Does anyone have mylar sails? My 170 genoa began to delaminate on the top panel this summer after it took a fairly good gust of wind. The mylar film seperated from the cloth after the film gave way at a seam. The exposed sides are quite sticky. The area is not that large and the rest of the sail looks good. Anyone know if this can be fixed? Someone mentioned the possibility of using an iron with some kind of tape at the seam. Its a nice light air sail (1.9 oz material). Any suggestions? Another rather odd question that borders on my own stupidity for even asking it... After launching my M23 this summer, I noticed the rudder pulled to one side quite hard while under power. Upon closer inspection, I noticed the shape of the rudder below the water line is fairly flat on one side and very concave on the other. I immediately concluded that the mahogany rudder had warped distorting the shape. Upon showing a woodworker friend of mine he said to me: "It looks like it was made that way!" I thought... no way, why would anyone make an unbalanced rudder. I have since looked at it again and it is a straight piece of mahogany above the waterline where it has not been faired. Then it looks like it has been faired into an airplane wing (almost flat on one side, very concave on the other) below the waterline. The boat was set up for racing, but it seems to me that any advantage you might gain from such a shape on one tack, would be totally negated on the other tack. Hence I have had more weather helm on one tack and at times lee helm on the other tack. So my stupid question is: Can anyone think of a valid reason that a rudder might have been built that way on purpose? Or is it just a cleverly disguised warped rudder? To get it symmetrical, I will have to do some serious planing losing inches off the trailing edge that will have to be built back up using epoxy and fiberglass. Even if there is a reason for it... I'm quite certain that it is not for me. Just curious about any thoughts/opinions. Jeff M23 Clarity
will be interesting if jerry comments on this as from his article in the latest SCA covers the importance of good rudder shape. i can't see jerry, who loves fast boats, putting a rudder of poor shape on an Mboat. sean mulligan has photos of repairs to 's rudder. one can see that the shape was uniform on both sides - http://havasumontgomerys.piczo.com/?g=20991177&cr=1 dave scobie M15 #288 - SCRED visit Scred's www-site: http://www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred --- On Wed, 12/3/08, Chris and Jeff Packer <cjpacker@theofficenet.com> wrote: Another rather odd question that borders on my own stupidity for even asking it... After launching my M23 this summer, I noticed the rudder pulled to one side quite hard while under power. Upon closer inspection, I noticed the shape of the rudder below the water line is fairly flat on one side and very concave on the other. I immediately concluded that the mahogany rudder had warped distorting the shape. Upon showing a woodworker friend of mine he said to me: "It looks like it was made that way!" I thought... no way, why would anyone make an unbalanced rudder. I have since looked at it again and it is a straight piece of mahogany above the waterline where it has not been faired. Then it looks like it has been faired into an airplane wing (almost flat on one side, very concave on the other) below the waterline. The boat was set up for racing, but it seems to me that any advantage you might gain from such a shape on one tack, would be totally negated on the other tack. Hence I have had more weather helm on one tack and at times lee helm on the other tack. So my stupid question is: Can anyone think of a valid reason that a rudder might have been built that way on purpose? Or is it just a cleverly disguised warped rudder? To get it symmetrical, I will have to do some serious planing losing inches off the trailing edge that will have to be built back up using epoxy and fiberglass. Even if there is a reason for it... I'm quite certain that it is not for me. Just curious about any thoughts/opinions. Jeff M23 Clarity _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Got to be warpage unless it's an aftermarket rudder made by someone with wierd ideas. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "W David Scobie" <wdscobie@yahoo.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 7:10 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: m23 rudder shape will be interesting if jerry comments on this as from his article in the latest SCA covers the importance of good rudder shape. i can't see jerry, who loves fast boats, putting a rudder of poor shape on an Mboat. sean mulligan has photos of repairs to 's rudder. one can see that the shape was uniform on both sides - http://havasumontgomerys.piczo.com/?g=20991177&cr=1 dave scobie M15 #288 - SCRED visit Scred's www-site: http://www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred --- On Wed, 12/3/08, Chris and Jeff Packer <cjpacker@theofficenet.com> wrote: Another rather odd question that borders on my own stupidity for even asking it... After launching my M23 this summer, I noticed the rudder pulled to one side quite hard while under power. Upon closer inspection, I noticed the shape of the rudder below the water line is fairly flat on one side and very concave on the other. I immediately concluded that the mahogany rudder had warped distorting the shape. Upon showing a woodworker friend of mine he said to me: "It looks like it was made that way!" I thought... no way, why would anyone make an unbalanced rudder. I have since looked at it again and it is a straight piece of mahogany above the waterline where it has not been faired. Then it looks like it has been faired into an airplane wing (almost flat on one side, very concave on the other) below the waterline. The boat was set up for racing, but it seems to me that any advantage you might gain from such a shape on one tack, would be totally negated on the other tack. Hence I have had more weather helm on one tack and at times lee helm on the other tack. So my stupid question is: Can anyone think of a valid reason that a rudder might have been built that way on purpose? Or is it just a cleverly disguised warped rudder? To get it symmetrical, I will have to do some serious planing losing inches off the trailing edge that will have to be built back up using epoxy and fiberglass. Even if there is a reason for it... I'm quite certain that it is not for me. Just curious about any thoughts/opinions. Jeff M23 Clarity _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.9.14/1829 - Release Date: 12/4/2008 2:59 PM
Jeff, On the rudder: Don't know of and can't imagine a situation where an asymmetrical rudder would really give an advantage. I can tell you that once you get your rudder back to being symmetrical, it will straighten your uneven helm problem right out. Had the same thing on our M-15. Rudder was almost flat on one side. Steering was very obviously uneven. Got a new rudder from Bob .... what a difference. Rik Will Rogers often said, "There's nothing quite like money in the bank." He went on to say, "I'm not so concerned about the return on my money as I am about the return of my money." Chris and Jeff Packer wrote:
Does anyone have mylar sails? My 170 genoa began to delaminate on the top panel this summer after it took a fairly good gust of wind. The mylar film seperated from the cloth after the film gave way at a seam. The exposed sides are quite sticky. The area is not that large and the rest of the sail looks good. Anyone know if this can be fixed? Someone mentioned the possibility of using an iron with some kind of tape at the seam. Its a nice light air sail (1.9 oz material). Any suggestions?
Another rather odd question that borders on my own stupidity for even asking it... After launching my M23 this summer, I noticed the rudder pulled to one side quite hard while under power. Upon closer inspection, I noticed the shape of the rudder below the water line is fairly flat on one side and very concave on the other. I immediately concluded that the mahogany rudder had warped distorting the shape. Upon showing a woodworker friend of mine he said to me: "It looks like it was made that way!" I thought... no way, why would anyone make an unbalanced rudder. I have since looked at it again and it is a straight piece of mahogany above the waterline where it has not been faired. Then it looks like it has been faired into an airplane wing (almost flat on one side, very concave on the other) below the waterline. The boat was set up for racing, but it seems to me that any advantage you might gain from such a shape on one tack, would be totally negated on the other tack. Hence I have had more weather helm on one tack and at times lee helm on the other tack. So my stupid question is: Can anyone think of a valid reason that a rudder might have been built that way on purpose? Or is it just a cleverly disguised warped rudder? To get it symmetrical, I will have to do some serious planing losing inches off the trailing edge that will have to be built back up using epoxy and fiberglass. Even if there is a reason for it... I'm quite certain that it is not for me. Just curious about any thoughts/opinions.
Jeff M23 Clarity _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Yes Rick, I want a symmetrical rudder and even helm. It felt strange even asking about it. But it is uncanny how it looks made like that. One thought I had was the previous owner may have sanded and varnished the rudder that way removing any evidence of it warping on its own. I had to ask. Hope to meet many of you on the San Juan cruise in June Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rik Sandberg" <sanderico1@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 7:47 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: mylar sails
Jeff,
On the rudder: Don't know of and can't imagine a situation where an asymmetrical rudder would really give an advantage. I can tell you that once you get your rudder back to being symmetrical, it will straighten your uneven helm problem right out. Had the same thing on our M-15. Rudder was almost flat on one side. Steering was very obviously uneven. Got a new rudder from Bob .... what a difference.
Rik
Will Rogers often said, "There's nothing quite like money in the bank." He went on to say, "I'm not so concerned about the return on my money as I am about the return of my money."
Chris and Jeff Packer wrote:
Does anyone have mylar sails? My 170 genoa began to delaminate on the top panel this summer after it took a fairly good gust of wind. The mylar film seperated from the cloth after the film gave way at a seam. The exposed sides are quite sticky. The area is not that large and the rest of the sail looks good. Anyone know if this can be fixed? Someone mentioned the possibility of using an iron with some kind of tape at the seam. Its a nice light air sail (1.9 oz material). Any suggestions?
Another rather odd question that borders on my own stupidity for even asking it... After launching my M23 this summer, I noticed the rudder pulled to one side quite hard while under power. Upon closer inspection, I noticed the shape of the rudder below the water line is fairly flat on one side and very concave on the other. I immediately concluded that the mahogany rudder had warped distorting the shape. Upon showing a woodworker friend of mine he said to me: "It looks like it was made that way!" I thought... no way, why would anyone make an unbalanced rudder. I have since looked at it again and it is a straight piece of mahogany above the waterline where it has not been faired. Then it looks like it has been faired into an airplane wing (almost flat on one side, very concave on the other) below the waterline. The boat was set up for racing, but it seems to me that any advantage you might gain from such a shape on one tack, would be totally negated on the other tack. Hence I have had more weather helm on one tack and at times lee helm on the other tack. So my stupid question is: Can anyone think of a valid reason that a rudder might have been built that way on purpose? Or is it just a cleverly disguised warped rudder? To get it symmetrical, I will have to do some serious planing losing inches off the trailing edge that will have to be built back up using epoxy and fiberglass. Even if there is a reason for it... I'm quite certain that it is not for me. Just curious about any thoughts/opinions.
Jeff M23 Clarity _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
participants (4)
-
Chris and Jeff Packer -
jerry -
Rik Sandberg -
W David Scobie