Jeff, Who needs two nice paved ramps with docks?? I DO ! ! Adjacent parking at the North Ramp, Restrooms at the top of the ramps - (sounds like I am trying to 'sell' the place!) Go check them both out and see the facilities for yourself - different strokes. Welcome to the Lake! GO the ugli 1/2 yeller 1/2 white M-17 at PH. 'looks bad...goes fine.' Arizona Sailing Squadron, Widnyfe YC