Lots of progress on my M17 #248 the last couple of days. In addition to bow to stern cleaning outside/inside I took off mast/standing rigging and inspected and all looks good. I had some inspiration last night to use a heavy polish compound to the heavily oxidized hull to see how well it would work and 4 hours later the hull looks incredible. I’ll leave it as is for now with a polish/wax next spring. The boat is going to a local sandblaster expert tonight for a bottom 3-4 layer paint removal. I’ll seal up a couple through hulls then put a bottom barrier on over winter. I would like to reseal the deck joint since it probably is due for it. Any recommendations as far as that project is concerned? Thanks Erik Sent from my iPhone
Take off the rub rail. Inspect, use an end cutting tool to clean out any suspicious areas. I found none on my hull #258. I replaced the perforated rail with washers under all the nuts. It served to more securely clamp the hull to deck. I did have to put a bend in the washers so they would fit behind the bolts. Tedious but worth the peace of mind. If there is no evidence of water leaks inside, "don't fix it." Just plan on rebedding the rub rails as you rebolt them. <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Sun, Jun 26, 2022 at 10:22 AM E Blohm via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Lots of progress on my M17 #248 the last couple of days. In addition to bow to stern cleaning outside/inside I took off mast/standing rigging and inspected and all looks good.
I had some inspiration last night to use a heavy polish compound to the heavily oxidized hull to see how well it would work and 4 hours later the hull looks incredible. I’ll leave it as is for now with a polish/wax next spring.
The boat is going to a local sandblaster expert tonight for a bottom 3-4 layer paint removal. I’ll seal up a couple through hulls then put a bottom barrier on over winter.
I would like to reseal the deck joint since it probably is due for it. Any recommendations as far as that project is concerned?
Thanks
Erik
Sent from my iPhone
The hull deck joint is bonded together- there is no sealant. If the interior liner and or joint shows evidence of leaking, it is worth investigating. Is the material at the interior cracked/stained/showing signs of water entering? Photo is of bonding material at interior joint of hull #316. Note stains and cracks. The cracked material, in this case was smeared with some flexible sealant. The polyester/cabosil material was removed and replaced, removal achieved by cutting the material at the exterior of the joint with a 1” diamond wheel using a Dremel. Carefully cut the material between the hull/deck, not the part flanges. A ‘5 in one’ tool was inserted between the parts and with light hammering, the majority of the bonding material fractured away from the parts (hull/deck). Cabosil bonding material was removed from joint, the area was abraded with a nylon flex wheel to clean flanges while they were wedge apart for clearance. Syringe(s) were used to fill joint area prior to clamping flanges (do not over clamp and starve the joint of adhesive!!) In my case I used West System 655 adhesive. Joint was liberally filled from the exterior, then interior seam was syringe filled and faired to the interior deck and hull liner. On Sun, Jun 26, 2022 at 8:22 AM E Blohm via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Lots of progress on my M17 #248 the last couple of days. In addition to bow to stern cleaning outside/inside I took off mast/standing rigging and inspected and all looks good.
I had some inspiration last night to use a heavy polish compound to the heavily oxidized hull to see how well it would work and 4 hours later the hull looks incredible. I’ll leave it as is for now with a polish/wax next spring.
The boat is going to a local sandblaster expert tonight for a bottom 3-4 layer paint removal. I’ll seal up a couple through hulls then put a bottom barrier on over winter.
I would like to reseal the deck joint since it probably is due for it. Any recommendations as far as that project is concerned?
Thanks
Erik
Sent from my iPhone
Thanks guys! There is no evidence of water intrusion along joint. Maybe just beef it up with the washer suggestion! Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 26, 2022, at 13:01, Gary H.Oberbeck <fairandsquare1@gmail.com> wrote:
The hull deck joint is bonded together- there is no sealant. If the interior liner and or joint shows evidence of leaking, it is worth investigating. Is the material at the interior cracked/stained/showing signs of water entering? Photo is of bonding material at interior joint of hull #316. Note stains and cracks. The cracked material, in this case was smeared with some flexible sealant. The polyester/cabosil material was removed and replaced, removal achieved by cutting the material at the exterior of the joint with a 1” diamond wheel using a Dremel. Carefully cut the material between the hull/deck, not the part flanges. A ‘5 in one’ tool was inserted between the parts and with light hammering, the majority of the bonding material fractured away from the parts (hull/deck). Cabosil bonding material was removed from joint, the area was abraded with a nylon flex wheel to clean flanges while they were wedge apart for clearance. Syringe(s) were used to fill joint area prior to clamping flanges (do not over clamp and starve the joint of adhesive!!) In my case I used West System 655 adhesive. Joint was liberally filled from the exterior, then interior seam was syringe filled and faired to the interior deck and hull liner.
On Sun, Jun 26, 2022 at 8:22 AM E Blohm via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Lots of progress on my M17 #248 the last couple of days. In addition to bow to stern cleaning outside/inside I took off mast/standing rigging and inspected and all looks good.
I had some inspiration last night to use a heavy polish compound to the heavily oxidized hull to see how well it would work and 4 hours later the hull looks incredible. I’ll leave it as is for now with a polish/wax next spring.
The boat is going to a local sandblaster expert tonight for a bottom 3-4 layer paint removal. I’ll seal up a couple through hulls then put a bottom barrier on over winter.
I would like to reseal the deck joint since it probably is due for it. Any recommendations as far as that project is concerned?
Thanks
Erik
Sent from my iPhone
Sorry, I have to step in, but 1st understand that I’m in S. Africa just now and have limited continuity and likely missed messages. Did Gary or anyone mention removing the rails before this strenuous operation. Or re drilling, or all the bs gary went thru to get it right. He did an awesome job. I’ll bet Gary said To himself“I need to do a great job here so I don’t ever need to do it again”. I estimate a boatyard would bid about $10,000. For that repair. So yes it’s very doable not the end of the world, and achievable by an average guy/gal. But Gary ain’t average he’s done dozens of tough boat fixes over the years . Sean M. same thing and tons of others. Ok, I’m ranting a bit, too much coffee maybe. I think it boils down to if it ain’t broke don’t fix it, if you got a boat as a project cool, but if you want to sail, make sure the rig stays in and go sailing. Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 26, 2022, at 7:02 PM, Gary H.Oberbeck <fairandsquare1@gmail.com> wrote:
via
Stan thanks for input. I have no leaking from hull joint within the boat so I think what I am going to do. Remove metal rub rail and if everything checks good, cleaning it out if needed and adding a bead of 4200 to seam. Reinstall Rubrail with washers to spread the load from the joining bolts out a bit. Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 26, 2022, at 15:32, Stan Susman <stanpfa@pacbell.net> wrote:
Sorry, I have to step in, but 1st understand that I’m in S. Africa just now and have limited continuity and likely missed messages. Did Gary or anyone mention removing the rails before this strenuous operation. Or re drilling, or all the bs gary went thru to get it right. He did an awesome job. I’ll bet Gary said To himself“I need to do a great job here so I don’t ever need to do it again”. I estimate a boatyard would bid about $10,000. For that repair. So yes it’s very doable not the end of the world, and achievable by an average guy/gal. But Gary ain’t average he’s done dozens of tough boat fixes over the years . Sean M. same thing and tons of others. Ok, I’m ranting a bit, too much coffee maybe. I think it boils down to if it ain’t broke don’t fix it, if you got a boat as a project cool, but if you want to sail, make sure the rig stays in and go sailing.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 26, 2022, at 7:02 PM, Gary H.Oberbeck <fairandsquare1@gmail.com> wrote:
via
You might find that there are extra holes in the flange that don't line up with the toe rail mounting holes. These were apparently used in initial construction to align the deck and hull. Be sure to fill these. Henry On Sun, Jun 26, 2022, 7:42 PM E Blohm via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Stan thanks for input.
I have no leaking from hull joint within the boat so I think what I am going to do.
Remove metal rub rail and if everything checks good, cleaning it out if needed and adding a bead of 4200 to seam. Reinstall Rubrail with washers to spread the load from the joining bolts out a bit.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 26, 2022, at 15:32, Stan Susman <stanpfa@pacbell.net> wrote:
Sorry, I have to step in, but 1st understand that I’m in S. Africa just now and have limited continuity and likely missed messages. Did Gary or anyone mention removing the rails before this strenuous operation. Or re drilling, or all the bs gary went thru to get it right. He did an awesome job. I’ll bet Gary said To himself“I need to do a great job here so I don’t ever need to do it again”. I estimate a boatyard would bid about $10,000. For that repair. So yes it’s very doable not the end of the world, and achievable by an average guy/gal. But Gary ain’t average he’s done dozens of tough boat fixes over the years . Sean M. same thing and tons of others. Ok, I’m ranting a bit, too much coffee maybe. I think it boils down to if it ain’t broke don’t fix it, if you got a boat as a project cool, but if you want to sail, make sure the rig stays in and go sailing.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 26, 2022, at 7:02 PM, Gary H.Oberbeck <fairandsquare1@gmail.com> wrote:
via
Yes. I was wondering about those! I’m guessing epoxy is best for that. Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 26, 2022, at 21:29, Henry Rodriguez <heinzir@gmail.com> wrote:
You might find that there are extra holes in the flange that don't line up with the toe rail mounting holes. These were apparently used in initial construction to align the deck and hull. Be sure to fill these.
Henry
On Sun, Jun 26, 2022, 7:42 PM E Blohm via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Stan thanks for input.
I have no leaking from hull joint within the boat so I think what I am going to do.
Remove metal rub rail and if everything checks good, cleaning it out if needed and adding a bead of 4200 to seam. Reinstall Rubrail with washers to spread the load from the joining bolts out a bit.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 26, 2022, at 15:32, Stan Susman <stanpfa@pacbell.net> wrote:
Sorry, I have to step in, but 1st understand that I’m in S. Africa just now and have limited continuity and likely missed messages. Did Gary or anyone mention removing the rails before this strenuous operation. Or re drilling, or all the bs gary went thru to get it right. He did an awesome job. I’ll bet Gary said To himself“I need to do a great job here so I don’t ever need to do it again”. I estimate a boatyard would bid about $10,000. For that repair. So yes it’s very doable not the end of the world, and achievable by an average guy/gal. But Gary ain’t average he’s done dozens of tough boat fixes over the years . Sean M. same thing and tons of others. Ok, I’m ranting a bit, too much coffee maybe. I think it boils down to if it ain’t broke don’t fix it, if you got a boat as a project cool, but if you want to sail, make sure the rig stays in and go sailing.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 26, 2022, at 7:02 PM, Gary H.Oberbeck <fairandsquare1@gmail.com> wrote:
via
It’s your boat, your time, but in my opinion that rail is more likely to leak if you unbolt it. Ask gary how fun it is putting that back on. If only I could tell you how many boat get wasted when an owner starts fixing unbroken stuff. That where 500 dollar boats come from. Smear varnish on the teak if you need something to do, that’s hard enough. Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 27, 2022, at 2:42 AM, E Blohm via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Stan thanks for input.
I have no leaking from hull joint within the boat so I think what I am going to do.
Remove metal rub rail and if everything checks good, cleaning it out if needed and adding a bead of 4200 to seam. Reinstall Rubrail with washers to spread the load from the joining bolts out a bit.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 26, 2022, at 15:32, Stan Susman <stanpfa@pacbell.net> wrote:
Sorry, I have to step in, but 1st understand that I’m in S. Africa just now and have limited continuity and likely missed messages. Did Gary or anyone mention removing the rails before this strenuous operation. Or re drilling, or all the bs gary went thru to get it right. He did an awesome job. I’ll bet Gary said To himself“I need to do a great job here so I don’t ever need to do it again”. I estimate a boatyard would bid about $10,000. For that repair. So yes it’s very doable not the end of the world, and achievable by an average guy/gal. But Gary ain’t average he’s done dozens of tough boat fixes over the years . Sean M. same thing and tons of others. Ok, I’m ranting a bit, too much coffee maybe. I think it boils down to if it ain’t broke don’t fix it, if you got a boat as a project cool, but if you want to sail, make sure the rig stays in and go sailing.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 26, 2022, at 7:02 PM, Gary H.Oberbeck <fairandsquare1@gmail.com> wrote:
via
Yeah I went down a rabbit hole last night reading about hull deck joints and I came to that same conclusion! If it isn’t broke leave well enough alone! I’ll sail it next season and see how it goes. Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 27, 2022, at 06:52, Stan Susman <stanpfa@pacbell.net> wrote:
It’s your boat, your time, but in my opinion that rail is more likely to leak if you unbolt it. Ask gary how fun it is putting that back on. If only I could tell you how many boat get wasted when an owner starts fixing unbroken stuff. That where 500 dollar boats come from. Smear varnish on the teak if you need something to do, that’s hard enough.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 27, 2022, at 2:42 AM, E Blohm via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Stan thanks for input.
I have no leaking from hull joint within the boat so I think what I am going to do.
Remove metal rub rail and if everything checks good, cleaning it out if needed and adding a bead of 4200 to seam. Reinstall Rubrail with washers to spread the load from the joining bolts out a bit.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 26, 2022, at 15:32, Stan Susman <stanpfa@pacbell.net> wrote:
Sorry, I have to step in, but 1st understand that I’m in S. Africa just now and have limited continuity and likely missed messages. Did Gary or anyone mention removing the rails before this strenuous operation. Or re drilling, or all the bs gary went thru to get it right. He did an awesome job. I’ll bet Gary said To himself“I need to do a great job here so I don’t ever need to do it again”. I estimate a boatyard would bid about $10,000. For that repair. So yes it’s very doable not the end of the world, and achievable by an average guy/gal. But Gary ain’t average he’s done dozens of tough boat fixes over the years . Sean M. same thing and tons of others. Ok, I’m ranting a bit, too much coffee maybe. I think it boils down to if it ain’t broke don’t fix it, if you got a boat as a project cool, but if you want to sail, make sure the rig stays in and go sailing.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 26, 2022, at 7:02 PM, Gary H.Oberbeck <fairandsquare1@gmail.com> wrote:
via
I did the hull to deck joint on my former M-23. Jerry had recommended it as the sealant they used in the 70's was not meant to last 40-50 years. New sealant is much more advanced. Used 5200 as I hoped to never have it taken apart again. Was able to reef out the old sealant (I seem to recall the M's are a shoebox flange), pry open section at a time and replace. Also replaced all the screws with aviation grade stainless with square thread heads. These we available at McMaster, West marine or both. It is a lot of work but my joint was having issues so I did it. ThanksRobbinformer M-23,M-17,M-15,M-10 ... -----Original Message----- From: E Blohm via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Cc: E Blohm <eblohm@rocketmail.com> Sent: Sun, Jun 26, 2022 11:22 am Subject: M_Boats: Hull deck joint rehab. Lots of progress on my M17 #248 the last couple of days. In addition to bow to stern cleaning outside/inside I took off mast/standing rigging and inspected and all looks good. I had some inspiration last night to use a heavy polish compound to the heavily oxidized hull to see how well it would work and 4 hours later the hull looks incredible. I’ll leave it as is for now with a polish/wax next spring. The boat is going to a local sandblaster expert tonight for a bottom 3-4 layer paint removal. I’ll seal up a couple through hulls then put a bottom barrier on over winter. I would like to reseal the deck joint since it probably is due for it. Any recommendations as far as that project is concerned? Thanks Erik Sent from my iPhone
I also did the hull to deck joint on my M15. I ground out a few cm gap along the length of the joint, and covered with masking tape. I then used a syringe filled with thickened epoxy to inject into one end, and let it flow out an air hole on the opposite end. This worked great and seems to have sealed up the seam... but I'm still getting some leaking in heavy seas. I think I need to remove the teak rail and reseal the bolt holes as well. Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157 S/V Defiant ----- Original Message ----- From: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: eblohm@rocketmail.com, "Robbin Roddewig" <robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2022 8:37:34 AM Subject: M_Boats: Re: Hull deck joint rehab. I did the hull to deck joint on my former M-23. Jerry had recommended it as the sealant they used in the 70's was not meant to last 40-50 years. New sealant is much more advanced. Used 5200 as I hoped to never have it taken apart again. Was able to reef out the old sealant (I seem to recall the M's are a shoebox flange), pry open section at a time and replace. Also replaced all the screws with aviation grade stainless with square thread heads. These we available at McMaster, West marine or both. It is a lot of work but my joint was having issues so I did it. ThanksRobbinformer M-23,M-17,M-15,M-10 ... -----Original Message----- From: E Blohm via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Cc: E Blohm <eblohm@rocketmail.com> Sent: Sun, Jun 26, 2022 11:22 am Subject: M_Boats: Hull deck joint rehab. Lots of progress on my M17 #248 the last couple of days. In addition to bow to stern cleaning outside/inside I took off mast/standing rigging and inspected and all looks good. I had some inspiration last night to use a heavy polish compound to the heavily oxidized hull to see how well it would work and 4 hours later the hull looks incredible. I’ll leave it as is for now with a polish/wax next spring. The boat is going to a local sandblaster expert tonight for a bottom 3-4 layer paint removal. I’ll seal up a couple through hulls then put a bottom barrier on over winter. I would like to reseal the deck joint since it probably is due for it. Any recommendations as far as that project is concerned? Thanks Erik Sent from my iPhone
participants (7)
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casioqv＠usermail.com -
E Blohm -
Gary H.Oberbeck -
Henry Rodriguez -
Robbin Roddewig -
Stan Susman -
Thomas Buzzi