Bureaucracy - Be all that you can be!!!
If anyone would like a good laugh at how the branches of our government function, independent of each other and of course, in conflict of it's objectives, read on........... But first, some background information: I recently purchased an M-10 without a title. The boat had been registered in PA at one time, but not since 2006. After contacting PA, I received a document showing the registration information. After a closer look, there are several details that are incorrect. The year was listed as 1974, but based on the hull number (#177) the boat was built in 1972 or early 1973. The boat was listed as 12 foot, instead of 10 feet. The manufacture was listed as Montgomery Ward, not Montgomery Marine Products, etc. While dealing with Maryland DNR, it became apparent that I would not be able to obtain a corrected title, since the actual boat that I bought, did not match the registration detail. So, they questioned if the boat I bought was actually the boat that I was attempting to register based on the PA registration information. They would not take my word on any of the corrections. The DNR would not allow me to register my boat and have the right to fine me for using unregistered boat. My only option was to contact PA and ask them to make the corrections to their system for a boat that is no longer registered or located in PA. To do this, I would need a Bill of Sale, for the boat I bought showing the incorrect information as listed in PA. PA was willing to make the corrections solely based on my word. No other proof was required. They would provide me a document listing the corrected information. With this information, I could then go back to MD with a 'new' Bill of Sale (this new Bill of Sale, would then have to match the corrected information) With any luck, I would then be able to secure a new title and register my boat in Maryland. Of course, if I am not able to register my boat within 30 days from the time of purchase, MD adds additional fees and penalties and interest to the cost of registration. Here's the rub.........Maryland would not make any changes to the registration based on my word, but PA will. Once PA makes the changes, they will trust the PA records and issue a MD title. The other funny thing.............I will have to create two 'new' Bill of Sale, to match the information that each state is expecting. I am attempting to keep things legal and properly title and register my boat, but in the process, I am 'creating' various documents to make the various government agencies happy, which technically are not as legal or proper as they should be. But hey, let's not that spoil the fun!!!! Hummm......does anyone else find this funny?
That's why I have bumper stickers that say "vote the bums out". I realize that the DMV isn't a elected position, but it cones from somewhere. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: <wcampion@aol.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 6:46 PM Subject: M_Boats: Bureaucracy - Be all that you can be!!! If anyone would like a good laugh at how the branches of our government function, independent of each other and of course, in conflict of it's objectives, read on........... But first, some background information: I recently purchased an M-10 without a title. The boat had been registered in PA at one time, but not since 2006. After contacting PA, I received a document showing the registration information. After a closer look, there are several details that are incorrect. The year was listed as 1974, but based on the hull number (#177) the boat was built in 1972 or early 1973. The boat was listed as 12 foot, instead of 10 feet. The manufacture was listed as Montgomery Ward, not Montgomery Marine Products, etc. While dealing with Maryland DNR, it became apparent that I would not be able to obtain a corrected title, since the actual boat that I bought, did not match the registration detail. So, they questioned if the boat I bought was actually the boat that I was attempting to register based on the PA registration information. They would not take my word on any of the corrections. The DNR would not allow me to register my boat and have the right to fine me for using unregistered boat. My only option was to contact PA and ask them to make the corrections to their system for a boat that is no longer registered or located in PA. To do this, I would need a Bill of Sale, for the boat I bought showing the incorrect information as listed in PA. PA was willing to make the corrections solely based on my word. No other proof was required. They would provide me a document listing the corrected information. With this information, I could then go back to MD with a 'new' Bill of Sale (this new Bill of Sale, would then have to match the corrected information) With any luck, I would then be able to secure a new title and register my boat in Maryland. Of course, if I am not able to register my boat within 30 days from the time of purchase, MD adds additional fees and penalties and interest to the cost of registration. Here's the rub.........Maryland would not make any changes to the registration based on my word, but PA will. Once PA makes the changes, they will trust the PA records and issue a MD title. The other funny thing.............I will have to create two 'new' Bill of Sale, to match the information that each state is expecting. I am attempting to keep things legal and properly title and register my boat, but in the process, I am 'creating' various documents to make the various government agencies happy, which technically are not as legal or proper as they should be. But hey, let's not that spoil the fun!!!! Hummm......does anyone else find this funny? -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. SPAMfighter has removed 6646 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len Do you have a slow PC? Try Free scan http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen
I told them I had verifiable proof from the original builder in 1972, but for some reason, that wasn't good enough either. Go figure!!! Skip On Jun 8, 2012, at 10:28 PM, "jerry montgomery" <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> wrote:
That's why I have bumper stickers that say "vote the bums out". I realize that the DMV isn't a elected position, but it cones from somewhere.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: <wcampion@aol.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 6:46 PM Subject: M_Boats: Bureaucracy - Be all that you can be!!!
If anyone would like a good laugh at how the branches of our government function, independent of each other and of course, in conflict of it's objectives, read on...........
But first, some background information:
I recently purchased an M-10 without a title. The boat had been registered in PA at one time, but not since 2006. After contacting PA, I received a document showing the registration information. After a closer look, there are several details that are incorrect. The year was listed as 1974, but based on the hull number (#177) the boat was built in 1972 or early 1973. The boat was listed as 12 foot, instead of 10 feet. The manufacture was listed as Montgomery Ward, not Montgomery Marine Products, etc.
While dealing with Maryland DNR, it became apparent that I would not be able to obtain a corrected title, since the actual boat that I bought, did not match the registration detail. So, they questioned if the boat I bought was actually the boat that I was attempting to register based on the PA registration information. They would not take my word on any of the corrections. The DNR would not allow me to register my boat and have the right to fine me for using unregistered boat. My only option was to contact PA and ask them to make the corrections to their system for a boat that is no longer registered or located in PA. To do this, I would need a Bill of Sale, for the boat I bought showing the incorrect information as listed in PA. PA was willing to make the corrections solely based on my word. No other proof was required. They would provide me a document listing the corrected information. With this information, I could then go back to MD with a 'new' Bill of Sale (this new Bill of Sale, would then have to match the corrected information) With any luck, I would then be able to secure a new title and register my boat in Maryland. Of course, if I am not able to register my boat within 30 days from the time of purchase, MD adds additional fees and penalties and interest to the cost of registration.
Here's the rub.........Maryland would not make any changes to the registration based on my word, but PA will. Once PA makes the changes, they will trust the PA records and issue a MD title. The other funny thing.............I will have to create two 'new' Bill of Sale, to match the information that each state is expecting. I am attempting to keep things legal and properly title and register my boat, but in the process, I am 'creating' various documents to make the various government agencies happy, which technically are not as legal or proper as they should be. But hey, let's not that spoil the fun!!!!
Hummm......does anyone else find this funny?
-- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. SPAMfighter has removed 6646 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len
Do you have a slow PC? Try Free scan http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen
I'll buy that M-10 without title S ________________________________ From: "wcampion@aol.com" <wcampion@aol.com> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Sent: Friday, June 8, 2012 6:46 PM Subject: M_Boats: Bureaucracy - Be all that you can be!!! If anyone would like a good laugh at how the branches of our government function, independent of each other and of course, in conflict of it's objectives, read on........... But first, some background information: I recently purchased an M-10 without a title. The boat had been registered in PA at one time, but not since 2006. After contacting PA, I received a document showing the registration information. After a closer look, there are several details that are incorrect. The year was listed as 1974, but based on the hull number (#177) the boat was built in 1972 or early 1973. The boat was listed as 12 foot, instead of 10 feet. The manufacture was listed as Montgomery Ward, not Montgomery Marine Products, etc. While dealing with Maryland DNR, it became apparent that I would not be able to obtain a corrected title, since the actual boat that I bought, did not match the registration detail. So, they questioned if the boat I bought was actually the boat that I was attempting to register based on the PA registration information. They would not take my word on any of the corrections. The DNR would not allow me to register my boat and have the right to fine me for using unregistered boat. My only option was to contact PA and ask them to make the corrections to their system for a boat that is no longer registered or located in PA. To do this, I would need a Bill of Sale, for the boat I bought showing the incorrect information as listed in PA. PA was willing to make the corrections solely based on my word. No other proof was required. They would provide me a document listing the corrected information. With this information, I could then go back to MD with a 'new' Bill of Sale (this new Bill of Sale, would then have to match the corrected information) With any luck, I would then be able to secure a new title and register my boat in Maryland. Of course, if I am not able to register my boat within 30 days from the time of purchase, MD adds additional fees and penalties and interest to the cost of registration. Here's the rub.........Maryland would not make any changes to the registration based on my word, but PA will. Once PA makes the changes, they will trust the PA records and issue a MD title. The other funny thing.............I will have to create two 'new' Bill of Sale, to match the information that each state is expecting. I am attempting to keep things legal and properly title and register my boat, but in the process, I am 'creating' various documents to make the various government agencies happy, which technically are not as legal or proper as they should be. But hey, let's not that spoil the fun!!!! Hummm......does anyone else find this funny?
Not to worry Stan. It's yours when I'm ready to sell. Skip On Jun 8, 2012, at 10:47 PM, Stan Susman <stanpfa@pacbell.net> wrote:
I'll buy that M-10 without title S
________________________________ From: "wcampion@aol.com" <wcampion@aol.com> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Sent: Friday, June 8, 2012 6:46 PM Subject: M_Boats: Bureaucracy - Be all that you can be!!!
If anyone would like a good laugh at how the branches of our government function, independent of each other and of course, in conflict of it's objectives, read on...........
But first, some background information:
I recently purchased an M-10 without a title. The boat had been registered in PA at one time, but not since 2006. After contacting PA, I received a document showing the registration information. After a closer look, there are several details that are incorrect. The year was listed as 1974, but based on the hull number (#177) the boat was built in 1972 or early 1973. The boat was listed as 12 foot, instead of 10 feet. The manufacture was listed as Montgomery Ward, not Montgomery Marine Products, etc.
While dealing with Maryland DNR, it became apparent that I would not be able to obtain a corrected title, since the actual boat that I bought, did not match the registration detail. So, they questioned if the boat I bought was actually the boat that I was attempting to register based on the PA registration information. They would not take my word on any of the corrections. The DNR would not allow me to register my boat and have the right to fine me for using unregistered boat. My only option was to contact PA and ask them to make the corrections to their system for a boat that is no longer registered or located in PA. To do this, I would need a Bill of Sale, for the boat I bought showing the incorrect information as listed in PA. PA was willing to make the corrections solely based on my word. No other proof was required. They would provide me a document listing the corrected information. With this information, I could then go back to MD with a 'new' Bill of Sale (this new Bill of Sale, would then have to match the corrected information) With any luck, I would then be able to secure a new title and register my boat in Maryland. Of course, if I am not able to register my boat within 30 days from the time of purchase, MD adds additional fees and penalties and interest to the cost of registration.
Here's the rub.........Maryland would not make any changes to the registration based on my word, but PA will. Once PA makes the changes, they will trust the PA records and issue a MD title. The other funny thing.............I will have to create two 'new' Bill of Sale, to match the information that each state is expecting. I am attempting to keep things legal and properly title and register my boat, but in the process, I am 'creating' various documents to make the various government agencies happy, which technically are not as legal or proper as they should be. But hey, let's not that spoil the fun!!!!
Hummm......does anyone else find this funny?
Between a rock and a hard place. Glad you got it sorted. On 6/8/12, wcampion@aol.com <wcampion@aol.com> wrote:
If anyone would like a good laugh at how the branches of our government function, independent of each other and of course, in conflict of it's objectives, read on...........
But first, some background information:
I recently purchased an M-10 without a title. The boat had been registered in PA at one time, but not since 2006. After contacting PA, I received a document showing the registration information. After a closer look, there are several details that are incorrect. The year was listed as 1974, but based on the hull number (#177) the boat was built in 1972 or early 1973. The boat was listed as 12 foot, instead of 10 feet. The manufacture was listed as Montgomery Ward, not Montgomery Marine Products, etc.
While dealing with Maryland DNR, it became apparent that I would not be able to obtain a corrected title, since the actual boat that I bought, did not match the registration detail. So, they questioned if the boat I bought was actually the boat that I was attempting to register based on the PA registration information. They would not take my word on any of the corrections. The DNR would not allow me to register my boat and have the right to fine me for using unregistered boat. My only option was to contact PA and ask them to make the corrections to their system for a boat that is no longer registered or located in PA. To do this, I would need a Bill of Sale, for the boat I bought showing the incorrect information as listed in PA. PA was willing to make the corrections solely based on my word. No other proof was required. They would provide me a document listing the corrected information. With this information, I could then go back to MD with a 'new' Bill of Sale (this new Bill of Sale, would then have to match the corrected information) With any luck, I would then be able to secure a new title and register my boat in Maryland. Of course, if I am not able to register my boat within 30 days from the time of purchase, MD adds additional fees and penalties and interest to the cost of registration.
Here's the rub.........Maryland would not make any changes to the registration based on my word, but PA will. Once PA makes the changes, they will trust the PA records and issue a MD title. The other funny thing.............I will have to create two 'new' Bill of Sale, to match the information that each state is expecting. I am attempting to keep things legal and properly title and register my boat, but in the process, I am 'creating' various documents to make the various government agencies happy, which technically are not as legal or proper as they should be. But hey, let's not that spoil the fun!!!!
Hummm......does anyone else find this funny?
When I bought my 1978 M17, I faced something similar with the Trail Rite trailer, which has to be titled. The seller had no title to convey. Our solution (theirs, actually) was to call it "homemade". You might try the same thing with the boat. Tell them you built it yourself. If they ask when, tell them a long time ago, then give them the actual numbers. I built a 10 foot dinghy and was issued a set of boat numbers with the plans. On paper, they would never be able to tell the difference. Didn't Johnny Cash have the same problem with a Cadillac? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWHniL8MyMM
Hi M-boaters, dropped the board (luckily not literally) this week and put on the new double swagged halyard. The old swage was gone so it looks like during the pounding during the grounding the swagged loop simply came undone. The process took all day and it is always dicey working with a 350lb chunk of steel that can easily get away from you. I was amazed that once again, I removed the pivot and stop pin and the board just sat in the slot. We eventually were able to get it out after pounding on all kinds of places unsuccessfully but that board is a tight fit and apparently can hang up without too much encouragement. If anyone has to do this operation in the future, including me, build a 45 degree angled cradle for the board so you can use two hydraulic jacks to vertically move the board back into the slot and then roll the board toward bow or stern to align the pivot pin. You can get one jack on the bottom as you can see in my web pictures but you cannot get a second jack on the front without some kind of jig. We ended up doing all this the really hard way and it would be well worth the effort to make a cradle to allow two jacks on the board. Off to go sailing! Cheers Robbin https://picasaweb.google.com/110938325409185510143/M23#
Hello Robin, Just bought late model M15 ( hull #322). Fantastic picture set of your repair trials an tribulations. Very helpful for my future repair endeavors! Chuck On Sat, Jun 9, 2012 at 10:12 AM, Robbin Roddewig < robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> wrote:
Hi M-boaters, dropped the board (luckily not literally) this week and put on the new double swagged halyard. The old swage was gone so it looks like during the pounding during the grounding the swagged loop simply came undone. The process took all day and it is always dicey working with a 350lb chunk of steel that can easily get away from you. I was amazed that once again, I removed the pivot and stop pin and the board just sat in the slot. We eventually were able to get it out after pounding on all kinds of places unsuccessfully but that board is a tight fit and apparently can hang up without too much encouragement. If anyone has to do this operation in the future, including me, build a 45 degree angled cradle for the board so you can use two hydraulic jacks to vertically move the board back into the slot and then roll the board toward bow or stern to align the pivot pin. You can get one jack on the bottom as you can see in my web pictures but you cannot get a second jack on the front without some kind of jig. We ended up doing all this the really hard way and it would be well worth the effort to make a cradle to allow two jacks on the board.
Off to go sailing!
Cheers Robbin
-- Prescott Stone Fabricators, Ltd. *20 YEARS SERVING THE TRIANGLE* www.prescottstone.com email: info@prescottstone.com 607 ELLIS ROAD, BLDG. 49-A, DURHAM, NC 27703 (919) 598-7509 • FAX (919) 598-3927
Boy, bureaucracy has changed. I went to DMV in 1980 to register a used Potter 14, and the lady did not like my documentation. Without asking me, she registered the boat and trailer "homemade" and I left a happy sailor. That was California then; things have changed, I suspect. On Jun 9, 2012, at 6:38 AM, Howard Audsley wrote:
When I bought my 1978 M17, I faced something similar with the Trail Rite trailer, which has to be titled. The seller had no title to convey. Our solution (theirs, actually) was to call it "homemade".
You might try the same thing with the boat. Tell them you built it yourself. If they ask when, tell them a long time ago, then give them the actual numbers. I built a 10 foot dinghy and was issued a set of boat numbers with the plans. On paper, they would never be able to tell the difference.
Didn't Johnny Cash have the same problem with a Cadillac?
Hi Skip, you had asked for the hull number on my M10, it is MMP106140776. May not help too much but from what I know this means Montgomery Marine Products 10' hull number 614 made July of 1976. Bicentennial boat! Robbin On 6/8/2012 9:46 PM, wcampion@aol.com wrote:
If anyone would like a good laugh at how the branches of our government function, independent of each other and of course, in conflict of it's objectives, read on...........
But first, some background information:
I recently purchased an M-10 without a title. The boat had been registered in PA at one time, but not since 2006. After contacting PA, I received a document showing the registration information. After a closer look, there are several details that are incorrect. The year was listed as 1974, but based on the hull number (#177) the boat was built in 1972 or early 1973. The boat was listed as 12 foot, instead of 10 feet. The manufacture was listed as Montgomery Ward, not Montgomery Marine Products, etc.
While dealing with Maryland DNR, it became apparent that I would not be able to obtain a corrected title, since the actual boat that I bought, did not match the registration detail. So, they questioned if the boat I bought was actually the boat that I was attempting to register based on the PA registration information. They would not take my word on any of the corrections. The DNR would not allow me to register my boat and have the right to fine me for using unregistered boat. My only option was to contact PA and ask them to make the corrections to their system for a boat that is no longer registered or located in PA. To do this, I would need a Bill of Sale, for the boat I bought showing the incorrect information as listed in PA. PA was willing to make the corrections solely based on my word. No other proof was required. They would provide me a document listing the corrected information. With this information, I could then go back to MD with a 'new' Bill of Sale (this new Bill of Sale, would then have to match the corrected information) With any luck, I would then be able to secure a new title and register my boat in Maryland. Of course, if I am not able to register my boat within 30 days from the time of purchase, MD adds additional fees and penalties and interest to the cost of registration.
Here's the rub.........Maryland would not make any changes to the registration based on my word, but PA will. Once PA makes the changes, they will trust the PA records and issue a MD title. The other funny thing.............I will have to create two 'new' Bill of Sale, to match the information that each state is expecting. I am attempting to keep things legal and properly title and register my boat, but in the process, I am 'creating' various documents to make the various government agencies happy, which technically are not as legal or proper as they should be. But hey, let's not that spoil the fun!!!!
Hummm......does anyone else find this funny?
participants (9)
-
Bill Wickett -
Howard Audsley -
jerry montgomery -
Prescott, Charles -
Robbin Roddewig -
Stan Susman -
Tom Jenkins -
wcampion＠aol.com -
William Campion