmail.com> wrote:
Just to clarify, I keep my anchor rode mesh bag in a shallow plastic bin in the port locker. I find that the green plastic bins that you find to store Christmas ornaments is perfect. It is wide enough not to wander around in the bilge; long enough to put the anchor and rode in; and, shallow enough to not be in the way. But obviously you have to install it through the cabin. The heavy duty mesh bag has some pros and cons. On the downside putting the rode back into the mesh bag is clumbsy and time consuming. (I'm thinking about cutting the top two inches off a bucket and cinching the bag around it to keep it open. But that's just one more thing to keep on the boat.) On the plus side it flows out very smoothly. I open the throat of the bag big enough for my hand to fit. It has a shoulder strap so it's very easy to walk back and forwards from the bow. I can just throw the bag anywhere on the foredeck or in the cockpit to help with hand holds moving around the boat. The old mantra 'one hand for you and one hand for the boat' is good but two hands on the boat as much as possible works best for this old fat man. When all is done, I can leave the bag on the back cockpit seat and let it drain/dry. The bottom of the bag is heavy duty nylon. I poked a hole in it and pulled out about 4' of the bitter end; put an eye splice in it; and, then cinched up the bottom of the bag around the anchor line real tight and wrapped with whipping line. But like I said, it is a little bit of a chore to stuff the line back into the bag. I may have to go back to WalMart.... Joe SeaFrog M17 ----- Original Message ----- From: James Poulakis To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 1:37 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Anchoring Redux
What Joe said - except for how I store the anchor. Flaking dozens of feet of line into a little bucket takes time but: 1) It keeps gunk in the bucket as opposed to a milk crate or mesh bag which lets everything drip into the bilge. 2) it stows in a smaller space - A milk crate doesn't fit through the port cockpit locker hatch - that leaves the bilge. I'm 6'4" and don't like scrounging around on my knees when I need my anchor in a hurry. 3) I can take a good guess how much line is out by how full the bucket is. 4) it looks shippy.
My drop anchor drill goes exactly like Joe's. I'll add that the bitter end of the anchor line is tied to the bucket handle so that it can't wiggle it's way into mischief. My weigh anchor drill goes like this: 1) Put some water on to boil for grits. 2) Get the mainsail ready to go. 3) Uncleat the bow so the boat lies anchored to a stern cleat. 4) Leisurely haul in some line and flake it into the bucket while occasionally glancing at the bikini clad babe sunbathing on the nearby mega-yacht. 4) Leave the boat anchored on as short scope as I dare. 5) Eat grits and do some last minute straightening. 6) Haul in the anchor - at this point I'm anchored mostly by chain and there are only a few feet of line left to deal with. 7) Sail away, making sure to tack near the aforementioned mega-yacht.
Having said all that, If I'm anchored in deep water, or if I need to move out smartly, I do just like Joe and dump everything into a large bucket, then make it nice and pretty later. It won't tangle as long as the other end can't get mixed up in the spaghetti.
A lot of this stuff is a matter of style shaped by everything from how gross the holding ground is to how good the scenery looks. Anyhoo, thanks for inspiring me to run some practice drills that I've been neglecting. It's a whole lot better to sort this stuff out on a warm summer afternoon then during a midnight squall.
Jim M-17 "Spirit"
On Sep 17, 2012, at 7:32 PM, Joe Murphy wrote:
Well iy sounds like you had quite a productive day. Kudus on sailing it backwards. I still can't make my boat sail backwards unless of course I want to go forwards.. Regarding your anchoring. I try never to deploy or retrieve my anchor from the bow. On the M17 there just doesn't seem to have enough deck space to manage everything so I prefer to do it all from the cockpit. That's why I first I drop anchor off the stern and cleat off on the stern cleat. Now I'm anchored and secured. Once I'm happy with the hold then I walk the rode bag on the outside of shrouds and rails. I cleat it off on the bow cleat and then walk my riode bag back the same way I came forward . When I get back to the cockpit I release the anchor line from the stern cleat. In essence you've added 17' of scope to your rode. The important thing I do next is to cleat off the line from the bag to the stern cleat. This serves as a safety backup and it makes it easy when I pull anchor. When it come time to pull anchor, all I have to do forward is to uncleat the line at the bow cleat and go back to the cockpit. Since I'm still cleated off at the stern I can work the boat into whatever position I like and then pull everthing back in from the cockpit. I put my bag or crate on the cockpit sole and hold the rode up in my left hand and keep it there. I pull the rode through my left hand with the right and lay it into the crate in whatever random fall it takes. In eight years I've never had a tangle. If you think about it, basically it's the same thing you'd be doing if you ran your rode down into an anchor locker. The only time I ever used the figure 8 routine was on a large gaff rigged schooner with 1" lines used for the throat and peak halyards. Since it was too big to coil it was the only way to control the tangles.
Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: Daniel Rich To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 12:04 PM Subject: M_Boats: Anchoring Redux
So, yesterday had a really nice sail in Tomales Bay, my usual spot. Winds were light to start, and picked up nicely in the afternoon. All the sailing exercises I picked up at the Small Craft Academy I wanted to do I got done. Series of gybes, MOB drills, sailing backwards, standing up while sailing, sailing with my legs, all good stuff. Now came the anchoring. Perfect conditions. Wind a bit off the shore, shallow enough. So, I got out my Danforth and my new rectangular container complete with 80 feet of flaked rode in a figure 8. So far so good. I couldn't figure out if I dropped from the cockpit whether I should keep the line inside our outside the shrouds and pulpit. I elected inside, which was a mistake. In any event, dropped fine, backed the boat up with wind, set the anchor, and all was well. I walked forward and cleated off on the bow cleat. Had a nice lunch. Now for the fun part. Time to haul anchor. So, I raised the main to cock into the wind, walked forward and grabbed the rode, and pulled hand over hand forward. I easily raised the anchor, along with 20 pounds of reeds. So, I shook those off. In the meantime, the boat was sailing down wind happily without me steering. Now, I managed to wrap tons of rode around various things as I tried to deal with the line. I really looked like Inspector Clousseau by the end of it. Line everywhere. Amazing how much entropy there is on a boat. At least is wasn't 200 feet of it. At this point I shook my fists skyward, grabbed the tiller, and heaved to. Now I was stopped. I was able to extricate all of the line and flake it back into the container without hanging myself accidentally from the boom, stowed it all, and sailed off. Geez. I'm glad nobody was filming. Next time I will run the stuff all outside the shrouds and pulpit, leave the sails down, and try again. I've got a ways to go on that one.
Daniel
Ladies and Gentlemen: I use a 2.5 gallon bucket, put a 19 x 23-inch mesh dunk bag in it, flake the rode into the bag (it and the bucket will hold 200 feet of 3/8-inch nylon twist rope), then cinch up the bag, dunk the whole thing if needed, let dry some on deck, and stow. GARY ~~~~_/) ~~~~ M17 Hydeaway 2 GARY ~~~~_/) ~~~~ M17 Hydeaway 2 On Sep 19, 2012, at 10:37 PM, James Poulakis <picfo@comcast.net> wrote:
What Joe said - except for how I store the anchor. Flaking dozens of feet of line into a little bucket takes time but: 1) It keeps gunk in the bucket as opposed to a milk crate or mesh bag which lets everything drip into the bilge. 2) it stows in a smaller space - A milk crate doesn't fit through the port cockpit locker hatch - that leaves the bilge. I'm 6'4" and don't like scrounging around on my knees when I need my anchor in a hurry. 3) I can take a good guess how much line is out by how full the bucket is. 4) it looks shippy.
My drop anchor drill goes exactly like Joe's. I'll add that the bitter end of the anchor line is tied to the bucket handle so that it can't wiggle it's way into mischief. My weigh anchor drill goes like this: 1) Put some water on to boil for grits. 2) Get the mainsail ready to go. 3) Uncleat the bow so the boat lies anchored to a stern cleat. 4) Leisurely haul in some line and flake it into the bucket while occasionally glancing at the bikini clad babe sunbathing on the nearby mega-yacht. 4) Leave the boat anchored on as short scope as I dare. 5) Eat grits and do some last minute straightening. 6) Haul in the anchor - at this point I'm anchored mostly by chain and there are only a few feet of line left to deal with. 7) Sail away, making sure to tack near the aforementioned mega-yacht.
Having said all that, If I'm anchored in deep water, or if I need to move out smartly, I do just like Joe and dump everything into a large bucket, then make it nice and pretty later. It won't tangle as long as the other end can't get mixed up in the spaghetti.
A lot of this stuff is a matter of style shaped by everything from how gross the holding ground is to how good the scenery looks. Anyhoo, thanks for inspiring me to run some practice drills that I've been neglecting. It's a whole lot better to sort this stuff out on a warm summer afternoon then during a midnight squall.
Jim M-17 "Spirit"
On Sep 17, 2012, at 7:32 PM, Joe Murphy wrote:
Well iy sounds like you had quite a productive day. Kudus on sailing it backwards. I still can't make my boat sail backwards unless of course I want to go forwards.. Regarding your anchoring. I try never to deploy or retrieve my anchor from the bow. On the M17 there just doesn't seem to have enough deck space to manage everything so I prefer to do it all from the cockpit. That's why I first I drop anchor off the stern and cleat off on the stern cleat. Now I'm anchored and secured. Once I'm happy with the hold then I walk the rode bag on the outside of shrouds and rails. I cleat it off on the bow cleat and then walk my riode bag back the same way I came forward . When I get back to the cockpit I release the anchor line from the stern cleat. In essence you've added 17' of scope to your rode. The important thing I do next is to cleat off the line from the bag to the stern cleat. This serves as a safety backup and it makes it easy when I pull anchor. When it come time to pull anchor, all I have to do forward is to uncleat the line at the bow cleat and go back to the cockpit. Since I'm still cleated off at the stern I can work the boat into whatever position I like and then pull everthing back in from the cockpit. I put my bag or crate on the cockpit sole and hold the rode up in my left hand and keep it there. I pull the rode through my left hand with the right and lay it into the crate in whatever random fall it takes. In eight years I've never had a tangle. If you think about it, basically it's the same thing you'd be doing if you ran your rode down into an anchor locker. The only time I ever used the figure 8 routine was on a large gaff rigged schooner with 1" lines used for the throat and peak halyards. Since it was too big to coil it was the only way to control the tangles.
Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: Daniel Rich To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 12:04 PM Subject: M_Boats: Anchoring Redux
So, yesterday had a really nice sail in Tomales Bay, my usual spot. Winds were light to start, and picked up nicely in the afternoon. All the sailing exercises I picked up at the Small Craft Academy I wanted to do I got done. Series of gybes, MOB drills, sailing backwards, standing up while sailing, sailing with my legs, all good stuff. Now came the anchoring. Perfect conditions. Wind a bit off the shore, shallow enough. So, I got out my Danforth and my new rectangular container complete with 80 feet of flaked rode in a figure 8. So far so good. I couldn't figure out if I dropped from the cockpit whether I should keep the line inside our outside the shrouds and pulpit. I elected inside, which was a mistake. In any event, dropped fine, backed the boat up with wind, set the anchor, and all was well. I walked forward and cleated off on the bow cleat. Had a nice lunch. Now for the fun part. Time to haul anchor. So, I raised the main to cock into the wind, walked forward and grabbed the rode, and pulled hand over hand forward. I easily raised the anchor, along with 20 pounds of reeds. So, I shook those off. In the meantime, the boat was sailing down wind happily without me steering. Now, I managed to wrap tons of rode around various things as I tried to deal with the line. I really looked like Inspector Clousseau by the end of it. Line everywhere. Amazing how much entropy there is on a boat. At least is wasn't 200 feet of it. At this point I shook my fists skyward, grabbed the tiller, and heaved to. Now I was stopped. I was able to extricate all of the line and flake it back into the container without hanging myself accidentally from the boom, stowed it all, and sailed off. Geez. I'm glad nobody was filming. Next time I will run the stuff all outside the shrouds and pulpit, leave the sails down, and try again. I've got a ways to go on that one.
Daniel
participants (8)
-
Bill Buller -
Bill Wickett -
Daniel Rich -
Gail Russell -
GARY M HYDE -
James Poulakis -
Joe Murphy -
William Campion