jerry wrote:

Thanks again for your comments; they are still coming in and keep it up! I'm leaving this afternoon for an annual canoe camping/fishing in a wilderness are in the Sierras, and when I get back I'll review them and come up with some kind of concensus and post it. Looks like we are prejudiced in the way of wrinkles, as I suspected.

For my next column for SCA I'm working on an artical on small boat interiors, which ties in with all this.

jerry _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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Hi Jerry, Thanks for the reply. Have a great, and most enjoyable trip. Connie Benneck

x-authenticated : Sender SMTP authenticated by smtp.gotrain.org X-XM-SPF: eid=;;;mid=;;;hst=mx01.mta.xmission.com;;;ip=69.54.158.25;;;frm=bill@gotrain.org;;;spf=none X-XM-DomainKey: sender_domain=gotrain.org;;;sender=bill@gotrain.org;;;status=no signature X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 69.54.158.25 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: bill@gotrain.org X-Spam-DCC: XMission; sa02 1397; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on sa02.xmission.com X-Spam-Level: **** X-Spam-Status: No, score=4.7 required=8.0 tests=BAYES_50,DCC_CHECK_NEGATIVE, MISSING_HB_SEP,RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB,T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG,T_TooManySym_01, T_TooManySym_02,XMDateMe_00,XM_Body_Dirty_Words autolearn=disabled version=3.2.5 X-Spam-Combo: ****;For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> X-Spam-Relay-Country: XX US X-Spam-Report: * 0.6 RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB RBL: SORBS: sender is a abuseable web server * [66.81.28.31 listed in dnsbl.sorbs.net] * 2.5 MISSING_HB_SEP Missing blank line between message header and body * 0.0 T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG BODY: T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG * 0.0 BAYES_50 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 40 to 60% * [score: 0.5000] * -0.0 DCC_CHECK_NEGATIVE Not listed in DCC * [sa02 1397; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1] * 0.5 XM_Body_Dirty_Words Contains a dirty word * 0.0 T_TooManySym_01 4+ unique symbols in subject * 1.0 XMDateMe_00 Spam To Date Someone * 0.0 T_TooManySym_02 5+ unique symbols in subject Subject: Re: [Spam--!] M_Boats: research X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Thu, 07 Dec 2006 04:40:56 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on mx01.mta.xmission.com) Jerry, Thanks for consulting the group for our opinions on a possible new boat. I love my M15, as I'm sure others enjoy their M17's and M23's. At times though, we all see something we would like to change, and I hope all of our suggestions will result in a wrinkle boat that we would all love to own, as well as attracting new owners to our wrinkle boat world. I'd vote for dividing the extra length between the cockpit and cabin. The cabin should at least have seating and headroom for two people. The cabin should have some kind of rain and spray resistant ventilation. I think there should be a kick up rudder, and an end of boom sheet system to keep the cockpit more open. Make the ballast non-corrosive lead, and the centerboard lead weighted fiberglass, with a more substantial stop pin. Go with an aluminum toe rail for versatility and easier maintenance. Also, make all cockpit lockers open all the way to the hull, for more storage, and easier access to bolts and backing plates. All control lines should lead to the cockpit for easier singlehanding. If the new boat is as efficient a sailer as the other M-boats, you might also want to put an attachment point on the stern for pulling skiers. I'm looking forward to seeing whatever you come up with, and I'm sure it'll out sail anything near its size. Bill Day M-15 363, "Gee Whiz!" jerry wrote:

Thanks again for your comments; they are still coming in and keep it up! I'm leaving this afternoon for an annual canoe camping/fishing in a wilderness are in the Sierras, and when I get back I'll review them and come up with some kind of concensus and post it. Looks like we are prejudiced in the way of wrinkles, as I suspected.

For my next column for SCA I'm working on an article on small boat interiors, which ties in with all this.

jerry _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!

Jerry, Okay, I been a-thinkin’. Here it comes: Hull & Deck: From a structural standpoint; would lapstrakes impart enough longitudinal stiffness that bulkheads alone might eliminate the need for an interior pan? The old Sabre 30s (non-lapstrake) were built this way. What a blessing when it came time for a repair - not to mention the increase in storage area. No gimmicky wing keels, water ballast, bilge blades etc. - go with a hefty lead keel and lighter NACA foil centerboard (so no winch is necessary). High gunwales but no lifelines. Aluminum toe-rails are better but teak will probably sell more. No below waterline thru-hulls Lose the balsa core Lose the iron ballast Idasailor kick-up rudder - because nothing else I’ve seen compares. Rig: Fractional Sloop - because it keeps the jibs smaller and usually handles better then a masthead rig when sailed under main alone. Give the main a serious reefing system (since the majority of us don’t sail in mill ponds). Make sure the boom doesn’t hit the backstay under any circumstances (since many trailer-sailors don’t use vangs). Design the rig geometry so we can raise and lower the mast with the shrouds pre-set. Give the sail track a proper boom stop – Because slug stops stink. Give the sail track a decent mast gate – Because slug stops stink. Lose the plastic halyard cleats… …and give us sail handling hardware that’ll make us drool. Cockpit: Give it a higher, wider bridgedeck. Keep the lazarette / fuel locker big enough for a portable 3-gallon tank. Then add a sturdy cockpit table. If there’s room, it can double as a filler piece for a cockpit bunk. Add an awning with screens. The appalling drainage of the M-17 cockpit gives me the heebee- geebees considering its volume. So for God’s sake install some decent sized scuppers, and raise the sole so the darn thing drains properly. Cabin: Squeeze the M-17’s seats and headroom into the 16’s interior and give whatever’s left over to the cockpit. No galley – but leave room for a sea-swing type stove bracket in the cabin (and the cockpit). No electrical system - Have areas of smooth gelcoat on the bow and stern for suction cup mounted, battery-operated, LED running lights (but have a battery shelf roughed-in in case I change my mind) With just a few more inches up and across, the 17’s starboard quarterberth would be usable. But we don’t have a few more inches on the 16. So make it an “octo-berth” (like the 17’s port side). This would give us another cockpit locker. And… it would be great if there were room to sleep on the cabin sole (the best place to be in a bouncy anchorage). This dovetails with Tod’s dream of making the centerboard pendant tube disappear. No Jerry, I don’t have any idea of how the hell you’re supposed to do this. But it would be cool if you did. And while we’re dreaming: Positive flotation that doesn’t interfere with storage space. While you’re at it, come up with a way to provide free healthcare while lowering taxes too. And finally: The “average buyer” buys an average boat. A Montgomery sailor has clearly chosen not to be average. Jim Poulakis M-17 “Spirit” On May 18, 2009, at 9:16 AM, jerry wrote:

Thanks again for your comments; they are still coming in and keep it up! I'm leaving this afternoon for an annual canoe camping/ fishing in a wilderness are in the Sierras, and when I get back I'll review them and come up with some kind of concensus and post it. Looks like we are prejudiced in the way of wrinkles, as I suspected.

For my next column for SCA I'm working on an artical on small boat interiors, which ties in with all this.

jerry _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!