I have the original solid mahogany rudder that came with my 1978 M17, but also have a fairly new replacement that I got from Bob E. and it is also of the solid mahogany type. The new one came with a clear finish that has help up for the past few years, but is now fading and needs to be touched up or replaced. The entire rudder was coated with this finish. Almost ALL clear finishes specify they are not for use below the waterline. If the boat is trailer sailed, I presume a short dunking of a few days doesn't hurt and a person could use one of the polyurethane finishes such as Interlux Goldspar.....that is what I use on my tiller. Somewhere around 7 or 8 coats it starts looking like it was dipped in glass. But if the boat is left in the water for weeks or months on end, what then? For the old rudder, I sanded off all the finish and paint, repaired some damage, then glassed it to a few inches above the water line. That got several coats of epoxy over the glass cloth, and was then hit with a hard finish bottom paint. The problem with glassing it and sealing it up, if water ever does get in, it stays in. So what is the recommended coating for these solid mahogany wooden rudders?
If you are going to trailer sail it, I'd sand it down and reshape it, then give it several coats of spar varnish. If keeping it under water, sand it down and re-shape it, then several coats of epoxy; if you need antifouling, sand and prime the epoxy. It'll last all summer easily. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Howard Audsley" <haudsley@tranquility.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 9:24 AM Subject: M_Boats: Rudder Finishes I have the original solid mahogany rudder that came with my 1978 M17, but also have a fairly new replacement that I got from Bob E. and it is also of the solid mahogany type. The new one came with a clear finish that has help up for the past few years, but is now fading and needs to be touched up or replaced. The entire rudder was coated with this finish. Almost ALL clear finishes specify they are not for use below the waterline. If the boat is trailer sailed, I presume a short dunking of a few days doesn't hurt and a person could use one of the polyurethane finishes such as Interlux Goldspar.....that is what I use on my tiller. Somewhere around 7 or 8 coats it starts looking like it was dipped in glass. But if the boat is left in the water for weeks or months on end, what then? For the old rudder, I sanded off all the finish and paint, repaired some damage, then glassed it to a few inches above the water line. That got several coats of epoxy over the glass cloth, and was then hit with a hard finish bottom paint. The problem with glassing it and sealing it up, if water ever does get in, it stays in. So what is the recommended coating for these solid mahogany wooden rudders? -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 6389 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message
Hi Jerry, I was interested in your comments about reshaping the mahogany rudders. You probably already talked about the desired shape but I must have missed it. What shape would we shoot for? I assume this would apply to the M-23's as well? Thanks Robbin On 4/21/2012 2:02 PM, jerry montgomery wrote:
If you are going to trailer sail it, I'd sand it down and reshape it, then give it several coats of spar varnish.
If keeping it under water, sand it down and re-shape it, then several coats of epoxy; if you need antifouling, sand and prime the epoxy. It'll last all summer easily.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Howard Audsley" <haudsley@tranquility.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 9:24 AM Subject: M_Boats: Rudder Finishes
I have the original solid mahogany rudder that came with my 1978 M17, but also have a fairly new replacement that I got from Bob E. and it is also of the solid mahogany type. The new one came with a clear finish that has help up for the past few years, but is now fading and needs to be touched up or replaced. The entire rudder was coated with this finish.
Almost ALL clear finishes specify they are not for use below the waterline. If the boat is trailer sailed, I presume a short dunking of a few days doesn't hurt and a person could use one of the polyurethane finishes such as Interlux Goldspar.....that is what I use on my tiller. Somewhere around 7 or 8 coats it starts looking like it was dipped in glass.
But if the boat is left in the water for weeks or months on end, what then?
For the old rudder, I sanded off all the finish and paint, repaired some damage, then glassed it to a few inches above the water line. That got several coats of epoxy over the glass cloth, and was then hit with a hard finish bottom paint. The problem with glassing it and sealing it up, if water ever does get in, it stays in.
So what is the recommended coating for these solid mahogany wooden rudders?
-- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 6389 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len
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Here is a good reference: http://mothboat.tripod.com/CMBA/Building/foils.htm
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Robbin Roddewig Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 2:33 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rudder Finishes
Hi Jerry, I was interested in your comments about reshaping the mahogany rudders. You probably already talked about the desired shape but I must have missed it. What shape would we shoot for? I assume this would apply to the M-23's as well?
Thanks Robbin
On 4/21/2012 2:02 PM, jerry montgomery wrote:
If you are going to trailer sail it, I'd sand it down and reshape it, then give it several coats of spar varnish.
If keeping it under water, sand it down and re-shape it, then several coats of epoxy; if you need antifouling, sand and prime the epoxy. It'll last all summer easily.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Howard Audsley" <haudsley@tranquility.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 9:24 AM Subject: M_Boats: Rudder Finishes
I have the original solid mahogany rudder that came with my 1978 M17, but also have a fairly new replacement that I got from Bob E. and it is also of the solid mahogany type. The new one came with a clear finish that has help up for the past few years, but is now fading and needs to be touched up or replaced. The entire rudder was coated with this finish.
Almost ALL clear finishes specify they are not for use below the waterline. If the boat is trailer sailed, I presume a short dunking of a few days doesn't hurt and a person could use one of the polyurethane finishes such as Interlux Goldspar.....that is what I use on my tiller. Somewhere around 7 or 8 coats it starts looking like it was dipped in glass.
But if the boat is left in the water for weeks or months on end, what then?
For the old rudder, I sanded off all the finish and paint, repaired some damage, then glassed it to a few inches above the water line. That got several coats of epoxy over the glass cloth, and was then hit with a hard finish bottom paint. The problem with glassing it and sealing it up, if water ever does get in, it stays in.
So what is the recommended coating for these solid mahogany wooden rudders?
-- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 6389 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len
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Years ago I wrote something years ago that should be in the archives, and a couple of years ago I wrote a column in SCA about that. Basically you want an elliptical entry, the max draft 30 to 40% aft, and an exit that thins down to about an eight inch, with the trailing edge flat, not rounded. If you get it anywhere mnear this, it's good enough. What really slows thiings down it a flat, sharp, or uneven leadibng edge, an d a fat or round exit. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robbin Roddewig" <robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 11:33 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rudder Finishes
Hi Jerry, I was interested in your comments about reshaping the mahogany rudders. You probably already talked about the desired shape but I must have missed it. What shape would we shoot for? I assume this would apply to the M-23's as well?
Thanks Robbin
On 4/21/2012 2:02 PM, jerry montgomery wrote:
If you are going to trailer sail it, I'd sand it down and reshape it, then give it several coats of spar varnish.
If keeping it under water, sand it down and re-shape it, then several coats of epoxy; if you need antifouling, sand and prime the epoxy. It'll last all summer easily.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Howard Audsley" <haudsley@tranquility.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 9:24 AM Subject: M_Boats: Rudder Finishes
I have the original solid mahogany rudder that came with my 1978 M17, but also have a fairly new replacement that I got from Bob E. and it is also of the solid mahogany type. The new one came with a clear finish that has help up for the past few years, but is now fading and needs to be touched up or replaced. The entire rudder was coated with this finish.
Almost ALL clear finishes specify they are not for use below the waterline. If the boat is trailer sailed, I presume a short dunking of a few days doesn't hurt and a person could use one of the polyurethane finishes such as Interlux Goldspar.....that is what I use on my tiller. Somewhere around 7 or 8 coats it starts looking like it was dipped in glass.
But if the boat is left in the water for weeks or months on end, what then?
For the old rudder, I sanded off all the finish and paint, repaired some damage, then glassed it to a few inches above the water line. That got several coats of epoxy over the glass cloth, and was then hit with a hard finish bottom paint. The problem with glassing it and sealing it up, if water ever does get in, it stays in.
So what is the recommended coating for these solid mahogany wooden rudders?
-- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 6389 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len
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Thanks Jerry, I will scan SCA as I have years of back issues. Robbin On 4/22/2012 2:42 PM, jerry montgomery wrote:
Years ago I wrote something years ago that should be in the archives, and a couple of years ago I wrote a column in SCA about that.
Basically you want an elliptical entry, the max draft 30 to 40% aft, and an exit that thins down to about an eight inch, with the trailing edge flat, not rounded. If you get it anywhere mnear this, it's good enough. What really slows thiings down it a flat, sharp, or uneven leadibng edge, an d a fat or round exit.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robbin Roddewig" <robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 11:33 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rudder Finishes
Hi Jerry, I was interested in your comments about reshaping the mahogany rudders. You probably already talked about the desired shape but I must have missed it. What shape would we shoot for? I assume this would apply to the M-23's as well?
Thanks Robbin
On 4/21/2012 2:02 PM, jerry montgomery wrote:
If you are going to trailer sail it, I'd sand it down and reshape it, then give it several coats of spar varnish.
If keeping it under water, sand it down and re-shape it, then several coats of epoxy; if you need antifouling, sand and prime the epoxy. It'll last all summer easily.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Howard Audsley" <haudsley@tranquility.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 9:24 AM Subject: M_Boats: Rudder Finishes
I have the original solid mahogany rudder that came with my 1978 M17, but also have a fairly new replacement that I got from Bob E. and it is also of the solid mahogany type. The new one came with a clear finish that has help up for the past few years, but is now fading and needs to be touched up or replaced. The entire rudder was coated with this finish.
Almost ALL clear finishes specify they are not for use below the waterline. If the boat is trailer sailed, I presume a short dunking of a few days doesn't hurt and a person could use one of the polyurethane finishes such as Interlux Goldspar.....that is what I use on my tiller. Somewhere around 7 or 8 coats it starts looking like it was dipped in glass.
But if the boat is left in the water for weeks or months on end, what then?
For the old rudder, I sanded off all the finish and paint, repaired some damage, then glassed it to a few inches above the water line. That got several coats of epoxy over the glass cloth, and was then hit with a hard finish bottom paint. The problem with glassing it and sealing it up, if water ever does get in, it stays in.
So what is the recommended coating for these solid mahogany wooden rudders?
-- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 6389 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len
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Sorry for posting so soon after hitting send but the issue where Jerry has his article on rudder shape is No. 55 (Jan/Feb 2009) on page 16 for anyone else that is interested. Thanks again for the information all. Robbin On 4/22/2012 2:42 PM, jerry montgomery wrote:
Years ago I wrote something years ago that should be in the archives, and a couple of years ago I wrote a column in SCA about that.
Basically you want an elliptical entry, the max draft 30 to 40% aft, and an exit that thins down to about an eight inch, with the trailing edge flat, not rounded. If you get it anywhere mnear this, it's good enough. What really slows thiings down it a flat, sharp, or uneven leadibng edge, an d a fat or round exit.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robbin Roddewig" <robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 11:33 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rudder Finishes
Hi Jerry, I was interested in your comments about reshaping the mahogany rudders. You probably already talked about the desired shape but I must have missed it. What shape would we shoot for? I assume this would apply to the M-23's as well?
Thanks Robbin
On 4/21/2012 2:02 PM, jerry montgomery wrote:
If you are going to trailer sail it, I'd sand it down and reshape it, then give it several coats of spar varnish.
If keeping it under water, sand it down and re-shape it, then several coats of epoxy; if you need antifouling, sand and prime the epoxy. It'll last all summer easily.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Howard Audsley" <haudsley@tranquility.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 9:24 AM Subject: M_Boats: Rudder Finishes
I have the original solid mahogany rudder that came with my 1978 M17, but also have a fairly new replacement that I got from Bob E. and it is also of the solid mahogany type. The new one came with a clear finish that has help up for the past few years, but is now fading and needs to be touched up or replaced. The entire rudder was coated with this finish.
Almost ALL clear finishes specify they are not for use below the waterline. If the boat is trailer sailed, I presume a short dunking of a few days doesn't hurt and a person could use one of the polyurethane finishes such as Interlux Goldspar.....that is what I use on my tiller. Somewhere around 7 or 8 coats it starts looking like it was dipped in glass.
But if the boat is left in the water for weeks or months on end, what then?
For the old rudder, I sanded off all the finish and paint, repaired some damage, then glassed it to a few inches above the water line. That got several coats of epoxy over the glass cloth, and was then hit with a hard finish bottom paint. The problem with glassing it and sealing it up, if water ever does get in, it stays in.
So what is the recommended coating for these solid mahogany wooden rudders?
-- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 6389 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len
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the SMALL CRAFT ADVISOR article is available on the Sage Marine www-site. take a look at this link - http://sagemarine.us/SCA_articles/smalltalk_55.html thanks to Josh & company for allowing Sage Marine to 'archive' many of Jerry's writings. :: Dave Scobie :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.com --- On Sun, 4/22/12, jerry montgomery <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> wrote:
Years ago I wrote something years ago that should be in the archives, and a couple of years ago I wrote a column in SCA about that.
Basically you want an elliptical entry, the max draft 30 to 40% aft, and an exit that thins down to about an eight inch, with the trailing edge flat, not rounded. If you get it anywhere mnear this, it's good enough. What really slows thiings down it a flat, sharp, or uneven leadibng edge, an d a fat or round exit.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robbin Roddewig" <robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 11:33 AM
Hi Jerry, I was interested in your comments about reshaping the mahogany rudders. You probably already talked about the desired shape but I must have missed it. What shape would we shoot for? I assume this would apply to the M-23's as well?
Thanks Robbin
Jerry, What kind of epoxy finish would you use on a mahogany rudder under an anti-fouling paint? Rich -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of jerry montgomery Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 1:03 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rudder Finishes If you are going to trailer sail it, I'd sand it down and reshape it, then give it several coats of spar varnish. If keeping it under water, sand it down and re-shape it, then several coats of epoxy; if you need antifouling, sand and prime the epoxy. It'll last all summer easily. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Howard Audsley" <haudsley@tranquility.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 9:24 AM Subject: M_Boats: Rudder Finishes I have the original solid mahogany rudder that came with my 1978 M17, but also have a fairly new replacement that I got from Bob E. and it is also of the solid mahogany type. The new one came with a clear finish that has help up for the past few years, but is now fading and needs to be touched up or replaced. The entire rudder was coated with this finish. Almost ALL clear finishes specify they are not for use below the waterline. If the boat is trailer sailed, I presume a short dunking of a few days doesn't hurt and a person could use one of the polyurethane finishes such as Interlux Goldspar.....that is what I use on my tiller. Somewhere around 7 or 8 coats it starts looking like it was dipped in glass. But if the boat is left in the water for weeks or months on end, what then? For the old rudder, I sanded off all the finish and paint, repaired some damage, then glassed it to a few inches above the water line. That got several coats of epoxy over the glass cloth, and was then hit with a hard finish bottom paint. The problem with glassing it and sealing it up, if water ever does get in, it stays in. So what is the recommended coating for these solid mahogany wooden rudders? -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 6389 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message
I'd use epoxy primer if I were going to paint it, otherwise clear epozy resin. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Makela" <richmak@makelaperformance.com> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 2:29 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rudder Finishes
Jerry,
What kind of epoxy finish would you use on a mahogany rudder under an anti-fouling paint?
Rich -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of jerry montgomery Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 1:03 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rudder Finishes
If you are going to trailer sail it, I'd sand it down and reshape it, then give it several coats of spar varnish.
If keeping it under water, sand it down and re-shape it, then several coats of epoxy; if you need antifouling, sand and prime the epoxy. It'll last all summer easily.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Howard Audsley" <haudsley@tranquility.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 9:24 AM Subject: M_Boats: Rudder Finishes
I have the original solid mahogany rudder that came with my 1978 M17, but also have a fairly new replacement that I got from Bob E. and it is also of the solid mahogany type. The new one came with a clear finish that has help up for the past few years, but is now fading and needs to be touched up or replaced. The entire rudder was coated with this finish.
Almost ALL clear finishes specify they are not for use below the waterline. If the boat is trailer sailed, I presume a short dunking of a few days doesn't hurt and a person could use one of the polyurethane finishes such as
Interlux Goldspar.....that is what I use on my tiller. Somewhere around 7 or
8 coats it starts looking like it was dipped in glass.
But if the boat is left in the water for weeks or months on end, what then?
For the old rudder, I sanded off all the finish and paint, repaired some damage, then glassed it to a few inches above the water line. That got several coats of epoxy over the glass cloth, and was then hit with a hard finish bottom paint. The problem with glassing it and sealing it up, if water ever does get in, it stays in.
So what is the recommended coating for these solid mahogany wooden rudders?
-- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 6389 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len
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Took all the wood off my boat last year and have been working on it a lot lately. Almost ready to put it back on the boat. Any recommendations on bedding it to the boat? Thanks! Ted
3M4200 worked for me under the hatch trim. On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 10:28 PM, Ted Weidenbach <weid0069@umn.edu> wrote:
Took all the wood off my boat last year and have been working on it a lot lately. Almost ready to put it back on the boat. Any recommendations on bedding it to the boat?
Thanks! Ted
ted: besides 3M 4200, which i used when re-bedding hardware on my M17, there is Sikaflex-291. the 291 'white' is good for metal hardware. the 'black' works best for bedding teak. :: Dave Scobie --- On Tue, 5/22/12, Ted Weidenbach <weid0069@umn.edu> wrote:
Took all the wood off my boat last year and have been working on it a lot lately. Almost ready to put it back on the boat. Any recommendations on bedding it to the boat?
Thanks! Ted
Have to also mention that I bedded some new hardware this spring (traveller track, deck organizers, cam cleats) with butyl rubber tape. I think I am a convert to it, as far as ease of use. Definitely easier to handle and clean up. No chemicals required to clean up, and you don't have to work about getting it on your hands. Bill Makin' Time M17 #622 On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 10:28 PM, Ted Weidenbach <weid0069@umn.edu> wrote:
Took all the wood off my boat last year and have been working on it a lot lately. Almost ready to put it back on the boat. Any recommendations on bedding it to the boat?
Thanks! Ted
I kept this thread because I was doing the same thing. I just finished putting on my 8th coat of epifanes varnish and am wondering how long I should wait till I put the rudder back together. Do I have to wait a week or so until it is FULLY hard? Or can I put it back together this Saturday and go for my first sail on my boat ever!? -Ted On Apr 21, 2012, at 1:02 PM, jerry montgomery wrote:
If you are going to trailer sail it, I'd sand it down and reshape it, then give it several coats of spar varnish.
If keeping it under water, sand it down and re-shape it, then several coats of epoxy; if you need antifouling, sand and prime the epoxy. It'll last all summer easily.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Howard Audsley" <haudsley@tranquility.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 9:24 AM Subject: M_Boats: Rudder Finishes
I have the original solid mahogany rudder that came with my 1978 M17, but also have a fairly new replacement that I got from Bob E. and it is also of the solid mahogany type. The new one came with a clear finish that has help up for the past few years, but is now fading and needs to be touched up or replaced. The entire rudder was coated with this finish.
Almost ALL clear finishes specify they are not for use below the waterline. If the boat is trailer sailed, I presume a short dunking of a few days doesn't hurt and a person could use one of the polyurethane finishes such as Interlux Goldspar.....that is what I use on my tiller. Somewhere around 7 or 8 coats it starts looking like it was dipped in glass.
But if the boat is left in the water for weeks or months on end, what then?
For the old rudder, I sanded off all the finish and paint, repaired some damage, then glassed it to a few inches above the water line. That got several coats of epoxy over the glass cloth, and was then hit with a hard finish bottom paint. The problem with glassing it and sealing it up, if water ever does get in, it stays in.
So what is the recommended coating for these solid mahogany wooden rudders?
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participants (8)
-
Bill Wickett -
Howard Audsley -
jerry montgomery -
Rich Makela -
Robbin Roddewig -
Ted Weidenbach -
Tod -
W David Scobie