Hi Jason. Mine had the original setup in it when I go it. Here’s a couple of photos.
On Oct 12, 2022, at 12:46 PM, Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi All,
Would someone be able to send me a picture of their main sail traveller system? The previous owner of my boat removed it so that the lower block on my main sheet is attached at fixed point in middle of the cockpit. It works fine but it would be nice to bring it back to the original design of the boat which most of you likely have.
Thank you in advance for your help.
Jason Leckie
Kuma M17 Hull #340 1980
Thank you Sean! I saw old screw holes almost at my companionway on the cockpit floor thinking the track may have been mounted there but yours looks to be almost mid cockpit. (Maybe there has been more than one designed layout over the years?) Thanks Again! On Wed, Oct 12, 2022 at 1:36 PM sailhavasu via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Hi Jason. Mine had the original setup in it when I go it. Here’s a couple of photos.
On Oct 12, 2022, at 12:46 PM, Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi All,
Would someone be able to send me a picture of their main sail traveller system? The previous owner of my boat removed it so that the lower block on my main sheet is attached at fixed point in middle of the cockpit. It works fine but it would be nice to bring it back to the original design of the boat which most of you likely have.
Thank you in advance for your help.
Jason Leckie
Kuma M17 Hull #340 1980
On Wed, Oct 12, 2022 at 4:28 PM Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you Sean!
I saw old screw holes almost at my companionway on the cockpit floor thinking the track may have been mounted there but yours looks to be almost mid cockpit. (Maybe there has been more than one designed layout over the years?)
Thanks Again!
On Wed, Oct 12, 2022 at 1:36 PM sailhavasu via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Hi Jason. Mine had the original setup in it when I go it. Here’s a couple of photos.
On Oct 12, 2022, at 12:46 PM, Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi All,
Would someone be able to send me a picture of their main sail traveller system? The previous owner of my boat removed it so that the lower block on my main sheet is attached at fixed point in middle of the cockpit. It works fine but it would be nice to bring it back to the original design of the boat which most of you likely have.
Thank you in advance for your help.
Jason Leckie
Kuma M17 Hull #340 1980
-- Sent from Gmail Mobile
Hi Henry, I had just ran into your pictures on the photo site a few minutes ago, that location is more like what mine probably was before it was removed. The photo site seems to be a bit squirrelly right now, i’m not able to click on the pictures for a better view. Do you have hardware that you recommend for this? On Wed, Oct 12, 2022 at 2:43 PM Henry Rodriguez <heinzir@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 12, 2022 at 4:28 PM Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you Sean!
I saw old screw holes almost at my companionway on the cockpit floor thinking the track may have been mounted there but yours looks to be almost mid cockpit. (Maybe there has been more than one designed layout over the years?)
Thanks Again!
On Wed, Oct 12, 2022 at 1:36 PM sailhavasu via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Hi Jason. Mine had the original setup in it when I go it. Here’s a couple of photos.
On Oct 12, 2022, at 12:46 PM, Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi All,
Would someone be able to send me a picture of their main sail traveller system? The previous owner of my boat removed it so that the lower block on my main sheet is attached at fixed point in middle of the cockpit. It works fine but it would be nice to bring it back to the original design of the boat which most of you likely have.
Thank you in advance for your help.
Jason Leckie
Kuma M17 Hull #340 1980
-- Sent from Gmail Mobile
Jason: Jerry first installed the travelers at the companionway - best location actually. The mounting location slowly moved aft through the years to about mid-cockpit as folks complained it interfered with getting in/out of the cockpit. :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com On Wed, Oct 12, 2022, 14:28 Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you Sean!
I saw old screw holes almost at my companionway on the cockpit floor thinking the track may have been mounted there but yours looks to be almost mid cockpit. (Maybe there has been more than one designed layout over the years?)
Thanks Again!
On Wed, Oct 12, 2022 at 1:36 PM sailhavasu via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Hi Jason. Mine had the original setup in it when I go it. Here’s a couple of photos.
On Oct 12, 2022, at 12:46 PM, Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi All,
Would someone be able to send me a picture of their main sail traveller system? The previous owner of my boat removed it so that the lower block on my main sheet is attached at fixed point in middle of the cockpit. It works fine but it would be nice to bring it back to the original design of the boat which most of you likely have.
Thank you in advance for your help.
Jason Leckie
Kuma M17 Hull #340 1980
Hi Dave, Ah right, I think the original boom connection lines up with the forward position on my boat also. I would think that the previous owner also may have not liked having the traveller there also and the reason for removing it. Much better sail control having it though I would imagine. (Still a great sailing boat even without it) Thank you, On Wed, Oct 12, 2022 at 2:51 PM Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Jason:
Jerry first installed the travelers at the companionway - best location actually. The mounting location slowly moved aft through the years to about mid-cockpit as folks complained it interfered with getting in/out of the cockpit.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
On Wed, Oct 12, 2022, 14:28 Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you Sean!
I saw old screw holes almost at my companionway on the cockpit floor thinking the track may have been mounted there but yours looks to be almost mid cockpit. (Maybe there has been more than one designed layout over the years?)
Thanks Again!
On Wed, Oct 12, 2022 at 1:36 PM sailhavasu via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Hi Jason. Mine had the original setup in it when I go it. Here’s a couple of photos.
On Oct 12, 2022, at 12:46 PM, Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi All,
Would someone be able to send me a picture of their main sail traveller system? The previous owner of my boat removed it so that the lower block on my main sheet is attached at fixed point in middle of the cockpit. It works fine but it would be nice to bring it back to the original design of the boat which most of you likely have.
Thank you in advance for your help.
Jason Leckie
Kuma M17 Hull #340 1980
Jason, There is a problem with the msogphotosite right now, my thumbnails will not expand. Here is a better photo of my traveler. I used parts I had on hand from other projects, except for the traveler track itself and the ball bearing car. These are Harken brand, normally expensive but I found a deal on eBay. The cam cleat fair leads are from Nautos-USA.com . I originally mounted them vertically but ended up removing them and turning them to a better angle for where I normally sit. I also mounted them on wooden wedges for easier clearing. Jerry recommends 2:1 purchase but I used 3:1 cuz I’m getting old. The control line tails are tied together so that a flick of the wrist will release the leeward line while pulling the windward one. On Wed, Oct 12, 2022 at 4:59 PM Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Dave,
Ah right, I think the original boom connection lines up with the forward position on my boat also. I would think that the previous owner also may have not liked having the traveller there also and the reason for removing it.
Much better sail control having it though I would imagine. (Still a great sailing boat even without it)
Thank you,
On Wed, Oct 12, 2022 at 2:51 PM Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Jason:
Jerry first installed the travelers at the companionway - best location actually. The mounting location slowly moved aft through the years to about mid-cockpit as folks complained it interfered with getting in/out of the cockpit.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
On Wed, Oct 12, 2022, 14:28 Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you Sean!
I saw old screw holes almost at my companionway on the cockpit floor thinking the track may have been mounted there but yours looks to be almost mid cockpit. (Maybe there has been more than one designed layout over the years?)
Thanks Again!
On Wed, Oct 12, 2022 at 1:36 PM sailhavasu via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Hi Jason. Mine had the original setup in it when I go it. Here’s a couple of photos.
On Oct 12, 2022, at 12:46 PM, Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi All,
Would someone be able to send me a picture of their main sail traveller system? The previous owner of my boat removed it so that the lower block on my main sheet is attached at fixed point in middle of the cockpit. It works fine but it would be nice to bring it back to the original design of the boat which most of you likely have.
Thank you in advance for your help.
Jason Leckie
Kuma M17 Hull #340 1980
-- Sent from Gmail Mobile
Yep your boat is old enough that the original traveler was just aft of companionway, as mine is. That was the original location and for at least some hundreds of boats, judging by your hull number. It way less interferes with moving around in cockpit and/or tiller to have it there, I am quite happy with the location. Also less in the way when I have 'passengers' on board - meaning people who know less about how to stay out of the way of lines and tiller than 'crew' :-) As long as it's on some kind of sliding track, it's easy to slide it off to one side or the other when you're anchored, moored, whatever. I also use a bungie cord from cabin top grab rail to boom to hold the boom and sheet off to the side when not sailing. When sailing the sheet is always off to one side or the other even if the traveler is centered ,so I have not found it to be in the way in practice. The one possible downside is that the mainsheet is further forward on the boom, so less leverage vs. wind on sail, so you might want one more turn in your mainsheet tackle, depending on what you have now. Mine came with 3:1 but I upped it to 4:1. The 3:1 was just too hard to sheet in when it was blowing briskly... cheers, John On 10/12/22 14:27, Jason Leckie wrote:
Thank you Sean!
I saw old screw holes almost at my companionway on the cockpit floor thinking the track may have been mounted there but yours looks to be almost mid cockpit. (Maybe there has been more than one designed layout over the years?)
Thanks Again!
On Wed, Oct 12, 2022 at 1:36 PM sailhavasu via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Hi Jason. Mine had the original setup in it when I go it. Here’s a couple of photos.
On Oct 12, 2022, at 12:46 PM, Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi All,
Would someone be able to send me a picture of their main sail traveller system? The previous owner of my boat removed it so that the lower block on my main sheet is attached at fixed point in middle of the cockpit. It works fine but it would be nice to bring it back to the original design of the boat which most of you likely have.
Thank you in advance for your help.
Jason Leckie
Kuma M17 Hull #340 1980
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Ok, that’s good to know John. Doing a 4:1 pulley setup sounds like the way to go. Thank you, On Wed, Oct 12, 2022 at 3:12 PM John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Yep your boat is old enough that the original traveler was just aft of companionway, as mine is. That was the original location and for at least some hundreds of boats, judging by your hull number.
It way less interferes with moving around in cockpit and/or tiller to have it there, I am quite happy with the location. Also less in the way when I have 'passengers' on board - meaning people who know less about how to stay out of the way of lines and tiller than 'crew' :-)
As long as it's on some kind of sliding track, it's easy to slide it off to one side or the other when you're anchored, moored, whatever. I also use a bungie cord from cabin top grab rail to boom to hold the boom and sheet off to the side when not sailing.
When sailing the sheet is always off to one side or the other even if the traveler is centered ,so I have not found it to be in the way in practice.
The one possible downside is that the mainsheet is further forward on the boom, so less leverage vs. wind on sail, so you might want one more turn in your mainsheet tackle, depending on what you have now.
Mine came with 3:1 but I upped it to 4:1. The 3:1 was just too hard to sheet in when it was blowing briskly...
cheers, John
On 10/12/22 14:27, Jason Leckie wrote:
Thank you Sean!
I saw old screw holes almost at my companionway on the cockpit floor thinking the track may have been mounted there but yours looks to be almost mid cockpit. (Maybe there has been more than one designed layout over the years?)
Thanks Again!
On Wed, Oct 12, 2022 at 1:36 PM sailhavasu via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Hi Jason. Mine had the original setup in it when I go it. Here’s a couple of photos.
On Oct 12, 2022, at 12:46 PM, Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi All,
Would someone be able to send me a picture of their main sail traveller system? The previous owner of my boat removed it so that the lower block on my main sheet is attached at fixed point in middle of the cockpit. It works fine but it would be nice to bring it back to the original design of the boat which most of you likely have.
Thank you in advance for your help.
Jason Leckie
Kuma M17 Hull #340 1980
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Hi Henry, Looks like I have a good winter project now for the boat. She is still in the water right now and me and the Mrs. have been enjoying the unusually dry and warm Pacific Northwest weather by heading out for a sail each weekend in Point Roberts, WA. Thanks for the info, Jason On Wed, Oct 12, 2022 at 3:22 PM Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Ok, that’s good to know John.
Doing a 4:1 pulley setup sounds like the way to go.
Thank you,
On Wed, Oct 12, 2022 at 3:12 PM John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Yep your boat is old enough that the original traveler was just aft of companionway, as mine is. That was the original location and for at least some hundreds of boats, judging by your hull number.
It way less interferes with moving around in cockpit and/or tiller to have it there, I am quite happy with the location. Also less in the way when I have 'passengers' on board - meaning people who know less about how to stay out of the way of lines and tiller than 'crew' :-)
As long as it's on some kind of sliding track, it's easy to slide it off to one side or the other when you're anchored, moored, whatever. I also use a bungie cord from cabin top grab rail to boom to hold the boom and sheet off to the side when not sailing.
When sailing the sheet is always off to one side or the other even if the traveler is centered ,so I have not found it to be in the way in practice.
The one possible downside is that the mainsheet is further forward on the boom, so less leverage vs. wind on sail, so you might want one more turn in your mainsheet tackle, depending on what you have now.
Mine came with 3:1 but I upped it to 4:1. The 3:1 was just too hard to sheet in when it was blowing briskly...
cheers, John
On 10/12/22 14:27, Jason Leckie wrote:
Thank you Sean!
I saw old screw holes almost at my companionway on the cockpit floor thinking the track may have been mounted there but yours looks to be almost mid cockpit. (Maybe there has been more than one designed layout over the years?)
Thanks Again!
On Wed, Oct 12, 2022 at 1:36 PM sailhavasu via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Hi Jason. Mine had the original setup in it when I go it. Here’s a couple of photos.
On Oct 12, 2022, at 12:46 PM, Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi All,
Would someone be able to send me a picture of their main sail traveller system? The previous owner of my boat removed it so that the lower block on my main sheet is attached at fixed point in middle of the cockpit. It works fine but it would be nice to bring it back to the original design of the boat which most of you likely have.
Thank you in advance for your help.
Jason Leckie
Kuma M17 Hull #340 1980
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
I’m sure there probably was more than one design. There are totally different deck molds as well. :-).
On Oct 12, 2022, at 2:28 PM, Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you Sean!
I saw old screw holes almost at my companionway on the cockpit floor thinking the track may have been mounted there but yours looks to be almost mid cockpit. (Maybe there has been more than one designed layout over the years?)
Thanks Again!
On Wed, Oct 12, 2022 at 1:36 PM sailhavasu via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Hi Jason. Mine had the original setup in it when I go it. Here’s a couple of photos.
On Oct 12, 2022, at 12:46 PM, Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi All,
Would someone be able to send me a picture of their main sail traveller system? The previous owner of my boat removed it so that the lower block on my main sheet is attached at fixed point in middle of the cockpit. It works fine but it would be nice to bring it back to the original design of the boat which most of you likely have.
Thank you in advance for your help.
Jason Leckie
Kuma M17 Hull #340 1980
That’s true, looks like they were built from 1973 till about 2015, 42 years of production, there are bound to be all kinds of adjustments to the design. Cheers, Jason On Wed, Oct 12, 2022 at 3:35 PM sailhavasu via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
I’m sure there probably was more than one design. There are totally different deck molds as well. :-).
On Oct 12, 2022, at 2:28 PM, Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you Sean!
I saw old screw holes almost at my companionway on the cockpit floor thinking the track may have been mounted there but yours looks to be almost mid cockpit. (Maybe there has been more than one designed layout over the years?)
Thanks Again!
On Wed, Oct 12, 2022 at 1:36 PM sailhavasu via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Hi Jason. Mine had the original setup in it when I go it. Here’s a couple of photos.
On Oct 12, 2022, at 12:46 PM, Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi All,
Would someone be able to send me a picture of their main sail traveller system? The previous owner of my boat removed it so that the lower block on my main sheet is attached at fixed point in middle of the cockpit. It works fine but it would be nice to bring it back to the original design of the boat which most of you likely have.
Thank you in advance for your help.
Jason Leckie
Kuma M17 Hull #340 1980
Not the best picture but I think it will show you what you are looking for. It was there when I bought M17. It was a regatta boat sailed with a crew. I only single hand and found the tiller to long so cut 12” off it. I use a tiller extension with it. As far as I am concerned to single hand an extension is a must. Some may wonder about the mount. It is for a 2000 AP. Another reason for a shorter tiller. Hope picture helps. Charlie Sent from my iPad
On Oct 12, 2022, at 5:28 PM, Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you Sean!
I saw old screw holes almost at my companionway on the cockpit floor thinking the track may have been mounted there but yours looks to be almost mid cockpit. (Maybe there has been more than one designed layout over the years?)
Thanks Again!
On Wed, Oct 12, 2022 at 1:36 PM sailhavasu via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Hi Jason. Mine had the original setup in it when I go it. Here’s a couple of photos.
On Oct 12, 2022, at 12:46 PM, Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi All,
Would someone be able to send me a picture of their main sail traveller system? The previous owner of my boat removed it so that the lower block on my main sheet is attached at fixed point in middle of the cockpit. It works fine but it would be nice to bring it back to the original design of the boat which most of you likely have.
Thank you in advance for your help.
Jason Leckie
Kuma M17 Hull #340 1980
I should have added in my mail on Traveler and M17 used as a regatta boat. Traveler is in ideal location for that. Captain sets behind with tiller and controls main sheet. Crew, one or two, is in front of traveler with freedom to move around. I’m sure majority know all this but based on some question I’ve seen thought I would add why the advantage of a mid cockpit traveler. I believe for single handing traveler would be best behind tiller. Again you would have freedom to move around cockpit. Of course all this is personal preference. Charlie Sent from my iPad
On Oct 13, 2022, at 9:49 AM, Charles Adams via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Not the best picture but I think it will show you what you are looking for. It was there when I bought M17. It was a regatta boat sailed with a crew. I only single hand and found the tiller to long so cut 12” off it. I use a tiller extension with it. As far as I am concerned to single hand an extension is a must.
Some may wonder about the mount. It is for a 2000 AP. Another reason for a shorter tiller.
Hope picture helps.
Charlie Sent from my iPad
On Oct 12, 2022, at 5:28 PM, Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you Sean!
I saw old screw holes almost at my companionway on the cockpit floor thinking the track may have been mounted there but yours looks to be almost mid cockpit. (Maybe there has been more than one designed layout over the years?)
Thanks Again!
On Wed, Oct 12, 2022 at 1:36 PM sailhavasu via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Hi Jason. Mine had the original setup in it when I go it. Here’s a couple of photos.
On Oct 12, 2022, at 12:46 PM, Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi All,
Would someone be able to send me a picture of their main sail traveller system? The previous owner of my boat removed it so that the lower block on my main sheet is attached at fixed point in middle of the cockpit. It works fine but it would be nice to bring it back to the original design of the boat which most of you likely have.
Thank you in advance for your help.
Jason Leckie
Kuma M17 Hull #340 1980
Looks like you have the fancy Harken windward $$$heeting car also... I figure some previous owner of my boat must have been way into racing and that's why they installed it. Though the amount of travel, with 4 ft. long track bolted on top of seats, seems a little more than necessary even for a hardcore racer! But they clearly weren't concerned with easy cabin access... cheers, John On 10/13/22 07:09, Charles Adams via montgomery_boats wrote:
I should have added in my mail on Traveler and M17 used as a regatta boat. Traveler is in ideal location for that. Captain sets behind with tiller and controls main sheet. Crew, one or two, is in front of traveler with freedom to move around.
I’m sure majority know all this but based on some question I’ve seen thought I would add why the advantage of a mid cockpit traveler. I believe for single handing traveler would be best behind tiller. Again you would have freedom to move around cockpit. Of course all this is personal preference.
Charlie
Sent from my iPad
On Oct 13, 2022, at 9:49 AM, Charles Adams via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Not the best picture but I think it will show you what you are looking for. It was there when I bought M17. It was a regatta boat sailed with a crew. I only single hand and found the tiller to long so cut 12” off it. I use a tiller extension with it. As far as I am concerned to single hand an extension is a must.
Some may wonder about the mount. It is for a 2000 AP. Another reason for a shorter tiller.
Hope picture helps.
Charlie Sent from my iPad
On Oct 12, 2022, at 5:28 PM, Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you Sean!
I saw old screw holes almost at my companionway on the cockpit floor thinking the track may have been mounted there but yours looks to be almost mid cockpit. (Maybe there has been more than one designed layout over the years?)
Thanks Again!
On Wed, Oct 12, 2022 at 1:36 PM sailhavasu via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Hi Jason. Mine had the original setup in it when I go it. Here’s a couple of photos.
>> On Oct 12, 2022, at 12:46 PM, Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi All, > > Would someone be able to send me a picture of their main sail traveller > system? The previous owner of my boat removed it so that the lower block on my main sheet is attached at fixed point in middle of the cockpit. It works fine but it would be nice to bring it back to the original design of the boat which most of you likely have.
Thank you in advance for your help.
Jason Leckie
Kuma M17 Hull #340 1980
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Autopilot is definitely a nice addition, maybe something I will add in the future. Has your Autopilot been reliable? Thanks Charlie On Thu, Oct 13, 2022 at 6:49 AM Charles Adams via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Not the best picture but I think it will show you what you are looking for. It was there when I bought M17. It was a regatta boat sailed with a crew. I only single hand and found the tiller to long so cut 12” off it. I use a tiller extension with it. As far as I am concerned to single hand an extension is a must.
Some may wonder about the mount. It is for a 2000 AP. Another reason for a shorter tiller.
Hope picture helps.
Charlie Sent from my iPad
On Oct 12, 2022, at 5:28 PM, Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you Sean!
I saw old screw holes almost at my companionway on the cockpit floor thinking the track may have been mounted there but yours looks to be almost mid cockpit. (Maybe there has been more than one designed layout over the years?)
Thanks Again!
On Wed, Oct 12, 2022 at 1:36 PM sailhavasu via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Hi Jason. Mine had the original setup in it when I go it. Here’s a couple of photos.
On Oct 12, 2022, at 12:46 PM, Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi All,
Would someone be able to send me a picture of their main sail traveller system? The previous owner of my boat removed it so that the lower block on my main sheet is attached at fixed point in middle of the cockpit. It works fine but it would be nice to bring it back to the original design of the boat which most of you likely have.
Thank you in advance for your help.
Jason Leckie
Kuma M17 Hull #340 1980
It is a top rated AP with a reasonable price and why I bought it. Check it on Amazon. Westmarine also offers it. Check YouTube also. I haven’t used it enough to give a good report but will say it is very simple to use. Charlie Sent from my iPad
On Oct 13, 2022, at 3:16 PM, Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Autopilot is definitely a nice addition, maybe something I will add in the future. Has your Autopilot been reliable?
Thanks Charlie
On Thu, Oct 13, 2022 at 6:49 AM Charles Adams via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Not the best picture but I think it will show you what you are looking for. It was there when I bought M17. It was a regatta boat sailed with a crew. I only single hand and found the tiller to long so cut 12” off it. I use a tiller extension with it. As far as I am concerned to single hand an extension is a must.
Some may wonder about the mount. It is for a 2000 AP. Another reason for a shorter tiller.
Hope picture helps.
Charlie Sent from my iPad
On Oct 12, 2022, at 5:28 PM, Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you Sean!
I saw old screw holes almost at my companionway on the cockpit floor thinking the track may have been mounted there but yours looks to be almost mid cockpit. (Maybe there has been more than one designed layout over the years?)
Thanks Again!
On Wed, Oct 12, 2022 at 1:36 PM sailhavasu via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Hi Jason. Mine had the original setup in it when I go it. Here’s a couple of photos.
On Oct 12, 2022, at 12:46 PM, Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi All,
Would someone be able to send me a picture of their main sail traveller system? The previous owner of my boat removed it so that the lower block on my main sheet is attached at fixed point in middle of the cockpit. It works fine but it would be nice to bring it back to the original design of the boat which most of you likely have.
Thank you in advance for your help.
Jason Leckie
Kuma M17 Hull #340 1980
I no longer sail a M-17 as I downsized to a 15, but I had a mainsheet system that solved all the concerns I had for an ‘open and clear’ cockpit space AND allowed the boom to come above centerline when I required it. Looks too good to be true, but it works. Back in my dinghy racing days, it became fashionable to use a ‘split tail mainsheet. Snipes,C-15’s and other classes have used the split tail for decades. Using the system you are able to move the boom to weather of the centerline as far as a cockpit seat top mounted track without the hardware intruding into that valuable cockpit space. You have less deck penetrations to leak. You will have more money for new sails. You will not have: a track running across your cockpit, banged shins, crew sitting on your traveler, additional control lines, to remember to drop or pull the traveler to the new tack. If you like hardware- ignore the split tail sheet system- if you like simple systems that work, search out ‘split tail mainsheet’ systems. I have tried with limited success to explain the machinations involved, best shown in practice (I have never been a geometry teacher). I no longer own the boat so I cannot make a video. Would you like one less control to attend to, but still have the benefit of a mainsheet traveler? Check it out. PS- I have not yet tried this setup on a M-15, but it should work. Mainsheet tension is not a function of the sheet in order to work, note most dinghies do not have a backstay to maintain headstay tension. Photos of a ‘clear cockpit’ and a split tail mainsheet on the above mentioned M-17. Have fUn, check out ‘split tail mainsheet’, go sailing! GO On Thu, Oct 13, 2022 at 3:48 PM Charles Adams via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
It is a top rated AP with a reasonable price and why I bought it. Check it on Amazon. Westmarine also offers it. Check YouTube also. I haven’t used it enough to give a good report but will say it is very simple to use.
Charlie
Sent from my iPad
On Oct 13, 2022, at 3:16 PM, Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Autopilot is definitely a nice addition, maybe something I will add in the future. Has your Autopilot been reliable?
Thanks Charlie
On Thu, Oct 13, 2022 at 6:49 AM Charles Adams via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Not the best picture but I think it will show you what you are looking for. It was there when I bought M17. It was a regatta boat sailed with a crew. I only single hand and found the tiller to long so cut 12” off it. I use a tiller extension with it. As far as I am concerned to single hand an extension is a must.
Some may wonder about the mount. It is for a 2000 AP. Another reason for a shorter tiller.
Hope picture helps.
Charlie Sent from my iPad
On Oct 12, 2022, at 5:28 PM, Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you Sean!
I saw old screw holes almost at my companionway on the cockpit floor thinking the track may have been mounted there but yours looks to be almost mid cockpit. (Maybe there has been more than one designed layout over the years?)
Thanks Again!
On Wed, Oct 12, 2022 at 1:36 PM sailhavasu via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Hi Jason. Mine had the original setup in it when I go it. Here’s a couple of photos.
> On Oct 12, 2022, at 12:46 PM, Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi All,
Would someone be able to send me a picture of their main sail traveller system? The previous owner of my boat removed it so that the lower block on my main sheet is attached at fixed point in middle of the cockpit. It works fine but it would be nice to bring it back to the original design of the boat which most of you likely have.
Thank you in advance for your help.
Jason Leckie
Kuma M17 Hull #340 1980
Hi Gary, Another compelling option to the traveller, looks like there are some pros and cons to each. I will dig deeper into this possibility.. Thanks, On Thu, Oct 13, 2022 at 7:04 PM Gary H.Oberbeck <fairandsquare1@gmail.com> wrote:
I no longer sail a M-17 as I downsized to a 15, but I had a mainsheet system that solved all the concerns I had for an ‘open and clear’ cockpit space AND allowed the boom to come above centerline when I required it. Looks too good to be true, but it works. Back in my dinghy racing days, it became fashionable to use a ‘split tail mainsheet. Snipes,C-15’s and other classes have used the split tail for decades. Using the system you are able to move the boom to weather of the centerline as far as a cockpit seat top mounted track without the hardware intruding into that valuable cockpit space. You have less deck penetrations to leak. You will have more money for new sails. You will not have: a track running across your cockpit, banged shins, crew sitting on your traveler, additional control lines, to remember to drop or pull the traveler to the new tack. If you like hardware- ignore the split tail sheet system- if you like simple systems that work, search out ‘split tail mainsheet’ systems. I have tried with limited success to explain the machinations involved, best shown in practice (I have never been a geometry teacher). I no longer own the boat so I cannot make a video. Would you like one less control to attend to, but still have the benefit of a mainsheet traveler? Check it out.
PS- I have not yet tried this setup on a M-15, but it should work. Mainsheet tension is not a function of the sheet in order to work, note most dinghies do not have a backstay to maintain headstay tension. Photos of a ‘clear cockpit’ and a split tail mainsheet on the above mentioned M-17. Have fUn, check out ‘split tail mainsheet’, go sailing! GO
On Thu, Oct 13, 2022 at 3:48 PM Charles Adams via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
It is a top rated AP with a reasonable price and why I bought it. Check it on Amazon. Westmarine also offers it. Check YouTube also. I haven’t used it enough to give a good report but will say it is very simple to use.
Charlie
Sent from my iPad
On Oct 13, 2022, at 3:16 PM, Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Autopilot is definitely a nice addition, maybe something I will add in the future. Has your Autopilot been reliable?
Thanks Charlie
On Thu, Oct 13, 2022 at 6:49 AM Charles Adams via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Not the best picture but I think it will show you what you are looking for. It was there when I bought M17. It was a regatta boat sailed with a crew. I only single hand and found the tiller to long so cut 12” off it. I use a tiller extension with it. As far as I am concerned to single hand an extension is a must.
Some may wonder about the mount. It is for a 2000 AP. Another reason for a shorter tiller.
Hope picture helps.
Charlie Sent from my iPad
On Oct 12, 2022, at 5:28 PM, Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you Sean!
I saw old screw holes almost at my companionway on the cockpit floor thinking the track may have been mounted there but yours looks to be almost mid cockpit. (Maybe there has been more than one designed layout over the years?)
Thanks Again!
On Wed, Oct 12, 2022 at 1:36 PM sailhavasu via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Hi Jason. Mine had the original setup in it when I go it. Here’s a couple of photos.
>> On Oct 12, 2022, at 12:46 PM, Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi All, > > Would someone be able to send me a picture of their main sail traveller > system? The previous owner of my boat removed it so that the lower block on > my main sheet is attached at fixed point in middle of the cockpit. It works > fine but it would be nice to bring it back to the original design of the > boat which most of you likely have. > > Thank you in advance for your help. > > Jason Leckie > > Kuma > M17 Hull #340 1980
As a super dorky option for the m15, I sometimes just take the rope traveler and loop it around one of the 2 stern cleats, trapping the pulley between the cleat and the end of the rope. Need to let slack on the mainsheet of course as the pulleyis much lower. No hardware needed and definitely gets the boom over anyway. On Thursday, October 13, 2022, 10:13:01 PM PDT, Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote: Hi Gary, Another compelling option to the traveller, looks like there are some pros and cons to each. I will dig deeper into this possibility.. Thanks, On Thu, Oct 13, 2022 at 7:04 PM Gary H.Oberbeck <fairandsquare1@gmail.com> wrote:
I no longer sail a M-17 as I downsized to a 15, but I had a mainsheet system that solved all the concerns I had for an ‘open and clear’ cockpit space AND allowed the boom to come above centerline when I required it. Looks too good to be true, but it works. Back in my dinghy racing days, it became fashionable to use a ‘split tail mainsheet. Snipes,C-15’s and other classes have used the split tail for decades. Using the system you are able to move the boom to weather of the centerline as far as a cockpit seat top mounted track without the hardware intruding into that valuable cockpit space. You have less deck penetrations to leak. You will have more money for new sails. You will not have: a track running across your cockpit, banged shins, crew sitting on your traveler, additional control lines, to remember to drop or pull the traveler to the new tack. If you like hardware- ignore the split tail sheet system- if you like simple systems that work, search out ‘split tail mainsheet’ systems. I have tried with limited success to explain the machinations involved, best shown in practice (I have never been a geometry teacher). I no longer own the boat so I cannot make a video. Would you like one less control to attend to, but still have the benefit of a mainsheet traveler? Check it out.
PS- I have not yet tried this setup on a M-15, but it should work. Mainsheet tension is not a function of the sheet in order to work, note most dinghies do not have a backstay to maintain headstay tension. Photos of a ‘clear cockpit’ and a split tail mainsheet on the above mentioned M-17. Have fUn, check out ‘split tail mainsheet’, go sailing! GO
On Thu, Oct 13, 2022 at 3:48 PM Charles Adams via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
It is a top rated AP with a reasonable price and why I bought it. Check it on Amazon. Westmarine also offers it. Check YouTube also. I haven’t used it enough to give a good report but will say it is very simple to use.
Charlie
Sent from my iPad
On Oct 13, 2022, at 3:16 PM, Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Autopilot is definitely a nice addition, maybe something I will add in the future. Has your Autopilot been reliable?
Thanks Charlie
On Thu, Oct 13, 2022 at 6:49 AM Charles Adams via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Not the best picture but I think it will show you what you are looking for. It was there when I bought M17. It was a regatta boat sailed with a crew. I only single hand and found the tiller to long so cut 12” off it. I use a tiller extension with it. As far as I am concerned to single hand an extension is a must.
Some may wonder about the mount. It is for a 2000 AP. Another reason for a shorter tiller.
Hope picture helps.
Charlie Sent from my iPad
On Oct 12, 2022, at 5:28 PM, Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you Sean!
I saw old screw holes almost at my companionway on the cockpit floor thinking the track may have been mounted there but yours looks to be almost mid cockpit. (Maybe there has been more than one designed layout over the years?)
Thanks Again!
On Wed, Oct 12, 2022 at 1:36 PM sailhavasu via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Hi Jason. Mine had the original setup in it when I go it. Here’s a couple of photos.
>> On Oct 12, 2022, at 12:46 PM, Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi All, > > Would someone be able to send me a picture of their main sail traveller > system? The previous owner of my boat removed it so that the lower block on > my main sheet is attached at fixed point in middle of the cockpit. It works > fine but it would be nice to bring it back to the original design of the > boat which most of you likely have. > > Thank you in advance for your help. > > Jason Leckie > > Kuma > M17 Hull #340 1980
Hi Gary, I remember many years ago I borrowed and tried your split tail mainsheet on my M15, and just tied the tails to the two aft cleats. It's possible that some more tweaking could have fixed this, but I found that I could not point well to weather in light winds compared to the factory setup, and my sail shape was really weird looking. If I remember correctly, my theory at the time was that it wasn't working because I could only get any headstay tension with the boom perfectly centered, and depending on conditions (especially very light wind) sometimes I wanted more tension with the boom a bit leeward. The stock M15 rigging can point to windward in very light wind better than almost any boat. A few weeks ago I did the Richmond Yacht Club (RYC) beercan race in very light winds, and found my M15 actually passing high end racing sailboats of all sizes. I am thinking for an M15, possibly an adjustable cleat for each tail could be useful. Using a continuous loop type system, they could both be adjusted from one side of the cockpit. Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary H.Oberbeck" <fairandsquare1@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: "Charles Adams" <chaada@aol.com> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2022 7:03:48 PM Subject: M_Boats: Re: Main Sail Traveller I no longer sail a M-17 as I downsized to a 15, but I had a mainsheet system that solved all the concerns I had for an ‘open and clear’ cockpit space AND allowed the boom to come above centerline when I required it. Looks too good to be true, but it works. Back in my dinghy racing days, it became fashionable to use a ‘split tail mainsheet. Snipes,C-15’s and other classes have used the split tail for decades. Using the system you are able to move the boom to weather of the centerline as far as a cockpit seat top mounted track without the hardware intruding into that valuable cockpit space. You have less deck penetrations to leak. You will have more money for new sails. You will not have: a track running across your cockpit, banged shins, crew sitting on your traveler, additional control lines, to remember to drop or pull the traveler to the new tack. If you like hardware- ignore the split tail sheet system- if you like simple systems that work, search out ‘split tail mainsheet’ systems. I have tried with limited success to explain the machinations involved, best shown in practice (I have never been a geometry teacher). I no longer own the boat so I cannot make a video. Would you like one less control to attend to, but still have the benefit of a mainsheet traveler? Check it out. PS- I have not yet tried this setup on a M-15, but it should work. Mainsheet tension is not a function of the sheet in order to work, note most dinghies do not have a backstay to maintain headstay tension. Photos of a ‘clear cockpit’ and a split tail mainsheet on the above mentioned M-17. Have fUn, check out ‘split tail mainsheet’, go sailing! GO
Just keep the M15 simple. It works perfectly as designed. All the time you spend trying to improve a virtually perfect boat could be spent enjoying sailing it. You’re not going to go from 5 knots to even 6 with any upgrades on that dinghy, any “improvements” could only result in tenths of a knot at most, and only add unnecessary complication with more things to fail. Just go sailing! R. www.rustyknorr.weebly.com
On Oct 14, 2022, at 10:33 AM, casioqv@usermail.com wrote:
Hi Gary,
I remember many years ago I borrowed and tried your split tail mainsheet on my M15, and just tied the tails to the two aft cleats. It's possible that some more tweaking could have fixed this, but I found that I could not point well to weather in light winds compared to the factory setup, and my sail shape was really weird looking. If I remember correctly, my theory at the time was that it wasn't working because I could only get any headstay tension with the boom perfectly centered, and depending on conditions (especially very light wind) sometimes I wanted more tension with the boom a bit leeward.
The stock M15 rigging can point to windward in very light wind better than almost any boat. A few weeks ago I did the Richmond Yacht Club (RYC) beercan race in very light winds, and found my M15 actually passing high end racing sailboats of all sizes.
I am thinking for an M15, possibly an adjustable cleat for each tail could be useful. Using a continuous loop type system, they could both be adjusted from one side of the cockpit.
Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157
----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary H.Oberbeck" <fairandsquare1@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: "Charles Adams" <chaada@aol.com> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2022 7:03:48 PM Subject: M_Boats: Re: Main Sail Traveller
I no longer sail a M-17 as I downsized to a 15, but I had a mainsheet system that solved all the concerns I had for an ‘open and clear’ cockpit space AND allowed the boom to come above centerline when I required it. Looks too good to be true, but it works. Back in my dinghy racing days, it became fashionable to use a ‘split tail mainsheet. Snipes,C-15’s and other classes have used the split tail for decades. Using the system you are able to move the boom to weather of the centerline as far as a cockpit seat top mounted track without the hardware intruding into that valuable cockpit space. You have less deck penetrations to leak. You will have more money for new sails. You will not have: a track running across your cockpit, banged shins, crew sitting on your traveler, additional control lines, to remember to drop or pull the traveler to the new tack. If you like hardware- ignore the split tail sheet system- if you like simple systems that work, search out ‘split tail mainsheet’ systems. I have tried with limited success to explain the machinations involved, best shown in practice (I have never been a geometry teacher). I no longer own the boat so I cannot make a video. Would you like one less control to attend to, but still have the benefit of a mainsheet traveler? Check it out.
PS- I have not yet tried this setup on a M-15, but it should work. Mainsheet tension is not a function of the sheet in order to work, note most dinghies do not have a backstay to maintain headstay tension. Photos of a ‘clear cockpit’ and a split tail mainsheet on the above mentioned M-17. Have fUn, check out ‘split tail mainsheet’, go sailing! GO
Rusty, your statement reminds me of my favorite quote from "Sensible Cruising: The Thoreau Approach" by Don Casey: "Some of the cruising books devote a page or two to the issue of external halyards versus internal halyards. Which kind does your boat have? Those are the ones for you." That quote was a huge relief to me and changed everything about sailing. I used to have a feeling that I always needed to upgrade things, change things, or get a different boat. Now I just enjoy sailing and forget about all of that. That said, if you like racing and like the engineering challenge, it can be really fun to do stuff like this, and can give you enough edge to win. Gary's previous M17 is really impressive, and truly fast with some brilliant modifications. Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157 S/V Defiant ----- Original Message ----- From: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: "Rusty Knorr" <rustyinafrica@yahoo.com> Sent: Friday, October 14, 2022 11:56:35 AM Subject: M_Boats: Re: Main Sail Traveller Just keep the M15 simple. It works perfectly as designed. All the time you spend trying to improve a virtually perfect boat could be spent enjoying sailing it. You’re not going to go from 5 knots to even 6 with any upgrades on that dinghy, any “improvements” could only result in tenths of a knot at most, and only add unnecessary complication with more things to fail. Just go sailing! R. www.rustyknorr.weebly.com
On Oct 14, 2022, at 10:33 AM, casioqv@usermail.com wrote:
Hi Gary,
I remember many years ago I borrowed and tried your split tail mainsheet on my M15, and just tied the tails to the two aft cleats. It's possible that some more tweaking could have fixed this, but I found that I could not point well to weather in light winds compared to the factory setup, and my sail shape was really weird looking. If I remember correctly, my theory at the time was that it wasn't working because I could only get any headstay tension with the boom perfectly centered, and depending on conditions (especially very light wind) sometimes I wanted more tension with the boom a bit leeward.
The stock M15 rigging can point to windward in very light wind better than almost any boat. A few weeks ago I did the Richmond Yacht Club (RYC) beercan race in very light winds, and found my M15 actually passing high end racing sailboats of all sizes.
I am thinking for an M15, possibly an adjustable cleat for each tail could be useful. Using a continuous loop type system, they could both be adjusted from one side of the cockpit.
Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157
----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary H.Oberbeck" <fairandsquare1@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: "Charles Adams" <chaada@aol.com> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2022 7:03:48 PM Subject: M_Boats: Re: Main Sail Traveller
I no longer sail a M-17 as I downsized to a 15, but I had a mainsheet system that solved all the concerns I had for an ‘open and clear’ cockpit space AND allowed the boom to come above centerline when I required it. Looks too good to be true, but it works. Back in my dinghy racing days, it became fashionable to use a ‘split tail mainsheet. Snipes,C-15’s and other classes have used the split tail for decades. Using the system you are able to move the boom to weather of the centerline as far as a cockpit seat top mounted track without the hardware intruding into that valuable cockpit space. You have less deck penetrations to leak. You will have more money for new sails. You will not have: a track running across your cockpit, banged shins, crew sitting on your traveler, additional control lines, to remember to drop or pull the traveler to the new tack. If you like hardware- ignore the split tail sheet system- if you like simple systems that work, search out ‘split tail mainsheet’ systems. I have tried with limited success to explain the machinations involved, best shown in practice (I have never been a geometry teacher). I no longer own the boat so I cannot make a video. Would you like one less control to attend to, but still have the benefit of a mainsheet traveler? Check it out.
PS- I have not yet tried this setup on a M-15, but it should work. Mainsheet tension is not a function of the sheet in order to work, note most dinghies do not have a backstay to maintain headstay tension. Photos of a ‘clear cockpit’ and a split tail mainsheet on the above mentioned M-17. Have fUn, check out ‘split tail mainsheet’, go sailing! GO
Don't know if I made it clear. You can do this (picture attached) on the m15-bridle and get the pulley on either side justby looping around the cleat. On Friday, October 14, 2022, 12:50:43 PM PDT, casioqv@usermail.com <casioqv@usermail.com> wrote: Rusty, your statement reminds me of my favorite quote from "Sensible Cruising: The Thoreau Approach" by Don Casey: "Some of the cruising books devote a page or two to the issue of external halyards versus internal halyards. Which kind does your boat have? Those are the ones for you." That quote was a huge relief to me and changed everything about sailing. I used to have a feeling that I always needed to upgrade things, change things, or get a different boat. Now I just enjoy sailing and forget about all of that. That said, if you like racing and like the engineering challenge, it can be really fun to do stuff like this, and can give you enough edge to win. Gary's previous M17 is really impressive, and truly fast with some brilliant modifications. Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157 S/V Defiant ----- Original Message ----- From: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: "Rusty Knorr" <rustyinafrica@yahoo.com> Sent: Friday, October 14, 2022 11:56:35 AM Subject: M_Boats: Re: Main Sail Traveller Just keep the M15 simple. It works perfectly as designed. All the time you spend trying to improve a virtually perfect boat could be spent enjoying sailing it. You’re not going to go from 5 knots to even 6 with any upgrades on that dinghy, any “improvements” could only result in tenths of a knot at most, and only add unnecessary complication with more things to fail. Just go sailing! R. www.rustyknorr.weebly.com
On Oct 14, 2022, at 10:33 AM, casioqv@usermail.com wrote:
Hi Gary,
I remember many years ago I borrowed and tried your split tail mainsheet on my M15, and just tied the tails to the two aft cleats. It's possible that some more tweaking could have fixed this, but I found that I could not point well to weather in light winds compared to the factory setup, and my sail shape was really weird looking. If I remember correctly, my theory at the time was that it wasn't working because I could only get any headstay tension with the boom perfectly centered, and depending on conditions (especially very light wind) sometimes I wanted more tension with the boom a bit leeward.
The stock M15 rigging can point to windward in very light wind better than almost any boat. A few weeks ago I did the Richmond Yacht Club (RYC) beercan race in very light winds, and found my M15 actually passing high end racing sailboats of all sizes.
I am thinking for an M15, possibly an adjustable cleat for each tail could be useful. Using a continuous loop type system, they could both be adjusted from one side of the cockpit.
Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157
----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary H.Oberbeck" <fairandsquare1@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: "Charles Adams" <chaada@aol.com> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2022 7:03:48 PM Subject: M_Boats: Re: Main Sail Traveller
I no longer sail a M-17 as I downsized to a 15, but I had a mainsheet system that solved all the concerns I had for an ‘open and clear’ cockpit space AND allowed the boom to come above centerline when I required it. Looks too good to be true, but it works. Back in my dinghy racing days, it became fashionable to use a ‘split tail mainsheet. Snipes,C-15’s and other classes have used the split tail for decades. Using the system you are able to move the boom to weather of the centerline as far as a cockpit seat top mounted track without the hardware intruding into that valuable cockpit space. You have less deck penetrations to leak. You will have more money for new sails. You will not have: a track running across your cockpit, banged shins, crew sitting on your traveler, additional control lines, to remember to drop or pull the traveler to the new tack. If you like hardware- ignore the split tail sheet system- if you like simple systems that work, search out ‘split tail mainsheet’ systems. I have tried with limited success to explain the machinations involved, best shown in practice (I have never been a geometry teacher). I no longer own the boat so I cannot make a video. Would you like one less control to attend to, but still have the benefit of a mainsheet traveler? Check it out.
PS- I have not yet tried this setup on a M-15, but it should work. Mainsheet tension is not a function of the sheet in order to work, note most dinghies do not have a backstay to maintain headstay tension. Photos of a ‘clear cockpit’ and a split tail mainsheet on the above mentioned M-17. Have fUn, check out ‘split tail mainsheet’, go sailing! GO
Got it! Have fUn, go sailing! GO M-15 #330 ‘Cahoots’ On Fri, Oct 14, 2022 at 1:47 PM Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Don't know if I made it clear. You can do this (picture attached) on the m15-bridle and get the pulley on either side justby looping around the cleat.
On Friday, October 14, 2022, 12:50:43 PM PDT, casioqv@usermail.com < casioqv@usermail.com> wrote:
Rusty, your statement reminds me of my favorite quote from "Sensible Cruising: The Thoreau Approach" by Don Casey:
"Some of the cruising books devote a page or two to the issue of external halyards versus internal halyards. Which kind does your boat have? Those are the ones for you."
That quote was a huge relief to me and changed everything about sailing. I used to have a feeling that I always needed to upgrade things, change things, or get a different boat. Now I just enjoy sailing and forget about all of that.
That said, if you like racing and like the engineering challenge, it can be really fun to do stuff like this, and can give you enough edge to win. Gary's previous M17 is really impressive, and truly fast with some brilliant modifications.
Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157 S/V Defiant
----- Original Message ----- From: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: "Rusty Knorr" <rustyinafrica@yahoo.com> Sent: Friday, October 14, 2022 11:56:35 AM Subject: M_Boats: Re: Main Sail Traveller
Just keep the M15 simple. It works perfectly as designed. All the time you spend trying to improve a virtually perfect boat could be spent enjoying sailing it. You’re not going to go from 5 knots to even 6 with any upgrades on that dinghy, any “improvements” could only result in tenths of a knot at most, and only add unnecessary complication with more things to fail.
Just go sailing!
R.
www.rustyknorr.weebly.com
On Oct 14, 2022, at 10:33 AM, casioqv@usermail.com wrote:
Hi Gary,
I remember many years ago I borrowed and tried your split tail mainsheet on my M15, and just tied the tails to the two aft cleats. It's possible that some more tweaking could have fixed this, but I found that I could not point well to weather in light winds compared to the factory setup, and my sail shape was really weird looking. If I remember correctly, my theory at the time was that it wasn't working because I could only get any headstay tension with the boom perfectly centered, and depending on conditions (especially very light wind) sometimes I wanted more tension with the boom a bit leeward.
The stock M15 rigging can point to windward in very light wind better than almost any boat. A few weeks ago I did the Richmond Yacht Club (RYC) beercan race in very light winds, and found my M15 actually passing high end racing sailboats of all sizes.
I am thinking for an M15, possibly an adjustable cleat for each tail could be useful. Using a continuous loop type system, they could both be adjusted from one side of the cockpit.
Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157
----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary H.Oberbeck" <fairandsquare1@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: "Charles Adams" <chaada@aol.com> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2022 7:03:48 PM Subject: M_Boats: Re: Main Sail Traveller
I no longer sail a M-17 as I downsized to a 15, but I had a mainsheet system that solved all the concerns I had for an ‘open and clear’ cockpit space AND allowed the boom to come above centerline when I required it. Looks too good to be true, but it works. Back in my dinghy racing days, it became fashionable to use a ‘split tail mainsheet. Snipes,C-15’s and other classes have used the split tail for decades. Using the system you are able to move the boom to weather of the centerline as far as a cockpit seat top mounted track without the hardware intruding into that valuable cockpit space. You have less deck penetrations to leak. You will have more money for new sails. You will not have: a track running across your cockpit, banged shins, crew sitting on your traveler, additional control lines, to remember to drop or pull the traveler to the new tack. If you like hardware- ignore the split tail sheet system- if you like simple systems that work, search out ‘split tail mainsheet’ systems. I have tried with limited success to explain the machinations involved, best shown in practice (I have never been a geometry teacher). I no longer own the boat so I cannot make a video. Would you like one less control to attend to, but still have the benefit of a mainsheet traveler? Check it out.
PS- I have not yet tried this setup on a M-15, but it should work. Mainsheet tension is not a function of the sheet in order to work, note most dinghies do not have a backstay to maintain headstay tension. Photos of a ‘clear cockpit’ and a split tail mainsheet on the above mentioned M-17. Have fUn, check out ‘split tail mainsheet’, go sailing! GO
Yep, keep it simple, sail a lot...! And, one doesn't need to be racing to want to improve how our boats work! I at least have little patience with a setup that doesn't work for me, even just day sailing & single-handing mostly, so I tend to change it to work better, sooner or later. Speaking of which, a few pics of latest refinement for my jib sheets coming next... cheers, John On 10/14/22 12:49, casioqv@usermail.com wrote:
Rusty, your statement reminds me of my favorite quote from "Sensible Cruising: The Thoreau Approach" by Don Casey:
"Some of the cruising books devote a page or two to the issue of external halyards versus internal halyards. Which kind does your boat have? Those are the ones for you."
That quote was a huge relief to me and changed everything about sailing. I used to have a feeling that I always needed to upgrade things, change things, or get a different boat. Now I just enjoy sailing and forget about all of that.
That said, if you like racing and like the engineering challenge, it can be really fun to do stuff like this, and can give you enough edge to win. Gary's previous M17 is really impressive, and truly fast with some brilliant modifications.
Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157 S/V Defiant
----- Original Message ----- From: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: "Rusty Knorr" <rustyinafrica@yahoo.com> Sent: Friday, October 14, 2022 11:56:35 AM Subject: M_Boats: Re: Main Sail Traveller
Just keep the M15 simple. It works perfectly as designed. All the time you spend trying to improve a virtually perfect boat could be spent enjoying sailing it. You’re not going to go from 5 knots to even 6 with any upgrades on that dinghy, any “improvements” could only result in tenths of a knot at most, and only add unnecessary complication with more things to fail.
Just go sailing!
R.
www.rustyknorr.weebly.com
On Oct 14, 2022, at 10:33 AM, casioqv@usermail.com wrote:
Hi Gary,
I remember many years ago I borrowed and tried your split tail mainsheet on my M15, and just tied the tails to the two aft cleats. It's possible that some more tweaking could have fixed this, but I found that I could not point well to weather in light winds compared to the factory setup, and my sail shape was really weird looking. If I remember correctly, my theory at the time was that it wasn't working because I could only get any headstay tension with the boom perfectly centered, and depending on conditions (especially very light wind) sometimes I wanted more tension with the boom a bit leeward.
The stock M15 rigging can point to windward in very light wind better than almost any boat. A few weeks ago I did the Richmond Yacht Club (RYC) beercan race in very light winds, and found my M15 actually passing high end racing sailboats of all sizes.
I am thinking for an M15, possibly an adjustable cleat for each tail could be useful. Using a continuous loop type system, they could both be adjusted from one side of the cockpit.
Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157
----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary H.Oberbeck" <fairandsquare1@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: "Charles Adams" <chaada@aol.com> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2022 7:03:48 PM Subject: M_Boats: Re: Main Sail Traveller
I no longer sail a M-17 as I downsized to a 15, but I had a mainsheet system that solved all the concerns I had for an ‘open and clear’ cockpit space AND allowed the boom to come above centerline when I required it. Looks too good to be true, but it works. Back in my dinghy racing days, it became fashionable to use a ‘split tail mainsheet. Snipes,C-15’s and other classes have used the split tail for decades. Using the system you are able to move the boom to weather of the centerline as far as a cockpit seat top mounted track without the hardware intruding into that valuable cockpit space. You have less deck penetrations to leak. You will have more money for new sails. You will not have: a track running across your cockpit, banged shins, crew sitting on your traveler, additional control lines, to remember to drop or pull the traveler to the new tack. If you like hardware- ignore the split tail sheet system- if you like simple systems that work, search out ‘split tail mainsheet’ systems. I have tried with limited success to explain the machinations involved, best shown in practice (I have never been a geometry teacher). I no longer own the boat so I cannot make a video. Would you like one less control to attend to, but still have the benefit of a mainsheet traveler? Check it out.
PS- I have not yet tried this setup on a M-15, but it should work. Mainsheet tension is not a function of the sheet in order to work, note most dinghies do not have a backstay to maintain headstay tension. Photos of a ‘clear cockpit’ and a split tail mainsheet on the above mentioned M-17. Have fUn, check out ‘split tail mainsheet’, go sailing! GO
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
John, I was unhappy with my jib sheet cleats and added fairleads at the camcleat, angled them inward and aft. Now I can cleat and release from anywhere in the cockpit! Replaced deck fairlead (1985) with S.S. bushed fairlead- smooth and easy. Removed original clamcleats and deck is decluttered. A longer tiller is on the list, and a tensioning device for jib halyard- that should do it! Have fUn, go sailing! GO M-15 #330 ‘Cahoots’ On Fri, Oct 14, 2022 at 8:23 PM John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Yep, keep it simple, sail a lot...!
And, one doesn't need to be racing to want to improve how our boats work! I at least have little patience with a setup that doesn't work for me, even just day sailing & single-handing mostly, so I tend to change it to work better, sooner or later.
Speaking of which, a few pics of latest refinement for my jib sheets coming next...
cheers, John
On 10/14/22 12:49, casioqv@usermail.com wrote:
Rusty, your statement reminds me of my favorite quote from "Sensible Cruising: The Thoreau Approach" by Don Casey:
"Some of the cruising books devote a page or two to the issue of external halyards versus internal halyards. Which kind does your boat have? Those are the ones for you."
That quote was a huge relief to me and changed everything about sailing. I used to have a feeling that I always needed to upgrade things, change things, or get a different boat. Now I just enjoy sailing and forget about all of that.
That said, if you like racing and like the engineering challenge, it can be really fun to do stuff like this, and can give you enough edge to win. Gary's previous M17 is really impressive, and truly fast with some brilliant modifications.
Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157 S/V Defiant
----- Original Message ----- From: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: "Rusty Knorr" <rustyinafrica@yahoo.com> Sent: Friday, October 14, 2022 11:56:35 AM Subject: M_Boats: Re: Main Sail Traveller
Just keep the M15 simple. It works perfectly as designed. All the time you spend trying to improve a virtually perfect boat could be spent enjoying sailing it. You’re not going to go from 5 knots to even 6 with any upgrades on that dinghy, any “improvements” could only result in tenths of a knot at most, and only add unnecessary complication with more things to fail.
Just go sailing!
R.
www.rustyknorr.weebly.com
On Oct 14, 2022, at 10:33 AM, casioqv@usermail.com wrote:
Hi Gary,
I remember many years ago I borrowed and tried your split tail mainsheet on my M15, and just tied the tails to the two aft cleats. It's possible that some more tweaking could have fixed this, but I found that I could not point well to weather in light winds compared to the factory setup, and my sail shape was really weird looking. If I remember correctly, my theory at the time was that it wasn't working because I could only get any headstay tension with the boom perfectly centered, and depending on conditions (especially very light wind) sometimes I wanted more tension with the boom a bit leeward.
The stock M15 rigging can point to windward in very light wind better than almost any boat. A few weeks ago I did the Richmond Yacht Club (RYC) beercan race in very light winds, and found my M15 actually passing high end racing sailboats of all sizes.
I am thinking for an M15, possibly an adjustable cleat for each tail could be useful. Using a continuous loop type system, they could both be adjusted from one side of the cockpit.
Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157
----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary H.Oberbeck" <fairandsquare1@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: "Charles Adams" <chaada@aol.com> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2022 7:03:48 PM Subject: M_Boats: Re: Main Sail Traveller
I no longer sail a M-17 as I downsized to a 15, but I had a mainsheet system that solved all the concerns I had for an ‘open and clear’ cockpit space AND allowed the boom to come above centerline when I required it. Looks too good to be true, but it works. Back in my dinghy racing days, it became fashionable to use a ‘split tail mainsheet. Snipes,C-15’s and other classes have used the split tail for decades. Using the system you are able to move the boom to weather of the centerline as far as a cockpit seat top mounted track without the hardware intruding into that valuable cockpit space. You have less deck penetrations to leak. You will have more money for new sails. You will not have: a track running across your cockpit, banged shins, crew sitting on your traveler, additional control lines, to remember to drop or pull the traveler to the new tack. If you like hardware- ignore the split tail sheet system- if you like simple systems that work, search out ‘split tail mainsheet’ systems. I have tried with limited success to explain the machinations involved, best shown in practice (I have never been a geometry teacher). I no longer own the boat so I cannot make a video. Would you like one less control to attend to, but still have the benefit of a mainsheet traveler? Check it out.
PS- I have not yet tried this setup on a M-15, but it should work. Mainsheet tension is not a function of the sheet in order to work, note most dinghies do not have a backstay to maintain headstay tension. Photos of a ‘clear cockpit’ and a split tail mainsheet on the above mentioned M-17. Have fUn, check out ‘split tail mainsheet’, go sailing! GO
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
You mean Raymarine brand tiller pilot? If I just look up 2000 autopilot ...the top hits are for airplanes... :-) Or some other brand? Raymarine has an ST1000 and ST2000 that I have heard are good. I think my friend with the Corsair 31 tri has one. It looks like the pictures of the Raymarine anyhow. https://www.raymarine.com/autopilot/evolution-autopilot/st1000-st2000-tiller... The ST1000 would appear to be more than enough for an M17 (up to 6,600 lbs displacement). cheers, John On 10/13/22 15:48, Charles Adams via montgomery_boats wrote:
It is a top rated AP with a reasonable price and why I bought it. Check it on Amazon. Westmarine also offers it. Check YouTube also. I haven’t used it enough to give a good report but will say it is very simple to use.
Charlie
Sent from my iPad
On Oct 13, 2022, at 3:16 PM, Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Autopilot is definitely a nice addition, maybe something I will add in the future. Has your Autopilot been reliable?
Thanks Charlie
On Thu, Oct 13, 2022 at 6:49 AM Charles Adams via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Not the best picture but I think it will show you what you are looking for. It was there when I bought M17. It was a regatta boat sailed with a crew. I only single hand and found the tiller to long so cut 12” off it. I use a tiller extension with it. As far as I am concerned to single hand an extension is a must.
Some may wonder about the mount. It is for a 2000 AP. Another reason for a shorter tiller.
Hope picture helps.
Charlie Sent from my iPad
On Oct 12, 2022, at 5:28 PM, Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you Sean!
I saw old screw holes almost at my companionway on the cockpit floor thinking the track may have been mounted there but yours looks to be almost mid cockpit. (Maybe there has been more than one designed layout over the years?)
Thanks Again!
On Wed, Oct 12, 2022 at 1:36 PM sailhavasu via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Hi Jason. Mine had the original setup in it when I go it. Here’s a couple of photos.
> On Oct 12, 2022, at 12:46 PM, Jason Leckie <leckie.jas@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi All,
Would someone be able to send me a picture of their main sail traveller system? The previous owner of my boat removed it so that the lower block on my main sheet is attached at fixed point in middle of the cockpit. It works fine but it would be nice to bring it back to the original design of the boat which most of you likely have.
Thank you in advance for your help.
Jason Leckie
Kuma M17 Hull #340 1980
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
participants (10)
-
casioqv＠usermail.com -
Charles Adams -
Dave Scobie -
Gary H.Oberbeck -
Henry Rodriguez -
Jason Leckie -
John Schinnerer -
Lawrence Winiarski -
Rusty Knorr -
sailhavasu