Some thoughts from my keel repair adventures... What year is your M17? So we know if it's steel or lead ballast. Mine is 1974, so steel punchings ballast. I had no idea the fin keel connected to the main keel in that way. Never drilled into my fin keel, as my issue was water apparently getting into the main keel. So I drilled test holes there, and found some water had gotten in, and various repairs followed, not relevant here (yet). However if the aft fin part of the keel does connect to the main keel and is hollow, as you have found, then if you had water in there, it may well (most likely?) have come in through the main keel (meaning water got into your keel interior, probably filled any/all voids if it rose all the way up to the fin keel). As far as I know, there is complete separation of the keel interior from the interior of the hull. In other words the keel section is sealed off from the hull interior above the keel. There is certainly no opening between them in my M17. The 'mud' in your fin I have no explanation for - unless you have steel ballast and the 'mud' was actually rusted steel punchings (they are very tiny bits) and/or rust particulate. Some of what I found in fixing seepage into my keel could have been mistaken for 'mud' or something like that but was actually metal/rust grit of a 'muddy' color. One way to check for water in the lower keel - what I did - was to drill some test holes a few inches up from the bottom of the keel, along the outsides. I drilled upwards at an angle with a relatively small bit, 1/4" to start I think, or 5/16". You will drill through the keel wall and into the void where the ballast/resin is, and if you hit an area with loose ballast not fully resin-encapsulated, if there's water in there it will of course run out, along with some bits of ballast. It may be somewhat murky/muddy looking, in my case from grit/rust off the steel punchings, and also an oily scent, I assume from machining oil that was on the punchings when they were put in. No idea where your water might have come in, but I think the "weak points" (likely suspects) are the holes where the CB stop pin goes through (where mine was leaking AFAIK, apparently from some prior damage and poorly done repair work), the CB pivot bolt hole/tube, and possibly the joint between the keel bottom and the inner CB trunk sides. HTH... John S. On 06/18/2017 11:47 AM, Alan Oltman wrote:

Hello everyone. I recently bought an M17 and am in the process of repairing and repainting. I have come across something curious I need help with. There is a small fin keel that extends from the keel aft along the center line, to the transom. It is only 5 or 6 inches deep at this aftermost point. Mine looked a little beat up so I thought I’d have a closer look. I drilled a 1” hole in the side, near the transom, and to my surprise, the fin is hollow. Mine, however, contained mud and water. I vacuumed out as much as I could but need to know how mud could have gotten into this “keelette”. The hollow space goes all the way to the keel itself. I can’t see under the cabin sole to know whether the hollow space connects with the cabin. Can I flush it out with water (it was already wet so what the heck)? How can I keep this from happening once I repair this fin? Thanks in advance, AL in MPLS

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Hi Alan, I've only got a little M 12, but have worked on a lot of boats. One thing to remember is that fiberglass layup requires gelcoat to be waterproof. Wherever there is not gelcoat, or paint, water can slowly weep through. One of our boats kept getting water down into the keel area and I was baffled. I finally crawled in, opened every cavity, and had my wife blast it with a hose. Nothing evident, and it nearly drove me crazy. Finally, in a big rainstorm I crawled in, battened down and watched. After time, I noticed water barely weeping through the laminate at the hull to deck joint, then tiny drips running down into the keel cavity. I'm not sure of the keel to deck joint in the larger M boats, but in multiple boats I've worked on its an issue. The solution was to pull off the rub rail, drill out the rivets, clean the joint, shoot in 3M 5200, and while it is still soft, tighten new stainless fasteners almost all the way. Then, after the cure to cinch them down another turn. Then, heat the rubrail in a bucket of hot water and re-install. This is all to say that sometimes the sources of the water can be baffling. Go at it methodically and you will find it. Be very suspicious of any area without gel coat, and any joint, which will likely have failed due to age. Also, at this age nearly every cleat and running light and winch will be leaking, too. 5200 is a wonderful product, and should be considered permanent. If you use it, the rep from the company told us to store the unused portion in the freezer and it will store well for the next use. Not knowing your level of experience, I will assume little. If you do anything to the 'glass work, assume it was waxed and de-wax it properly with the right products before trying to add anything--or it won't stick for beans. Do not sand first, as you will just put the wax in the resin into the substrate. Dewax, sand, dewax, wipe down with acetone (wearing Nitrile gloves), leave a rough surface, then add your new stuff--- epoxy adheres well compared to fiberglass resin. Study this matter well on the 'net from good sources, as the toxicity is no joke. My son is a fireman.... Keep an extinguisher... several...handy at all times. Don't breathe the smoke from any synthetic. Two inhalations of that smoke will knock a man flat. Burt Lowry Surry, Maine On Sun, Jun 18, 2017 at 2:47 PM, Alan Oltman <heybuddy@frontiernet.net> wrote:

Hello everyone. I recently bought an M17 and am in the process of repairing and repainting. I have come across something curious I need help with. There is a small fin keel that extends from the keel aft along the center line, to the transom. It is only 5 or 6 inches deep at this aftermost point. Mine looked a little beat up so I thought I’d have a closer look. I drilled a 1” hole in the side, near the transom, and to my surprise, the fin is hollow. Mine, however, contained mud and water. I vacuumed out as much as I could but need to know how mud could have gotten into this “keelette”. The hollow space goes all the way to the keel itself. I can’t see under the cabin sole to know whether the hollow space connects with the cabin. Can I flush it out with water (it was already wet so what the heck)? How can I keep this from happening once I repair this fin? Thanks in advance, AL in MPLS