Hi gang, I am usually too busy under such conditions, but I noticed that the lower lee shrouds on my M17 show a little slack when I beat to weather at wind speeds over 25 knots. I am reluctant to start a tightening regime because the shrouds are just loose enough for me to raise and lower the mast without loosening and tightening the turnbuckles each cycle. Should I be concerned with the situation? Can one expect some permanent stretching of the shrouds with use? Will the presumed slight bowing of the mast to leeward be a problem? Thanks in advance for your comments. Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
Tom: SWEET PEA's, my M17, lee shrouds (upper and lower) are loose when going to weather ... when blowing a lot less than 25. i have shrouds just loose enough that i can get the mast up and down without adjustment (i just adjust the backstay). the lowers should be a bit looser than the uppers. i have a video that Eldor (aka, 1/2 of the good ship MOTU ITI) helped me make last summer. about 35 seconds showing how 'snug' (Jerry's term) the shrouds are on SWEET PEA. i'll upload the vid to youTube this evening and share the link. :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com --- On Tue, 2/26/13, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Hi gang, I am usually too busy under such conditions, but I noticed that the lower lee shrouds on my M17 show a little slack when I beat to weather at wind speeds over 25 knots. I am reluctant to start a tightening regime because the shrouds are just loose enough for me to raise and lower the mast without loosening and tightening the turnbuckles each cycle. Should I be concerned with the situation? Can one expect some permanent stretching of the shrouds with use? Will the presumed slight bowing of the mast to leeward be a problem?
Thanks in advance for your comments.
Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
Dave, I noticed the email in which you mentioned a youTube video on shroud adjustment, but couldn't find it on youTube. If you did upload it, could you pass on the link? Since the only advice I've heard on M-17 shroud tensioning is "snug, but not tight", I'd like to find some way of figuring out what's snug and what's tight. Thanks, Rick M-17 #633 Lynne L On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 7:12 PM, W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> wrote:
Tom:
SWEET PEA's, my M17, lee shrouds (upper and lower) are loose when going to weather ... when blowing a lot less than 25.
i have shrouds just loose enough that i can get the mast up and down without adjustment (i just adjust the backstay).
the lowers should be a bit looser than the uppers.
i have a video that Eldor (aka, 1/2 of the good ship MOTU ITI) helped me make last summer. about 35 seconds showing how 'snug' (Jerry's term) the shrouds are on SWEET PEA. i'll upload the vid to youTube this evening and share the link.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Tue, 2/26/13, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Hi gang, I am usually too busy under such conditions, but I noticed that the lower lee shrouds on my M17 show a little slack when I beat to weather at wind speeds over 25 knots. I am reluctant to start a tightening regime because the shrouds are just loose enough for me to raise and lower the mast without loosening and tightening the turnbuckles each cycle. Should I be concerned with the situation? Can one expect some permanent stretching of the shrouds with use? Will the presumed slight bowing of the mast to leeward be a problem?
Thanks in advance for your comments.
Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
I too had problems "figuring out what's snug and what's tight" so I went with the advice to use the Loos. They're expensive ($75) but now I realize that what I thought was tight was terribly loose. Joe SeaFrog ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Davies To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 10:18 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Shroud tension Dave, I noticed the email in which you mentioned a youTube video on shroud adjustment, but couldn't find it on youTube. If you did upload it, could you pass on the link? Since the only advice I've heard on M-17 shroud tensioning is "snug, but not tight", I'd like to find some way of figuring out what's snug and what's tight. Thanks, Rick M-17 #633 Lynne L On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 7:12 PM, W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> wrote:
Tom:
SWEET PEA's, my M17, lee shrouds (upper and lower) are loose when going to weather ... when blowing a lot less than 25.
i have shrouds just loose enough that i can get the mast up and down without adjustment (i just adjust the backstay).
the lowers should be a bit looser than the uppers.
i have a video that Eldor (aka, 1/2 of the good ship MOTU ITI) helped me make last summer. about 35 seconds showing how 'snug' (Jerry's term) the shrouds are on SWEET PEA. i'll upload the vid to youTube this evening and share the link.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Tue, 2/26/13, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Hi gang, I am usually too busy under such conditions, but I noticed that the lower lee shrouds on my M17 show a little slack when I beat to weather at wind speeds over 25 knots. I am reluctant to start a tightening regime because the shrouds are just loose enough for me to raise and lower the mast without loosening and tightening the turnbuckles each cycle. Should I be concerned with the situation? Can one expect some permanent stretching of the shrouds with use? Will the presumed slight bowing of the mast to leeward be a problem?
Thanks in advance for your comments.
Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
This information might be helpful to the discussion: http://msog.org/how-to/mastrake.cfm On Mar 5, 2013, at 9:40 AM, Joe Murphy wrote:
I too had problems "figuring out what's snug and what's tight" so I went with the advice to use the Loos. They're expensive ($75) but now I realize that what I thought was tight was terribly loose. Joe SeaFrog
----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Davies To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 10:18 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Shroud tension
Dave,
I noticed the email in which you mentioned a youTube video on shroud adjustment, but couldn't find it on youTube. If you did upload it, could you pass on the link? Since the only advice I've heard on M-17 shroud tensioning is "snug, but not tight", I'd like to find some way of figuring out what's snug and what's tight.
Thanks,
Rick M-17 #633 Lynne L
On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 7:12 PM, W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> wrote:
Tom:
SWEET PEA's, my M17, lee shrouds (upper and lower) are loose when going to weather ... when blowing a lot less than 25.
i have shrouds just loose enough that i can get the mast up and down without adjustment (i just adjust the backstay).
the lowers should be a bit looser than the uppers.
i have a video that Eldor (aka, 1/2 of the good ship MOTU ITI) helped me make last summer. about 35 seconds showing how 'snug' (Jerry's term) the shrouds are on SWEET PEA. i'll upload the vid to youTube this evening and share the link.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Tue, 2/26/13, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Hi gang, I am usually too busy under such conditions, but I noticed that the lower lee shrouds on my M17 show a little slack when I beat to weather at wind speeds over 25 knots. I am reluctant to start a tightening regime because the shrouds are just loose enough for me to raise and lower the mast without loosening and tightening the turnbuckles each cycle. Should I be concerned with the situation? Can one expect some permanent stretching of the shrouds with use? Will the presumed slight bowing of the mast to leeward be a problem?
Thanks in advance for your comments.
Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
Tom, I follow the recommendations in a video produced by Brian Toss of Port Townsend. His numbers are consistent with those that appear on the Loos web site. I use a Loos gauge to measure the tension. I've been using the following numbers for several years with good results. Lower Shroud 10% of breaking strength (210 lbs) 25 on Loos gauge Upper Shroud 15% of breaking strength ( 315 lbs) 32 on Loos gauge Forestay 12% of breaking strength ( 396 lbs) 41 on Loos gauge Backstay 15% of breaking strength ( 315 lbs) 32 on Loos gauge This assumes that the forestay is 5/32 and all the rest are 1/8 Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jenkins Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 5:27 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: M_Boats: Shroud tension Hi gang, I am usually too busy under such conditions, but I noticed that the lower lee shrouds on my M17 show a little slack when I beat to weather at wind speeds over 25 knots. I am reluctant to start a tightening regime because the shrouds are just loose enough for me to raise and lower the mast without loosening and tightening the turnbuckles each cycle. Should I be concerned with the situation? Can one expect some permanent stretching of the shrouds with use? Will the presumed slight bowing of the mast to leeward be a problem? Thanks in advance for your comments. Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
Thanks, Rich. I think I have my gauge sitting around someplace, and I will check it out. Tom Jenkins M17 #626 Scintilla On Mar 1, 2013, at 9:59 AM, Rich Makela wrote:
Tom,
I follow the recommendations in a video produced by Brian Toss of Port Townsend. His numbers are consistent with those that appear on the Loos web site. I use a Loos gauge to measure the tension. I've been using the following numbers for several years with good results.
Lower Shroud 10% of breaking strength (210 lbs) 25 on Loos gauge Upper Shroud 15% of breaking strength ( 315 lbs) 32 on Loos gauge Forestay 12% of breaking strength ( 396 lbs) 41 on Loos gauge Backstay 15% of breaking strength ( 315 lbs) 32 on Loos gauge
This assumes that the forestay is 5/32 and all the rest are 1/8
Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jenkins Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 5:27 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: M_Boats: Shroud tension
Hi gang, I am usually too busy under such conditions, but I noticed that the lower lee shrouds on my M17 show a little slack when I beat to weather at wind speeds over 25 knots. I am reluctant to start a tightening regime because the shrouds are just loose enough for me to raise and lower the mast without loosening and tightening the turnbuckles each cycle. Should I be concerned with the situation? Can one expect some permanent stretching of the shrouds with use? Will the presumed slight bowing of the mast to leeward be a problem?
Thanks in advance for your comments.
Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
I followed these same instructions. I couldn't believe how much slop it took out of the stays and shrouds. It doesn't affect raising and lowering the mast since I rounded out the aft corners of the mast base. Joe SeaFrog----- Original Message ----- From: Rich Makela To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 12:59 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Shroud tension Tom, I follow the recommendations in a video produced by Brian Toss of Port Townsend. His numbers are consistent with those that appear on the Loos web site. I use a Loos gauge to measure the tension. I've been using the following numbers for several years with good results. Lower Shroud 10% of breaking strength (210 lbs) 25 on Loos gauge Upper Shroud 15% of breaking strength ( 315 lbs) 32 on Loos gauge Forestay 12% of breaking strength ( 396 lbs) 41 on Loos gauge Backstay 15% of breaking strength ( 315 lbs) 32 on Loos gauge This assumes that the forestay is 5/32 and all the rest are 1/8 Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jenkins Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 5:27 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: M_Boats: Shroud tension Hi gang, I am usually too busy under such conditions, but I noticed that the lower lee shrouds on my M17 show a little slack when I beat to weather at wind speeds over 25 knots. I am reluctant to start a tightening regime because the shrouds are just loose enough for me to raise and lower the mast without loosening and tightening the turnbuckles each cycle. Should I be concerned with the situation? Can one expect some permanent stretching of the shrouds with use? Will the presumed slight bowing of the mast to leeward be a problem? Thanks in advance for your comments. Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
Joe, I'm glad it helped. Brion Toss knows what he's doing. The video is titled Tuning Your Rig, and I recommend it. I don't even remember how I came by it, but it's available at http://www.briontoss.com/catalog/videos.html . Rich -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Joe Murphy Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 3:53 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Shroud tension I followed these same instructions. I couldn't believe how much slop it took out of the stays and shrouds. It doesn't affect raising and lowering the mast since I rounded out the aft corners of the mast base. Joe SeaFrog----- Original Message ----- From: Rich Makela To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 12:59 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Shroud tension Tom, I follow the recommendations in a video produced by Brian Toss of Port Townsend. His numbers are consistent with those that appear on the Loos web site. I use a Loos gauge to measure the tension. I've been using the following numbers for several years with good results. Lower Shroud 10% of breaking strength (210 lbs) 25 on Loos gauge Upper Shroud 15% of breaking strength ( 315 lbs) 32 on Loos gauge Forestay 12% of breaking strength ( 396 lbs) 41 on Loos gauge Backstay 15% of breaking strength ( 315 lbs) 32 on Loos gauge This assumes that the forestay is 5/32 and all the rest are 1/8 Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jenkins Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 5:27 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: M_Boats: Shroud tension Hi gang, I am usually too busy under such conditions, but I noticed that the lower lee shrouds on my M17 show a little slack when I beat to weather at wind speeds over 25 knots. I am reluctant to start a tightening regime because the shrouds are just loose enough for me to raise and lower the mast without loosening and tightening the turnbuckles each cycle. Should I be concerned with the situation? Can one expect some permanent stretching of the shrouds with use? Will the presumed slight bowing of the mast to leeward be a problem? Thanks in advance for your comments. Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
Hi Rich, This is an excellent cross reference. Too bad I sold my Loos just last year at a nautical flea market here In Rockport, Tx. Of course back then I didn't think I would ever need it again. Oh well. Also sold my Brian Toss fid for making eyes in double lay poly or dacron line. When will I learn not to sell ANYTHING. After all "he who dies with the most toys wins". Tom B On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 11:59 AM, Rich Makela <richmak@makelaperformance.com>wrote:
Tom,
I follow the recommendations in a video produced by Brian Toss of Port Townsend. His numbers are consistent with those that appear on the Loos web site. I use a Loos gauge to measure the tension. I've been using the following numbers for several years with good results.
Lower Shroud 10% of breaking strength (210 lbs) 25 on Loos gauge Upper Shroud 15% of breaking strength ( 315 lbs) 32 on Loos gauge Forestay 12% of breaking strength ( 396 lbs) 41 on Loos gauge Backstay 15% of breaking strength ( 315 lbs) 32 on Loos gauge
This assumes that the forestay is 5/32 and all the rest are 1/8
Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jenkins Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 5:27 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: M_Boats: Shroud tension
Hi gang, I am usually too busy under such conditions, but I noticed that the lower lee shrouds on my M17 show a little slack when I beat to weather at wind speeds over 25 knots. I am reluctant to start a tightening regime because the shrouds are just loose enough for me to raise and lower the mast without loosening and tightening the turnbuckles each cycle. Should I be concerned with the situation? Can one expect some permanent stretching of the shrouds with use? Will the presumed slight bowing of the mast to leeward be a problem?
Thanks in advance for your comments.
Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
For a trailer sailer, 1296 lbs of tension on this size rig seems excessive to me. I tune the rig by sailing and tweaking all the slack out when sailing hard on both tacks. The only tedous part is making sure the mast is plumb. -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sat, Mar 2, 2013 11:22 am Subject: Re: M_Boats: Shroud tension Hi Rich, This is an excellent cross reference. Too bad I sold my Loos just last year at a nautical flea market here In Rockport, Tx. Of course back then I didn't think I would ever need it again. Oh well. Also sold my Brian Toss fid for making eyes in double lay poly or dacron line. When will I learn not to sell ANYTHING. After all "he who dies with the most toys wins". Tom B On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 11:59 AM, Rich Makela <richmak@makelaperformance.com>wrote:
Tom,
I follow the recommendations in a video produced by Brian Toss of Port Townsend. His numbers are consistent with those that appear on the Loos web site. I use a Loos gauge to measure the tension. I've been using the following numbers for several years with good results.
Lower Shroud 10% of breaking strength (210 lbs) 25 on Loos gauge Upper Shroud 15% of breaking strength ( 315 lbs) 32 on Loos gauge Forestay 12% of breaking strength ( 396 lbs) 41 on Loos gauge Backstay 15% of breaking strength ( 315 lbs) 32 on Loos gauge
This assumes that the forestay is 5/32 and all the rest are 1/8
Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jenkins Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 5:27 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: M_Boats: Shroud tension
Hi gang, I am usually too busy under such conditions, but I noticed that the lower lee shrouds on my M17 show a little slack when I beat to weather at wind speeds over 25 knots. I am reluctant to start a tightening regime because the shrouds are just loose enough for me to raise and lower the mast without loosening and tightening the turnbuckles each cycle. Should I be concerned with the situation? Can one expect some permanent stretching of the shrouds with use? Will the presumed slight bowing of the mast to leeward be a problem?
Thanks in advance for your comments.
Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
participants (8)
-
Howard Audsley -
Joe Murphy -
Rich Makela -
Rick Davies -
Thomas Buzzi -
Tom Jenkins -
W David Scobie -
Wcpritchett