Hi Chad, thanks for the comments. The people selling the M-17 are not the owners -- the owner passed away and they are his children selling the boat. I'll ask them to check that the centerboard moves freely, although as the boat is now on a trailer this may be difficult. The boat seems to have been stored in a dry area though, with a cover on it. I get it that you had a CP-16 before the M-17. How would you compare the two boats? Was the M-17 the fantastic improvement everyone seems to be saying it is? Especially, how do you compare the build quality of the two? Mine is a 1985 CP-16 Mark 1 (no centerboard, no bowsprit), but it is in great condition, you couldn't tell this is a 23 years old boat; other boats I've looked at (Precisions in particular) all had their share of gelcoat cracking, repairs, etc., while the Compac is like new. Is this the same experience you had with the M-17? The price difference between the CP-16 and the M-17 is quite a bit, the M-17 is almost double the CP-16. When you say a better system for raising the mast, do you mean a crutch at the front with pulleys, or a similar system? With this, how long does it take you to rig? Thanks, Andrei.

I want to set the mast rake on my M-17. I have new standing rigging but need to make some major adjustments to the mast position. Do any of you more experienced sailors have some rules of thumb or specifics on setting the mast rake? Also, I have a set of four stock aluminum sheaves that Bob Eeg was kind enough to include with four slightly modified sheaves that I used for my new rope halyards. I would like to pass these four stock sheaves along to someone that can use them. Please let me know if you want them off the list at robbin.roddewig@verizon.net Thanks Robbin M-17 #056

Hi: Could somebody knowledgeable respond to these questions? I know there is a piece by Jerry about 'mast rake' on the Monty site, but I could not find anything about the level reference. Also, what is the optimum heel angle for the M17? Thanks in advance, cheers, Shawn Boles Grey Mist (M17 #276 1978) -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tim Diebert Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 6:04 AM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: Mast rake on M-17 plus free sheaves .....and I would like to add to this.....other than the water line....is there a level reference in a 17? Cockpit sole, bench seats etc? Save me getting some clear hose to level to the WL...... Tim. -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of robbin roddewig Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 5:55 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: M_Boats: Mast rake on M-17 plus free sheaves I want to set the mast rake on my M-17. I have new standing rigging but need to make some major adjustments to the mast position. Do any of you more experienced sailors have some rules of thumb or specifics on setting the mast rake? Also, I have a set of four stock aluminum sheaves that Bob Eeg was kind enough to include with four slightly modified sheaves that I used for my new rope halyards. I would like to pass these four stock sheaves along to someone that can use them. Please let me know if you want them off the list at robbin.roddewig@verizon.net Thanks Robbin M-17 #056

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From my home, to the launch ramp lot, rigged and ready to go in takes me an hour. The drive is five minutes. Unrigging takes the same time. Like Howard, I am deliberate and enjoy the whole process. To raise the mast (M17) I made a gin pole. I can raise the mast without, but feel more relaxed doing it this way. I don't use the gin pole to lower the mast. I never need help and am not sure where it would be useful anyway.

I tow with a V6 van, but am looking towards an 4 cyl. SUV/ wagon kind of rig. The Subaru Forester sounds good. The Jeep sounds good. Had a Subaru 4X wagon one back in the early 90's......what a weird little car.....but it would go anywhere. Tim ========================== -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Howard Audsley Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 4:57 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Things to look for in a used M-17 The lake where I sail has an active sailing club....boats of all kinds and sizes, but my M17 is one of the smaller ones. We had a group event a few years ago and someone with a Compac 16 showed up as a guest. We did a group sail to a destination about 10 miles off. To keep the fleet together, they sent the two of us smaller boats off first. I led the fleet the whole way, the bigger 30 footers finally caught up with me in the open water near the end of the run. The entire fleet passed him, later to send somebody back to tow him up to where I was (by motor), where the entire fleet passed him again. He eventually made it. Don't know if it was the boat or the skipper, but it wasn't a good showing. As for rigging the boat, I'm slow.....errrr....deliberate, and it seldom takes me more than an hour to rig and launch from the time I hit the lot with the mast down. Single handed. Raising and lowering the mast is the single biggest job, and there are tricks to help with that. I've never owned an M15, but have been on a couple. They are a sailing dream. Easy to tack, point well and are very fast. For only 2 feet difference in length, the size difference is remarkable. If you hop off one onto the other, you certainly notice it. Not better or worse, just different. Howard On Jun 4, 2008, at 2:22 PM, Andrei Caldararu wrote:

Hi Chad,

thanks for the comments. The people selling the M-17 are not the owners -- the owner passed away and they are his children selling the boat. I'll ask them to check that the centerboard moves freely, although as the boat is now on a trailer this may be difficult. The boat seems to have been stored in a dry area though, with a cover on it.

I get it that you had a CP-16 before the M-17. How would you compare the two boats? Was the M-17 the fantastic improvement everyone seems to be saying it is? Especially, how do you compare the build quality of the two? Mine is a 1985 CP-16 Mark 1 (no centerboard, no bowsprit), but it is in great condition, you couldn't tell this is a 23 years old boat; other boats I've looked at (Precisions in particular) all had their share of gelcoat cracking, repairs, etc., while the Compac is like new. Is this the same experience you had with the M-17? The price difference between the CP-16 and the M-17 is quite a bit, the M-17 is almost double the CP-16.

When you say a better system for raising the mast, do you mean a crutch at the front with pulleys, or a similar system? With this, how long does it take you to rig?

Thanks,

Andrei.

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Hi Andrei, i haven't been reading the previous posts but i can rig my M17 in less than 30 minutes by myself. And i can single hand her rather easily and i am not even an "old salt" ... but i am old (51). I would guess i could rig her on my own for at least the next five years (if i keep her... i am seriously thinking of parting with her... first $4500 takes her ... Sacramento area... sorry about the impromptu sales pitch). Jeff M17 Hull #336 Andrei Caldararu <andreic@math.wisc.edu> wrote: Hello all, from what I hear from everyone, it seems like the M-17 is a bit too hard to single handedly rig and launch in a short time: I understand I should expect 45 minutes to rig/derig, and need two people. I would have liked to be on the water in 20-30 minutes, alone. Is the M-15 better in this respect? And, perhaps more importantly, how can one find a good condition M-15 in the midwest? (I am in Wisconsin, but I am willing to travel within 250 miles of here.) Thanks, Andrei. _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

Andrei: I'm not willing to part with my M-17, but I'd be happy to show her to you and, if the weather cooperates, take you on a test sail. Gordon 1983 M-17 "Sapphire" Milwaukee On Jun 4, 2008, at 4:09 PM, Andrei Caldararu wrote:

Too bad Sacramento is even farther away than Utah.... Nobody in the Midwest willing to part with an M-15 or M-17?

Andrei.

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Andrei, It's kind of a non sequitor, but Tom's post reminds me of one of the problems when rigging the boat. It's the dogon people who want to talk about a Montgomery. They think that the boat is the neatest thing they have seen. Steve On Jun 4, 2008, at 2:48 PM, Tom Smith wrote:

Back to your original question, yes, the M15 is significantly easier to travel with and rig than the M17. If I was traveling a lot to different sailing locations and not spending a lot of time at any of them, the M15 (in my opinion) is a better idea.

But I would also argue with the idea that it's important to be able to do put up the rig and launch an M17 in 30 minutes. Why not enjoy the process as an extension of the sailing experience? And it can be made easy--much easier than lifting the mast by yourself and walking it up and all that. A couple simple lifting aids and the single hander's mast can go up and down in a very slow, controlled way.

Rigging our M17 takes an hour or more, but it's a leisurely, stress-free experience (which I'm sure the 30 minute drill is as well, but I'm into long bike rides, thick books, old scotch, etc.) punctuated by frequent beer breaks, girl watching, and general gazing into space.

t

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Andrei, Whether you need to people to rig (or alternatively more gear) depends on yourself. I have no trouble raising the mast myself without help or winching it. As to the time, that varies a lot from person to person too and goodness knows I'm at the slow end of the spectrum so 45 minutes would be a good time for me. I'll bet there are people who could make the 30 minute mark, though. Tod Mills M17 #408, 1987 galley model BuscaBrisas -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Andrei Caldararu Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 4:58 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: M_Boats: Perhaps the M-17 is not for me... M-15? Hello all, from what I hear from everyone, it seems like the M-17 is a bit too hard to single handedly rig and launch in a short time: I understand I should expect 45 minutes to rig/derig, and need two people. I would have liked to be on the water in 20-30 minutes, alone. Is the M-15 better in this respect? And, perhaps more importantly, how can one find a good condition M-15 in the midwest? (I am in Wisconsin, but I am willing to travel within 250 miles of here.) Thanks, Andrei. _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.4/1476 - Release Date: 5/31/2008 12:25 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.4/1476 - Release Date: 5/31/2008 12:25 PM

Andrei, I have a 2007 M15 in Northern Indiana, about two hours out of Chicago. It will transported to our new home in Houston in the next couple of months. You are welcome to come and look at it if interested. Not really interested in selling it, unless you wanted to pay nearly new price so I can buy a M17 from Bob to put on the Gulf. joe moore Andrei Caldararu wrote:

Hello all,

from what I hear from everyone, it seems like the M-17 is a bit too hard to single handedly rig and launch in a short time: I understand I should expect 45 minutes to rig/derig, and need two people. I would have liked to be on the water in 20-30 minutes, alone. Is the M-15 better in this respect?

And, perhaps more importantly, how can one find a good condition M-15 in the midwest? (I am in Wisconsin, but I am willing to travel within 250 miles of here.)

Thanks,

Andrei.

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It is easer to rig the 17 with out my kids help than with it. I would not pas up a 17 because of set up time or efort. I live in Superior, WI if you can make it here I will take you saling. Dale -----Original Message----- From: Andrei Caldararu <andreic@math.wisc.edu> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 3:58 pm Subject: M_Boats: Perhaps the M-17 is not for me... M-15? Hello all, from what I hear from everyone, it seems like the M-17 is a bit too hard to single handedly rig and launch in a short time: I understand I should expect 45 minutes to rig/derig, and need two people. I would have liked to be on the water in 20-30 minutes, alone. Is the M-15 better in this respect? And, perhaps more importantly, how can one find a good condition M-15 in the midwest? (I am in Wisconsin, but I am willing to travel within 250 miles of here.) Thanks, Andrei. _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats