Wrinkle Boat Mates I normally sail single-handed but from time to time have someone along. I have found that even alone and sitting as far forward as I can weight distribution seems to tend to be too far aft. This is leading me to consider adding weight forward. I was thinking a cinder block (40 lbs) in the forward compartment under the V berth. Would I have to secure the weight? In addition I would like to extend the Tiller so that I can sit comfortable as far forward as possible against the cabin wall. I have a Tiller extender but it is articulated at the attachment joint and I would like to have an extension that is a removable solid extension of the tiller. Has any one constructed one or know of anything along that line. All comments welcomed. George Merry Helen II 96 M15 #602
On 20-Sep-14 12:46 PM, George R. Iemmolo wrote: Hi George, Been there: ... done that! I faced the same problems that you discuss sailing our M-15 #400 LEPPO solo. With the original length M-15 tiller, and a Forespar tiller extension, plugged into a fitting at the forward end of the tiller, the geometry didn't work as it should. Sitting as far forward in the cockpit as I could, the Forespar tiller extension now had about a 120 degree angle between the tiller location and my hand. Not good for sudden corrections when hit by a gust. What I wanted was a 90 degree angle on the tiller extension between the tiller and my hand. To achieve that, I built a new, longer tiller so that I could sit comfortably as far forward in the cockpit as I could. The longer tiller had other advantages as well. I built a new lower hatch board that held my 7 X 50 binoculars; my small Grundig radio; my marine VHF radio; and a can of beer, which meant that all these items were within easy reach of the helmsman while sailing. Inside the companionway and to port I also had a small eyeglass shelf so that I could easily reach my regular eyeglasses or swap them for my sun glasses. More goodness! Then, with the Forespar extension in place in the tiller, I had a 90 degree push / pull operation between the tiller and my hand. Goodness! However, .... There were times when I had the grandchildren on board, where the original length tiller would have been preferable to my new "cockpit sweeper" long tiller. My suggestion is: Dream up some means of elongating the regular length tiller with some sort of plug-in extension. My thinking goes in the direction of molding some fiberglass around the end of the existing tiller to form a tight fitting sleeve. Then you could add the tiller length extension to the sleeve, and would be a rigid entity that you could lean on if need be; and it would also be instantly removable. Another idea would be a piece of brass or copper tube, open on the bottom, that would fit over the end of the tiller. The tubing would take care of the side loads on the tiller. I could envision it being held in place by a long (6"?) strap on either side where you cut a slot in the bottom end of the strap to fit over a round headed screw shank. installed on either side of the tiller. Lift it up and it is removable; in position it would be rigid (at least that is the intent and goal) - and it would take push / pull tiller loads. If it is too loose, wrap a piece of bungee cord around the joint to hold it in place. Then you chave the best of both worlds: the short tiller for crowded cockpits, and the long tiller for solo sailing. In our M-15 #400 I carried my Fortress anchor plus chain and rode in the forward compartment to help trim the boat. I also stowed my 2 X 1 gallon water bottles as far forward as I could. I also rearranged things in the sail lockers to move the heavy items as far forward as I could. That helped the trim too. Connie ex M-15 #400 LEPPO
Wrinkle Boat Mates
I normally sail single-handed but from time to time have someone along. I have found that even alone and sitting as far forward as I can weight distribution seems to tend to be too far aft.
This is leading me to consider adding weight forward. I was thinking a cinder block (40 lbs) in the forward compartment under the V berth. Would I have to secure the weight? In addition I would like to extend the Tiller so that I can sit comfortable as far forward as possible against the cabin wall. I have a Tiller extender but it is articulated at the attachment joint and I would like to have an extension that is a removable solid extension of the tiller. Has any one constructed one or know of anything along that line.
All comments welcomed.
George
Merry Helen II
96 M15 #602
Connie Thanks for the swift feedback. I was thinking along the lines of a removable solid extension. Your suggestions are great and will be looked at seriously in my investigation. My sail locker is pretty bare I will move my ground tackle next visit to the boat (Slip @ local lake). I think my 40 lb. block that I use to support the boat & trailer when I am working in the driveway during spring preparations will work towards balancing the weight better. I have also thought about adding some fiddles on the back side of my bottom hatch board (3 pieces) to accommodate my wind meter, SPOT, Cell phone, drink holder, etc. My Winter project along with the tiller extender. Great Minds tend to think alike :-) George Merry Helen II 96 M15 #602 -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Conbert Benneck Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2014 1:42 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Weight Distribution/Tiller Extension On 20-Sep-14 12:46 PM, George R. Iemmolo wrote: Hi George, Been there: ... done that! I faced the same problems that you discuss sailing our M-15 #400 LEPPO solo. With the original length M-15 tiller, and a Forespar tiller extension, plugged into a fitting at the forward end of the tiller, the geometry didn't work as it should. Sitting as far forward in the cockpit as I could, the Forespar tiller extension now had about a 120 degree angle between the tiller location and my hand. Not good for sudden corrections when hit by a gust. What I wanted was a 90 degree angle on the tiller extension between the tiller and my hand. To achieve that, I built a new, longer tiller so that I could sit comfortably as far forward in the cockpit as I could. The longer tiller had other advantages as well. I built a new lower hatch board that held my 7 X 50 binoculars; my small Grundig radio; my marine VHF radio; and a can of beer, which meant that all these items were within easy reach of the helmsman while sailing. Inside the companionway and to port I also had a small eyeglass shelf so that I could easily reach my regular eyeglasses or swap them for my sun glasses. More goodness! Then, with the Forespar extension in place in the tiller, I had a 90 degree push / pull operation between the tiller and my hand. Goodness! However, .... There were times when I had the grandchildren on board, where the original length tiller would have been preferable to my new "cockpit sweeper" long tiller. My suggestion is: Dream up some means of elongating the regular length tiller with some sort of plug-in extension. My thinking goes in the direction of molding some fiberglass around the end of the existing tiller to form a tight fitting sleeve. Then you could add the tiller length extension to the sleeve, and would be a rigid entity that you could lean on if need be; and it would also be instantly removable. Another idea would be a piece of brass or copper tube, open on the bottom, that would fit over the end of the tiller. The tubing would take care of the side loads on the tiller. I could envision it being held in place by a long (6"?) strap on either side where you cut a slot in the bottom end of the strap to fit over a round headed screw shank. installed on either side of the tiller. Lift it up and it is removable; in position it would be rigid (at least that is the intent and goal) - and it would take push / pull tiller loads. If it is too loose, wrap a piece of bungee cord around the joint to hold it in place. Then you chave the best of both worlds: the short tiller for crowded cockpits, and the long tiller for solo sailing. In our M-15 #400 I carried my Fortress anchor plus chain and rode in the forward compartment to help trim the boat. I also stowed my 2 X 1 gallon water bottles as far forward as I could. I also rearranged things in the sail lockers to move the heavy items as far forward as I could. That helped the trim too. Connie ex M-15 #400 LEPPO
Wrinkle Boat Mates
I normally sail single-handed but from time to time have someone along. I have found that even alone and sitting as far forward as I can weight distribution seems to tend to be too far aft.
This is leading me to consider adding weight forward. I was thinking a cinder block (40 lbs) in the forward compartment under the V berth. Would I have to secure the weight? In addition I would like to extend the Tiller so that I can sit comfortable as far forward as possible against the cabin wall. I have a Tiller extender but it is articulated at the attachment joint and I would like to have an extension that is a removable solid extension of the tiller. Has any one constructed one or know of anything along that line.
All comments welcomed.
George
Merry Helen II
96 M15 #602
I single hand 95% of the time and put in a Catalina 22 tiller. With it I can touch the tiller when well forward. I did put on a forespar tiller extension as well so that i could sit on the coaming. With the longer tiller extension it works pretty well but I rarely use it. This seems to balance the boat well as I can comfortably lean on the cabin wall. When cruisng with a load or sailing with company I use a 5 gallon jug of water as movable ballast. In light air it will be well forward at the bows of the cabin. When the waves get up a bit this depresses the bow too much and you are plowing water so I move it back to the cabin floor where the porta potty goes or just aft of the porta potty. Thanks Doug Kelch "Seas the Day" M15G #310 I do have a heavy battery located in the forward part of the starboard cabin locker as well. I don't think I would put the cinder block in as they should be tied down and then are not moveable. On Sat, Sep 20, 2014 at 10:46 AM, George R. Iemmolo <griemmolo2@gmail.com> wrote:
Wrinkle Boat Mates
I normally sail single-handed but from time to time have someone along. I have found that even alone and sitting as far forward as I can weight distribution seems to tend to be too far aft.
This is leading me to consider adding weight forward. I was thinking a cinder block (40 lbs) in the forward compartment under the V berth. Would I have to secure the weight? In addition I would like to extend the Tiller so that I can sit comfortable as far forward as possible against the cabin wall. I have a Tiller extender but it is articulated at the attachment joint and I would like to have an extension that is a removable solid extension of the tiller. Has any one constructed one or know of anything along that line.
All comments welcomed.
George
Merry Helen II
96 M15 #602
Secure any solid weight to the hull, as it can become a dangerous projectile in rough water or if you're knocked down. I've had good luck securing batteries to a sailboat hull by using flame treated HDPE plastic glued down with g/flex epoxy. If you want to add weight consider a battery for an electric trolling motor as one option - or an anchor, or something else with potential dual uses. A sand bag as used for flooding or in car trunks would be somewhat safer than a cinder block if you don't want the hassle of securing it. Tyler Davis, CA M15 #157 "Defiant" On Sep 20, 2014, at 10:46 AM, George R. Iemmolo wrote:
Wrinkle Boat Mates
I normally sail single-handed but from time to time have someone along. I have found that even alone and sitting as far forward as I can weight distribution seems to tend to be too far aft.
This is leading me to consider adding weight forward. I was thinking a cinder block (40 lbs) in the forward compartment under the V berth. Would I have to secure the weight? In addition I would like to extend the Tiller so that I can sit comfortable as far forward as possible against the cabin wall. I have a Tiller extender but it is articulated at the attachment joint and I would like to have an extension that is a removable solid extension of the tiller. Has any one constructed one or know of anything along that line.
if you are sitting within a foot of the cabin/cockpit bulkhead you are doing well. i'm not a lightweight guy, 220lbs, and on my M15 she sat on her lines well with me sitting in this location. this is before in installed the electrical system (see below). a longer tiller can assist, with the already stated drawback of being a 'cockpit sweeper', if you don't like the angle of a tiller extension. i had a custom 'slightly longer' tiller made by John Owens, of JO Woodworks, for the Glesser's M15. this tiller is also made to be a bit 'higher' at the forward end. if you are interested in this tiller contact John - http://www.jowoodworks.com/ be sure to mention the Glesser's so John knows the tiller you are asking about. if you are considering adding weight be sure, no matter the weight, the ballast CANNOT MOVE. if it moves it will cause all sorts of problems. if you healing and it moves it will send you further over. if you get in a knockdown situation it will make things much worse. on my M15 my 'counterweight' was a Group 24 battery, 'wet cell' weighting about 45lbs, well secured forward under the v-berth between the flotation foam and the steel punchings 'hump' (the later if you have a steel ballasted M15, the lead boats do not have the hump). if you want a few more pounds use a AGM or Gel type as they weight about 5-10 lbs more. if you don't want to install an electrical system consider fiber glassing in 50# bag of lead shot. you don't need more than this. in summary you want to add 'trim ballast' here, not 'righting ballast'. the M15 is correctly ballasted for righting moment when sailing, or if the boat is knocked down. again, you don't want ballast to move, EVER. -- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com On Sat, Sep 20, 2014 at 11:46 AM, George R. Iemmolo <griemmolo2@gmail.com> wrote:
Wrinkle Boat Mates
I normally sail single-handed but from time to time have someone along. I have found that even alone and sitting as far forward as I can weight distribution seems to tend to be too far aft.
This is leading me to consider adding weight forward. I was thinking a cinder block (40 lbs) in the forward compartment under the V berth. Would I have to secure the weight? In addition I would like to extend the Tiller so that I can sit comfortable as far forward as possible against the cabin wall. I have a Tiller extender but it is articulated at the attachment joint and I would like to have an extension that is a removable solid extension of the tiller. Has any one constructed one or know of anything along that line.
All comments welcomed.
George
Merry Helen II
96 M15 #602
Dave Thanks for the feedback on securing ballast. I thought that would be the response as regarding securing it. I just wanted to make sure. I believe I can band anything I use on the wall of the v berth compartment that borders the cabin another winter project. What with the Tiller extension, Hatch board upgrade for holding items, Cockpit/cabin table & securing trim ballast it will be a busy winter George "There is nothing absolutely nothing half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats" -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 11:04 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Weight Distribution/Tiller Extension if you are sitting within a foot of the cabin/cockpit bulkhead you are doing well. i'm not a lightweight guy, 220lbs, and on my M15 she sat on her lines well with me sitting in this location. this is before in installed the electrical system (see below). a longer tiller can assist, with the already stated drawback of being a 'cockpit sweeper', if you don't like the angle of a tiller extension. i had a custom 'slightly longer' tiller made by John Owens, of JO Woodworks, for the Glesser's M15. this tiller is also made to be a bit 'higher' at the forward end. if you are interested in this tiller contact John - http://www.jowoodworks.com/ be sure to mention the Glesser's so John knows the tiller you are asking about. if you are considering adding weight be sure, no matter the weight, the ballast CANNOT MOVE. if it moves it will cause all sorts of problems. if you healing and it moves it will send you further over. if you get in a knockdown situation it will make things much worse. on my M15 my 'counterweight' was a Group 24 battery, 'wet cell' weighting about 45lbs, well secured forward under the v-berth between the flotation foam and the steel punchings 'hump' (the later if you have a steel ballasted M15, the lead boats do not have the hump). if you want a few more pounds use a AGM or Gel type as they weight about 5-10 lbs more. if you don't want to install an electrical system consider fiber glassing in 50# bag of lead shot. you don't need more than this. in summary you want to add 'trim ballast' here, not 'righting ballast'. the M15 is correctly ballasted for righting moment when sailing, or if the boat is knocked down. again, you don't want ballast to move, EVER. -- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com On Sat, Sep 20, 2014 at 11:46 AM, George R. Iemmolo <griemmolo2@gmail.com> wrote:
Wrinkle Boat Mates
I normally sail single-handed but from time to time have someone along. I have found that even alone and sitting as far forward as I can weight distribution seems to tend to be too far aft.
This is leading me to consider adding weight forward. I was thinking a cinder block (40 lbs) in the forward compartment under the V berth. Would I have to secure the weight? In addition I would like to extend the Tiller so that I can sit comfortable as far forward as possible against the cabin wall. I have a Tiller extender but it is articulated at the attachment joint and I would like to have an extension that is a removable solid extension of the tiller. Has any one constructed one or know of anything along that line.
All comments welcomed.
George
Merry Helen II
96 M15 #602
participants (5)
-
Conbert Benneck -
Dave Scobie -
Douglas Kelch -
George R. Iemmolo -
Tyler Backman