I tried to post this on the Montgomery forum last night but it kicked back and said I wasn't authorized to post. If you think it would be benificial to anybody you can pass it on. If not just delete it. Hope all is well in your world. As many of you know I make countless rudders, tillers, daggers, hatches, etc. for boats every year. Well over 500 this year. I know from experience that the weights vary radically. Just because it is mahogany, or teak, or ash, cypress, etc. says very little about the weight. There is a production boat I make the stock rudders for that is from a blank roughly 4' x 1' x 1 1/2" and the mahogany blanks vary by as much as 10 pounds. There are some racing classes such as Sunfish, Laser, and Force 5 that give a small window that the boards have to fit in and sometimes it's very hard to meet that. As far as I know neither Jerry nor Bob have ever stated a weight requirement but I've never discussed this with either of them in our discussions. John Owens J O Woodworks / B & L Ram Pumps 903-894-6293 870 County Road 3812 Troup, Texas 75789 _http://www.jowoodworks.com_ (http://www.jowoodworks.com/) _jowoodworks@yahoo.com_ (mailto:jowoodworks@yahoo.com) _http://www.blrampump.com_ (http://www.blrampump.com/) _john@blrampump.com_ (mailto:john@blrampump.com) In a message dated 10/22/2015 8:52:41 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com writes: I am adding a 5hp tohatsu to the transom weight also. About 58 #'s. I agonized about getting the 3.5 which is only about 40 pounds but the winds down here just north of Corpus Christi, Tx. are considerable and generate a vicious chop. I talked to Jerry about making the M17 really efficient to windward and he suggested adding some weight to the hull and getting a highcut, 80% jib and using a barber hauler to be able to pull it inboard to about 9degrees from the centerline of the boat and double reefing the main. The traveler car should be pulled to windward as far as possible to be able to trim the main to the jib. He said the boat would scoot to windward dressed like that. I dropped the cast iron board this year and faired the leading and trailing edges to better conform to Jerry's idea of an efficient foil shape. The board ended up weighing only 140 pounds though I did not take any more than about 5 pounds off of it when I was grinding it. So the stock board was about about 35 pounds light as per boat specs. I added 50 pounds of lead to the base of the mast step in the hull to make up for that. I figured the 60 pound battery would then be enough extra weight to get the boat to push to windward. Lots of dithering with these little boats. Good thing I am retired. May I recommend getting a subscription to "Small Craft Advisor". It is a great magazine, bi-monthly, about little boats and the handling, maintenance and improvement of same. Since you also have a kickup rudder you might be interested in a piece of gear I devised to add a slip clutch to the line that holds the rudder blade in place while sailing and will only release if you hit something solid with the rudder, thus protecting your rudder attachment without having to resort to shear pins which are a pain to change out on the water after a grounding. Regards, Tom Buzzi On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 10:02 AM, Larry Yake <larryyake@gmail.com> wrote:

I have an Ida Sailor kick-up rudder also, and have wondered about the additional weight at the stern. I would imagine, though, that the weight gain is somewhat cancelled by it's buoyancy once the rudder is in the water. Not as much as a wood rudder for sure, but it must be lighter in the water than it is out.

On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 11:08 PM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:

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The stock wooden one of mahogany with pintles and sliding ss rod weighed a little over 22 pounds. The IDA rudder I have made of high density plastic top and bottom with aluminum side plates for a hinge weighs in at about 60 pounds. A hugh addition to weight right at the back of the boat. Not good. I may go back to a wooden one and make it a kickup with side plates. Or redo the top half in aluminum plate. My list of winter projects is starting to grow. Tom B

On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 10:02 PM, GILASAILR--- via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:

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Tom B,

What did the rudder weigh? Type and density of woods (different types of mahogany over the years) affect the weight and ultimate strength - my last wood rudder was little better than bad pallet lumber and warped in a few months (stored indoors)

Inquiring minds... That is why 'we' built a plastic one. No warping and mucho control over strength,weight and shape!

Thanks GO M-17t sail # 354 'Tiny Purple Fishes'

In a message dated 10/21/2015 4:58:55 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com writes:

Hello John, Another Monty owner already got the info I need to me. Thanks for your offer. Tom B

On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 1:50 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net

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wrote:

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I have a 74 - plain wooden rudder, painted, two pintles, no sliding rod gizmo. I can weight it if you want - I assume the rudder was pretty much the same from 74 to 77?

cheers, John S.

On 10/21/2015 11:27 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:

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Does anybody know how heavy the stock wooden rudder was on 17 Montgomerys built in 1977?

-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com