Hello all,, It's been too quiet. So I thought I'd stir the pot. Let's hear how you raise your mast. Currently I have a single block I attach to the bow, I run a line from furler through the block then back to me via the winch. I heave ho, and take up the slack and cleat it off while I attach the furler. A bit precarious, but works ok. I'm considering a double block for some purchase. Jazz
A few photos would be the best solution, but I'm in Minnesota and the boat is in a barn for the winter. I'll do my best to describe my setup. First, I devised my system to work either on the trailer or on the water. I fasten one end of the whisker pole to a spinnaker pole ring at the bottom of the mast. I use the main sheet, blocks and all, with the bottom end attached where the jib tack normally attaches, to provide the mechanical advantage. The other end of the main sheet attaches to the outer end of the whisker pole, along with the jib halyard leading from the masthead (I don't have a furler). I run lines from the outer end of the whisker pole to holes in the toe rails to provide side-to-side support to keep the whisker pole centered. I would have to wait until spring to report the exact position of the attachment to the toe rails, but it is a foot or so aft of the base of the mast. The position must be such as to maintain reasonably constant tension throughout the raising process. I pull on the main sheet to raise the mast. I've rounded off the aft portion of the bottom of the mast so that it rolls easily as the mast rises from horizontal to vertical. Depending on the length of your main sheet, it may be necessary at the end to crank down on the jib halyard to get the mast all the way to vertical. I need to apply enough tension at the end to enable me to connect the forestay. I leave the backstay alone to preserve the fore-and-aft position of the mast. I would be happy to take pictures in May, but this is the best can do at the moment. Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jazzy Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2016 1:53 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: M_Boats: Mast raising... Hello all,, It's been too quiet. So I thought I'd stir the pot. Let's hear how you raise your mast. Currently I have a single block I attach to the bow, I run a line from furler through the block then back to me via the winch. I heave ho, and take up the slack and cleat it off while I attach the furler. A bit precarious, but works ok. I'm considering a double block for some purchase. Jazz
Only raised and lowered once so far since I got Pajarita. It came with the mast oriented to raise from bow, not stern, so I went with that, and like it actually. I just need to get something on the bow pulpit to keep mast from slipping sideways when sliding it fore and aft. I had a friend to help me both up and down, so basically we just put a line on the backstay, he was at the stern raising (or lowering) on that, I was at the bow lifting (or lowering) and steadying. Once up, he held snug while I secured backstay to ring connecting split backstay pieces. Will be testing out solo options in a month or two. Plan A is similar but the line from backstay will run through a block at the stern and back up to me at the bow. There's just the small critical piece at the very start of raising or end of lowering where the angle of the line is too flat to be of much use and it needs to be manually lifted or lowered. I find the M17 mast light enough for me to handle that way. That critical bit for solo raise/lower can be avoided with a gin pole or an A-frame, I've done that on other boats. All the setup and takedown of that, for both raising and lowering, ugh - if I can avoid all that hassle and extra gear and time I gladly will. And, it's gotta feel safe! I'll deal with the hassle of more rigging if it's a matter of safety. For the M17 mast I found it felt safe to lift & lower that first/last bit myself - YMMV! cheers, John S. On 02/14/2016 11:52 AM, Jazzy wrote:
Hello all,, It's been too quiet. So I thought I'd stir the pot. Let's hear how you raise your mast. Currently I have a single block I attach to the bow, I run a line from furler through the block then back to me via the winch. I heave ho, and take up the slack and cleat it off while I attach the furler. A bit precarious, but works ok. I'm considering a double block for some purchase.
Jazz
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
I found that by adding about 8 inches, in my case, to the height of the mast crutch, I avoided that "dead" zone when the line is essentially pulling straight back down the mast. That added height also prevented the mast from crunching my main hatch since by raising the mast from the top with its cables there is a LOT of downward pressure on the mast. That downward pressure prevents the mast with its thru bolt from sliding up the slot where the thru bolt attaches the mast to the tabernacle so all the weight of the mast levers down onto the main hatch and bends it downward. Not good. So with the added crutch height the weight of the mast never comes into contact with any part of the main hatch. This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 3:06 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Only raised and lowered once so far since I got Pajarita. It came with the mast oriented to raise from bow, not stern, so I went with that, and like it actually. I just need to get something on the bow pulpit to keep mast from slipping sideways when sliding it fore and aft.
I had a friend to help me both up and down, so basically we just put a line on the backstay, he was at the stern raising (or lowering) on that, I was at the bow lifting (or lowering) and steadying. Once up, he held snug while I secured backstay to ring connecting split backstay pieces.
Will be testing out solo options in a month or two. Plan A is similar but the line from backstay will run through a block at the stern and back up to me at the bow. There's just the small critical piece at the very start of raising or end of lowering where the angle of the line is too flat to be of much use and it needs to be manually lifted or lowered. I find the M17 mast light enough for me to handle that way.
That critical bit for solo raise/lower can be avoided with a gin pole or an A-frame, I've done that on other boats. All the setup and takedown of that, for both raising and lowering, ugh - if I can avoid all that hassle and extra gear and time I gladly will. And, it's gotta feel safe! I'll deal with the hassle of more rigging if it's a matter of safety. For the M17 mast I found it felt safe to lift & lower that first/last bit myself - YMMV!
cheers, John S.
On 02/14/2016 11:52 AM, Jazzy wrote:
Hello all,, It's been too quiet. So I thought I'd stir the pot. Let's hear how you raise your mast. Currently I have a single block I attach to the bow, I run a line from furler through the block then back to me via the winch. I heave ho, and take up the slack and cleat it off while I attach the furler. A bit precarious, but works ok. I'm considering a double block for some purchase.
Jazz
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
I should have added that that problem I spoke of only happens when lowering the mast. oops. On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 6:40 PM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
I found that by adding about 8 inches, in my case, to the height of the mast crutch, I avoided that "dead" zone when the line is essentially pulling straight back down the mast. That added height also prevented the mast from crunching my main hatch since by raising the mast from the top with its cables there is a LOT of downward pressure on the mast. That downward pressure prevents the mast with its thru bolt from sliding up the slot where the thru bolt attaches the mast to the tabernacle so all the weight of the mast levers down onto the main hatch and bends it downward. Not good. So with the added crutch height the weight of the mast never comes into contact with any part of the main hatch.
This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#-2146619256_DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 3:06 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Only raised and lowered once so far since I got Pajarita. It came with the mast oriented to raise from bow, not stern, so I went with that, and like it actually. I just need to get something on the bow pulpit to keep mast from slipping sideways when sliding it fore and aft.
I had a friend to help me both up and down, so basically we just put a line on the backstay, he was at the stern raising (or lowering) on that, I was at the bow lifting (or lowering) and steadying. Once up, he held snug while I secured backstay to ring connecting split backstay pieces.
Will be testing out solo options in a month or two. Plan A is similar but the line from backstay will run through a block at the stern and back up to me at the bow. There's just the small critical piece at the very start of raising or end of lowering where the angle of the line is too flat to be of much use and it needs to be manually lifted or lowered. I find the M17 mast light enough for me to handle that way.
That critical bit for solo raise/lower can be avoided with a gin pole or an A-frame, I've done that on other boats. All the setup and takedown of that, for both raising and lowering, ugh - if I can avoid all that hassle and extra gear and time I gladly will. And, it's gotta feel safe! I'll deal with the hassle of more rigging if it's a matter of safety. For the M17 mast I found it felt safe to lift & lower that first/last bit myself - YMMV!
cheers, John S.
On 02/14/2016 11:52 AM, Jazzy wrote:
Hello all,, It's been too quiet. So I thought I'd stir the pot. Let's hear how you raise your mast. Currently I have a single block I attach to the bow, I run a line from furler through the block then back to me via the winch. I heave ho, and take up the slack and cleat it off while I attach the furler. A bit precarious, but works ok. I'm considering a double block for some purchase.
Jazz
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
On my M17 I a added an extension to my crutch which I attach for stepping the mast and leave off when towing. My extension is almost 5 feet. I made it as high as I could while still being able to put the mast on and off. The height does two things. First it gives me the angle to raise it directly from the crutch without additional lifting. But what I feel is more important is that the height gives enough length so the spreaders do not have to cross over the roller. I would like to shorten my extension so it's more stable but I'm not sure exactly how high it needs to be to clear the spreaders. Thanks Ron McNeil Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 14, 2016, at 5:41 PM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
I should have added that that problem I spoke of only happens when lowering the mast. oops.
On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 6:40 PM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
I found that by adding about 8 inches, in my case, to the height of the mast crutch, I avoided that "dead" zone when the line is essentially pulling straight back down the mast. That added height also prevented the mast from crunching my main hatch since by raising the mast from the top with its cables there is a LOT of downward pressure on the mast. That downward pressure prevents the mast with its thru bolt from sliding up the slot where the thru bolt attaches the mast to the tabernacle so all the weight of the mast levers down onto the main hatch and bends it downward. Not good. So with the added crutch height the weight of the mast never comes into contact with any part of the main hatch.
This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#-2146619256_DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 3:06 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Only raised and lowered once so far since I got Pajarita. It came with the mast oriented to raise from bow, not stern, so I went with that, and like it actually. I just need to get something on the bow pulpit to keep mast from slipping sideways when sliding it fore and aft.
I had a friend to help me both up and down, so basically we just put a line on the backstay, he was at the stern raising (or lowering) on that, I was at the bow lifting (or lowering) and steadying. Once up, he held snug while I secured backstay to ring connecting split backstay pieces.
Will be testing out solo options in a month or two. Plan A is similar but the line from backstay will run through a block at the stern and back up to me at the bow. There's just the small critical piece at the very start of raising or end of lowering where the angle of the line is too flat to be of much use and it needs to be manually lifted or lowered. I find the M17 mast light enough for me to handle that way.
That critical bit for solo raise/lower can be avoided with a gin pole or an A-frame, I've done that on other boats. All the setup and takedown of that, for both raising and lowering, ugh - if I can avoid all that hassle and extra gear and time I gladly will. And, it's gotta feel safe! I'll deal with the hassle of more rigging if it's a matter of safety. For the M17 mast I found it felt safe to lift & lower that first/last bit myself - YMMV!
cheers, John S.
On 02/14/2016 11:52 AM, Jazzy wrote:
Hello all,, It's been too quiet. So I thought I'd stir the pot. Let's hear how you raise your mast. Currently I have a single block I attach to the bow, I run a line from furler through the block then back to me via the winch. I heave ho, and take up the slack and cleat it off while I attach the furler. A bit precarious, but works ok. I'm considering a double block for some purchase.
Jazz -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Ron, On my 17 I added a 2x6 to the leading face of my 2x4 mast crutch. That kicked it back 5 1/2 inches so the spreaders have ample clearnace in front of the crutch so never have to ride over the roller I added to the upper end of the crutch. Also addint 8 inches to the height of the crutch helped with raising and lowering it. Fair winds, Tom B send me you email and I can send you a pic of the crutch I ended up with. This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 10:10 AM, Ron McNeil via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
On my M17 I a added an extension to my crutch which I attach for stepping the mast and leave off when towing. My extension is almost 5 feet. I made it as high as I could while still being able to put the mast on and off. The height does two things. First it gives me the angle to raise it directly from the crutch without additional lifting. But what I feel is more important is that the height gives enough length so the spreaders do not have to cross over the roller. I would like to shorten my extension so it's more stable but I'm not sure exactly how high it needs to be to clear the spreaders.
Thanks Ron McNeil
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 14, 2016, at 5:41 PM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
I should have added that that problem I spoke of only happens when lowering the mast. oops.
On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 6:40 PM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
I found that by adding about 8 inches, in my case, to the height of the mast crutch, I avoided that "dead" zone when the line is essentially pulling straight back down the mast. That added height also prevented the mast from crunching my main hatch since by raising the mast from the top with its cables there is a LOT of downward pressure on the mast. That downward pressure prevents the mast with its thru bolt from sliding up the slot where the thru bolt attaches the mast to the tabernacle so all the weight of the mast levers down onto the main hatch and bends it downward. Not good. So with the added crutch height the weight of the mast never comes into contact with any part of the main hatch.
This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#-2146619256_DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 3:06 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Only raised and lowered once so far since I got Pajarita. It came with the mast oriented to raise from bow, not stern, so I went with that, and like it actually. I just need to get something on the bow pulpit to keep mast from slipping sideways when sliding it fore and aft.
I had a friend to help me both up and down, so basically we just put a line on the backstay, he was at the stern raising (or lowering) on that, I was at the bow lifting (or lowering) and steadying. Once up, he held snug while I secured backstay to ring connecting split backstay pieces.
Will be testing out solo options in a month or two. Plan A is similar but the line from backstay will run through a block at the stern and back up to me at the bow. There's just the small critical piece at the very start of raising or end of lowering where the angle of the line is too flat to be of much use and it needs to be manually lifted or lowered. I find the M17 mast light enough for me to handle that way.
That critical bit for solo raise/lower can be avoided with a gin pole or an A-frame, I've done that on other boats. All the setup and takedown of that, for both raising and lowering, ugh - if I can avoid all that hassle and extra gear and time I gladly will. And, it's gotta feel safe! I'll deal with the hassle of more rigging if it's a matter of safety. For the M17 mast I found it felt safe to lift & lower that first/last bit myself - YMMV!
cheers, John S.
On 02/14/2016 11:52 AM, Jazzy wrote:
Hello all,, It's been too quiet. So I thought I'd stir the pot. Let's hear how you raise your mast. Currently I have a single block I attach to the bow, I run a line from furler through the block then back to me via the winch. I heave ho, and take up the slack and cleat it off while I attach the furler. A bit precarious, but works ok. I'm considering a double block for some purchase.
Jazz -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
I see absolutely no reason why the spreaders couldn't be lowered a few inches- enough to eliminate the problem. -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Buzzi Sent: Monday, February 15, 2016 8:36 AM To: Ron McNeil ; For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Mast raising... Ron, On my 17 I added a 2x6 to the leading face of my 2x4 mast crutch. That kicked it back 5 1/2 inches so the spreaders have ample clearnace in front of the crutch so never have to ride over the roller I added to the upper end of the crutch. Also addint 8 inches to the height of the crutch helped with raising and lowering it. Fair winds, Tom B send me you email and I can send you a pic of the crutch I ended up with. This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 10:10 AM, Ron McNeil via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
On my M17 I a added an extension to my crutch which I attach for stepping the mast and leave off when towing. My extension is almost 5 feet. I made it as high as I could while still being able to put the mast on and off. The height does two things. First it gives me the angle to raise it directly from the crutch without additional lifting. But what I feel is more important is that the height gives enough length so the spreaders do not have to cross over the roller. I would like to shorten my extension so it's more stable but I'm not sure exactly how high it needs to be to clear the spreaders.
Thanks Ron McNeil
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 14, 2016, at 5:41 PM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
I should have added that that problem I spoke of only happens when lowering the mast. oops.
On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 6:40 PM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
I found that by adding about 8 inches, in my case, to the height of the mast crutch, I avoided that "dead" zone when the line is essentially pulling straight back down the mast. That added height also prevented the mast from crunching my main hatch since by raising the mast from the top with its cables there is a LOT of downward pressure on the mast. That downward pressure prevents the mast with its thru bolt from sliding up the slot where the thru bolt attaches the mast to the tabernacle so all the weight of the mast levers down onto the main hatch and bends it downward. Not good. So with the added crutch height the weight of the mast never comes into contact with any part of the main hatch.
This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#-2146619256_DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 3:06 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Only raised and lowered once so far since I got Pajarita. It came with the mast oriented to raise from bow, not stern, so I went with that, and like it actually. I just need to get something on the bow pulpit to keep mast from slipping sideways when sliding it fore and aft.
I had a friend to help me both up and down, so basically we just put a line on the backstay, he was at the stern raising (or lowering) on that, I was at the bow lifting (or lowering) and steadying. Once up, he held snug while I secured backstay to ring connecting split backstay pieces.
Will be testing out solo options in a month or two. Plan A is similar but the line from backstay will run through a block at the stern and back up to me at the bow. There's just the small critical piece at the very start of raising or end of lowering where the angle of the line is too flat to be of much use and it needs to be manually lifted or lowered. I find the M17 mast light enough for me to handle that way.
That critical bit for solo raise/lower can be avoided with a gin pole or an A-frame, I've done that on other boats. All the setup and takedown of that, for both raising and lowering, ugh - if I can avoid all that hassle and extra gear and time I gladly will. And, it's gotta feel safe! I'll deal with the hassle of more rigging if it's a matter of safety. For the M17 mast I found it felt safe to lift & lower that first/last bit myself - YMMV!
cheers, John S.
On 02/14/2016 11:52 AM, Jazzy wrote:
Hello all,, It's been too quiet. So I thought I'd stir the pot. Let's hear how you raise your mast. Currently I have a single block I attach to the bow, I run a line from furler through the block then back to me via the winch. I heave ho, and take up the slack and cleat it off while I attach the furler. A bit precarious, but works ok. I'm considering a double block for some purchase.
Jazz -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
I made a gin pole, about 5' 7" long which had a ss fork which straddles the mast at the tabernacle and forks over the thru bolt which holds the mast in the tabernacle. Then I have two guy lines leading from the top of the gynpole to the chain plates port and starboard on the cabin which hold the gin pole straight while I hook the fore stay shackle to the hook at the end of my trailer winch cable. then it is just a matter of cranking the mast up or down. No strain, easy to set up and take down. This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 1:52 PM, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello all,, It's been too quiet. So I thought I'd stir the pot. Let's hear how you raise your mast. Currently I have a single block I attach to the bow, I run a line from furler through the block then back to me via the winch. I heave ho, and take up the slack and cleat it off while I attach the furler. A bit precarious, but works ok. I'm considering a double block for some purchase.
Jazz
participants (6)
-
Jazzy -
jerry＠jerrymontgomery.org -
John Schinnerer -
Rich Makela -
Ron McNeil -
Thomas Buzzi