Do any of you skippers have your navigation (red and green) lights installed on top of the mast? It seems to be illegal when powering when the steaming light is on . I thought the steaming light was to be above the navigation lights. Also are deck mounted navigation lights installed at 112/2 = 56 (not 90) deg off Hull CL? I am outfitting Pelican to navigate in the steamer lanes off Channel Islands. The container ship needs to see me in time to change course. LOL Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
I ment 120/2 = 60 deg (not 90) Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef> ________________________________ From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> on behalf of Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 4:58:43 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: Navigation lights M15 Do any of you skippers have your navigation (red and green) lights installed on top of the mast? It seems to be illegal when powering when the steaming light is on . I thought the steaming light was to be above the navigation lights. Also are deck mounted navigation lights installed at 112/2 = 56 (not 90) deg off Hull CL? I am outfitting Pelican to navigate in the steamer lanes off Channel Islands. The container ship needs to see me in time to change course. LOL Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
Jim: A tricolor at the masthead is ONLY for sailing For motoring the white light needs to be a meter or more above the red and green Use a bicolor bow light (mounted on the bow pulpits best IMO) and the anchor light (360 white) at the masthead. There are some local variations but the above is the federal standard. If you want more details about setting up a running light system let me know. :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ On Mon, Dec 28, 2020, 4:59 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Do any of you skippers have your navigation (red and green) lights installed on top of the mast? It seems to be illegal when powering when the steaming light is on . I thought the steaming light was to be above the navigation lights. Also are deck mounted navigation lights installed at 112/2 = 56 (not 90) deg off Hull CL? I am outfitting Pelican to navigate in the steamer lanes off Channel Islands. The container ship needs to see me in time to change course. LOL
Just out of curiosity, for motoring only, is it legal to switch off the stern light and use the 360 degree masthead anchor light instead of both a steaming light and stern light combination? Assuming pulpit mounted red/green bow lights. It seems this would be the same as a power boat with an all around white light mounted on a pole on the stern. Henry On Mon, Dec 28, 2020, 9:19 AM Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Jim:
A tricolor at the masthead is ONLY for sailing
For motoring the white light needs to be a meter or more above the red and green
Use a bicolor bow light (mounted on the bow pulpits best IMO) and the anchor light (360 white) at the masthead.
There are some local variations but the above is the federal standard.
If you want more details about setting up a running light system let me know.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Mon, Dec 28, 2020, 4:59 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Do any of you skippers have your navigation (red and green) lights installed on top of the mast? It seems to be illegal when powering when the steaming light is on . I thought the steaming light was to be above the navigation lights. Also are deck mounted navigation lights installed at 112/2 = 56 (not 90) deg off Hull CL? I am outfitting Pelican to navigate in the steamer lanes off Channel Islands. The container ship needs to see me in time to change course. LOL
Just out of curiosity, for motoring only, is it legal to switch off the stern light and use the 360 degree masthead anchor light instead of both a steaming light and stern light combination?
Henry - Yep that is permitted by USCG regulations for craft the size of Mboats (but some local places may be different but those rules don't usually come into play until you have been present for an extended time as you are a transient visitor). :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ On Mon, Dec 28, 2020, 7:57 AM Henry Rodriguez <heinzir@gmail.com> wrote:
Just out of curiosity, for motoring only, is it legal to switch off the stern light and use the 360 degree masthead anchor light instead of both a steaming light and stern light combination? Assuming pulpit mounted red/green bow lights. It seems this would be the same as a power boat with an all around white light mounted on a pole on the stern.
Henry
Thanks again skipper I would like any details u could provide. I might install a tri color light at the mast head only for sailing. I like height for visibility For power I would switch to the navigation lights on the deck, the stern light, and the steaming light about 3/4 up the mast. It wont hurt my feelings if you point out the error in my thinking Capt Jim -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 7:18 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Navigation lights M15 Jim: A tricolor at the masthead is ONLY for sailing For motoring the white light needs to be a meter or more above the red and green Use a bicolor bow light (mounted on the bow pulpits best IMO) and the anchor light (360 white) at the masthead. There are some local variations but the above is the federal standard. If you want more details about setting up a running light system let me know. :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ On Mon, Dec 28, 2020, 4:59 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Do any of you skippers have your navigation (red and green) lights installed on top of the mast? It seems to be illegal when powering when the steaming light is on . I thought the steaming light was to be above the navigation lights. Also are deck mounted navigation lights installed at 112/2 = 56 (not 90) deg off Hull CL? I am outfitting Pelican to navigate in the steamer lanes off Channel Islands. The container ship needs to see me in time to change course. LOL
Hi Jim, For sailboats less than 12 meters like the monty's, you can use a tri-color on the masthead when sailing, and when under motor power using deck level navigation lights and an all round white up on the top of the mast, the allround whitecan also double as an Anchor light. This is the configuration I use with my M17 -> http://www.msogphotosite.com/Scripts/StoryTechnical/storytechnicaldetail.php... cheers, Keith *Keith R. Martin* *Vancouver/Burnaby B.C.* *Serenity M17, #353* *http://www.msogphotosite.com/Scripts/Boats/boatsdetail.php?id=105 <http://www.msogphotosite.com/Scripts/Boats/boatsdetail.php?id=105>* On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 at 17:34, Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Thanks again skipper
I would like any details u could provide. I might install a tri color light at the mast head only for sailing. I like height for visibility
For power I would switch to the navigation lights on the deck, the stern light, and the steaming light about 3/4 up the mast.
It wont hurt my feelings if you point out the error in my thinking
Capt Jim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 7:18 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Navigation lights M15
Jim:
A tricolor at the masthead is ONLY for sailing
For motoring the white light needs to be a meter or more above the red and green
Use a bicolor bow light (mounted on the bow pulpits best IMO) and the anchor light (360 white) at the masthead.
There are some local variations but the above is the federal standard.
If you want more details about setting up a running light system let me know.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Mon, Dec 28, 2020, 4:59 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Do any of you skippers have your navigation (red and green) lights installed on top of the mast? It seems to be illegal when powering when the steaming light is on . I thought the steaming light was to be above the navigation lights. Also are deck mounted navigation lights installed at 112/2 = 56 (not 90) deg off Hull CL? I am outfitting Pelican to navigate in the steamer lanes off Channel Islands. The container ship needs to see me in time to change course. LOL
We are under 23 feet (except for you lucky M23 owners ;-) so we don't legally need any of that on our 15's or 17's. One all-around white light is sufficient; a headlamp/flashlight shone on the sail is sufficient. Also when anchored outside designated anchoring areas, all around white light, adequately visible. Does not have to be on masthead; in practical terms, no need to be higher than on a small power boat at anchor. I mention this because having a hard-wired light on the mast can be a pain, especially for trailer-sailors who rig up and down frequently. Some already have all that in working order, so no additional hassle there. And if the boat is in the water for the whole season, no big deal to connect and disconnect once a year. But if it's not already installed, and one rigs up and down frequently, different story. My M17 came with the stock/OEM bow bi-color and white stern lights. All I need is an all-around white and I'm set. It could be a separate portable battery powered one, or one that plugs into house wiring, like on a stick with a socket in convenient place, or clip to a shroud or pulpit or aft end of boom or run it up the burgee line if you have one... cheers, John On 12/28/20 5:47 PM, Keith R. Martin wrote:
Hi Jim,
For sailboats less than 12 meters like the monty's, you can use a tri-color on the masthead when sailing, and when under motor power using deck level navigation lights and an all round white up on the top of the mast, the allround whitecan also double as an Anchor light.
This is the configuration I use with my M17 -> http://www.msogphotosite.com/Scripts/StoryTechnical/storytechnicaldetail.php...
cheers,
Keith
*Keith R. Martin*
*Vancouver/Burnaby B.C.*
*Serenity M17, #353* *http://www.msogphotosite.com/Scripts/Boats/boatsdetail.php?id=105 <http://www.msogphotosite.com/Scripts/Boats/boatsdetail.php?id=105>*
On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 at 17:34, Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Thanks again skipper
I would like any details u could provide. I might install a tri color light at the mast head only for sailing. I like height for visibility
For power I would switch to the navigation lights on the deck, the stern light, and the steaming light about 3/4 up the mast.
It wont hurt my feelings if you point out the error in my thinking
Capt Jim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 7:18 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Navigation lights M15
Jim:
A tricolor at the masthead is ONLY for sailing
For motoring the white light needs to be a meter or more above the red and green
Use a bicolor bow light (mounted on the bow pulpits best IMO) and the anchor light (360 white) at the masthead.
There are some local variations but the above is the federal standard.
If you want more details about setting up a running light system let me know.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Mon, Dec 28, 2020, 4:59 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Do any of you skippers have your navigation (red and green) lights installed on top of the mast? It seems to be illegal when powering when the steaming light is on . I thought the steaming light was to be above the navigation lights. Also are deck mounted navigation lights installed at 112/2 = 56 (not 90) deg off Hull CL? I am outfitting Pelican to navigate in the steamer lanes off Channel Islands. The container ship needs to see me in time to change course. LOL
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
John I respectfully to what you have written. Yes the M17&15 and Sage 15/17/SageCat under sail can use a flashlight if it "isn't practical" to have the fixed running lights. Though when under power it gets less clear as, "your power-driven vessel is less than 23 feet (7 meters) in length and its maximum speed does not exceed 7 knots, then it may display an all-round white light and, if possible, sidelights, instead of the lights prescribed previously . (International Rules only.)" I read this as being a fixed light, not a flashlight. The states are pretty clear that they want powerboats of all lengths to have lights and have stricter rules than set internationally and by USCG. Same for sailing boats. When I received USCG certificate for building the Sages it was made clear by the inspector that fixed running lights were required for nighttime use of the boats. There are many great portable running lights that can be attached to the boats. I especially like, and sold with the Sages ,especially the S15 & SageCat, the LEDs made by Navilight (a USCG approved design/units). :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ On Mon, Dec 28, 2020, 7:33 PM John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
We are under 23 feet (except for you lucky M23 owners ;-) so we don't legally need any of that on our 15's or 17's.
One all-around white light is sufficient; a headlamp/flashlight shone on the sail is sufficient.
Also when anchored outside designated anchoring areas, all around white light, adequately visible. Does not have to be on masthead; in practical terms, no need to be higher than on a small power boat at anchor.
I mention this because having a hard-wired light on the mast can be a pain, especially for trailer-sailors who rig up and down frequently.
Some already have all that in working order, so no additional hassle there. And if the boat is in the water for the whole season, no big deal to connect and disconnect once a year.
But if it's not already installed, and one rigs up and down frequently, different story.
My M17 came with the stock/OEM bow bi-color and white stern lights. All I need is an all-around white and I'm set.
It could be a separate portable battery powered one, or one that plugs into house wiring, like on a stick with a socket in convenient place, or clip to a shroud or pulpit or aft end of boom or run it up the burgee line if you have one...
cheers, John
Yeah, thanks Dave, I wasn't clear enough re under power - there the power rules apply, as you cite, and an actual all-around white light is minimum required. The flashlight/handheld light is the minimum requirement for any *non-motorized* craft under 7 meters, including sailboats under sail, and oar and paddle and pedal etc. human powered craft. So the minimum for motoring a Monty 15 or 17 at night/reduced visibility would be the all around white, with port/starboard color lights a good thing to have also. The all around white also covers the anchor light requirement. cheers, John On 12/28/20 8:13 PM, Dave Scobie wrote:
John I respectfully to what you have written.
Yes the M17&15 and Sage 15/17/SageCat under sail can use a flashlight if it "isn't practical" to have the fixed running lights.
Though when under power it gets less clear as, "your power-driven vessel is less than 23feet(7 meters) in length andits maximum speed does not exceed 7 knots, then it may display an all-round white light and, if possible, sidelights, instead of the lights prescribed previously . (International Rules only.)"
I read this as being a fixed light, not a flashlight.
The states are pretty clear that they want powerboats of all lengths to have lights and have stricter rules than set internationally and by USCG. Same for sailing boats.
When I received USCG certificate for building the Sages it was made clear by the inspector that fixed running lights were required for nighttime use of the boats.
There are many great portable running lights that can be attached to the boats. I especially like, and sold with the Sages ,especially the S15 & SageCat, the LEDs made by Navilight (a USCG approved design/units).
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com <http://sv-swallow.com> :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com <http://m17-375.com> :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ <http://www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/>
On Mon, Dec 28, 2020, 7:33 PM John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <mailto:montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote:
We are under 23 feet (except for you lucky M23 owners ;-) so we don't legally need any of that on our 15's or 17's.
One all-around white light is sufficient; a headlamp/flashlight shone on the sail is sufficient.
Also when anchored outside designated anchoring areas, all around white light, adequately visible. Does not have to be on masthead; in practical terms, no need to be higher than on a small power boat at anchor.
I mention this because having a hard-wired light on the mast can be a pain, especially for trailer-sailors who rig up and down frequently.
Some already have all that in working order, so no additional hassle there. And if the boat is in the water for the whole season, no big deal to connect and disconnect once a year.
But if it's not already installed, and one rigs up and down frequently, different story.
My M17 came with the stock/OEM bow bi-color and white stern lights. All I need is an all-around white and I'm set.
It could be a separate portable battery powered one, or one that plugs into house wiring, like on a stick with a socket in convenient place, or clip to a shroud or pulpit or aft end of boom or run it up the burgee line if you have one...
cheers, John
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Jim. IMO if having a light at the masthead makes you comfortable the get a fixture that is both an anchor and tricolor. Install a bicolor light at the bow. The above results in much less wire run, fewer panel switches and fewer fixtures ... equalling less money spent. When sailing run tricolor. When motoring use anchor and bicolor bow lights. When anchored use anchor light. This is three panel switches, two fixtures. :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ On Mon, Dec 28, 2020, 5:34 PM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Thanks again skipper
I would like any details u could provide. I might install a tri color light at the mast head only for sailing. I like height for visibility
For power I would switch to the navigation lights on the deck, the stern light, and the steaming light about 3/4 up the mast.
It wont hurt my feelings if you point out the error in my thinking
Capt Jim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 7:18 AM
Jim:
A tricolor at the masthead is ONLY for sailing
For motoring the white light needs to be a meter or more above the red and green
Use a bicolor bow light (mounted on the bow pulpits best IMO) and the anchor light (360 white) at the masthead.
There are some local variations but the above is the federal standard.
If you want more details about setting up a running light system let me know.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Mon, Dec 28, 2020, 4:59 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Do any of you skippers have your navigation (red and green) lights installed on top of the mast? It seems to be illegal when powering when the steaming light is on . I thought the steaming light was to be above the navigation lights. Also are deck mounted navigation lights installed at 112/2 = 56 (not 90) deg off Hull CL? I am outfitting Pelican to navigate in the steamer lanes off Channel Islands. The container ship needs to see me in time to change course. LOL
participants (5)
-
Dave Scobie -
Henry Rodriguez -
Jim Sadler -
John Schinnerer -
Keith R. Martin