Well, I'd advise you not use a drifter in over 5-8 mph. It's meant just what it says--drifting breezes. I use one on my M17 (used one to great effect on my M15 as well--about the only time an M15 will walk away from an M17...). Mounts up just like a great big genoa, which in fact it really is. You can sheet it in tight and sail close to the wind, and pole it out on a run. Works great. Wind pipes up and it becomes a handful. I sail single handed with mine all the time. But remember, very mild conditions. t On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 6:45 PM, Daniel Lloyd <dantheman@inbox.com> wrote:

i have one too with all the hardware but i too have no idea how to use it. i took it out once, looked at it for a few minutes and decided to not use it. if you figure it out please share

Daniel

...

-----Original Message----- From: danielgrich@gmail.com Sent: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 18:35:26 -0700 To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: Drifter

Montypals:

So, M15 Kestrel has a drifter, and appears to have all the deck hardware to use it including blocks all the way back on the stern pulpit, whisker pole etc. So, how do I rig the son of a gun? I've been told it is a handful. I'll be in Santa Cruz for a week starting next Saturday, and would love to give it a try if the wind is right. I will have a crew, so I don't have to attempt it alone.

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Tom, Can you use your drifter with a CDI furler? If so, do you have the measurments for it? Thanks, Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Smith To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 6:52 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Drifter Well, I'd advise you not use a drifter in over 5-8 mph. It's meant just what it says--drifting breezes. I use one on my M17 (used one to great effect on my M15 as well--about the only time an M15 will walk away from an M17...). Mounts up just like a great big genoa, which in fact it really is. You can sheet it in tight and sail close to the wind, and pole it out on a run. Works great. Wind pipes up and it becomes a handful. I sail single handed with mine all the time. But remember, very mild conditions. t On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 6:45 PM, Daniel Lloyd <dantheman@inbox.com> wrote:

i have one too with all the hardware but i too have no idea how to use it. i took it out once, looked at it for a few minutes and decided to not use it. if you figure it out please share

Daniel

...

-----Original Message----- From: danielgrich@gmail.com Sent: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 18:35:26 -0700 To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: Drifter

Montypals:

So, M15 Kestrel has a drifter, and appears to have all the deck hardware to use it including blocks all the way back on the stern pulpit, whisker pole etc. So, how do I rig the son of a gun? I've been told it is a handful. I'll be in Santa Cruz for a week starting next Saturday, and would love to give it a try if the wind is right. I will have a crew, so I don't have to attempt it alone.

Daniel _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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____________________________________________________________ Send any screenshot to your friends in seconds... Works in all emails, instant messengers, blogs, forums and social networks. TRY IM TOOLPACK at http://www.imtoolpack.com/default.aspx?rc=if2 for FREE

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I don't have a furler, Joe, but I know you can use a drifter anyway. As Don says below, use the old jib halyard to hoist. I have a second hank installed a foot or so down from the head of the sail so I can use my downhaul. I've found that if I try to use the topmost hank, the sail jams when I need to douse it most. I imagine one of those bead loop thingees would work fine over the furled headsail. I just attach the tack of the sail to the bow fitting. My M15 had track installed on the toe rail, so I sheeted aft some distance. Don't remember exactly where, but I can dig up a pic of the setup and send it to you if you wish. And Don's right, you can easily sheet to the stern mooring cleat. You won't get and adjustment on the sheeting angle, but that's not a big deal. My M17 has track on the toe rail, of course, so I sheet it back pretty far as well. I said something about poling the sail out in my previous post on this subject. Probably not necessary, or even that good an idea because even a light pole will drag the drifter down--hand controlling the sail is more fun anyway. Like Don says, the drifter can be a handful. I looked a lot like a circus performer Saturday putting the sail up, and in front of a 40 foot Beneteau, to boot. I had the last laugh of course as I caught and passed the guy in very light air... t On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 7:43 AM, Don <sailmonty15@gmail.com> wrote:

Seems like after I bought the drifter for my M15, Jerry or someone else provided the following technique for sail controls.  Looked through the archives but didn't find anything.

I have a CDI furler so I hoist the drifter on the old jib halyard.  Sail controls are 1/8" line routed outside the shrouds to the back of the boat.  I didn't add any special blocks or cleats, just looped the line around the stern mooring cleat.   In the light, flukely air on the lake I kept them in hand to try to keep the sail full.  When I questioned the size of the control line, whoever it was said "if you can't control the sail comfortably with the 1/8" line its time to drop the sail."

I experimented attaching the tack to the bow fitting, both inside and outside the pulpit and even on top of the pulpit.  Occasionally tried running with two head sails.  Interesting, but lots of work.

Don M15-248 On 7/4/2011 6:55 AM, Joe Murphy wrote:

...

  Subject: Re: M_Boats: Drifter

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Hi Daniel, I frequentl flew a spinnaker single handed when cruising and new I had a long down wind run. I never formally set the boat up for a spinnaker and jury rigged things each time. The spinnaker is so small and since I only use it in light air a topping lift is not required. I do have a well place mast ring that has the spinnaker pole parallel to the water when the windward twinger is snug. Jury rig was as follows: - twingers were set up by using the small harken snatch blocks, and long thin line. With the block outside the shroud channel plate I would run the thin line through the gap between the chain plate and the channel and up to the jib cleats. - I have several running blocks on pigtails that I use for sheet/guy leads tied on to the stern cleats. - I use brummel hooks ( I think they call them sister hooks now ) on the tack corners of the spinnaker and on the sheets. The sheets hook together with the brummel hooks forward of the shroud you expect to launch from and run through the twinger blocks and the running blocks on the transom back to the cabin. - when ready to launch it bring the halyard around the forestay if neccessary. It may already be on the correct side. If it is not on the correct side you can pull the sheets to the windward side, the brummel hooks will slide around the forstay, attach the halyard forward of the hooks and pull it back around the forstay. - run your hands along the luff or leech to make sure the sail is not twisted. - attach the sheet, guy and halyard to the sail ( all of this is in the lee of the main on the lee side of the boat) - set the pole in the guy and the mast ring and then push the pole as far forward as you can. To the forstay is perfect. The pole may drop down to the deck but this is fine. - hoist away - pull on the guy to get the spinnaker to swing around a fill. Push the pole forward, it will be raised by the sail. Then adjust the pole twinger to the desired setting and cleat it off. All of this works single handed because I have a remote steering line that runs from the tiller through a running block on the starboard side(on a pigtail attached to an extra cleat on the coaming) all the way up to the bow though another running block attached to the deck cleat, back to another block on the port coaming and to the tiller. Make the line snug. I use an old mainsheet for this and it runs right next to the cabin entry so that you can stand in the cabin and steer, and manipulate all of the spinnaker gear. It doubles or triples the boat speed on a light wind day and adds a lot of pleasure to those of us who like fooling with lots of lines :-) Thanks Doug Kelch M15G #310 "Seas the Day" ________________________________ From: Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Mon, July 4, 2011 10:22:48 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Drifter Can't wait to try this when I have light winds. But I don't have light winds where I sail! Still no takers on the spinnaker setup? C'mon, somebody must have flown a spinnaker on an M15... Daniel On Jul 4, 2011, at 9:40 AM, Tom Smith wrote:

I don't have a furler, Joe, but I know you can use a drifter anyway. As Don says below, use the old jib halyard to hoist. I have a second hank installed a foot or so down from the head of the sail so I can use my downhaul. I've found that if I try to use the topmost hank, the sail jams when I need to douse it most. I imagine one of those bead loop thingees would work fine over the furled headsail. I just attach the tack of the sail to the bow fitting.

My M15 had track installed on the toe rail, so I sheeted aft some distance. Don't remember exactly where, but I can dig up a pic of the setup and send it to you if you wish. And Don's right, you can easily sheet to the stern mooring cleat. You won't get and adjustment on the sheeting angle, but that's not a big deal.

My M17 has track on the toe rail, of course, so I sheet it back pretty far as well.

I said something about poling the sail out in my previous post on this subject. Probably not necessary, or even that good an idea because even a light pole will drag the drifter down--hand controlling the sail is more fun anyway.

Like Don says, the drifter can be a handful. I looked a lot like a circus performer Saturday putting the sail up, and in front of a 40 foot Beneteau, to boot. I had the last laugh of course as I caught and passed the guy in very light air...

t

On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 7:43 AM, Don <sailmonty15@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Seems like after I bought the drifter for my M15, Jerry or someone else provided the following technique for sail controls. Looked through the archives but didn't find anything.

I have a CDI furler so I hoist the drifter on the old jib halyard. Sail controls are 1/8" line routed outside the shrouds to the back of the boat. I didn't add any special blocks or cleats, just looped the line around the stern mooring cleat. In the light, flukely air on the lake I kept them in hand to try to keep the sail full. When I questioned the size of the control line, whoever it was said "if you can't control the sail comfortably with the 1/8" line its time to drop the sail."

I experimented attaching the tack to the bow fitting, both inside and outside the pulpit and even on top of the pulpit. Occasionally tried running with two head sails. Interesting, but lots of work.

Don M15-248 On 7/4/2011 6:55 AM, Joe Murphy wrote:

...

Subject: Re: M_Boats: Drifter

_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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Twingers - they probably have a number of local names but in small boats, in the absence of a pole down haul, they are used to pull the guy down and control the luff tension/shape on the spinnaker. The simplest ones I have seen are merely open fairleads (polished hooks if you will) attached near the shroud to slip the guy under. Some racing boats use lines and blocks and cleats like I have suggested. This lets you adjust the tension a little. You could lash a hook to the shroud channels and this would work as well. So after you hoist and fill away slip the guy under the twinger, or tighten the twinger line depending on your implementation. When you jibe, hook the sheet under it's twinger, or pull in the twinger line and cleat it off. This keeps the sheet close so it is easier to get the pole hooked on. Then disconnect the pole from the mast, attach the pole to the old sheet (new guy), release the old guy from the pole and attach the pole to the mast. Then release the new sheets twinger. It's a lot of fun and with a well cut reaching spinnaker it feels like you can go quite a ways to windward even though you really aren't. Enjoy your first broach :-) Oh, by the way you should never tie a stopper knot in the sheets in case you have to let them fly. In an emergency they need to be fully detached from the boat. Thanks Doug ________________________________ From: Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Mon, July 4, 2011 2:13:37 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Spinnaker Now that is what I am talking about! OK, a few questions here, but I think I have the idea. First, I don't know what a twinger is, but I think you must be referring to the spinnaker sheets. I have read in my sailing books, so I have some idea here about what is going on. the sheets change name depending on which side is winward. So, the guy is on the windward side, as is the tack, and the sheet is on the lee side, as is the clew. Now, my boat appears already rigged with blocks for the spinnaker all the way back onto the stern pulpit. So, it looks like what I need to do is use some brummel hooks (good idea) for the sheets, and run them like this: Hook them together in front of the forestay with the brummel hooks. Run them aft outside the shrouds back to the stern blocks, then forward to the cam cleats that I have on my cowlings. They have built in fairleads, and rotate so they will face aft when used for this purpose. Now, I also will set up the halyard to a block on the fitting above my forestay. There isn't a block there now, but that is easily remedied. I understand what you are getting at when you mention the halyard on the lee side, and if it is on the wrong side, the ability to get it to the right side makes sense if I understand you correctly. So, when ready to hoist, I put the boat on a broad reach, unclip the brummels, hook them to the correct tack and clew, put the pole on the windward side on the guy and swing it forward, hook up the halyard, and hoist away, fill, and straighten it all out. I don't have such an elaborate steering setup like you do, but I just today installed a tillerclutch. Can't wait to try that. Now, it turns out that what I have is a whisker pole, not a spinnaker pole with hooks on both ends, so I will need to get one of those in order to try this. The whisker pole hooks directly to the clew, and that won't quite do it. Also, I figure I will try this with a crew the first time, so the steering will be less of an issue. Leave to a guy with a gaff rig to send the instructions! Thanks! Daniel On Jul 4, 2011, at 11:59 AM, Doug Kelch wrote:

Hi Daniel,

I frequentl flew a spinnaker single handed when cruising and new I had a long down wind run. I never formally set the boat up for a spinnaker and jury rigged

things each time.

The spinnaker is so small and since I only use it in light air a topping lift is

not required. I do have a well place mast ring that has the spinnaker pole parallel to the water when the windward twinger is snug.

Jury rig was as follows: - twingers were set up by using the small harken snatch blocks, and long thin line. With the block outside the shroud channel plate I would run the thin line

through the gap between the chain plate and the channel and up to the jib cleats.

- I have several running blocks on pigtails that I use for sheet/guy leads tied

on to the stern cleats. - I use brummel hooks ( I think they call them sister hooks now ) on the tack corners of the spinnaker and on the sheets. The sheets hook together with the brummel hooks forward of the shroud you expect to launch from and run through the twinger blocks and the running blocks on the transom back to the cabin. - when ready to launch it bring the halyard around the forestay if neccessary.

It may already be on the correct side. If it is not on the correct side you can

pull the sheets to the windward side, the brummel hooks will slide around the forstay, attach the halyard forward of the hooks and pull it back around the forstay. - run your hands along the luff or leech to make sure the sail is not twisted. - attach the sheet, guy and halyard to the sail ( all of this is in the lee of

the main on the lee side of the boat) - set the pole in the guy and the mast ring and then push the pole as far forward as you can. To the forstay is perfect. The pole may drop down to the

deck but this is fine. - hoist away - pull on the guy to get the spinnaker to swing around a fill. Push the pole forward, it will be raised by the sail. Then adjust the pole twinger to the desired setting and cleat it off.

All of this works single handed because I have a remote steering line that runs

from the tiller through a running block on the starboard side(on a pigtail attached to an extra cleat on the coaming) all the way up to the bow though another running block attached to the deck cleat, back to another block on the

port coaming and to the tiller. Make the line snug. I use an old mainsheet for

this and it runs right next to the cabin entry so that you can stand in the cabin and steer, and manipulate all of the spinnaker gear.

It doubles or triples the boat speed on a light wind day and adds a lot of pleasure to those of us who like fooling with lots of lines :-)

Thanks

Doug Kelch M15G #310 "Seas the Day"

________________________________ From: Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Mon, July 4, 2011 10:22:48 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Drifter

Can't wait to try this when I have light winds. But I don't have light winds where I sail!

Still no takers on the spinnaker setup?

C'mon, somebody must have flown a spinnaker on an M15...

Daniel On Jul 4, 2011, at 9:40 AM, Tom Smith wrote:

...

I don't have a furler, Joe, but I know you can use a drifter anyway. As Don says below, use the old jib halyard to hoist. I have a second hank installed a foot or so down from the head of the sail so I can use my downhaul. I've found that if I try to use the topmost hank, the sail jams when I need to douse it most. I imagine one of those bead loop thingees would work fine over the furled headsail. I just attach the tack of the sail to the bow fitting.

My M15 had track installed on the toe rail, so I sheeted aft some distance. Don't remember exactly where, but I can dig up a pic of the setup and send it to you if you wish. And Don's right, you can easily sheet to the stern mooring cleat. You won't get and adjustment on the sheeting angle, but that's not a big deal.

My M17 has track on the toe rail, of course, so I sheet it back pretty far as well.

I said something about poling the sail out in my previous post on this subject. Probably not necessary, or even that good an idea because even a light pole will drag the drifter down--hand controlling the sail is more fun anyway.

Like Don says, the drifter can be a handful. I looked a lot like a circus performer Saturday putting the sail up, and in front of a 40 foot Beneteau, to boot. I had the last laugh of course as I caught and passed the guy in very light air...

t

On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 7:43 AM, Don <sailmonty15@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Seems like after I bought the drifter for my M15, Jerry or someone else provided the following technique for sail controls. Looked through the archives but didn't find anything.

I have a CDI furler so I hoist the drifter on the old jib halyard. Sail controls are 1/8" line routed outside the shrouds to the back of the boat. I didn't add any special blocks or cleats, just looped the line around the stern mooring cleat. In the light, flukely air on the lake I kept them in hand to try to keep the sail full. When I questioned the size of the control line, whoever it was said "if you can't control the sail comfortably with the 1/8" line its time to drop the sail."

I experimented attaching the tack to the bow fitting, both inside and outside the pulpit and even on top of the pulpit. Occasionally tried running with two head sails. Interesting, but lots of work.

Don M15-248 On 7/4/2011 6:55 AM, Joe Murphy wrote:

...

Subject: Re: M_Boats: Drifter

_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!

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The pole should be about the J measurement on the foretriangle. On the M15 this is 4.6 ft so a 5 ft pole should work but it seems that mine is a little longer. I will measure it the next time I am at the boat. This could be a while since it is off season in the desert. I have seen some small boats mount a block 4 ft or so above the mast ring and run a line through this, attach the line to a clip, put a pad eye in the center of the spinnaker pole, attach a bungee cord to the clip and attach the bungee some where near the base of the mast, or run it to the base and then up to an attachment. The line part also goes down the mast to a cleat. This functions as a topping lift and downhaul but you still need the twinger. as it also pulls to the center line of the boat. In either case without a topping lift the pole is not attached to anything should you drop it in the water. I still have thoughts of flying the spinnaker on the gaffer but it does get complicated. First addition would be a topsail, and then a flying jib in addition to the two already there and if that is not enough then a spinnaker :-) Thanks Doug Kelch M15G #310 "Seas the Day" ________________________________ From: Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Mon, July 4, 2011 2:43:21 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Spinnaker Great info! OK, I have some prep work to do. How long should the spinnaker pole be? I can get one for under $100 from Annapolis sports as a kit that I can cut to size. I think I have the twinger idea. I think a hook might work nicely where you suggest. So, once I have the thing flying I can slip the guy under the hook, and then tighten or loosen the guy a bit from the rear cam cleat to adjust the tension and height of the tack and pole. Interesting. Not looking forward to broaching...but I'm sure I will do it! Hopefully I don't take on too much water or dismast... Daniel On Jul 4, 2011, at 2:37 PM, Doug Kelch wrote:

Twingers - they probably have a number of local names but in small boats, in the

absence of a pole down haul, they are used to pull the guy down and control the

luff tension/shape on the spinnaker.

The simplest ones I have seen are merely open fairleads (polished hooks if you

will) attached near the shroud to slip the guy under. Some racing boats use lines and blocks and cleats like I have suggested. This lets you adjust the tension a little. You could lash a hook to the shroud channels and this would work as well.

So after you hoist and fill away slip the guy under the twinger, or tighten the

twinger line depending on your implementation.

When you jibe, hook the sheet under it's twinger, or pull in the twinger line and cleat it off. This keeps the sheet close so it is easier to get the pole hooked on. Then disconnect the pole from the mast, attach the pole to the old

sheet (new guy), release the old guy from the pole and attach the pole to the mast. Then release the new sheets twinger.

It's a lot of fun and with a well cut reaching spinnaker it feels like you can

go quite a ways to windward even though you really aren't.

Enjoy your first broach :-)

Oh, by the way you should never tie a stopper knot in the sheets in case you have to let them fly. In an emergency they need to be fully detached from the

boat.

Thanks

Doug

________________________________ From: Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Mon, July 4, 2011 2:13:37 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Spinnaker

Now that is what I am talking about!

OK, a few questions here, but I think I have the idea.

First, I don't know what a twinger is, but I think you must be referring to the

spinnaker sheets. I have read in my sailing books, so I have some idea here about what is going on. the sheets change name depending on which side is winward. So, the guy is on the windward side, as is the tack, and the sheet is

on the lee side, as is the clew. Now, my boat appears already rigged with blocks

for the spinnaker all the way back onto the stern pulpit. So, it looks like what

I need to do is use some brummel hooks (good idea) for the sheets, and run them

like this:

Hook them together in front of the forestay with the brummel hooks. Run them aft

outside the shrouds back to the stern blocks, then forward to the cam cleats that I have on my cowlings. They have built in fairleads, and rotate so they will face aft when used for this purpose. Now, I also will set up the halyard to

a block on the fitting above my forestay. There isn't a block there now, but that is easily remedied. I understand what you are getting at when you mention

the halyard on the lee side, and if it is on the wrong side, the ability to get

it to the right side makes sense if I understand you correctly.

So, when ready to hoist, I put the boat on a broad reach, unclip the brummels,

hook them to the correct tack and clew, put the pole on the windward side on the

guy and swing it forward, hook up the halyard, and hoist away, fill, and straighten it all out. I don't have such an elaborate steering setup like you do, but I just today installed a tillerclutch. Can't wait to try that.

Now, it turns out that what I have is a whisker pole, not a spinnaker pole with

hooks on both ends, so I will need to get one of those in order to try this. The

whisker pole hooks directly to the clew, and that won't quite do it.

Also, I figure I will try this with a crew the first time, so the steering will

be less of an issue.

Leave to a guy with a gaff rig to send the instructions!

Thanks!

Daniel On Jul 4, 2011, at 11:59 AM, Doug Kelch wrote:

...

Hi Daniel,

I frequentl flew a spinnaker single handed when cruising and new I had a long

...

down wind run. I never formally set the boat up for a spinnaker and jury rigged

things each time.

The spinnaker is so small and since I only use it in light air a topping lift

...

is

not required. I do have a well place mast ring that has the spinnaker pole parallel to the water when the windward twinger is snug.

Jury rig was as follows: - twingers were set up by using the small harken snatch blocks, and long thin

...

line. With the block outside the shroud channel plate I would run the thin line

through the gap between the chain plate and the channel and up to the jib cleats.

- I have several running blocks on pigtails that I use for sheet/guy leads tied

on to the stern cleats. - I use brummel hooks ( I think they call them sister hooks now ) on the tack

...

corners of the spinnaker and on the sheets. The sheets hook together with the

...

brummel hooks forward of the shroud you expect to launch from and run through

...

the twinger blocks and the running blocks on the transom back to the cabin. - when ready to launch it bring the halyard around the forestay if neccessary.

...

It may already be on the correct side. If it is not on the correct side you can

pull the sheets to the windward side, the brummel hooks will slide around the

...

forstay, attach the halyard forward of the hooks and pull it back around the forstay. - run your hands along the luff or leech to make sure the sail is not twisted. - attach the sheet, guy and halyard to the sail ( all of this is in the lee of

...

the main on the lee side of the boat) - set the pole in the guy and the mast ring and then push the pole as far forward as you can. To the forstay is perfect. The pole may drop down to the

...

deck but this is fine. - hoist away - pull on the guy to get the spinnaker to swing around a fill. Push the pole forward, it will be raised by the sail. Then adjust the pole twinger to the desired setting and cleat it off.

All of this works single handed because I have a remote steering line that runs

from the tiller through a running block on the starboard side(on a pigtail attached to an extra cleat on the coaming) all the way up to the bow though another running block attached to the deck cleat, back to another block on the

...

port coaming and to the tiller. Make the line snug. I use an old mainsheet for

this and it runs right next to the cabin entry so that you can stand in the cabin and steer, and manipulate all of the spinnaker gear.

It doubles or triples the boat speed on a light wind day and adds a lot of pleasure to those of us who like fooling with lots of lines :-)

Thanks

Doug Kelch M15G #310 "Seas the Day"

________________________________ From: Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Mon, July 4, 2011 10:22:48 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Drifter

Can't wait to try this when I have light winds. But I don't have light winds where I sail!

Still no takers on the spinnaker setup?

C'mon, somebody must have flown a spinnaker on an M15...

Daniel On Jul 4, 2011, at 9:40 AM, Tom Smith wrote:

...

I don't have a furler, Joe, but I know you can use a drifter anyway. As Don says below, use the old jib halyard to hoist. I have a second hank installed a foot or so down from the head of the sail so I can use my downhaul. I've found that if I try to use the topmost hank, the sail jams when I need to douse it most. I imagine one of those bead loop thingees would work fine over the furled headsail. I just attach the tack of the sail to the bow fitting.

My M15 had track installed on the toe rail, so I sheeted aft some distance. Don't remember exactly where, but I can dig up a pic of the setup and send it to you if you wish. And Don's right, you can easily sheet to the stern mooring cleat. You won't get and adjustment on the sheeting angle, but that's not a big deal.

My M17 has track on the toe rail, of course, so I sheet it back pretty far as well.

I said something about poling the sail out in my previous post on this subject. Probably not necessary, or even that good an idea because even a light pole will drag the drifter down--hand controlling the sail is more fun anyway.

Like Don says, the drifter can be a handful. I looked a lot like a circus performer Saturday putting the sail up, and in front of a 40 foot Beneteau, to boot. I had the last laugh of course as I caught and passed the guy in very light air...

t

On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 7:43 AM, Don <sailmonty15@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Seems like after I bought the drifter for my M15, Jerry or someone else provided the following technique for sail controls. Looked through the archives but didn't find anything.

I have a CDI furler so I hoist the drifter on the old jib halyard. Sail controls are 1/8" line routed outside the shrouds to the back of the boat. I didn't add any special blocks or cleats, just looped the line around the stern mooring cleat. In the light, flukely air on the lake I kept them in hand to try to keep the sail full. When I questioned the size of the control line, whoever it was said "if you can't control the sail comfortably with the 1/8" line its time to drop the sail."

I experimented attaching the tack to the bow fitting, both inside and outside the pulpit and even on top of the pulpit. Occasionally tried running with two head sails. Interesting, but lots of work.

Don M15-248 On 7/4/2011 6:55 AM, Joe Murphy wrote:

...

Subject: Re: M_Boats: Drifter

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Man, you really are here to save me! OK, most of the stuff is already set up on the boat, and I already have the chute, which looks really nice and is fairly small. Good for me, as I sail where there is usually good wind. I already have blocks aft that happen to be on the stern pulpit for the purpose of the chute, so all that stuff is ready. I have an adjustable track on the forward side of the mast with a ring on it for the pole. I don't have a spot for the foreguy, but perhaps rather than a block I can use a hook at the shrouds to hook the guy under which might accomplish the same thing? I already have blocks on the deck for routing the halyard, or anything else I want to route. This M15 was customized before I got it for sure. The only things missing to make this work are the spinnaker pole, topping lift setup for the pole, and the block for the halyard. The ring for the block is already there about 1.5 feet above the forestay attachment on the mast. Looks like there was a block there at some point because of the wear lines on the aluminum from the thing bouncing around at some point. I already park the main and jib halyard, and topping lift onto the current ring for trailering. Very convenient! Thanks for the great post. Once I have this all together and try it, I'll let you know how it works out! Daniel On 7/6/2011 10:36 AM, jerry wrote:

Daniel- I'm here to save you! I've rigged several 15's for chutes, and we even offered it as an option.

Pull the last bolt from the aft end of the aft toe rails, and grind or cut it to increase the angle to about 30 degrees. On each side mount a Harken 92 cheek block on the new cut in the rail. These are for the sheets. The sheets go forward from there to a cleat of some kind forward on the coamings; this is a good place for a regular jamb cleat so that you can sheet from either side. Mount a block or fairlead about in the middle of the deck for the foreguy and route the line back to the cockpit but don't rout it yet because you'll want to rout the foreguy and the halyard back together, side by side. The foreguy is the line that keeps the pole from skying, which it will surely do if you don't restrain it.

The halyard block should go on the forward side of the mast just above the hounds, and the halyard n eeds to go down the mast to a deck block at the base of the mast, then routed back to the cockpit, The same Harken 92's will work good for routing the lines around corners on their way to the cam cleats at the aft edge of the cabin top.

The 15 doesn't need much of a topping lift, and 1/4" bungee, attached about 6' up the mast will do. Attach a ring for the pole 3' up the mast, and if you make the bungee just long enough to pull it down to the ring comfortably it'll probably be about the right length. You can park the halyard, foreguy, and topping lift on the ring when not in use (also, the ring is a great place to park the main and jib halyard when trailering).

If you make the pole of tubing larger than one inch you can get away w/o bridles an d simply put an eye strap in the center of the pole, top and bottom, for the topping lift and foreguy. You can attach the trip lines to one or both of these eyes. I've forgotten what the J is for the 15, but 5'7" rings a bell, anmd if you live in an area where you have lots of wind, make the pole that length. If you live in an area where you have lots of drifters, you'll want a 200% chute and will need to make the pole about 8 or 10 " longer than that.

There's lots of info out there on how to operate a spinnaker, BUT:

1. The first time, do it in light air. Drop the jib and secure it to eliminate the complication. Take the chute down before you really need to! Start out by attaching the turtle (the bag that the chute somes in) to the bow pulpit, then progress to launching it from the shrouds. Retrieve the chute under the boom and directly into the cabin, and sort the sheets and halyard out later, after you get the boat moving and the pole is put away.

2. Any similar-sized chute will do! I still have the chute that I got 25 years ago from Skip Elliot for almost nothing because he made it for a local 470 sailor who didn/t like it. It looked great to me, and worked well. One night at the Long Beach show we used it to cover an old, ugly card table that had resin stains all over it. John Rogers, one of my old sailing buddies from Tucson, wandered by, flashed a flask of rotgut to me, and we crawled under the table and finished it off. Everyone should have a spinnaker! So if you have sailmakers in your area, they might have a chute for a totally different boat that might work fine.

Good luck.

jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Rich" <danielgrich@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 10:22 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Drifter

...

Can't wait to try this when I have light winds. But I don't have light winds where I sail!

Still no takers on the spinnaker setup?

C'mon, somebody must have flown a spinnaker on an M15...

Daniel On Jul 4, 2011, at 9:40 AM, Tom Smith wrote:

...

I don't have a furler, Joe, but I know you can use a drifter anyway. As Don says below, use the old jib halyard to hoist. I have a second hank installed a foot or so down from the head of the sail so I can use my downhaul. I've found that if I try to use the topmost hank, the sail jams when I need to douse it most. I imagine one of those bead loop thingees would work fine over the furled headsail. I just attach the tack of the sail to the bow fitting.

My M15 had track installed on the toe rail, so I sheeted aft some distance. Don't remember exactly where, but I can dig up a pic of the setup and send it to you if you wish. And Don's right, you can easily sheet to the stern mooring cleat. You won't get and adjustment on the sheeting angle, but that's not a big deal.

My M17 has track on the toe rail, of course, so I sheet it back pretty far as well.

I said something about poling the sail out in my previous post on this subject. Probably not necessary, or even that good an idea because even a light pole will drag the drifter down--hand controlling the sail is more fun anyway.

Like Don says, the drifter can be a handful. I looked a lot like a circus performer Saturday putting the sail up, and in front of a 40 foot Beneteau, to boot. I had the last laugh of course as I caught and passed the guy in very light air...

t

On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 7:43 AM, Don <sailmonty15@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Seems like after I bought the drifter for my M15, Jerry or someone else provided the following technique for sail controls. Looked through the archives but didn't find anything.

I have a CDI furler so I hoist the drifter on the old jib halyard. Sail controls are 1/8" line routed outside the shrouds to the back of the boat. I didn't add any special blocks or cleats, just looped the line around the stern mooring cleat. In the light, flukely air on the lake I kept them in hand to try to keep the sail full. When I questioned the size of the control line, whoever it was said "if you can't control the sail comfortably with the 1/8" line its time to drop the sail."

I experimented attaching the tack to the bow fitting, both inside and outside the pulpit and even on top of the pulpit. Occasionally tried running with two head sails. Interesting, but lots of work.

Don M15-248 On 7/4/2011 6:55 AM, Joe Murphy wrote:

...

Subject: Re: M_Boats: Drifter

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