All of this talk about safety has got me to thinking about using a harness and tether on my M15, since I sail alone a lot of the time. It appears that the tethers I've looked at are around six feet long. I'm thinking that the attachment point should be on the stern,so that in the event that one did go overboard one could end up behind the boat and use the stern ladder to get back in. My initial thought was on the teak strip that the cb pennant comes through...but, with only six feet of tether, one would end up being dragged along the side of the boat, and trying to board over the side , most likely in rough weather. I haven't tried boarding over the side by myself, as I doubt I'd make it!! The first thing I did when I got my boat was to install a transom mounted ladder - it does work! What are people's thoughts? Jon in Walla Walla _________________________________________________________________ Take off on a romantic weekend or a family adventure to these great U.S. locations. http://special.msn.com/local/hotdestinations.armx
Jon, When I ordered my M-17, I asked Bob Eeg to install a bronze pad eye on the foredeck and another on the aft bulkhead of the cockpit. I connect jack lines to the forward eye with a snap hook . I then route each line around the outside of the shrouds ( port and starboard), and tie each line to the aft eye using a girth hitch knot. A tether can then be attached to either line. If two are aboard, each has his own jack line, so neither has to be disconnected at any time.The reason for routing the lines outboard the shrouds is, as you mentioned, so that if you fall off the foredeck you will be swept to the stern where a boarding ladder is located. I think the use of jacklines may give you freedom of movement not available with just a tether connected at one spot. Clarence Andrews M-17 Carpe Ventum #604 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Martin" <jonmartin666@msn.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 10:02 PM Subject: M_Boats: M15 harness and tether questions
All of this talk about safety has got me to thinking about using a harness and tether on my M15, since I sail alone a lot of the time. It appears that the tethers I've looked at are around six feet long. I'm thinking that the attachment point should be on the stern,so that in the event that one did go overboard one could end up behind the boat and use the stern ladder to get back in. My initial thought was on the teak strip that the cb pennant comes through...but, with only six feet of tether, one would end up being dragged along the side of the boat, and trying to board over the side , most likely in rough weather. I haven't tried boarding over the side by myself, as I doubt I'd make it!! The first thing I did when I got my boat was to install a transom mounted ladder - it does work! What are people's thoughts? Jon in Walla Walla
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Thinking of Safety harnesses and jack lines, I remember reading of a women in her late 70's (78 as I recall) who sailed her M-15 off the Main coast. She said she trailed a length of 1/2 floating rope behind her M-15. The length was such that if she fell of the boat at hull speed she calculated she would have time enough to swim back behind the boat and catch the line. From there she thought she could hang on and pull herself back to her boat. In a knock-down situation, I am wondering if it is safer not to be tethered to you boat? To be able to jump free, swim, move freely, seems like a good idea. My brother had a knife tied to his safety harness, with the idea he could cut himself free if needed. A couple of years back I recall an article in Sail or Cruising World about a man who had his inexperienced wife as crew for a race. He pointed a direction and told her to keep the boat headed that way while he went forward to change a headsail. He was wearing a harness and went over the side near the bow pulpit. He was unable to get himself free and drown from the bow wake. His petrified wife held the course until the boat beached itself. I know this sounds like a fish story but maybe somebody else recall reading it as well. Randy G. M-15 #407 From: n9ca Sent: Sat 2/21/2004 10:06 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 harness and tether questions Jon, When I ordered my M-17, I asked Bob Eeg to install a bronze pad eye on the foredeck and another on the aft bulkhead of the cockpit. I connect jack lines to the forward eye with a snap hook . I then route each line around the outside of the shrouds ( port and starboard), and tie each line to the aft eye using a girth hitch knot. A tether can then be attached to either line. If two are aboard, each has his own jack line, so neither has to be disconnected at any time.The reason for routing the lines outboard the shrouds is, as you mentioned, so that if you fall off the foredeck you will be swept to the stern where a boarding ladder is located. I think the use of jacklines may give you freedom of movement not available with just a tether connected at one spot. Clarence Andrews M-17 Carpe Ventum #604 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Martin" <jonmartin666@msn.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 10:02 PM Subject: M_Boats: M15 harness and tether questions
All of this talk about safety has got me to thinking about using a harness and tether on my M15, since I sail alone a lot of the time. It appears that the tethers I've looked at are around six feet long. I'm thinking that the attachment point should be on the stern,so that in the event that one did go overboard one could end up behind the boat and use the stern ladder to get back in. My initial thought was on the teak strip that the cb pennant comes through...but, with only six feet of tether, one would end up being dragged along the side of the boat, and trying to board over the side , most likely in rough weather. I haven't tried boarding over the side by myself, as I doubt I'd make it!! The first thing I did when I got my boat was to install a transom mounted ladder - it does work! What are people's thoughts? Jon in Walla Walla
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Randy, A couple of comments: Several years ago I spoke with a steel boat manufacturer in Panama City, FL, and we discussed the practice of trailing a line behind the boat. He told me that he was sailing alone on the Chesapeake Bay, and wondered just how hard it would be to get back on the boat if he fell off, and was able to get to a line trailing the boat. With that in mind, he jumped off the transon wearing a harness attached to the boat by a long line. The boat was under sail and making about seven knots. He said that three hours later the boat ran aground, and only then was he able to get back onto the boat. I can't vouch for the veracity of his story, and he may well be someone who wouldn't ruin a good story for the lack of a few facts. A few knots placed at intervals would no doubt have helped. This does suggest, though, that one should consider that the combination of jackline and tether be such that the boarding latter be within reach should you fall overboard. Regarding the man wearing a harness that drowned after falling off the foredeck, it seems that that incident is a very good argument for routing the jacklines outside the shrouds, allowing him to be swept to the transom. That may have saved him, unless, of course, he fell off through the bow pulpit. Clarence Andrews M-17, Carpe Ventum #604 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randy Graves" <RandyG@cite.nic.edu> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 3:52 PM Subject: RE: M_Boats: M15 harness and tether questions Thinking of Safety harnesses and jack lines, I remember reading of a women in her late 70's (78 as I recall) who sailed her M-15 off the Main coast. She said she trailed a length of 1/2 floating rope behind her M-15. The length was such that if she fell of the boat at hull speed she calculated she would have time enough to swim back behind the boat and catch the line.
From there she thought she could hang on and pull herself back to her boat.
In a knock-down situation, I am wondering if it is safer not to be tethered to you boat? To be able to jump free, swim, move freely, seems like a good idea. My brother had a knife tied to his safety harness, with the idea he could cut himself free if needed. A couple of years back I recall an article in Sail or Cruising World about a man who had his inexperienced wife as crew for a race. He pointed a direction and told her to keep the boat headed that way while he went forward to change a headsail. He was wearing a harness and went over the side near the bow pulpit. He was unable to get himself free and drown from the bow wake. His petrified wife held the course until the boat beached itself. I know this sounds like a fish story but maybe somebody else recall reading it as well. Randy G. M-15 #407 From: n9ca Sent: Sat 2/21/2004 10:06 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 harness and tether questions Jon, When I ordered my M-17, I asked Bob Eeg to install a bronze pad eye on the foredeck and another on the aft bulkhead of the cockpit. I connect jack lines to the forward eye with a snap hook . I then route each line around the outside of the shrouds ( port and starboard), and tie each line to the aft eye using a girth hitch knot. A tether can then be attached to either line. If two are aboard, each has his own jack line, so neither has to be disconnected at any time.The reason for routing the lines outboard the shrouds is, as you mentioned, so that if you fall off the foredeck you will be swept to the stern where a boarding ladder is located. I think the use of jacklines may give you freedom of movement not available with just a tether connected at one spot. Clarence Andrews M-17 Carpe Ventum #604 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Martin" <jonmartin666@msn.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 10:02 PM Subject: M_Boats: M15 harness and tether questions
All of this talk about safety has got me to thinking about using a harness and tether on my M15, since I sail alone a lot of the time. It appears that the tethers I've looked at are around six feet long. I'm thinking that the attachment point should be on the stern,so that in the event that one did go overboard one could end up behind the boat and use the stern ladder to get back in. My initial thought was on the teak strip that the cb pennant comes through...but, with only six feet of tether, one would end up being dragged along the side of the boat, and trying to board over the side , most likely in rough weather. I haven't tried boarding over the side by myself, as I doubt I'd make it!! The first thing I did when I got my boat was to install a transom mounted ladder - it does work! What are people's thoughts? Jon in Walla Walla
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I can understand the effort involved in trying to pull yourself through the water to a large boat running at 7 kts. But I'll bet an M15 towing a 150# person would be lucky to make 3 kts. And I'll bet that kind of drag from one stern cleat would cause the boat to round up and stop. I have another safety system. I seldom lock down the helm, and even when locked, the M15 is very sensitive to conditions and it wouldn't wander too far without rounding up. IMHO, a wind vane would be required to keep an M15 running straight until it reached shore. Being a good swimmer, I don't really worry about going in the drink, except in cold water. That said, I do have an SOS inflatable vest, harness and pad eye bolted through the vertical bridge deck structure, next to the c-board pennant The 6 ft tether will let me reach anything behind the mast. If I need to go forward, I can reattach it to a line around the base of the mast. Remember that the clip attaching vest to tether should be selected to prevent accidental release, but allow manual release when necessary; such as when being dragged underwater or alongside the hull. Bill Riker M15 #184 Storm Petrel
Hi, guys.....I missed all the shirt excitement by being gone for a few days. I'll buy a few too assuming the design is halfways nicely done. Someone on the BCC list volunteered to make shirts for the group and I bought some from them. In their case it was a small but very distinctive profile of the BCC embroidered on the left breast with 3 colors of thread (brown, black, and white). ******** I bought some seat-belt type webbing a while back but haven't tried it out yet. This summer I'll try to make it a point to do a series of man-overboard tests with the assistance of my sister, brother-in-law and nephews. It would be nice to NOT make headlines with: Ohio Man Drowns in Erie during man-overboard drills Let's see. I could try: **various exit points (windward, leeward, foredeck, etc) **life-jacket only **life-jacket only with trailing line **life-jacket with tether **Mustang suit with tether Probably 15 kts should be enough wind to give an indication of whether getting aboard is feasible. I could have my sister and a nephew with me aboard Busca and another nephew and brother-in-law aboard their S2 motoring. A mob flag would probably be good to help keep sight of me...(I am reminded of the hat I lost on the Potomac last year). Tod
BCC list? ----- Original Message ----- From: <htmills@bright.net> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 8:35 PM Subject: shirts and tethers Hi, guys.....I missed all the shirt excitement by being gone for a few days. I'll buy a few too assuming the design is halfways nicely done. Someone on the BCC list volunteered to make shirts for the group and I bought some from them. In their case it was a small but very distinctive profile of the BCC embroidered on the left breast with 3 colors of thread (brown, black, and white). ******** I bought some seat-belt type webbing a while back but haven't tried it out yet. This summer I'll try to make it a point to do a series of man-overboard tests with the assistance of my sister, brother-in-law and nephews. It would be nice to NOT make headlines with: Ohio Man Drowns in Erie during man-overboard drills Let's see. I could try: **various exit points (windward, leeward, foredeck, etc) **life-jacket only **life-jacket only with trailing line **life-jacket with tether **Mustang suit with tether Probably 15 kts should be enough wind to give an indication of whether getting aboard is feasible. I could have my sister and a nephew with me aboard Busca and another nephew and brother-in-law aboard their S2 motoring. A mob flag would probably be good to help keep sight of me...(I am reminded of the hat I lost on the Potomac last year). Tod _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Bristol Channel Cutter (Hess design)......I used to subscribe to that list too. Craig, I never received any photos....if you e-mail them directly to me I'll be glad to post them on my web page until Doug gets a breather... Tod -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces+htmills=bright.net@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+htmills=bright.net@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Honshells Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 11:33 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: M_Boats: shirts BCC list? ----- Original Message ----- From: <htmills@bright.net> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 8:35 PM Subject: shirts and tethers Hi, guys.....I missed all the shirt excitement by being gone for a few days. I'll buy a few too assuming the design is halfways nicely done. Someone on the BCC list volunteered to make shirts for the group and I bought some from them. In their case it was a small but very distinctive profile of the BCC embroidered on the left breast with 3 colors of thread (brown, black, and white). ******** I bought some seat-belt type webbing a while back but haven't tried it out yet. This summer I'll try to make it a point to do a series of man-overboard tests with the assistance of my sister, brother-in-law and nephews. It would be nice to NOT make headlines with: Ohio Man Drowns in Erie during man-overboard drills Let's see. I could try: **various exit points (windward, leeward, foredeck, etc) **life-jacket only **life-jacket only with trailing line **life-jacket with tether **Mustang suit with tether Probably 15 kts should be enough wind to give an indication of whether getting aboard is feasible. I could have my sister and a nephew with me aboard Busca and another nephew and brother-in-law aboard their S2 motoring. A mob flag would probably be good to help keep sight of me...(I am reminded of the hat I lost on the Potomac last year). Tod _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Oh, yeah! Bristol Channel Cutter logo stuff would be great! It's odd that you didn't get the photos, because my message directly to your address didn't return "undeliverable" . . . I'll send the photos again this evening. ----- Original Message ----- From: <htmills@bright.net> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 11:39 PM Subject: shirts Bristol Channel Cutter (Hess design)......I used to subscribe to that list too. Craig, I never received any photos....if you e-mail them directly to me I'll be glad to post them on my web page until Doug gets a breather... Tod -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces+htmills=bright.net@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+htmills=bright.net@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Honshells Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 11:33 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: shirts BCC list? ----- Original Message ----- From: <htmills@bright.net> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 8:35 PM Subject: shirts and tethers Hi, guys.....I missed all the shirt excitement by being gone for a few days. I'll buy a few too assuming the design is halfways nicely done. Someone on the BCC list volunteered to make shirts for the group and I bought some from them. In their case it was a small but very distinctive profile of the BCC embroidered on the left breast with 3 colors of thread (brown, black, and white). ******** I bought some seat-belt type webbing a while back but haven't tried it out yet. This summer I'll try to make it a point to do a series of man-overboard tests with the assistance of my sister, brother-in-law and nephews. It would be nice to NOT make headlines with: Ohio Man Drowns in Erie during man-overboard drills Let's see. I could try: **various exit points (windward, leeward, foredeck, etc) **life-jacket only **life-jacket only with trailing line **life-jacket with tether **Mustang suit with tether Probably 15 kts should be enough wind to give an indication of whether getting aboard is feasible. I could have my sister and a nephew with me aboard Busca and another nephew and brother-in-law aboard their S2 motoring. A mob flag would probably be good to help keep sight of me...(I am reminded of the hat I lost on the Potomac last year). Tod _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Jon, I have an M15 and use a flat web jack line on each side of the boat. It runs from the bow cleat to each stern cleat and is inside the shrouds. I tried regular round line but I stepped on in frequently and it rolls underfoot causing you to fall off the boat. - This is not good :) I chose to run the jack line inside the shrouds to keep the harness line short enough to allow good fordeck movement without it's forward movement being stopped by the person going inside the shroud and the jack line going outside. To get around the problem of having falling off the boat forwad of the shroud and not being able to reach the stern I use two harness lines. both harness lines have caribine clips but one is is in a 3 inch loop with a rubber band around it so it is out of the way. The assumtion is that the user in the water would be alert enough to loosen the second harness line and reach up and connect it to the jack line. He would then release the firs harness line and continue on to the stern. This jack line has proven usefull to tie bumpers to anywhere along the hull and for this reason alone I never sail without it. The this jack line is also about 6 ft longer than it needs to be and the extra line is at both sides of the stern so I always have a ready line to tie off the tiller with. This mentally works for me but I have never actually had to use it nor have I tested it with the boat in motion in waves. Doug Kelch M15 #310 "Seas the Day" --- Jon Martin <jonmartin666@msn.com> wrote:
All of this talk about safety has got me to thinking about using a harness and tether on my M15, since I sail alone a lot of the time. It appears that the tethers I've looked at are around six feet long. I'm thinking that the attachment point should be on the stern,so that in the event that one did go overboard one could end up behind the boat and use the stern ladder to get back in. My initial thought was on the teak strip that the cb pennant comes through...but, with only six feet of tether, one would end up being dragged along the side of the boat, and trying to board over the side , most likely in rough weather. I haven't tried boarding over the side by myself, as I doubt I'd make it!! The first thing I did when I got my boat was to install a transom mounted ladder - it does work! What are people's thoughts? Jon in Walla Walla
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participants (8)
-
Doug Kelch -
GILBERT -
Honshells -
htmills＠bright.net -
Jon Martin -
n9ca -
Randy Graves -
William B. Riker