trailering with rudder assembly in place M15
Anybody have thoughts on this subject and while we are at it is an IDA rudder worth the investment for a M 15? Thanks Smiley Smiley magoo252@comcast.net
Hi Smiley That wouldn't work. Mainly because the M_15 rudder isn't made by Idasailor. 1. Besides, it Folds AFT, so too trailer the boat with the rudder on would require the rudder blade to stick out aft about 3 feet. Not a good idea. It's too long to leave in the down position. 2. Idasailor doesn't make a mast carrier that attaches to the 15 rudder. They do make a nice set up for the M_17 folding rudder (it folds UP while trailering) That mast carrier assembly bolts fittings on the existing rudder bar (steel) and slides up and out when you launch the boat. 3. On the M_15 remove the rudder and install the rear mast carrier in the Gudgeons; place a cotter pin thru the hole to prevent the mast carrier from jumping out with you hit a Bump in the Road. Fair winds Bob
From: magoo252@comcast.net To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 08:15:40 -0400 Subject: M_Boats: trailering with rudder assembly in place M15
Anybody have thoughts on this subject and while we are at it is an IDA rudder worth the investment for a M 15? Thanks Smiley
Smiley
magoo252@comcast.net
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Since Bob brings the subject up, I am wondering what you out there with IdaSailor rudders and mast carrier options do with the bolted-on mast carrier receptacles when you are in the water. I have been sliding the carrier head/round tube and the long piece of square tubing out, and unbolting just the lower of the two receptacles (larger square tubing) because it is underwater. Is the turbulence over the lower receptacle low enough that I can leave it on all the time as well? I think some you might also leave the long piece of square tubing on while sailing, even though it sticks up a few inches above the rudder head. That would make the whole thing easy--just pull the pin and slide the round tube and carrier head out before launching. Thanks, Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla On May 14, 2011, at 10:38 AM, Bob Eeg wrote:
Hi Smiley
That wouldn't work. Mainly because the M_15 rudder isn't made by Idasailor.
1. Besides, it Folds AFT, so too trailer the boat with the rudder on would require the rudder blade to stick out aft about 3 feet. Not a good idea. It's too long to leave in the down position.
2. Idasailor doesn't make a mast carrier that attaches to the 15 rudder. They do make a nice set up for the M_17 folding rudder (it folds UP while trailering) That mast carrier assembly bolts fittings on the existing rudder bar (steel) and slides up and out when you launch the boat.
3. On the M_15 remove the rudder and install the rear mast carrier in the Gudgeons; place a cotter pin thru the hole to prevent the mast carrier from jumping out with you hit a Bump in the Road.
Fair winds Bob
From: magoo252@comcast.net To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 08:15:40 -0400 Subject: M_Boats: trailering with rudder assembly in place M15
Anybody have thoughts on this subject and while we are at it is an IDA rudder worth the investment for a M 15? Thanks Smiley
Smiley
magoo252@comcast.net
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Tom....I think your bottom Square tube is installed too low. Move it up out of the water. You might have to drill a new hole (use a Drill Press) and/or install a push pin. Bob
From: tjenk@gte.net Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 11:49:03 -0700 To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: trailering with rudder assembly in place M15
Since Bob brings the subject up, I am wondering what you out there with IdaSailor rudders and mast carrier options do with the bolted-on mast carrier receptacles when you are in the water. I have been sliding the carrier head/round tube and the long piece of square tubing out, and unbolting just the lower of the two receptacles (larger square tubing) because it is underwater. Is the turbulence over the lower receptacle low enough that I can leave it on all the time as well? I think some you might also leave the long piece of square tubing on while sailing, even though it sticks up a few inches above the rudder head. That would make the whole thing easy--just pull the pin and slide the round tube and carrier head out before launching. Thanks, Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
On May 14, 2011, at 10:38 AM, Bob Eeg wrote:
Hi Smiley
That wouldn't work. Mainly because the M_15 rudder isn't made by Idasailor.
1. Besides, it Folds AFT, so too trailer the boat with the rudder on would require the rudder blade to stick out aft about 3 feet. Not a good idea. It's too long to leave in the down position.
2. Idasailor doesn't make a mast carrier that attaches to the 15 rudder. They do make a nice set up for the M_17 folding rudder (it folds UP while trailering) That mast carrier assembly bolts fittings on the existing rudder bar (steel) and slides up and out when you launch the boat.
3. On the M_15 remove the rudder and install the rear mast carrier in the Gudgeons; place a cotter pin thru the hole to prevent the mast carrier from jumping out with you hit a Bump in the Road.
Fair winds Bob
From: magoo252@comcast.net To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 08:15:40 -0400 Subject: M_Boats: trailering with rudder assembly in place M15
Anybody have thoughts on this subject and while we are at it is an IDA rudder worth the investment for a M 15? Thanks Smiley
Smiley
magoo252@comcast.net
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When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
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Bob, Interesting problem. I bought my mast crutch after my rudder, and used the picture of the "Latitude" installation on the Ruddercraft website as a guide. The bottom bolt appeared to be mounted so the receptacle is flush with the bottom of the rudder mount. Now the website also shows a picture of Gary's Hydeaway 2, where the crutch is mounted starboard rather than port. The bottom bolt appears to be at the top of the rudder mount (the nearly circular stainless plates) instead of the bottom, raising the whole unit out of the water, and raising the mast higher for stepping. I believe I will have the opportunity to look at both boats in person this summer, so my decision about modification will be a lot easier. All this being said, the rudder/crutch assembly is the "bees' knees" for an M17 Thanks for your input. Tom Jenkins Scintilla On May 14, 2011, at 1:39 PM, Bob Eeg wrote:
Tom....I think your bottom Square tube is installed too low. Move it up out of the water.
You might have to drill a new hole (use a Drill Press) and/or install a push pin.
Bob
From: tjenk@gte.net Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 11:49:03 -0700 To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: trailering with rudder assembly in place M15
Since Bob brings the subject up, I am wondering what you out there with IdaSailor rudders and mast carrier options do with the bolted-on mast carrier receptacles when you are in the water. I have been sliding the carrier head/round tube and the long piece of square tubing out, and unbolting just the lower of the two receptacles (larger square tubing) because it is underwater. Is the turbulence over the lower receptacle low enough that I can leave it on all the time as well? I think some you might also leave the long piece of square tubing on while sailing, even though it sticks up a few inches above the rudder head. That would make the whole thing easy--just pull the pin and slide the round tube and carrier head out before launching. Thanks, Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
On May 14, 2011, at 10:38 AM, Bob Eeg wrote:
Hi Smiley
That wouldn't work. Mainly because the M_15 rudder isn't made by Idasailor.
1. Besides, it Folds AFT, so too trailer the boat with the rudder on would require the rudder blade to stick out aft about 3 feet. Not a good idea. It's too long to leave in the down position.
2. Idasailor doesn't make a mast carrier that attaches to the 15 rudder. They do make a nice set up for the M_17 folding rudder (it folds UP while trailering) That mast carrier assembly bolts fittings on the existing rudder bar (steel) and slides up and out when you launch the boat.
3. On the M_15 remove the rudder and install the rear mast carrier in the Gudgeons; place a cotter pin thru the hole to prevent the mast carrier from jumping out with you hit a Bump in the Road.
Fair winds Bob
From: magoo252@comcast.net To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 08:15:40 -0400 Subject: M_Boats: trailering with rudder assembly in place M15
Anybody have thoughts on this subject and while we are at it is an IDA rudder worth the investment for a M 15? Thanks Smiley
Smiley
magoo252@comcast.net
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When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
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smiley: the M15's rudder is _really_ good. discussion of jerry's design expectations for rudders can be reviewed here - http://www.sagemarine.us/SCA_articles/smalltalk_55.html (thanks to SMALL CRAFT ADVISOR for allowing Sage Marine to host jerry's article) :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.net (or .org, or .com, or .us) --- On Sat, 5/14/11, Karen and Smiley <magoo252@comcast.net> wrote:
Anybody have thoughts on this subject and while we are at it is an IDA rudder worth the investment for a M 15? Thanks Smiley
Interesting. I have an Ida sailor blade installed on my M15 stock tiller assembly, and have the old wood blade in my garage. They were like that when I purchased the boat. The previous owner far preferred the Ida sailor blade, as it is deeper and he felt he had better control. My complaint with the blade is it weighs a ton, and since I can't put the boat in the water with the rudder installed on the trailer first, since it droops down and might get wrecked, I have to install it on the water. Wrestling the thing into the gudgeons is hard! So, do you think the performance of the stock blade is pretty good? And if so, should I reinstall it and try that? Daniel On May 14, 2011, at 12:52 PM, W David Scobie wrote:
smiley:
the M15's rudder is _really_ good. discussion of jerry's design expectations for rudders can be reviewed here -
http://www.sagemarine.us/SCA_articles/smalltalk_55.html
(thanks to SMALL CRAFT ADVISOR for allowing Sage Marine to host jerry's article)
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.net (or .org, or .com, or .us)
--- On Sat, 5/14/11, Karen and Smiley <magoo252@comcast.net> wrote:
Anybody have thoughts on this subject and while we are at it is an IDA rudder worth the investment for a M 15? Thanks Smiley
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
the ruddercraft rudder on the M15 is heavy when compared to jerry's wood design. the M15 is less forgiving of having weight aft than the M17. you want the M15 to be very close to level on the waterline (bow to stern) when off the wind, or just a bit forward on the bow to get the best performance when sailing to weather. i never felt the M15 had any rudder problems. some feel she can have to much weather helm ... but to me she is just giving you important feedback you are overpowering the boat and need to reef the main. :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.net (or .org, or .com, or .us) --- On Sat, 5/14/11, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
Interesting. I have an Ida sailor blade installed on my M15 stock tiller assembly, and have the old wood blade in my garage. They were like that when I purchased the boat. The previous owner far preferred the Ida sailor blade, as it is deeper and he felt he had better control. My complaint with the blade is it weighs a ton, and since I can't put the boat in the water with the rudder installed on the trailer first, since it droops down and might get wrecked, I have to install it on the water. Wrestling the thing into the gudgeons is hard! So, do you think the performance of the stock blade is pretty good? And if so, should I reinstall it and try that?
Daniel On May 14, 2011, at 12:52 PM, W David Scobie wrote:
smiley:
the M15's rudder is _really_ good. discussion of jerry's design expectations for rudders can be reviewed here
http://www.sagemarine.us/SCA_articles/smalltalk_55.html
(thanks to SMALL CRAFT ADVISOR for allowing Sage
Marine to host jerry's article)
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: former M15 owner -
www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred
:: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.net (or .org, or .com, or .us)
--- On Sat, 5/14/11, Karen and Smiley <magoo252@comcast.net> wrote:
Anybody have thoughts on this subject and while we are at it is an IDA rudder worth the investment for a M 15?
Thanks Smiley
In the M15 review years ago in Small Craft Advisor somebody complained that the M15 rudder would stall. But that has not been your impression? I will look over my tiller and rudder assembly, and if it looks easy, I may swap back to the wood blade for a while to try it. The shape looks just like what Jerry describes in his article. One would imagine he designed this rudder to work well with the boat. As I said, my main issue is the weight of the much larger plastic blade. But if the wood blade works well, I could even put the rudder on before backing the boat into the water. That would actually help a lot. Daniel On May 14, 2011, at 1:30 PM, W David Scobie wrote:
the ruddercraft rudder on the M15 is heavy when compared to jerry's wood design. the M15 is less forgiving of having weight aft than the M17. you want the M15 to be very close to level on the waterline (bow to stern) when off the wind, or just a bit forward on the bow to get the best performance when sailing to weather.
i never felt the M15 had any rudder problems. some feel she can have to much weather helm ... but to me she is just giving you important feedback you are overpowering the boat and need to reef the main.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.net (or .org, or .com, or .us)
--- On Sat, 5/14/11, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
Interesting. I have an Ida sailor blade installed on my M15 stock tiller assembly, and have the old wood blade in my garage. They were like that when I purchased the boat. The previous owner far preferred the Ida sailor blade, as it is deeper and he felt he had better control. My complaint with the blade is it weighs a ton, and since I can't put the boat in the water with the rudder installed on the trailer first, since it droops down and might get wrecked, I have to install it on the water. Wrestling the thing into the gudgeons is hard! So, do you think the performance of the stock blade is pretty good? And if so, should I reinstall it and try that?
Daniel On May 14, 2011, at 12:52 PM, W David Scobie wrote:
smiley:
the M15's rudder is _really_ good. discussion of jerry's design expectations for rudders can be reviewed here
http://www.sagemarine.us/SCA_articles/smalltalk_55.html
(thanks to SMALL CRAFT ADVISOR for allowing Sage
Marine to host jerry's article)
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: former M15 owner -
www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred
:: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.net (or .org, or .com, or .us)
--- On Sat, 5/14/11, Karen and Smiley <magoo252@comcast.net> wrote:
Anybody have thoughts on this subject and while we are at it is an IDA rudder worth the investment for a M 15?
Thanks Smiley
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
IMO to stall the M15's rudder you have already significantly overpowered the boat. i've never stalled the rudder on any of jerry's boats (M15, M17, S17). :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.net (or .org, or .com, or .us) --- On Sat, 5/14/11, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
In the M15 review years ago in Small Craft Advisor somebody complained that the M15 rudder would stall. But that has not been your impression? I will look over my tiller and rudder assembly, and if it looks easy, I may swap back to the wood blade for a while to try it. The shape looks just like what Jerry describes in his article. One would imagine he designed this rudder to work well with the boat. As I said, my main issue is the weight of the much larger plastic blade. But if the wood blade works well, I could even put the rudder on before backing the boat into the water. That would actually help a lot.
Daniel On May 14, 2011, at 1:30 PM, W David Scobie wrote:
the ruddercraft rudder on the M15 is heavy when compared to jerry's wood design. the M15 is less forgiving of having weight aft than the M17. you want the M15 to be very close to level on the waterline (bow to stern) when off the wind, or just a bit forward on the bow to get the best performance when sailing to weather.
i never felt the M15 had any rudder problems. some feel she can have to much weather helm ... but to me she is just giving you important feedback you are overpowering the boat and need to reef the main.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.net (or .org, or .com, or .us)
--- On Sat, 5/14/11, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
Interesting. I have an Ida sailor blade installed on my M15 stock tiller assembly,
and have
the old wood blade in my garage. They were like that when I purchased the boat. The previous owner far preferred the Ida sailor blade, as it is deeper and he felt he had better control. My complaint with the blade is it weighs a ton, and since I can't put the boat in the water with the rudder installed on the trailer first, since it droops down and might get wrecked, I have to install it on the water. Wrestling the thing into the gudgeons is hard! So, do you think the performance of the stock blade is pretty good? And if so, should I reinstall it and try that?
Daniel On May 14, 2011, at 12:52 PM, W David Scobie wrote:
smiley:
the M15's rudder is _really_ good. discussion of jerry's design expectations for rudders can be reviewed here
http://www.sagemarine.us/SCA_articles/smalltalk_55.html
(thanks to SMALL CRAFT ADVISOR for allowing
Sage Marine to host jerry's article)
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA -
www.m17-375.webs.com
:: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.net (or .org, or .com, or .us)
--- On Sat, 5/14/11, Karen and Smiley <magoo252@comcast.net> wrote:
Anybody have thoughts on this subject and while we are at it is an IDA rudder worth the investment for a M 15?
Thanks Smiley
OK, I'm gonna swap it back out to the old one. When I learned how to sail in college at UCSC 30 years ago we had some really wonderful racing keel boats known as Shields. I think there is still an active racing class. In any event, these things weighed about 6000 lbs, and were 30 feet, but made for 2 sailors. Bendy masts, full spinnakers, the whole bit. They had keel rudders that did almost nothing, so the boat would really go only where the sails were trimmed. Made one a better sailor, for sure! So in one of the intermediate instructional classes one of the skippers was sailing in the harbor back to the dock under pretty good wind. She was headed straight for the dock, and was pushing the tiller away to steer the boat to avoid the dock, but because of the way the sails were trimmed the boat just continued on its merry way. The rudder did nothing at all. So, she panicked, and jumped into the water off the transom leaving her crew mate in the boat to crash into the dock. The instructors were beside themselves. But, they were experts at fiberglass repair... Daniel On May 14, 2011, at 1:38 PM, W David Scobie wrote:
IMO to stall the M15's rudder you have already significantly overpowered the boat.
i've never stalled the rudder on any of jerry's boats (M15, M17, S17).
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.net (or .org, or .com, or .us)
--- On Sat, 5/14/11, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
In the M15 review years ago in Small Craft Advisor somebody complained that the M15 rudder would stall. But that has not been your impression? I will look over my tiller and rudder assembly, and if it looks easy, I may swap back to the wood blade for a while to try it. The shape looks just like what Jerry describes in his article. One would imagine he designed this rudder to work well with the boat. As I said, my main issue is the weight of the much larger plastic blade. But if the wood blade works well, I could even put the rudder on before backing the boat into the water. That would actually help a lot.
Daniel On May 14, 2011, at 1:30 PM, W David Scobie wrote:
the ruddercraft rudder on the M15 is heavy when compared to jerry's wood design. the M15 is less forgiving of having weight aft than the M17. you want the M15 to be very close to level on the waterline (bow to stern) when off the wind, or just a bit forward on the bow to get the best performance when sailing to weather.
i never felt the M15 had any rudder problems. some feel she can have to much weather helm ... but to me she is just giving you important feedback you are overpowering the boat and need to reef the main.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.net (or .org, or .com, or .us)
--- On Sat, 5/14/11, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
Interesting. I have an Ida sailor blade installed on my M15 stock tiller assembly,
and have
the old wood blade in my garage. They were like that when I purchased the boat. The previous owner far preferred the Ida sailor blade, as it is deeper and he felt he had better control. My complaint with the blade is it weighs a ton, and since I can't put the boat in the water with the rudder installed on the trailer first, since it droops down and might get wrecked, I have to install it on the water. Wrestling the thing into the gudgeons is hard! So, do you think the performance of the stock blade is pretty good? And if so, should I reinstall it and try that?
Daniel On May 14, 2011, at 12:52 PM, W David Scobie wrote:
smiley:
the M15's rudder is _really_ good. discussion of jerry's design expectations for rudders can be reviewed here
http://www.sagemarine.us/SCA_articles/smalltalk_55.html
(thanks to SMALL CRAFT ADVISOR for allowing
Sage Marine to host jerry's article)
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA -
www.m17-375.webs.com
:: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.net (or .org, or .com, or .us)
--- On Sat, 5/14/11, Karen and Smiley <magoo252@comcast.net> wrote:
Anybody have thoughts on this subject and while we are at it is an IDA rudder worth the investment for a M 15?
Thanks Smiley
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
A possibiity is that the boat had too much mast rake, which would have a tendency to overpower the rudder. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "W David Scobie" <wdscobie@yahoo.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 1:38 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 rudder performance IMO to stall the M15's rudder you have already significantly overpowered the boat. i've never stalled the rudder on any of jerry's boats (M15, M17, S17). :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.net (or .org, or .com, or .us) --- On Sat, 5/14/11, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
In the M15 review years ago in Small Craft Advisor somebody complained that the M15 rudder would stall. But that has not been your impression? I will look over my tiller and rudder assembly, and if it looks easy, I may swap back to the wood blade for a while to try it. The shape looks just like what Jerry describes in his article. One would imagine he designed this rudder to work well with the boat. As I said, my main issue is the weight of the much larger plastic blade. But if the wood blade works well, I could even put the rudder on before backing the boat into the water. That would actually help a lot.
Daniel On May 14, 2011, at 1:30 PM, W David Scobie wrote:
the ruddercraft rudder on the M15 is heavy when compared to jerry's wood design. the M15 is less forgiving of having weight aft than the M17. you want the M15 to be very close to level on the waterline (bow to stern) when off the wind, or just a bit forward on the bow to get the best performance when sailing to weather.
i never felt the M15 had any rudder problems. some feel she can have to much weather helm ... but to me she is just giving you important feedback you are overpowering the boat and need to reef the main.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.net (or .org, or .com, or .us)
--- On Sat, 5/14/11, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
Interesting. I have an Ida sailor blade installed on my M15 stock tiller assembly,
and have
the old wood blade in my garage. They were like that when I purchased the boat. The previous owner far preferred the Ida sailor blade, as it is deeper and he felt he had better control. My complaint with the blade is it weighs a ton, and since I can't put the boat in the water with the rudder installed on the trailer first, since it droops down and might get wrecked, I have to install it on the water. Wrestling the thing into the gudgeons is hard! So, do you think the performance of the stock blade is pretty good? And if so, should I reinstall it and try that?
Daniel On May 14, 2011, at 12:52 PM, W David Scobie wrote:
smiley:
the M15's rudder is _really_ good. discussion of jerry's design expectations for rudders can be reviewed here
http://www.sagemarine.us/SCA_articles/smalltalk_55.html
(thanks to SMALL CRAFT ADVISOR for allowing
Sage Marine to host jerry's article)
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA -
www.m17-375.webs.com
:: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.net (or .org, or .com, or .us)
--- On Sat, 5/14/11, Karen and Smiley <magoo252@comcast.net> wrote:
Anybody have thoughts on this subject and while we are at it is an IDA rudder worth the investment for a M 15?
Thanks Smiley
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Hello Jerry: I bought a M15 #167 from Kit Cooney (I think that was his name) 29 years ago in 1982. I believe he either worked for you or did some work for you and he ended up with a M15 kit that he built. I may have the story wrong. I remember meeting you several times at the Long Beach Boat shows in the 80's and also at your company in Costa Mesa. The boat itself has held up great through the years. Unfortunately, I have had it stored on the side of my house for some time. I am now planning to get it ready for sailing again and want it refitted with new standing rigging. This M15 has always been mast head rigged (with spreaders) like a M17. I know years ago you told me that I should consider re-rigging the boat to the original fractional rig as Kit Cooney did not install a compression post inside the cabin to deal with the downward pressure from the mast. My questions are: Do you know why Kit Cooney would have rigged the boat this way? Also, have you ever installed or heard of a compression post being installed in a M15? I rather like the mast head rig and the boat has always sailed very well especially after I learned about putting some rake into the mast. Would love to hear your thoughts and anyone elses concerning the rigging. Mike Hall M15 #167 Tustin, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: "jerry" <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 10:08 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 rudder performance
A possibiity is that the boat had too much mast rake, which would have a tendency to overpower the rudder.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "W David Scobie" <wdscobie@yahoo.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 1:38 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 rudder performance
IMO to stall the M15's rudder you have already significantly overpowered the boat.
i've never stalled the rudder on any of jerry's boats (M15, M17, S17).
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.net (or .org, or .com, or .us)
--- On Sat, 5/14/11, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
In the M15 review years ago in Small Craft Advisor somebody complained that the M15 rudder would stall. But that has not been your impression? I will look over my tiller and rudder assembly, and if it looks easy, I may swap back to the wood blade for a while to try it. The shape looks just like what Jerry describes in his article. One would imagine he designed this rudder to work well with the boat. As I said, my main issue is the weight of the much larger plastic blade. But if the wood blade works well, I could even put the rudder on before backing the boat into the water. That would actually help a lot.
Daniel On May 14, 2011, at 1:30 PM, W David Scobie wrote:
the ruddercraft rudder on the M15 is heavy when compared to jerry's wood design. the M15 is less forgiving of having weight aft than the M17. you want the M15 to be very close to level on the waterline (bow to stern) when off the wind, or just a bit forward on the bow to get the best performance when sailing to weather.
i never felt the M15 had any rudder problems. some feel she can have to much weather helm ... but to me she is just giving you important feedback you are overpowering the boat and need to reef the main.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.net (or .org, or .com, or .us)
--- On Sat, 5/14/11, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
Interesting. I have an Ida sailor blade installed on my M15 stock tiller assembly,
and have
the old wood blade in my garage. They were like that when I purchased the boat. The previous owner far preferred the Ida sailor blade, as it is deeper and he felt he had better control. My complaint with the blade is it weighs a ton, and since I can't put the boat in the water with the rudder installed on the trailer first, since it droops down and might get wrecked, I have to install it on the water. Wrestling the thing into the gudgeons is hard! So, do you think the performance of the stock blade is pretty good? And if so, should I reinstall it and try that?
Daniel On May 14, 2011, at 12:52 PM, W David Scobie wrote:
smiley:
the M15's rudder is _really_ good. discussion of jerry's design expectations for rudders can be reviewed here
http://www.sagemarine.us/SCA_articles/smalltalk_55.html
(thanks to SMALL CRAFT ADVISOR for allowing
Sage Marine to host jerry's article)
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA -
www.m17-375.webs.com
:: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.net (or .org, or .com, or .us)
--- On Sat, 5/14/11, Karen and Smiley <magoo252@comcast.net> wrote:
Anybody have thoughts on this subject and while we are at it is an IDA rudder worth the investment for a M 15?
Thanks Smiley
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I'm currently replacing the sheaves on my M-17. They were used with rope-to-wire halyards and are kind of chewed up. I'm thinking of going with all rope halyards (Sta Set). Jerry recommended 1/4" for the main and 5/16" for the jib. The sheaves I'm using to replace the old are duplicates, 1.5"x3/8"x1/4". Has anybody used 1/4" or 5/16" line all around? I like the feel of the 5/16" but the 1/4" seems to fit the sheave better. Thoughts? Ian M-17 Seaweeble
Hi Ian, I went to rope halyards on my former M-17. I was able to get some Aluminum ( I think) sheaves from Bob Eeg and then chuck them up on a drill press and with a file open them up just a bit to work better with the line. I had done a pretty extensive search for other sheaves but could not find an exact replacement. My old ones were plastic and broken. I cannot remember exactly the line, 1/4" sounds about right. Robbin On 5/17/2011 12:25 AM, Ian Black wrote:
I'm currently replacing the sheaves on my M-17. They were used with rope-to-wire halyards and are kind of chewed up. I'm thinking of going with all rope halyards (Sta Set). Jerry recommended 1/4" for the main and 5/16" for the jib. The sheaves I'm using to replace the old are duplicates, 1.5"x3/8"x1/4". Has anybody used 1/4" or 5/16" line all around? I like the feel of the 5/16" but the 1/4" seems to fit the sheave better. Thoughts? Ian M-17 Seaweeble
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Ian, Re: the sheaves for rope halyards. I converted to all rope last year. My original aluminum sheaves were somewhat rough, and the bore was oversized on the pin. I ordered 4 delrin with bronze bushings from www.zephyrwerks.com/<http://zephyrwerks.com/>. Very good service, easy to deal with, great quality product. I sized them for 8mm (5/16") line and went with 1/4". We had a discussion on the list last year re weight aloft. Specs on what I ordered were 1.25" x .375" x .25" for 8mm line. I used my existing pins. Fit is very good. Smoother rolling and less play than the original aluminum sheaves that the wire ran in. Regards, Bill Makin' Time M17 #622 On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 12:25 AM, Ian Black <seaweeble@hotmail.com> wrote:
I'm currently replacing the sheaves on my M-17. They were used with rope-to-wire halyards and are kind of chewed up. I'm thinking of going with all rope halyards (Sta Set). Jerry recommended 1/4" for the main and 5/16" for the jib. The sheaves I'm using to replace the old are duplicates, 1.5"x3/8"x1/4". Has anybody used 1/4" or 5/16" line all around? I like the feel of the 5/16" but the 1/4" seems to fit the sheave better. Thoughts? Ian M-17 Seaweeble
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Hi Bill, nice find on this supplier! I now have new sheaves on my to do list. Thanks Robbin On 5/17/2011 7:20 AM, Bill Wickett wrote:
Ian,
Re: the sheaves for rope halyards.
I converted to all rope last year. My original aluminum sheaves were somewhat rough, and the bore was oversized on the pin.
I ordered 4 delrin with bronze bushings from www.zephyrwerks.com/<http://zephyrwerks.com/>. Very good service, easy to deal with, great quality product.
I sized them for 8mm (5/16") line and went with 1/4". We had a discussion on the list last year re weight aloft.
Specs on what I ordered were 1.25" x .375" x .25" for 8mm line. I used my existing pins. Fit is very good. Smoother rolling and less play than the original aluminum sheaves that the wire ran in.
Regards,
Bill
Makin' Time M17 #622
On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 12:25 AM, Ian Black<seaweeble@hotmail.com> wrote:
I'm currently replacing the sheaves on my M-17. They were used with rope-to-wire halyards and are kind of chewed up. I'm thinking of going with all rope halyards (Sta Set). Jerry recommended 1/4" for the main and 5/16" for the jib. The sheaves I'm using to replace the old are duplicates, 1.5"x3/8"x1/4". Has anybody used 1/4" or 5/16" line all around? I like the feel of the 5/16" but the 1/4" seems to fit the sheave better. Thoughts? Ian M-17 Seaweeble
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participants (10)
-
Beowulf -
Bill Wickett -
Bob Eeg -
Daniel Rich -
Ian Black -
jerry -
Karen and Smiley -
robbin roddewig -
Tom Jenkins -
W David Scobie