This morning, while clearing out some space in my shop for the upcoming Sage 15 I found a dusty box with some old paperwork, including a notebook entitled “history of changes”. Some of this might be interesting to some of you. If not, you have a delete button. I’m leaving out quite a bit because I know that nobody cares! M-17- # of boats made: 1973 7 boats 1974 44 boats 75 32 boats incl 2 flushdecks 76 44 boats incl 2 flushdecks 77 43 boats incl 4 flushdecks 78 19 boats incl 1 flushdeck 79 and 80- 42 boats 81 19 boats 82 20 boats 83 20 boats, slowly dropping after that. (Note the big drop in 75 and 78- these were the two oil crises! Note that production was reduced from one per week to one boat per two weeks; several of these years we shut down between Thanksgiving to New Year’s due to lack of business. Interesting times. (‘m astounded that we first started the 17 tooling in early Spring and shipped the first boat in October. Impossible! 7 months! That’s what happens when you have lots of good help working on tooling 40 hours a week, which was easy to come by in Costa Mesa in those days. The big companies were laying off people). M-15: Started tooling in June 81, two of us made the plugs working nites and weekends, guys in the mold shop did most of the finishing and mold-making. We finished the first boat Oct of the same year. Again, amazing what lots of help can do. 5 months! 1980 11 boats 81 78 boats 82 41 boats 83 34 boats 84 38 boats 85 32 boats, slowly dropping after that. Intereasting to note that the high point in national production was in 74, just before the first gas crunch. The high in numbers of non-aux sailboats was 121K boats if my memory is correct, and by the mid 80’s it was below 10K. Few of us were smart enough to figure out what was happening for years! (damn- looks like we’re having another bad year. Maybe next year). In the meantime builders were dropping like flies. In Oct 83 I changed the port seat locker to like the 17; cut out the box for access into a bilge locker. Way better, but cost more to build. Decided to do that after my first crossing of the Gulf in a 15- because it became very obvious that the extra storage was worth its weight in gold. Summer 85; # 335, Added 50 lbs of trim ballast forward, making total of 75, then changed 50 of that to a steel plate to make more room for those who wanted to install an elect pkg. The notebook had sat in various boxes in various places for almost 30 years and is quite tattered and some of the info was indecipherable, but it beats my memory! It’s been quite a trip. jerry -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. SPAMfighter has removed 7529 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len Do you have a slow PC? Try Free scan http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen
Jerry, that is history. Don't accidentally burn that book. Have it copied, or photographed page by page. Did that with my Dad's WW2 flight log books. Thanks so much for sharing. Would like to hear more thoughts on it. Column in SCA? Hell, maybe Sail mag would want to do a write up on it/you. "2013 Best old Goat". Keep on keepin' on man. On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 7:00 PM, jerry montgomery <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org>wrote:
This morning, while clearing out some space in my shop for the upcoming Sage 15 I found a dusty box with some old paperwork, including a notebook entitled “history of changes”. Some of this might be interesting to some of you. If not, you have a delete button. I’m leaving out quite a bit because I know that nobody cares!
M-17- # of boats made:
1973 7 boats
1974 44 boats
75 32 boats incl 2 flushdecks
76 44 boats incl 2 flushdecks
77 43 boats incl 4 flushdecks
78 19 boats incl 1 flushdeck
79 and 80- 42 boats
81 19 boats
82 20 boats
83 20 boats, slowly dropping after that.
(Note the big drop in 75 and 78- these were the two oil crises! Note that production was reduced from one per week to one boat per two weeks; several of these years we shut down between Thanksgiving to New Year’s due to lack of business. Interesting times. (‘m astounded that we first started the 17 tooling in early Spring and shipped the first boat in October. Impossible! 7 months! That’s what happens when you have lots of good help working on tooling 40 hours a week, which was easy to come by in Costa Mesa in those days. The big companies were laying off people).
M-15: Started tooling in June 81, two of us made the plugs working nites and weekends, guys in the mold shop did most of the finishing and mold-making. We finished the first boat Oct of the same year. Again, amazing what lots of help can do. 5 months!
1980 11 boats
81 78 boats
82 41 boats
83 34 boats
84 38 boats
85 32 boats, slowly dropping after that.
Intereasting to note that the high point in national production was in 74, just before the first gas crunch. The high in numbers of non-aux sailboats was 121K boats if my memory is correct, and by the mid 80’s it was below 10K. Few of us were smart enough to figure out what was happening for years! (damn- looks like we’re having another bad year. Maybe next year). In the meantime builders were dropping like flies.
In Oct 83 I changed the port seat locker to like the 17; cut out the box for access into a bilge locker. Way better, but cost more to build. Decided to do that after my first crossing of the Gulf in a 15- because it became very obvious that the extra storage was worth its weight in gold.
Summer 85; # 335, Added 50 lbs of trim ballast forward, making total of 75, then changed 50 of that to a steel plate to make more room for those who wanted to install an elect pkg.
The notebook had sat in various boxes in various places for almost 30 years and is quite tattered and some of the info was indecipherable, but it beats my memory! It’s been quite a trip.
jerry
-- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. SPAMfighter has removed 7529 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len
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Hello all, I had a warm day yesterday and started stripping off some of the ash slats along the interior of the port side hull. There was an obvious area of molded rotted wood that I planned on replacing. I knew there was a leak at the hull to deck joint but did not appreciate the extent of the damage until I got into removal. Most of the port side is now bare (had to saw off the shelf as it was glassed to the hull :-( ) but it is obvious now that the previous leak repair attempts during the history of the boat have not worked and the joint is probably still leaking a good bit. I had some previous advice on caulking the toe rail in place but did not attempt any repairs. I now have to. I would like to any advice based on experience you all have on rebedding the toe rail and rebedding the hull to deck joint. Or just doing the patch of caulking the toe rail at the area in question with the addition of some drain holes to prevent the standing water that leads to all this issue. The toe rail on the M-23 is bolted from the side where as on the M-17 I think it was from the top. So I believe the M-23 joint is inward turning pr cap flange whereas my M-17 was obviously outward. Mucking at all with the toe rail screws is going to be a pain as there are lots of them (around 70 per side) and the previous owners slopped paint and caulk all over the nuts and screws inside..... I like working on the boat but am not looking for major projects as there are many other maintenance issues that should be done this off season so what do you all think the good enough solution would be? Thanks! Robbin M-23 and M-10
Robin- You're not going to like hearing this, but i'd take the toe rail off, clean everyting up, and re-install it, bedding it well. If you'll mask both sides off before removing the rails it'll help in the final cleanup. I'd buy new screws if they're the slightest bit buggered. They're #10-32 oval heads. Much better screws that are available nowdays are the ones with allen heads, or better yet square socket heads. They don't strip nearly as badly. They might be hard to find but they're out there. They'll be way easier to get off when you have do the same thing in another 35 years- look forward to it! use good polyurethane bedding. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robbin Roddewig" <robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 6:55 AM Subject: M_Boats: advice on re-bedding hull to deck joint
Hello all, I had a warm day yesterday and started stripping off some of the ash slats along the interior of the port side hull. There was an obvious area of molded rotted wood that I planned on replacing. I knew there was a leak at the hull to deck joint but did not appreciate the extent of the damage until I got into removal. Most of the port side is now bare (had to saw off the shelf as it was glassed to the hull :-( ) but it is obvious now that the previous leak repair attempts during the history of the boat have not worked and the joint is probably still leaking a good bit. I had some previous advice on caulking the toe rail in place but did not attempt any repairs. I now have to. I would like to any advice based on experience you all have on rebedding the toe rail and rebedding the hull to deck joint. Or just doing the patch of caulking the toe rail at the area in question with the addition of some drain holes to prevent the standing water that leads to all this issue. The toe rail on the M-23 is bolted from the side where as on the M-17 I think it was from the top. So I believe the M-23 joint is inward turning pr cap flange whereas my M-17 was obviously outward.
Mucking at all with the toe rail screws is going to be a pain as there are lots of them (around 70 per side) and the previous owners slopped paint and caulk all over the nuts and screws inside..... I like working on the boat but am not looking for major projects as there are many other maintenance issues that should be done this off season so what do you all think the good enough solution would be?
Thanks!
Robbin M-23 and M-10
-- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. SPAMfighter has removed 7535 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len Do you have a slow PC? Try Free scan http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen
Thanks Jerry, I appreciate your response. What a great idea to not replace the screws with the current phillips head (I planned on replacing but would have simply got a bunch of phillips head). Some are stripped already I can see so a square drive or allen is a great improvement. Fastenal has some good choices for square drive 10-24 but I will keep looking. Thanks Robbin On 12/9/2012 2:22 PM, jerry montgomery wrote:
Robin- You're not going to like hearing this, but i'd take the toe rail off, clean everyting up, and re-install it, bedding it well. If you'll mask both sides off before removing the rails it'll help in the final cleanup. I'd buy new screws if they're the slightest bit buggered. They're #10-32 oval heads. Much better screws that are available nowdays are the ones with allen heads, or better yet square socket heads. They don't strip nearly as badly. They might be hard to find but they're out there. They'll be way easier to get off when you have do the same thing in another 35 years- look forward to it! use good polyurethane bedding.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robbin Roddewig" <robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 6:55 AM Subject: M_Boats: advice on re-bedding hull to deck joint
Hello all, I had a warm day yesterday and started stripping off some of the ash slats along the interior of the port side hull. There was an obvious area of molded rotted wood that I planned on replacing. I knew there was a leak at the hull to deck joint but did not appreciate the extent of the damage until I got into removal. Most of the port side is now bare (had to saw off the shelf as it was glassed to the hull :-( ) but it is obvious now that the previous leak repair attempts during the history of the boat have not worked and the joint is probably still leaking a good bit. I had some previous advice on caulking the toe rail in place but did not attempt any repairs. I now have to. I would like to any advice based on experience you all have on rebedding the toe rail and rebedding the hull to deck joint. Or just doing the patch of caulking the toe rail at the area in question with the addition of some drain holes to prevent the standing water that leads to all this issue. The toe rail on the M-23 is bolted from the side where as on the M-17 I think it was from the top. So I believe the M-23 joint is inward turning pr cap flange whereas my M-17 was obviously outward.
Mucking at all with the toe rail screws is going to be a pain as there are lots of them (around 70 per side) and the previous owners slopped paint and caulk all over the nuts and screws inside..... I like working on the boat but am not looking for major projects as there are many other maintenance issues that should be done this off season so what do you all think the good enough solution would be?
Thanks!
Robbin M-23 and M-10
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See if you can get 10-32's- strtonger amnd all the nuts on the bote will be the same! Definately get nylock nuts. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robbin Roddewig" <robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 1:37 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: advice on re-bedding hull to deck joint
Thanks Jerry, I appreciate your response. What a great idea to not replace the screws with the current phillips head (I planned on replacing but would have simply got a bunch of phillips head). Some are stripped already I can see so a square drive or allen is a great improvement. Fastenal has some good choices for square drive 10-24 but I will keep looking.
Thanks Robbin
On 12/9/2012 2:22 PM, jerry montgomery wrote:
Robin- You're not going to like hearing this, but i'd take the toe rail off, clean everyting up, and re-install it, bedding it well. If you'll mask both sides off before removing the rails it'll help in the final cleanup. I'd buy new screws if they're the slightest bit buggered. They're #10-32 oval heads. Much better screws that are available nowdays are the ones with allen heads, or better yet square socket heads. They don't strip nearly as badly. They might be hard to find but they're out there. They'll be way easier to get off when you have do the same thing in another 35 years- look forward to it! use good polyurethane bedding.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robbin Roddewig" <robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 6:55 AM Subject: M_Boats: advice on re-bedding hull to deck joint
Hello all, I had a warm day yesterday and started stripping off some of the ash slats along the interior of the port side hull. There was an obvious area of molded rotted wood that I planned on replacing. I knew there was a leak at the hull to deck joint but did not appreciate the extent of the damage until I got into removal. Most of the port side is now bare (had to saw off the shelf as it was glassed to the hull :-( ) but it is obvious now that the previous leak repair attempts during the history of the boat have not worked and the joint is probably still leaking a good bit. I had some previous advice on caulking the toe rail in place but did not attempt any repairs. I now have to. I would like to any advice based on experience you all have on rebedding the toe rail and rebedding the hull to deck joint. Or just doing the patch of caulking the toe rail at the area in question with the addition of some drain holes to prevent the standing water that leads to all this issue. The toe rail on the M-23 is bolted from the side where as on the M-17 I think it was from the top. So I believe the M-23 joint is inward turning pr cap flange whereas my M-17 was obviously outward.
Mucking at all with the toe rail screws is going to be a pain as there are lots of them (around 70 per side) and the previous owners slopped paint and caulk all over the nuts and screws inside..... I like working on the boat but am not looking for major projects as there are many other maintenance issues that should be done this off season so what do you all think the good enough solution would be?
Thanks!
Robbin M-23 and M-10
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I care. We have a 15 and a 17. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "jerry montgomery" <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> To: "montgomery forum" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, December 7, 2012 6:00:24 PM Subject: M_Boats: (no subject) This morning, while clearing out some space in my shop for the upcoming Sage 15 I found a dusty box with some old paperwork, including a notebook entitled “history of changes”. Some of this might be interesting to some of you. If not, you have a delete button. I’m leaving out quite a bit because I know that nobody cares! M-17- # of boats made: 1973 7 boats 1974 44 boats 75 32 boats incl 2 flushdecks 76 44 boats incl 2 flushdecks 77 43 boats incl 4 flushdecks 78 19 boats incl 1 flushdeck 79 and 80- 42 boats 81 19 boats 82 20 boats 83 20 boats, slowly dropping after that. (Note the big drop in 75 and 78- these were the two oil crises! Note that production was reduced from one per week to one boat per two weeks; several of these years we shut down between Thanksgiving to New Year’s due to lack of business. Interesting times. (‘m astounded that we first started the 17 tooling in early Spring and shipped the first boat in October. Impossible! 7 months! That’s what happens when you have lots of good help working on tooling 40 hours a week, which was easy to come by in Costa Mesa in those days. The big companies were laying off people). M-15: Started tooling in June 81, two of us made the plugs working nites and weekends, guys in the mold shop did most of the finishing and mold-making. We finished the first boat Oct of the same year. Again, amazing what lots of help can do. 5 months! 1980 11 boats 81 78 boats 82 41 boats 83 34 boats 84 38 boats 85 32 boats, slowly dropping after that. Intereasting to note that the high point in national production was in 74, just before the first gas crunch. The high in numbers of non-aux sailboats was 121K boats if my memory is correct, and by the mid 80’s it was below 10K. Few of us were smart enough to figure out what was happening for years! (damn- looks like we’re having another bad year. Maybe next year). In the meantime builders were dropping like flies. In Oct 83 I changed the port seat locker to like the 17; cut out the box for access into a bilge locker. Way better, but cost more to build. Decided to do that after my first crossing of the Gulf in a 15- because it became very obvious that the extra storage was worth its weight in gold. Summer 85; # 335, Added 50 lbs of trim ballast forward, making total of 75, then changed 50 of that to a steel plate to make more room for those who wanted to install an elect pkg. The notebook had sat in various boxes in various places for almost 30 years and is quite tattered and some of the info was indecipherable, but it beats my memory! It’s been quite a trip. jerry -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. SPAMfighter has removed 7529 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len Do you have a slow PC? Try Free scan http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen
participants (4)
-
Bill Wickett -
jeo28＠frontier.com -
jerry montgomery -
Robbin Roddewig