Re: M_Boats: New Member
Roger, Welcome to the group. You'll love your M17, especially in the great cruising grounds where you live. There is a good group of us the cruise the San Juan and Gulf Islands every couple of years. Next trip will probably be in 2013. Watch this e-mail list for information if you want to join us. Regarding outboards, the problem with a large motor is in putting too much weight on the stern. Montgomerys like to have the weight forward, keeping the transom out of the water. You'll sail faster with less drag. Most 17 sailors use a 4 or 5 hp motor, and none in our group have had any issues with having enough power for the same waters you plan on sailing. My boat is a 1976 model and has the cutout like yours. I like having the motor there in the cutout. It's a nice solid mount, with no lowering bracket to hassle with, and the weight is further forward. True, only about a foot, but it's a noticeable difference. I tried moving mine to an adjustable mount once and didn't like it at all. The boat just didn't feel right, and leaning over the transom to operate that bracket was a pain. When you mount your motor in the cutout, you have to be aware of the clearance between it and your rudder. Scoot the motor as far to the side as possible. Some motors (like the Yamaha 4hp 4 stroke) have the control arm mounted off to the side which limits how far you can go. For that reason, I use a Suzuki 4 stroke. The control arm is more in front of the motor allowing me to mount the motor near the port side of the cutout, giving better clearance. The Suzuki 4hp and 6hp weigh the same, so I opted for the 6 which is set up for both internal and external tanks. Very nice when cruising. You can also have a charging coil added to charge you house battery while motoring. And yes, you'll want the 20" long shaft motor. Extra long is not really needed. Larry M17 CornDog
Dear Larry. Very many thanks for all this advice . The Suzuki 6 HP sounds good . Many thanks for the comments on the extra long shaft. Whilst I have a solar panel clearly the charging facility on the 6 HP is very valuable. I will be interested in the San Juan and Gulf Island cruise and will keep my eyes open for information on this. I am sorry to be a pain but have you any photographs of the stern of your boat with the Suzuki 6 in place? Thanks again for your kind help. I very much appreciate your time. Best wishes Roger On 28-Jan-12, at 10:29 AM, Larry E Yake wrote:
Roger,
Welcome to the group. You'll love your M17, especially in the great cruising grounds where you live. There is a good group of us the cruise the San Juan and Gulf Islands every couple of years. Next trip will probably be in 2013. Watch this e-mail list for information if you want to join us.
Regarding outboards, the problem with a large motor is in putting too much weight on the stern. Montgomerys like to have the weight forward, keeping the transom out of the water. You'll sail faster with less drag. Most 17 sailors use a 4 or 5 hp motor, and none in our group have had any issues with having enough power for the same waters you plan on sailing. My boat is a 1976 model and has the cutout like yours. I like having the motor there in the cutout. It's a nice solid mount, with no lowering bracket to hassle with, and the weight is further forward. True, only about a foot, but it's a noticeable difference. I tried moving mine to an adjustable mount once and didn't like it at all. The boat just didn't feel right, and leaning over the transom to operate that bracket was a pain. When you mount your motor in the cutout, you have to be aware of the clearance between it and your rudder. Scoot the motor as far to the side as possible. Some motors (like the Yamaha 4hp 4 stroke) have the control arm mounted off to the side which limits how far you can go. For that reason, I use a Suzuki 4 stroke. The control arm is more in front of the motor allowing me to mount the motor near the port side of the cutout, giving better clearance. The Suzuki 4hp and 6hp weigh the same, so I opted for the 6 which is set up for both internal and external tanks. Very nice when cruising. You can also have a charging coil added to charge you house battery while motoring. And yes, you'll want the 20" long shaft motor. Extra long is not really needed.
Larry M17 CornDog
Jeanette, Do you know your hull number? I sold my 1979 M17 a few years ago to someone who lived in your direction. As I recall the hull number of my boat was 306. If it's my old boat I would be able to let you know what was done to the boat during the 10 years I owned it. Ken M15 128 -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jeanette Matcham Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 10:52 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: New Member Dear Larry. Very many thanks for all this advice . The Suzuki 6 HP sounds good . Many thanks for the comments on the extra long shaft. Whilst I have a solar panel clearly the charging facility on the 6 HP is very valuable. I will be interested in the San Juan and Gulf Island cruise and will keep my eyes open for information on this. I am sorry to be a pain but have you any photographs of the stern of your boat with the Suzuki 6 in place? Thanks again for your kind help. I very much appreciate your time. Best wishes Roger On 28-Jan-12, at 10:29 AM, Larry E Yake wrote:
Roger,
Welcome to the group. You'll love your M17, especially in the great cruising grounds where you live. There is a good group of us the cruise the San Juan and Gulf Islands every couple of years. Next trip will probably be in 2013. Watch this e-mail list for information if you want to join us.
Regarding outboards, the problem with a large motor is in putting too much weight on the stern. Montgomerys like to have the weight forward, keeping the transom out of the water. You'll sail faster with less drag. Most 17 sailors use a 4 or 5 hp motor, and none in our group have had any issues with having enough power for the same waters you plan on sailing. My boat is a 1976 model and has the cutout like yours. I like having the motor there in the cutout. It's a nice solid mount, with no lowering bracket to hassle with, and the weight is further forward. True, only about a foot, but it's a noticeable difference. I tried moving mine to an adjustable mount once and didn't like it at all. The boat just didn't feel right, and leaning over the transom to operate that bracket was a pain. When you mount your motor in the cutout, you have to be aware of the clearance between it and your rudder. Scoot the motor as far to the side as possible. Some motors (like the Yamaha 4hp 4 stroke) have the control arm mounted off to the side which limits how far you can go. For that reason, I use a Suzuki 4 stroke. The control arm is more in front of the motor allowing me to mount the motor near the port side of the cutout, giving better clearance. The Suzuki 4hp and 6hp weigh the same, so I opted for the 6 which is set up for both internal and external tanks. Very nice when cruising. You can also have a charging coil added to charge you house battery while motoring. And yes, you'll want the 20" long shaft motor. Extra long is not really needed.
Larry M17 CornDog
Hi Ken. Thanks for the email. The M17 was built in 1979 . The Hull number is 312 - So very close to the boat which you owned. Thanks again for the email. I hope we will be in touch again. Best wishes Roger PS I am using my wife's email address . On 28-Jan-12, at 11:29 AM, Ken Wheeler wrote:
Jeanette, Do you know your hull number? I sold my 1979 M17 a few years ago to someone who lived in your direction. As I recall the hull number of my boat was 306. If it's my old boat I would be able to let you know what was done to the boat during the 10 years I owned it. Ken M15 128
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jeanette Matcham Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 10:52 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: New Member
Dear Larry.
Very many thanks for all this advice .
The Suzuki 6 HP sounds good . Many thanks for the comments on the extra long shaft.
Whilst I have a solar panel clearly the charging facility on the 6 HP is very valuable.
I will be interested in the San Juan and Gulf Island cruise and will keep my eyes open for information on this.
I am sorry to be a pain but have you any photographs of the stern of your boat with the Suzuki 6 in place?
Thanks again for your kind help. I very much appreciate your time.
Best wishes
Roger On 28-Jan-12, at 10:29 AM, Larry E Yake wrote:
Roger,
Welcome to the group. You'll love your M17, especially in the great cruising grounds where you live. There is a good group of us the cruise the San Juan and Gulf Islands every couple of years. Next trip will probably be in 2013. Watch this e-mail list for information if you want to join us.
Regarding outboards, the problem with a large motor is in putting too much weight on the stern. Montgomerys like to have the weight forward, keeping the transom out of the water. You'll sail faster with less drag. Most 17 sailors use a 4 or 5 hp motor, and none in our group have had any issues with having enough power for the same waters you plan on sailing. My boat is a 1976 model and has the cutout like yours. I like having the motor there in the cutout. It's a nice solid mount, with no lowering bracket to hassle with, and the weight is further forward. True, only about a foot, but it's a noticeable difference. I tried moving mine to an adjustable mount once and didn't like it at all. The boat just didn't feel right, and leaning over the transom to operate that bracket was a pain. When you mount your motor in the cutout, you have to be aware of the clearance between it and your rudder. Scoot the motor as far to the side as possible. Some motors (like the Yamaha 4hp 4 stroke) have the control arm mounted off to the side which limits how far you can go. For that reason, I use a Suzuki 4 stroke. The control arm is more in front of the motor allowing me to mount the motor near the port side of the cutout, giving better clearance. The Suzuki 4hp and 6hp weigh the same, so I opted for the 6 which is set up for both internal and external tanks. Very nice when cruising. You can also have a charging coil added to charge you house battery while motoring. And yes, you'll want the 20" long shaft motor. Extra long is not really needed.
Larry M17 CornDog
roger: i'm with the opinion of others that have stated a 4-5 outboard are just fine for the M17. i have the 4HP suzuki on my M17 (SWEET PEA, #375, built in '83). larry has had better experience with his outboard than i, but i've never been stranded by the motor (just REALLY frustrated). i have never needed to 'full throttle' the 4HP motor. i usually motor along at just over 1/2 throttle at 4.8 knots. the 6HP and 4HP, as larry states, have the same power head and weight. just a different carb. for more HP. the 6HP comes with an external fuel tank option, and the alternator (not available for the 4HP suzuki). 6HP is more than you need on the M17 ... even in the gulf and san juan islands. i'm born and raised from the seattle area and have cruised the san juan and gulf islands since the late 1970s. use the cutout on the transom, don't IMO, consider using a motor mount. larry sails the fastest M17 i've ever seen. i have never seen him dragging the prop when the motor is in the tilted position (larry can better comment if it can happen ... again, i've never seen it in the times i've been behind larry looking at his transom). :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage Marine --- On Sat, 1/28/12, Jeanette Matcham <jeanmatcham@shaw.ca> wrote:
Dear Larry.
Very many thanks for all this advice .
The Suzuki 6 HP sounds good . Many thanks for the comments on the extra long shaft.
Whilst I have a solar panel clearly the charging facility on the 6 HP is very valuable.
I will be interested in the San Juan and Gulf Island cruise and will keep my eyes open for information on this.
I am sorry to be a pain but have you any photographs of the stern of your boat with the Suzuki 6 in place?
Thanks again for your kind help. I very much appreciate your time.
Best wishes
Roger On 28-Jan-12, at 10:29 AM, Larry E Yake wrote:
Roger,
Welcome to the group. You'll love your M17, especially in the great cruising grounds where you live. There is a good group of us the cruise the San Juan and Gulf Islands every couple of years. Next trip will probably be in 2013. Watch this e-mail list for information if you want to join us.
Regarding outboards, the problem with a large motor is in putting too much weight on the stern. Montgomerys like to have the weight forward, keeping the transom out of the water. You'll sail faster with less drag. Most 17 sailors use a 4 or 5 hp motor, and none in our group have had any issues with having enough power for the same waters you plan on sailing. My boat is a 1976 model and has the cutout like yours. I like having the motor there in the cutout. It's a nice solid mount, with no lowering bracket to hassle with, and the weight is further forward. True, only about a foot, but it's a noticeable difference. I tried moving mine to an adjustable mount once and didn't like it at all. The boat just didn't feel right, and leaning over the transom to operate that bracket was a pain. When you mount your motor in the cutout, you have to be aware of the clearance between it and your rudder. Scoot the motor as far to the side as possible. Some motors (like the Yamaha 4hp 4 stroke) have the control arm mounted off to the side which limits how far you can go. For that reason, I use a Suzuki 4 stroke. The control arm is more in front of the motor allowing me to mount the motor near the port side of the cutout, giving better clearance. The Suzuki 4hp and 6hp weigh the same, so I opted for the 6 which is set up for both internal and external tanks. Very nice when cruising. You can also have a charging coil added to charge you house battery while motoring. And yes, you'll want the 20" long shaft motor. Extra long is not really needed.
Larry M17 CornDog
Dear David. Many thanks for your email and for the useful information. I am from the UK and so not so used to the USA and Canadian terms and colloquialisms. However I am getting there. Don't "IMO"? What is the key frustration with your 4HP Suzuki? Thanks again for writing . I must say that I have had a very good welcome and response from the group. Many thanks Roger On 28-Jan-12, at 11:35 AM, W David Scobie wrote:
roger:
i'm with the opinion of others that have stated a 4-5 outboard are just fine for the M17. i have the 4HP suzuki on my M17 (SWEET PEA, #375, built in '83). larry has had better experience with his outboard than i, but i've never been stranded by the motor (just REALLY frustrated). i have never needed to 'full throttle' the 4HP motor. i usually motor along at just over 1/2 throttle at 4.8 knots.
the 6HP and 4HP, as larry states, have the same power head and weight. just a different carb. for more HP. the 6HP comes with an external fuel tank option, and the alternator (not available for the 4HP suzuki).
6HP is more than you need on the M17 ... even in the gulf and san juan islands. i'm born and raised from the seattle area and have cruised the san juan and gulf islands since the late 1970s.
use the cutout on the transom, don't IMO, consider using a motor mount. larry sails the fastest M17 i've ever seen. i have never seen him dragging the prop when the motor is in the tilted position (larry can better comment if it can happen ... again, i've never seen it in the times i've been behind larry looking at his transom).
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage Marine
--- On Sat, 1/28/12, Jeanette Matcham <jeanmatcham@shaw.ca> wrote:
Dear Larry.
Very many thanks for all this advice .
The Suzuki 6 HP sounds good . Many thanks for the comments on the extra long shaft.
Whilst I have a solar panel clearly the charging facility on the 6 HP is very valuable.
I will be interested in the San Juan and Gulf Island cruise and will keep my eyes open for information on this.
I am sorry to be a pain but have you any photographs of the stern of your boat with the Suzuki 6 in place?
Thanks again for your kind help. I very much appreciate your time.
Best wishes
Roger On 28-Jan-12, at 10:29 AM, Larry E Yake wrote:
Roger,
Welcome to the group. You'll love your M17, especially in the great cruising grounds where you live. There is a good group of us the cruise the San Juan and Gulf Islands every couple of years. Next trip will probably be in 2013. Watch this e-mail list for information if you want to join us.
Regarding outboards, the problem with a large motor is in putting too much weight on the stern. Montgomerys like to have the weight forward, keeping the transom out of the water. You'll sail faster with less drag. Most 17 sailors use a 4 or 5 hp motor, and none in our group have had any issues with having enough power for the same waters you plan on sailing. My boat is a 1976 model and has the cutout like yours. I like having the motor there in the cutout. It's a nice solid mount, with no lowering bracket to hassle with, and the weight is further forward. True, only about a foot, but it's a noticeable difference. I tried moving mine to an adjustable mount once and didn't like it at all. The boat just didn't feel right, and leaning over the transom to operate that bracket was a pain. When you mount your motor in the cutout, you have to be aware of the clearance between it and your rudder. Scoot the motor as far to the side as possible. Some motors (like the Yamaha 4hp 4 stroke) have the control arm mounted off to the side which limits how far you can go. For that reason, I use a Suzuki 4 stroke. The control arm is more in front of the motor allowing me to mount the motor near the port side of the cutout, giving better clearance. The Suzuki 4hp and 6hp weigh the same, so I opted for the 6 which is set up for both internal and external tanks. Very nice when cruising. You can also have a charging coil added to charge you house battery while motoring. And yes, you'll want the 20" long shaft motor. Extra long is not really needed.
Larry M17 CornDog
roger:
Don't "IMO"?
IMO is internet slang for 'in my opinion'.
What is the key frustration with your 4HP Suzuki?
number of things - first, the motor will not stay in the 'straight' locked position. i must tie the motor, using lines, to the port and starboard stern cleats so the motor doesn't turn. the motor has done this since it was new. best cost to fix ... with no guarantee ... is $500. second, the motor is difficult to start. 8-10 when it is cold. about 4-6 when warm. (i am spoiled by the Honda 2HP i had on my M15, and now on Sage 17, that start (cold) in 2-3 pulls and warm 80% of the time on the first pull.) third, the cooling water impeller is difficult to service. fourth, the entire gear selector mechanism failed on me (not the gears, the shifter). $450 later it works fine. others may have different experiences ... i have talked with larry about my issues and he doesn't experience #1 and #2, nor had failure #4. larry does experience #3, but not to the level of my motor. :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage Marine --- On Sat, 1/28/12, Jeanette Matcham <jeanmatcham@shaw.ca> wrote:
Dear David.
Many thanks for your email and for the useful information.
I am from the UK and so not so used to the USA and Canadian terms and colloquialisms. However I am getting there.
Don't "IMO"?
What is the key frustration with your 4HP Suzuki?
Thanks again for writing . I must say that I have had a very good welcome and response from the group.
Many thanks
Roger On 28-Jan-12, at 11:35 AM, W David Scobie wrote:
roger:
i'm with the opinion of others that have stated a 4-5 outboard are just fine for the M17. i have the 4HP suzuki on my M17 (SWEET PEA, #375, built in '83). larry has had better experience with his outboard than i, but i've never been stranded by the motor (just REALLY frustrated). i have never needed to 'full throttle' the 4HP motor. i usually motor along at just over 1/2 throttle at 4.8 knots.
the 6HP and 4HP, as larry states, have the same power head and weight. just a different carb. for more HP. the 6HP comes with an external fuel tank option, and the alternator (not available for the 4HP suzuki).
6HP is more than you need on the M17 ... even in the gulf and san juan islands. i'm born and raised from the seattle area and have cruised the san juan and gulf islands since the late 1970s.
use the cutout on the transom, don't IMO, consider using a motor mount. larry sails the fastest M17 i've ever seen. i have never seen him dragging the prop when the motor is in the tilted position (larry can better comment if it can happen ... again, i've never seen it in the times i've been behind larry looking at his transom).
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage Marine
________________________________ From: W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 11:35 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: New Member & M17 outboard size roger: i'm with the opinion of others that have stated a 4-5 outboard are just fine for the M17. i have the 4HP suzuki on my M17 (SWEET PEA, #375, built in '83). larry has had better experience with his outboard than i, but i've never been stranded by the motor (just REALLY frustrated). i have never needed to 'full throttle' the 4HP motor. i usually motor along at just over 1/2 throttle at 4.8 knots. the 6HP and 4HP, as larry states, have the same power head and weight. just a different carb. for more HP. the 6HP comes with an external fuel tank option, and the alternator (not available for the 4HP suzuki). 6HP is more than you need on the M17 ... even in the gulf and san juan islands. i'm born and raised from the seattle area and have cruised the san juan and gulf islands since the late 1970s. use the cutout on the transom, don't IMO, consider using a motor mount. larry sails the fastest M17 i've ever seen. i have never seen him dragging the prop when the motor is in the tilted position (larry can better comment if it can happen ... again, i've never seen it in the times i've been behind larry looking at his transom). :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage Marine --- On Sat, 1/28/12, Jeanette Matcham <jeanmatcham@shaw.ca> wrote:
Dear Larry.
Very many thanks for all this advice .
The Suzuki 6 HP sounds good . Many thanks for the comments on the extra long shaft.
Whilst I have a solar panel clearly the charging facility on the 6 HP is very valuable.
I will be interested in the San Juan and Gulf Island cruise and will keep my eyes open for information on this.
I am sorry to be a pain but have you any photographs of the stern of your boat with the Suzuki 6 in place?
Thanks again for your kind help. I very much appreciate your time.
Best wishes
Roger On 28-Jan-12, at 10:29 AM, Larry E Yake wrote:
Roger,
Welcome to the group. You'll love your M17, especially in the great cruising grounds where you live. There is a good group of us the cruise the San Juan and Gulf Islands every couple of years. Next trip will probably be in 2013. Watch this e-mail list for information if you want to join us.
Regarding outboards, the problem with a large motor is in putting too much weight on the stern. Montgomerys like to have the weight forward, keeping the transom out of the water. You'll sail faster with less drag. Most 17 sailors use a 4 or 5 hp motor, and none in our group have had any issues with having enough power for the same waters you plan on sailing. My boat is a 1976 model and has the cutout like yours. I like having the motor there in the cutout. It's a nice solid mount, with no lowering bracket to hassle with, and the weight is further forward. True, only about a foot, but it's a noticeable difference. I tried moving mine to an adjustable mount once and didn't like it at all. The boat just didn't feel right, and leaning over the transom to operate that bracket was a pain. When you mount your motor in the cutout, you have to be aware of the clearance between it and your rudder. Scoot the motor as far to the side as possible. Some motors (like the Yamaha 4hp 4 stroke) have the control arm mounted off to the side which limits how far you can go. For that reason, I use a Suzuki 4 stroke. The control arm is more in front of the motor allowing me to mount the motor near the port side of the cutout, giving better clearance. The Suzuki 4hp and 6hp weigh the same, so I opted for the 6 which is set up for both internal and external tanks. Very nice when cruising. You can also have a charging coil added to charge you house battery while motoring. And yes, you'll want the 20" long shaft motor. Extra long is not really needed.
Larry M17 CornDog
I just want to chime in on the outboard question. IMHO you need to know what kind of sailing or motoring you really want to do. For me who owns several boats it may be a lot different then you. When I sail my 17 I want to sail. When I use the motor it's usually for a short time or maybe going to weather in a long narrow channel getting to where I want to sail, or just getting somewhere when there's no wind. The other thing I want is light weight . I don't want to lift anything near a 6 hp motor any more, nor do I want the damn thing hanging on the transom. I'm also tired of 2 strokes getting blue smoke and oil on my tuna sandwiches. Enter the Honda 2hp. I had serious doubt that this was enough poop for my fat little 17 but I was wrong. It pushes it a nearly hull speed in flat water and was way blown away how well it did one afternoon towing another lapstrake 17 footer with a lazy crew in after a race. Have I tried going to weather in 30 knots of wind with 3 ft. chop? nope. But I know I could motor sail into it if need be. Anyway it works for me and I'm just pickled tink I got what I got. I actually doubt that it only makes 2 hp. I think the 2 has now become a 2.5 hp and I wonder if they changed anything?/ Stan ________________________________ From: Stan Susman <stanpfa@pacbell.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 4:08 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: New Member & M17 outboard size ________________________________ From: W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 11:35 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: New Member & M17 outboard size roger: i'm with the opinion of others that have stated a 4-5 outboard are just fine for the M17. i have the 4HP suzuki on my M17 (SWEET PEA, #375, built in '83). larry has had better experience with his outboard than i, but i've never been stranded by the motor (just REALLY frustrated). i have never needed to 'full throttle' the 4HP motor. i usually motor along at just over 1/2 throttle at 4.8 knots. the 6HP and 4HP, as larry states, have the same power head and weight. just a different carb. for more HP. the 6HP comes with an external fuel tank option, and the alternator (not available for the 4HP suzuki). 6HP is more than you need on the M17 ... even in the gulf and san juan islands. i'm born and raised from the seattle area and have cruised the san juan and gulf islands since the late 1970s. use the cutout on the transom, don't IMO, consider using a motor mount. larry sails the fastest M17 i've ever seen. i have never seen him dragging the prop when the motor is in the tilted position (larry can better comment if it can happen ... again, i've never seen it in the times i've been behind larry looking at his transom). :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage Marine --- On Sat, 1/28/12, Jeanette Matcham <jeanmatcham@shaw.ca> wrote:
Dear Larry.
Very many thanks for all this advice .
The Suzuki 6 HP sounds good . Many thanks for the comments on the extra long shaft.
Whilst I have a solar panel clearly the charging facility on the 6 HP is very valuable.
I will be interested in the San Juan and Gulf Island cruise and will keep my eyes open for information on this.
I am sorry to be a pain but have you any photographs of the stern of your boat with the Suzuki 6 in place?
Thanks again for your kind help. I very much appreciate your time.
Best wishes
Roger On 28-Jan-12, at 10:29 AM, Larry E Yake wrote:
Roger,
Welcome to the group. You'll love your M17, especially in the great cruising grounds where you live. There is a good group of us the cruise the San Juan and Gulf Islands every couple of years. Next trip will probably be in 2013. Watch this e-mail list for information if you want to join us.
Regarding outboards, the problem with a large motor is in putting too much weight on the stern. Montgomerys like to have the weight forward, keeping the transom out of the water. You'll sail faster with less drag. Most 17 sailors use a 4 or 5 hp motor, and none in our group have had any issues with having enough power for the same waters you plan on sailing. My boat is a 1976 model and has the cutout like yours. I like having the motor there in the cutout. It's a nice solid mount, with no lowering bracket to hassle with, and the weight is further forward. True, only about a foot, but it's a noticeable difference. I tried moving mine to an adjustable mount once and didn't like it at all. The boat just didn't feel right, and leaning over the transom to operate that bracket was a pain. When you mount your motor in the cutout, you have to be aware of the clearance between it and your rudder. Scoot the motor as far to the side as possible. Some motors (like the Yamaha 4hp 4 stroke) have the control arm mounted off to the side which limits how far you can go. For that reason, I use a Suzuki 4 stroke. The control arm is more in front of the motor allowing me to mount the motor near the port side of the cutout, giving better clearance. The Suzuki 4hp and 6hp weigh the same, so I opted for the 6 which is set up for both internal and external tanks. Very nice when cruising. You can also have a charging coil added to charge you house battery while motoring. And yes, you'll want the 20" long shaft motor. Extra long is not really needed.
Larry M17 CornDog
Dear Stan. Many thanks for your wise observations. I am also now of that certain vintage when to avoid lifting heavy outboards seems to be a sensible strategy. I may however, on many outings, have to negotiate narrow channels and hence need to look at quiet reliability, low weight and adequate power. I am interested that you use a 2HP motor and thank you for adding your voice. Very best wishes and again thanks. Roger On 28-Jan-12, at 10:38 PM, Stan Susman wrote:
I just want to chime in on the outboard question. IMHO you need to know what kind of sailing or motoring you really want to do. For me who owns several boats it may be a lot different then you. When I sail my 17 I want to sail. When I use the motor it's usually for a short time or maybe going to weather in a long narrow channel getting to where I want to sail, or just getting somewhere when there's no wind. The other thing I want is light weight . I don't want to lift anything near a 6 hp motor any more, nor do I want the damn thing hanging on the transom. I'm also tired of 2 strokes getting blue smoke and oil on my tuna sandwiches. Enter the Honda 2hp. I had serious doubt that this was enough poop for my fat little 17 but I was wrong. It pushes it a nearly hull speed in flat water and was way blown away how well it did one afternoon towing another lapstrake 17 footer with a lazy crew in after a race. Have I tried going to weather in 30 knots of wind with 3 ft. chop? nope. But I know I could motor sail into it if need be. Anyway it works for me and I'm just pickled tink I got what I got. I actually doubt that it only makes 2 hp. I think the 2 has now become a 2.5 hp and I wonder if they changed anything?/
Stan
________________________________ From: Stan Susman <stanpfa@pacbell.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 4:08 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: New Member & M17 outboard size
________________________________ From: W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 11:35 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: New Member & M17 outboard size
roger:
i'm with the opinion of others that have stated a 4-5 outboard are just fine for the M17. i have the 4HP suzuki on my M17 (SWEET PEA, #375, built in '83). larry has had better experience with his outboard than i, but i've never been stranded by the motor (just REALLY frustrated). i have never needed to 'full throttle' the 4HP motor. i usually motor along at just over 1/2 throttle at 4.8 knots.
the 6HP and 4HP, as larry states, have the same power head and weight. just a different carb. for more HP. the 6HP comes with an external fuel tank option, and the alternator (not available for the 4HP suzuki).
6HP is more than you need on the M17 ... even in the gulf and san juan islands. i'm born and raised from the seattle area and have cruised the san juan and gulf islands since the late 1970s.
use the cutout on the transom, don't IMO, consider using a motor mount. larry sails the fastest M17 i've ever seen. i have never seen him dragging the prop when the motor is in the tilted position (larry can better comment if it can happen ... again, i've never seen it in the times i've been behind larry looking at his transom).
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage Marine
--- On Sat, 1/28/12, Jeanette Matcham <jeanmatcham@shaw.ca> wrote:
Dear Larry.
Very many thanks for all this advice .
The Suzuki 6 HP sounds good . Many thanks for the comments on the extra long shaft.
Whilst I have a solar panel clearly the charging facility on the 6 HP is very valuable.
I will be interested in the San Juan and Gulf Island cruise and will keep my eyes open for information on this.
I am sorry to be a pain but have you any photographs of the stern of your boat with the Suzuki 6 in place?
Thanks again for your kind help. I very much appreciate your time.
Best wishes
Roger On 28-Jan-12, at 10:29 AM, Larry E Yake wrote:
Roger,
Welcome to the group. You'll love your M17, especially in the great cruising grounds where you live. There is a good group of us the cruise the San Juan and Gulf Islands every couple of years. Next trip will probably be in 2013. Watch this e-mail list for information if you want to join us.
Regarding outboards, the problem with a large motor is in putting too much weight on the stern. Montgomerys like to have the weight forward, keeping the transom out of the water. You'll sail faster with less drag. Most 17 sailors use a 4 or 5 hp motor, and none in our group have had any issues with having enough power for the same waters you plan on sailing. My boat is a 1976 model and has the cutout like yours. I like having the motor there in the cutout. It's a nice solid mount, with no lowering bracket to hassle with, and the weight is further forward. True, only about a foot, but it's a noticeable difference. I tried moving mine to an adjustable mount once and didn't like it at all. The boat just didn't feel right, and leaning over the transom to operate that bracket was a pain. When you mount your motor in the cutout, you have to be aware of the clearance between it and your rudder. Scoot the motor as far to the side as possible. Some motors (like the Yamaha 4hp 4 stroke) have the control arm mounted off to the side which limits how far you can go. For that reason, I use a Suzuki 4 stroke. The control arm is more in front of the motor allowing me to mount the motor near the port side of the cutout, giving better clearance. The Suzuki 4hp and 6hp weigh the same, so I opted for the 6 which is set up for both internal and external tanks. Very nice when cruising. You can also have a charging coil added to charge you house battery while motoring. And yes, you'll want the 20" long shaft motor. Extra long is not really needed.
Larry M17 CornDog
I'll totally agree with Stan - I was the guy in the other lapstrake 17 footer that was being towed out of pure laziness and was also impressed with the Honda 2. Wish I had one instead of my Yamaha 3, which rums like a charm but has more power than needed and weighs at least ten pounds more. Get the Honda- don't be cheep like me! jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeanette Matcham" <jeanmatcham@shaw.ca> To: "Stan Susman" <stanpfa@pacbell.net>; "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 11:24 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: New Member & M17 outboard size
Dear Stan.
Many thanks for your wise observations. I am also now of that certain vintage when to avoid lifting heavy outboards seems to be a sensible strategy.
I may however, on many outings, have to negotiate narrow channels and hence need to look at quiet reliability, low weight and adequate power.
I am interested that you use a 2HP motor and thank you for adding your voice.
Very best wishes and again thanks.
Roger On 28-Jan-12, at 10:38 PM, Stan Susman wrote:
I just want to chime in on the outboard question. IMHO you need to know what kind of sailing or motoring you really want to do. For me who owns several boats it may be a lot different then you. When I sail my 17 I want to sail. When I use the motor it's usually for a short time or maybe going to weather in a long narrow channel getting to where I want to sail, or just getting somewhere when there's no wind. The other thing I want is light weight . I don't want to lift anything near a 6 hp motor any more, nor do I want the damn thing hanging on the transom. I'm also tired of 2 strokes getting blue smoke and oil on my tuna sandwiches. Enter the Honda 2hp. I had serious doubt that this was enough poop for my fat little 17 but I was wrong. It pushes it a nearly hull speed in flat water and was way blown away how well it did one afternoon towing another lapstrake 17 footer with a lazy crew in after a race. Have I tried going to weather in 30 knots of wind with 3 ft. chop? nope. But I know I could motor sail into it if need be. Anyway it works for me and I'm just pickled tink I got what I got. I actually doubt that it only makes 2 hp. I think the 2 has now become a 2.5 hp and I wonder if they changed anything?/
Stan
________________________________ From: Stan Susman <stanpfa@pacbell.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 4:08 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: New Member & M17 outboard size
________________________________ From: W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 11:35 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: New Member & M17 outboard size
roger:
i'm with the opinion of others that have stated a 4-5 outboard are just fine for the M17. i have the 4HP suzuki on my M17 (SWEET PEA, #375, built in '83). larry has had better experience with his outboard than i, but i've never been stranded by the motor (just REALLY frustrated). i have never needed to 'full throttle' the 4HP motor. i usually motor along at just over 1/2 throttle at 4.8 knots.
the 6HP and 4HP, as larry states, have the same power head and weight. just a different carb. for more HP. the 6HP comes with an external fuel tank option, and the alternator (not available for the 4HP suzuki).
6HP is more than you need on the M17 ... even in the gulf and san juan islands. i'm born and raised from the seattle area and have cruised the san juan and gulf islands since the late 1970s.
use the cutout on the transom, don't IMO, consider using a motor mount. larry sails the fastest M17 i've ever seen. i have never seen him dragging the prop when the motor is in the tilted position (larry can better comment if it can happen ... again, i've never seen it in the times i've been behind larry looking at his transom).
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage Marine
--- On Sat, 1/28/12, Jeanette Matcham <jeanmatcham@shaw.ca> wrote:
Dear Larry.
Very many thanks for all this advice .
The Suzuki 6 HP sounds good . Many thanks for the comments on the extra long shaft.
Whilst I have a solar panel clearly the charging facility on the 6 HP is very valuable.
I will be interested in the San Juan and Gulf Island cruise and will keep my eyes open for information on this.
I am sorry to be a pain but have you any photographs of the stern of your boat with the Suzuki 6 in place?
Thanks again for your kind help. I very much appreciate your time.
Best wishes
Roger On 28-Jan-12, at 10:29 AM, Larry E Yake wrote:
Roger,
Welcome to the group. You'll love your M17, especially in the great cruising grounds where you live. There is a good group of us the cruise the San Juan and Gulf Islands every couple of years. Next trip will probably be in 2013. Watch this e-mail list for information if you want to join us.
Regarding outboards, the problem with a large motor is in putting too much weight on the stern. Montgomerys like to have the weight forward, keeping the transom out of the water. You'll sail faster with less drag. Most 17 sailors use a 4 or 5 hp motor, and none in our group have had any issues with having enough power for the same waters you plan on sailing. My boat is a 1976 model and has the cutout like yours. I like having the motor there in the cutout. It's a nice solid mount, with no lowering bracket to hassle with, and the weight is further forward. True, only about a foot, but it's a noticeable difference. I tried moving mine to an adjustable mount once and didn't like it at all. The boat just didn't feel right, and leaning over the transom to operate that bracket was a pain. When you mount your motor in the cutout, you have to be aware of the clearance between it and your rudder. Scoot the motor as far to the side as possible. Some motors (like the Yamaha 4hp 4 stroke) have the control arm mounted off to the side which limits how far you can go. For that reason, I use a Suzuki 4 stroke. The control arm is more in front of the motor allowing me to mount the motor near the port side of the cutout, giving better clearance. The Suzuki 4hp and 6hp weigh the same, so I opted for the 6 which is set up for both internal and external tanks. Very nice when cruising. You can also have a charging coil added to charge you house battery while motoring. And yes, you'll want the 20" long shaft motor. Extra long is not really needed.
Larry M17 CornDog
-- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 6182 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message
Well put, Stan. I have a Honda 5 because it came with my 17, but I would have chosen the 2 if I had to buy it. I don't know what the range is on the integral tank, and I have pitied folks filling their tank in bumpy water, but there is probably a trick way to tap into the system without standing up with a gas can. Tom On Jan 28, 2012, at 10:38 PM, Stan Susman wrote:
I just want to chime in on the outboard question. IMHO you need to know what kind of sailing or motoring you really want to do. For me who owns several boats it may be a lot different then you. When I sail my 17 I want to sail. When I use the motor it's usually for a short time or maybe going to weather in a long narrow channel getting to where I want to sail, or just getting somewhere when there's no wind. The other thing I want is light weight . I don't want to lift anything near a 6 hp motor any more, nor do I want the damn thing hanging on the transom. I'm also tired of 2 strokes getting blue smoke and oil on my tuna sandwiches. Enter the Honda 2hp. I had serious doubt that this was enough poop for my fat little 17 but I was wrong. It pushes it a nearly hull speed in flat water and was way blown away how well it did one afternoon towing another lapstrake 17 footer with a lazy crew in after a race. Have I tried going to weather in 30 knots of wind with 3 ft. chop? nope. But I know I could motor sail into it if need be. Anyway it works for me and I'm just pickled tink I got what I got. I actually doubt that it only makes 2 hp. I think the 2 has now become a 2.5 hp and I wonder if they changed anything?/
Stan
________________________________ From: Stan Susman <stanpfa@pacbell.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 4:08 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: New Member & M17 outboard size
________________________________ From: W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 11:35 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: New Member & M17 outboard size
roger:
i'm with the opinion of others that have stated a 4-5 outboard are just fine for the M17. i have the 4HP suzuki on my M17 (SWEET PEA, #375, built in '83). larry has had better experience with his outboard than i, but i've never been stranded by the motor (just REALLY frustrated). i have never needed to 'full throttle' the 4HP motor. i usually motor along at just over 1/2 throttle at 4.8 knots.
the 6HP and 4HP, as larry states, have the same power head and weight. just a different carb. for more HP. the 6HP comes with an external fuel tank option, and the alternator (not available for the 4HP suzuki).
6HP is more than you need on the M17 ... even in the gulf and san juan islands. i'm born and raised from the seattle area and have cruised the san juan and gulf islands since the late 1970s.
use the cutout on the transom, don't IMO, consider using a motor mount. larry sails the fastest M17 i've ever seen. i have never seen him dragging the prop when the motor is in the tilted position (larry can better comment if it can happen ... again, i've never seen it in the times i've been behind larry looking at his transom).
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage Marine
--- On Sat, 1/28/12, Jeanette Matcham <jeanmatcham@shaw.ca> wrote:
Dear Larry.
Very many thanks for all this advice .
The Suzuki 6 HP sounds good . Many thanks for the comments on the extra long shaft.
Whilst I have a solar panel clearly the charging facility on the 6 HP is very valuable.
I will be interested in the San Juan and Gulf Island cruise and will keep my eyes open for information on this.
I am sorry to be a pain but have you any photographs of the stern of your boat with the Suzuki 6 in place?
Thanks again for your kind help. I very much appreciate your time.
Best wishes
Roger On 28-Jan-12, at 10:29 AM, Larry E Yake wrote:
Roger,
Welcome to the group. You'll love your M17, especially in the great cruising grounds where you live. There is a good group of us the cruise the San Juan and Gulf Islands every couple of years. Next trip will probably be in 2013. Watch this e-mail list for information if you want to join us.
Regarding outboards, the problem with a large motor is in putting too much weight on the stern. Montgomerys like to have the weight forward, keeping the transom out of the water. You'll sail faster with less drag. Most 17 sailors use a 4 or 5 hp motor, and none in our group have had any issues with having enough power for the same waters you plan on sailing. My boat is a 1976 model and has the cutout like yours. I like having the motor there in the cutout. It's a nice solid mount, with no lowering bracket to hassle with, and the weight is further forward. True, only about a foot, but it's a noticeable difference. I tried moving mine to an adjustable mount once and didn't like it at all. The boat just didn't feel right, and leaning over the transom to operate that bracket was a pain. When you mount your motor in the cutout, you have to be aware of the clearance between it and your rudder. Scoot the motor as far to the side as possible. Some motors (like the Yamaha 4hp 4 stroke) have the control arm mounted off to the side which limits how far you can go. For that reason, I use a Suzuki 4 stroke. The control arm is more in front of the motor allowing me to mount the motor near the port side of the cutout, giving better clearance. The Suzuki 4hp and 6hp weigh the same, so I opted for the 6 which is set up for both internal and external tanks. Very nice when cruising. You can also have a charging coil added to charge you house battery while motoring. And yes, you'll want the 20" long shaft motor. Extra long is not really needed.
Larry M17 CornDog
Tom, my first boat in this pocket cruiser world was a WWP 15 (I think I had moved on to the WWP 19 by the time I met you) and I took that to Catalina with the SoCal Potters and Howie told me how to put together a fuel line from an external tank using the line and primer bulb to pump the gas into the internal tank. The last bit of line is clear and you put a shutoff valve near the end so you don't spill gas all over the place. Still a little challenging in rough conditions but much better that filling from a can. After awhile you know how long before your tank is low and how many times to squeeze the bulb to fill your tank. I am going to try to get out to Havasu for the boat show day to see everyone, unfortunately the work situation now does not allow me even a weekend off let alone a week at Havasu. Take care, Jim E M-17 #603 Grace -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jenkins Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 10:35 AM To: Stan Susman; For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: New Member & M17 outboard size Well put, Stan. I have a Honda 5 because it came with my 17, but I would have chosen the 2 if I had to buy it. I don't know what the range is on the integral tank, and I have pitied folks filling their tank in bumpy water, but there is probably a trick way to tap into the system without standing up with a gas can. Tom On Jan 28, 2012, at 10:38 PM, Stan Susman wrote:
I just want to chime in on the outboard question. IMHO you need to know what kind of sailing or motoring you really want to do. For me who owns several boats it may be a lot different then you. When I sail my 17 I want to sail. When I use the motor it's usually for a short time or maybe going to weather in a long narrow channel getting to where I want to sail, or just getting somewhere when there's no wind. The other thing I want is light weight . I don't want to lift anything near a 6 hp motor any more, nor do I want the damn thing hanging on the transom. I'm also tired of 2 strokes getting blue smoke and oil on my tuna sandwiches. Enter the Honda 2hp. I had serious doubt that this was enough poop for my fat little 17 but I was wrong. It pushes it a nearly hull speed in flat water and was way blown away how well it did one afternoon towing another lapstrake 17 footer with a lazy crew in after a race. Have I tried going to weather in 30 knots of wind with 3 ft. chop? nope. But I know I could motor sail into it if need be. Anyway it works for me and I'm just pickled tink I got what I got. I actually doubt that it only makes 2 hp. I think the 2 has now become a 2.5 hp and I wonder if they changed anything?/
Stan
________________________________ From: Stan Susman <stanpfa@pacbell.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 4:08 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: New Member & M17 outboard size
________________________________ From: W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 11:35 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: New Member & M17 outboard size
roger:
i'm with the opinion of others that have stated a 4-5 outboard are just fine for the M17. i have the 4HP suzuki on my M17 (SWEET PEA, #375, built in '83). larry has had better experience with his outboard than i, but i've never been stranded by the motor (just REALLY frustrated). i have never needed to 'full throttle' the 4HP motor. i usually motor along at just over 1/2 throttle at 4.8 knots.
the 6HP and 4HP, as larry states, have the same power head and weight. just a different carb. for more HP. the 6HP comes with an external fuel tank option, and the alternator (not available for the 4HP suzuki).
6HP is more than you need on the M17 ... even in the gulf and san juan islands. i'm born and raised from the seattle area and have cruised the san juan and gulf islands since the late 1970s.
use the cutout on the transom, don't IMO, consider using a motor mount. larry sails the fastest M17 i've ever seen. i have never seen him dragging the prop when the motor is in the tilted position (larry can better comment if it can happen ... again, i've never seen it in the times i've been behind larry looking at his transom).
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage Marine
--- On Sat, 1/28/12, Jeanette Matcham <jeanmatcham@shaw.ca> wrote:
Dear Larry.
Very many thanks for all this advice .
The Suzuki 6 HP sounds good . Many thanks for the comments on the extra long shaft.
Whilst I have a solar panel clearly the charging facility on the 6 HP is very valuable.
I will be interested in the San Juan and Gulf Island cruise and will keep my eyes open for information on this.
I am sorry to be a pain but have you any photographs of the stern of your boat with the Suzuki 6 in place?
Thanks again for your kind help. I very much appreciate your time.
Best wishes
Roger On 28-Jan-12, at 10:29 AM, Larry E Yake wrote:
Roger,
Welcome to the group. You'll love your M17, especially in the great cruising grounds where you live. There is a good group of us the cruise the San Juan and Gulf Islands every couple of years. Next trip will probably be in 2013. Watch this e-mail list for information if you want to join us.
Regarding outboards, the problem with a large motor is in putting too much weight on the stern. Montgomerys like to have the weight forward, keeping the transom out of the water. You'll sail faster with less drag. Most 17 sailors use a 4 or 5 hp motor, and none in our group have had any issues with having enough power for the same waters you plan on sailing. My boat is a 1976 model and has the cutout like yours. I like having the motor there in the cutout. It's a nice solid mount, with no lowering bracket to hassle with, and the weight is further forward. True, only about a foot, but it's a noticeable difference. I tried moving mine to an adjustable mount once and didn't like it at all. The boat just didn't feel right, and leaning over the transom to operate that bracket was a pain. When you mount your motor in the cutout, you have to be aware of the clearance between it and your rudder. Scoot the motor as far to the side as possible. Some motors (like the Yamaha 4hp 4 stroke) have the control arm mounted off to the side which limits how far you can go. For that reason, I use a Suzuki 4 stroke. The control arm is more in front of the motor allowing me to mount the motor near the port side of the cutout, giving better clearance. The Suzuki 4hp and 6hp weigh the same, so I opted for the 6 which is set up for both internal and external tanks. Very nice when cruising. You can also have a charging coil added to charge you house battery while motoring. And yes, you'll want the 20" long shaft motor. Extra long is not really needed.
Larry M17 CornDog
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4774 - Release Date: 01/29/12
I have not read every post on this topic so this may have been covered. I have a 4hp 4 stroke Yamahamaha long shaft. It is a bit of a workout lifting up and onto the mount (or off for that matter) but not impossible. This motor generates much more power than you 'need' and it is physically a little heavy. I have it on a lifting mount and it never drags. I have actually towed a few boats off the lake in the past. One was a 35 foot monster mobo. It took a bit of throttle to get it moving but the Yamaha tugged that rascal about two miles with no strain. It is good to be able to help folks out and have a bit of headroom power-wise. This motor will also switch between internal fuel tank and external. I rigged up a quick connect to the fuel line and generally keep a small tank in the laz locker. I like options. I don't mind the weight. I usually have more beer on board than whatever extra weight might be figured between motor selection. In fact, with full stores in cruising mode I like the 17....specially in heavier air. With any of my outdoor pursuits, I usually take what I need and worry not about weight. On my lake, depending where you are and wind direction...it generates a steep/short length wave at about 15 knots of wind speed. Keeping enough sail up to punch through that stuff is wet work...and slow....some days I just motor my way through. This motor will make as much speed in these conditions as I ask it to. A Sunday 2cents worth. Tim in Kelowna ------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ellsworth Sent: January 29, 2012 11:08 To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: New Member & M17 outboard size Tom, my first boat in this pocket cruiser world was a WWP 15 (I think I had moved on to the WWP 19 by the time I met you) and I took that to Catalina with the SoCal Potters and Howie told me how to put together a fuel line from an external tank using the line and primer bulb to pump the gas into the internal tank. The last bit of line is clear and you put a shutoff valve near the end so you don't spill gas all over the place. Still a little challenging in rough conditions but much better that filling from a can. After awhile you know how long before your tank is low and how many times to squeeze the bulb to fill your tank. I am going to try to get out to Havasu for the boat show day to see everyone, unfortunately the work situation now does not allow me even a weekend off let alone a week at Havasu. Take care, Jim E M-17 #603 Grace -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jenkins Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 10:35 AM To: Stan Susman; For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: New Member & M17 outboard size Well put, Stan. I have a Honda 5 because it came with my 17, but I would have chosen the 2 if I had to buy it. I don't know what the range is on the integral tank, and I have pitied folks filling their tank in bumpy water, but there is probably a trick way to tap into the system without standing up with a gas can. Tom On Jan 28, 2012, at 10:38 PM, Stan Susman wrote:
I just want to chime in on the outboard question. IMHO you need to know what kind of sailing or motoring you really want to do. For me who owns several boats it may be a lot different then you. When I sail my 17 I want to sail. When I use the motor it's usually for a short time or maybe going to weather in a long narrow channel getting to where I want to sail, or just getting somewhere when there's no wind. The other thing I want is light weight . I don't want to lift anything near a 6 hp motor any more, nor do I want the damn thing hanging on the transom. I'm also tired of 2 strokes getting blue smoke and oil on my tuna sandwiches. Enter the Honda 2hp. I had serious doubt that this was enough poop for my fat little 17 but I was wrong. It pushes it a nearly hull speed in flat water and was way blown away how well it did one afternoon towing another lapstrake 17 footer with a lazy crew in after a race. Have I tried going to weather in 30 knots of wind with 3 ft. chop? nope. But I know I could motor sail into it if need be. Anyway it works for me and I'm just pickled tink I got what I got. I actually doubt that it only makes 2 hp. I think the 2 has now become a 2.5 hp and I wonder if they changed anything?/
Stan
________________________________ From: Stan Susman <stanpfa@pacbell.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 4:08 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: New Member & M17 outboard size
________________________________ From: W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 11:35 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: New Member & M17 outboard size
roger:
i'm with the opinion of others that have stated a 4-5 outboard are just fine for the M17. i have the 4HP suzuki on my M17 (SWEET PEA, #375, built in '83). larry has had better experience with his outboard than i, but i've never been stranded by the motor (just REALLY frustrated). i have never needed to 'full throttle' the 4HP motor. i usually motor along at just over 1/2 throttle at 4.8 knots.
the 6HP and 4HP, as larry states, have the same power head and weight. just a different carb. for more HP. the 6HP comes with an external fuel tank option, and the alternator (not available for the 4HP suzuki).
6HP is more than you need on the M17 ... even in the gulf and san juan islands. i'm born and raised from the seattle area and have cruised the san juan and gulf islands since the late 1970s.
use the cutout on the transom, don't IMO, consider using a motor mount. larry sails the fastest M17 i've ever seen. i have never seen him dragging the prop when the motor is in the tilted position (larry can better comment if it can happen ... again, i've never seen it in the times i've been behind larry looking at his transom).
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage Marine
--- On Sat, 1/28/12, Jeanette Matcham <jeanmatcham@shaw.ca> wrote:
Dear Larry.
Very many thanks for all this advice .
The Suzuki 6 HP sounds good . Many thanks for the comments on the extra long shaft.
Whilst I have a solar panel clearly the charging facility on the 6 HP is very valuable.
I will be interested in the San Juan and Gulf Island cruise and will keep my eyes open for information on this.
I am sorry to be a pain but have you any photographs of the stern of your boat with the Suzuki 6 in place?
Thanks again for your kind help. I very much appreciate your time.
Best wishes
Roger On 28-Jan-12, at 10:29 AM, Larry E Yake wrote:
Roger,
Welcome to the group. You'll love your M17, especially in the great cruising grounds where you live. There is a good group of us the cruise the San Juan and Gulf Islands every couple of years. Next trip will probably be in 2013. Watch this e-mail list for information if you want to join us.
Regarding outboards, the problem with a large motor is in putting too much weight on the stern. Montgomerys like to have the weight forward, keeping the transom out of the water. You'll sail faster with less drag. Most 17 sailors use a 4 or 5 hp motor, and none in our group have had any issues with having enough power for the same waters you plan on sailing. My boat is a 1976 model and has the cutout like yours. I like having the motor there in the cutout. It's a nice solid mount, with no lowering bracket to hassle with, and the weight is further forward. True, only about a foot, but it's a noticeable difference. I tried moving mine to an adjustable mount once and didn't like it at all. The boat just didn't feel right, and leaning over the transom to operate that bracket was a pain. When you mount your motor in the cutout, you have to be aware of the clearance between it and your rudder. Scoot the motor as far to the side as possible. Some motors (like the Yamaha 4hp 4 stroke) have the control arm mounted off to the side which limits how far you can go. For that reason, I use a Suzuki 4 stroke. The control arm is more in front of the motor allowing me to mount the motor near the port side of the cutout, giving better clearance. The Suzuki 4hp and 6hp weigh the same, so I opted for the 6 which is set up for both internal and external tanks. Very nice when cruising. You can also have a charging coil added to charge you house battery while motoring. And yes, you'll want the 20" long shaft motor. Extra long is not really needed.
Larry M17 CornDog
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4774 - Release Date: 01/29/12 ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4774 - Release Date: 01/29/12
Jim, I thought someone came up with a solution to the filling problem, but I could not remember who. My Potter has a 2 hp Mariner 2 cycle that always held enough gas to get through the dead calms, but Catalina would be another story. Hope you can make it to Havasu for the day at least. Tom On Jan 29, 2012, at 11:08 AM, Jim Ellsworth wrote:
Tom, my first boat in this pocket cruiser world was a WWP 15 (I think I had moved on to the WWP 19 by the time I met you) and I took that to Catalina with the SoCal Potters and Howie told me how to put together a fuel line from an external tank using the line and primer bulb to pump the gas into the internal tank. The last bit of line is clear and you put a shutoff valve near the end so you don't spill gas all over the place. Still a little challenging in rough conditions but much better that filling from a can. After awhile you know how long before your tank is low and how many times to squeeze the bulb to fill your tank.
I am going to try to get out to Havasu for the boat show day to see everyone, unfortunately the work situation now does not allow me even a weekend off let alone a week at Havasu.
Take care,
Jim E M-17 #603 Grace
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jenkins Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 10:35 AM To: Stan Susman; For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: New Member & M17 outboard size
Well put, Stan. I have a Honda 5 because it came with my 17, but I would have chosen the 2 if I had to buy it. I don't know what the range is on the integral tank, and I have pitied folks filling their tank in bumpy water, but there is probably a trick way to tap into the system without standing up with a gas can.
Tom
On Jan 28, 2012, at 10:38 PM, Stan Susman wrote:
I just want to chime in on the outboard question. IMHO you need to know what kind of sailing or motoring you really want to do. For me who owns several boats it may be a lot different then you. When I sail my 17 I want to sail. When I use the motor it's usually for a short time or maybe going to weather in a long narrow channel getting to where I want to sail, or just getting somewhere when there's no wind. The other thing I want is light weight . I don't want to lift anything near a 6 hp motor any more, nor do I want the damn thing hanging on the transom. I'm also tired of 2 strokes getting blue smoke and oil on my tuna sandwiches. Enter the Honda 2hp. I had serious doubt that this was enough poop for my fat little 17 but I was wrong. It pushes it a nearly hull speed in flat water and was way blown away how well it did one afternoon towing another lapstrake 17 footer with a lazy crew in after a race. Have I tried going to weather in 30 knots of wind with 3 ft. chop? nope. But I know I could motor sail into it if need be. Anyway it works for me and I'm just pickled tink I got what I got. I actually doubt that it only makes 2 hp. I think the 2 has now become a 2.5 hp and I wonder if they changed anything?/
Stan
________________________________ From: Stan Susman <stanpfa@pacbell.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 4:08 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: New Member & M17 outboard size
________________________________ From: W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 11:35 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: New Member & M17 outboard size
roger:
i'm with the opinion of others that have stated a 4-5 outboard are just fine for the M17. i have the 4HP suzuki on my M17 (SWEET PEA, #375, built in '83). larry has had better experience with his outboard than i, but i've never been stranded by the motor (just REALLY frustrated). i have never needed to 'full throttle' the 4HP motor. i usually motor along at just over 1/2 throttle at 4.8 knots.
the 6HP and 4HP, as larry states, have the same power head and weight. just a different carb. for more HP. the 6HP comes with an external fuel tank option, and the alternator (not available for the 4HP suzuki).
6HP is more than you need on the M17 ... even in the gulf and san juan islands. i'm born and raised from the seattle area and have cruised the san juan and gulf islands since the late 1970s.
use the cutout on the transom, don't IMO, consider using a motor mount. larry sails the fastest M17 i've ever seen. i have never seen him dragging the prop when the motor is in the tilted position (larry can better comment if it can happen ... again, i've never seen it in the times i've been behind larry looking at his transom).
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage Marine
--- On Sat, 1/28/12, Jeanette Matcham <jeanmatcham@shaw.ca> wrote:
Dear Larry.
Very many thanks for all this advice .
The Suzuki 6 HP sounds good . Many thanks for the comments on the extra long shaft.
Whilst I have a solar panel clearly the charging facility on the 6 HP is very valuable.
I will be interested in the San Juan and Gulf Island cruise and will keep my eyes open for information on this.
I am sorry to be a pain but have you any photographs of the stern of your boat with the Suzuki 6 in place?
Thanks again for your kind help. I very much appreciate your time.
Best wishes
Roger On 28-Jan-12, at 10:29 AM, Larry E Yake wrote:
Roger,
Welcome to the group. You'll love your M17, especially in the great cruising grounds where you live. There is a good group of us the cruise the San Juan and Gulf Islands every couple of years. Next trip will probably be in 2013. Watch this e-mail list for information if you want to join us.
Regarding outboards, the problem with a large motor is in putting too much weight on the stern. Montgomerys like to have the weight forward, keeping the transom out of the water. You'll sail faster with less drag. Most 17 sailors use a 4 or 5 hp motor, and none in our group have had any issues with having enough power for the same waters you plan on sailing. My boat is a 1976 model and has the cutout like yours. I like having the motor there in the cutout. It's a nice solid mount, with no lowering bracket to hassle with, and the weight is further forward. True, only about a foot, but it's a noticeable difference. I tried moving mine to an adjustable mount once and didn't like it at all. The boat just didn't feel right, and leaning over the transom to operate that bracket was a pain. When you mount your motor in the cutout, you have to be aware of the clearance between it and your rudder. Scoot the motor as far to the side as possible. Some motors (like the Yamaha 4hp 4 stroke) have the control arm mounted off to the side which limits how far you can go. For that reason, I use a Suzuki 4 stroke. The control arm is more in front of the motor allowing me to mount the motor near the port side of the cutout, giving better clearance. The Suzuki 4hp and 6hp weigh the same, so I opted for the 6 which is set up for both internal and external tanks. Very nice when cruising. You can also have a charging coil added to charge you house battery while motoring. And yes, you'll want the 20" long shaft motor. Extra long is not really needed.
Larry M17 CornDog
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4774 - Release Date: 01/29/12
i've not seen anyway to get a true external fuel feed system on the Honda 2 (i've looked and looked). the usual methods - * rig an external tank that hooks onto the filler cap. use the bulb to put in some fuel every 15-20 minutes. this system involves creating a fuel tank vent line so you don't 'squirt' fuel out of the fuel cap vent. * rig an external tank with a bump bulb where the hose has a stop valve at the end. every 15-20 minutes unscrew the honda's fuel cap and use bulb to put in a few squirts of fuel. * third, which is what i use, is to use a fuel 1 gallon fuel can to fill the honda's tank. not at all fun if the sea is up. i have a secondary 3 gallon fuel can that i use to fill the smaller fuel can. the 1 gallon fuel can is much easier to control than a 3.5 gallon can. the best cans to use are the now 'illegal to purchase' fuel cans. the cans you can now buy require the use of three or four hands - one to hold, one to control, and another one (or two) to use the 'EPA approved filler valve that leaks all over the place'. * fourth, some folks fill smaller jugs that they can invert and fill the honda's tank. safer is the 1L size that are designed to hold white gas (used by backpackers for stove fuel). some folks use 1L soda-type bottles ... i don't recommend this because of the BOOM danger. if honda, or other small outboard manufacturer, provided a 3HP or smaller motor that had an external tank there would be a LOT of happy trailer sailors out there that sail in 17' and less sized boats. my range experiences with the honda 2HP are as follows - on a Montgomery 15 the motor pushes the boat along at 4.3 knots at just over 1/2 throttle. at this speed can go about 1 hour to 1 hour 15 min between fillups. on a Sage 17 the motor pushes the boat along at 4.5 knots at 2/3rd throttle. at this speed can go about 45 minutes between fillups. i always think range in hours, not miles ... comes from all my time sailing in places where you always seem to have a contrary tide 2/3rd of the time ;-) with four gallons on board i figured i had about 15 hours of motoring ability on my M15. on Sage 17 i figure i have about 11 hours of range. :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage Marine --- On Sun, 1/29/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Well put, Stan. I have a Honda 5 because it came with my 17, but I would have chosen the 2 if I had to buy it. I don't know what the range is on the integral tank, and I have pitied folks filling their tank in bumpy water, but there is probably a trick way to tap into the system without standing up with a gas can.
Tom
On Jan 28, 2012, at 10:38 PM, Stan Susman wrote:
I just want to chime in on the outboard question. IMHO you need to know what kind of sailing or motoring you really want to do. For me who owns several boats it may be a lot different then you. When I sail my 17 I want to sail. When I use the motor it's usually for a short time or maybe going to weather in a long narrow channel getting to where I want to sail, or just getting somewhere when there's no wind. The other thing I want is light weight . I don't want to lift anything near a 6 hp motor any more, nor do I want the damn thing hanging on the transom. I'm also tired of 2 strokes getting blue smoke and oil on my tuna sandwiches. Enter the Honda 2hp. I had serious doubt that this was enough poop for my fat little 17 but I was wrong. It pushes it a nearly hull speed in flat water and was way blown away how well it did one afternoon towing another lapstrake 17 footer with a lazy crew in after a race. Have I tried going to weather in 30 knots of wind with 3 ft. chop? nope. But I know I could motor sail into it if need be. Anyway it works for me and I'm just pickled tink I got what I got. I actually doubt that it only makes 2 hp. I think the 2 has now become a 2.5 hp and I wonder if they changed anything?/
Stan
This is not a "true" external tank but is an external tank with a connection to the internal tank. No gas cap removal required, just a few pumps on the bulb. I hear that this mod has been done for the Honda 2hp and works well. I have not done it myself. http://www.wwpotterowners.com/Modification82.html. Thanks Doug On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 12:16 PM, W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> wrote:
i've not seen anyway to get a true external fuel feed system on the Honda 2 (i've looked and looked).
the usual methods -
* rig an external tank that hooks onto the filler cap. use the bulb to put in some fuel every 15-20 minutes. this system involves creating a fuel tank vent line so you don't 'squirt' fuel out of the fuel cap vent.
* rig an external tank with a bump bulb where the hose has a stop valve at the end. every 15-20 minutes unscrew the honda's fuel cap and use bulb to put in a few squirts of fuel.
* third, which is what i use, is to use a fuel 1 gallon fuel can to fill the honda's tank. not at all fun if the sea is up. i have a secondary 3 gallon fuel can that i use to fill the smaller fuel can. the 1 gallon fuel can is much easier to control than a 3.5 gallon can. the best cans to use are the now 'illegal to purchase' fuel cans. the cans you can now buy require the use of three or four hands - one to hold, one to control, and another one (or two) to use the 'EPA approved filler valve that leaks all over the place'.
* fourth, some folks fill smaller jugs that they can invert and fill the honda's tank. safer is the 1L size that are designed to hold white gas (used by backpackers for stove fuel). some folks use 1L soda-type bottles ... i don't recommend this because of the BOOM danger.
if honda, or other small outboard manufacturer, provided a 3HP or smaller motor that had an external tank there would be a LOT of happy trailer sailors out there that sail in 17' and less sized boats.
my range experiences with the honda 2HP are as follows -
on a Montgomery 15 the motor pushes the boat along at 4.3 knots at just over 1/2 throttle. at this speed can go about 1 hour to 1 hour 15 min between fillups.
on a Sage 17 the motor pushes the boat along at 4.5 knots at 2/3rd throttle. at this speed can go about 45 minutes between fillups.
i always think range in hours, not miles ... comes from all my time sailing in places where you always seem to have a contrary tide 2/3rd of the time ;-)
with four gallons on board i figured i had about 15 hours of motoring ability on my M15. on Sage 17 i figure i have about 11 hours of range.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage Marine
--- On Sun, 1/29/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Well put, Stan. I have a Honda 5 because it came with my 17, but I would have chosen the 2 if I had to buy it. I don't know what the range is on the integral tank, and I have pitied folks filling their tank in bumpy water, but there is probably a trick way to tap into the system without standing up with a gas can.
Tom
On Jan 28, 2012, at 10:38 PM, Stan Susman wrote:
I just want to chime in on the outboard question. IMHO you need to know what kind of sailing or motoring you really want to do. For me who owns several boats it may be a lot different then you. When I sail my 17 I want to sail. When I use the motor it's usually for a short time or maybe going to weather in a long narrow channel getting to where I want to sail, or just getting somewhere when there's no wind. The other thing I want is light weight . I don't want to lift anything near a 6 hp motor any more, nor do I want the damn thing hanging on the transom. I'm also tired of 2 strokes getting blue smoke and oil on my tuna sandwiches. Enter the Honda 2hp. I had serious doubt that this was enough poop for my fat little 17 but I was wrong. It pushes it a nearly hull speed in flat water and was way blown away how well it did one afternoon towing another lapstrake 17 footer with a lazy crew in after a race. Have I tried going to weather in 30 knots of wind with 3 ft. chop? nope. But I know I could motor sail into it if need be. Anyway it works for me and I'm just pickled tink I got what I got. I actually doubt that it only makes 2 hp. I think the 2 has now become a 2.5 hp and I wonder if they changed anything?/
Stan
couple more links to fuel filling mods to add to the one doug shared: Captain Howie's Fuel Supply System - http://www.wwpotterowners.com/Modification141.html another mod ... don't know how it works as there is no follow-up discussion - http://homepage.mac.com/storm_boy/iblog/LearningtheRopes/C1642073231/E200608... :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage Marine --- On Sun, 1/29/12, douglas kelch <doug1kelch@gmail.com> wrote:
This is not a "true" external tank but is an external tank with a connection to the internal tank. No gas cap removal required, just a few pumps on the bulb.
I hear that this mod has been done for the Honda 2hp and works well.
I have not done it myself.
http://www.wwpotterowners.com/Modification82.html.
Thanks
Doug
participants (10)
-
douglas kelch -
Jeanette Matcham -
jerry montgomery -
Jim Ellsworth -
Ken Wheeler -
Larry E Yake -
Stan Susman -
Tim Diebert -
Tom Jenkins -
W David Scobie