i'm trying to decide whether to install the nifty TillerClutch, from WaveFront, on my m-17. it's a beautifully made piece of gear. but in the past, i've used similar devices and they failed to hold the boat on course. not even close, even though they were properly installed. it's not that the clutch slipped; it's that the boat's balance seemed to be thrown off too much by my moving around. i plan to add a raymarine st1000+ autopilot soon, and my thinking was that that would maintain a good course despite my movements, since it corrects itself to hold a set heading. i was thinking i'd just use the autopilot rather than the tiller clutch. but then again, the autopilot uses up power, while the clutch does not. does anyone have experience using the clutch, the autopilot, or both? if both, when do you use one and when the other? thanks for your thoughts. dan -- Dan Richman DanielARichman@gmail.com 5039 View Road Langley, WA 98260 USA Home: 360-221-6216 Cell: 360-949-3234
I loved the autopilots on my other (bigger) boats but this time around I went with the TillerClutch. I guess it depends on your sailing philosophy and how your Monty is set up. My Spirit is a minimalist M-17 without batteries, or any electrical system at all. An autopilot would have been the only thing aboard that required a deep cycle battery. I don't have a performance report on the TillerClutch because I just installed it. It is obviously a well made piece of hardware. Lashing the tiller holds Spirit on a fairly straight course in moderate seas (make course adjustments by scooting around the cockpit) but if you go forward to drop the jib expect the boat to take off on a great circle route . Bottom line is that comparing a TillerClutch to an autopilot isn't really fair. They really do two different things. If you want something to hold a steady course while you go below to make lunch then an autopilot is probably your best bet. Me? I just scoot around my boat a lot. Jim M17 "Spirit" (c. 2007) On Apr 10, 2013, at 3:04 PM, Dan Richman <danielarichman@gmail.com> wrote:
i'm trying to decide whether to install the nifty TillerClutch, from WaveFront, on my m-17. it's a beautifully made piece of gear. but in the past, i've used similar devices and they failed to hold the boat on course. not even close, even though they were properly installed. it's not that the clutch slipped; it's that the boat's balance seemed to be thrown off too much by my moving around.
i plan to add a raymarine st1000+ autopilot soon, and my thinking was that that would maintain a good course despite my movements, since it corrects itself to hold a set heading. i was thinking i'd just use the autopilot rather than the tiller clutch.
but then again, the autopilot uses up power, while the clutch does not.
does anyone have experience using the clutch, the autopilot, or both? if both, when do you use one and when the other?
thanks for your thoughts.
dan
-- Dan Richman DanielARichman@gmail.com 5039 View Road Langley, WA 98260 USA Home: 360-221-6216
Cell: 360-949-3234
I imagine that when you want to go below to make lunch it might be better to heave-to with the sails adjusted so you can lash the tiller against the cockpit coaming. If you are lashing the tiller to go forward, consider that it might be best to use a furler on so light a boat, and stay in the cockpit. I picked up a simple tiller-lashing trick on the internet that consists of a line from the starboard stern cleat, thence to the tiller with about three wraps around the stick (do not cross the loops), and then to the port stern cleat. If you get the length right, you can slip the wraps back to the stern and steer, and to secure the tiller you slip the wraps forward and they will jam and hold the tiller. For a boat like the 17 that doesn't track well when you are jumping around, this simple trick seems to hold my boat as steady as a clutch, with no holes drilled and nothing to hit your hand on. Tom M17 Scintilla (2004) On Apr 10, 2013, at 3:40 PM, James Poulakis wrote:
I loved the autopilots on my other (bigger) boats but this time around I went with the TillerClutch. I guess it depends on your sailing philosophy and how your Monty is set up. My Spirit is a minimalist M-17 without batteries, or any electrical system at all. An autopilot would have been the only thing aboard that required a deep cycle battery.
I don't have a performance report on the TillerClutch because I just installed it. It is obviously a well made piece of hardware. Lashing the tiller holds Spirit on a fairly straight course in moderate seas (make course adjustments by scooting around the cockpit) but if you go forward to drop the jib expect the boat to take off on a great circle route . Bottom line is that comparing a TillerClutch to an autopilot isn't really fair. They really do two different things. If you want something to hold a steady course while you go below to make lunch then an autopilot is probably your best bet. Me? I just scoot around my boat a lot.
Jim M17 "Spirit" (c. 2007)
On Apr 10, 2013, at 3:04 PM, Dan Richman <danielarichman@gmail.com> wrote:
i'm trying to decide whether to install the nifty TillerClutch, from WaveFront, on my m-17. it's a beautifully made piece of gear. but in the past, i've used similar devices and they failed to hold the boat on course. not even close, even though they were properly installed. it's not that the clutch slipped; it's that the boat's balance seemed to be thrown off too much by my moving around.
i plan to add a raymarine st1000+ autopilot soon, and my thinking was that that would maintain a good course despite my movements, since it corrects itself to hold a set heading. i was thinking i'd just use the autopilot rather than the tiller clutch.
but then again, the autopilot uses up power, while the clutch does not.
does anyone have experience using the clutch, the autopilot, or both? if both, when do you use one and when the other?
thanks for your thoughts.
dan
-- Dan Richman DanielARichman@gmail.com 5039 View Road Langley, WA 98260 USA Home: 360-221-6216
Cell: 360-949-3234
How does the M17 heave to anyway? I've sailed mine for six years now and have never seriously attempted it. I find that there's too much chafing and bumping involved. How would you guys do it in the typical 25 knot winds and San Francisco chop? Board up? Board down? Reefs? Jim M17 "Spirit" (c. 2007) On Apr 10, 2013, at 4:23 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
I imagine that when you want to go below to make lunch it might be better to heave-to with the sails adjusted so you can lash the tiller against the cockpit coaming. If you are lashing the tiller to go forward, consider that it might be best to use a furler on so light a boat, and stay in the cockpit.
I picked up a simple tiller-lashing trick on the internet that consists of a line from the starboard stern cleat, thence to the tiller with about three wraps around the stick (do not cross the loops), and then to the port stern cleat. If you get the length right, you can slip the wraps back to the stern and steer, and to secure the tiller you slip the wraps forward and they will jam and hold the tiller. For a boat like the 17 that doesn't track well when you are jumping around, this simple trick seems to hold my boat as steady as a clutch, with no holes drilled and nothing to hit your hand on.
Tom M17 Scintilla (2004)
On Apr 10, 2013, at 3:40 PM, James Poulakis wrote:
I loved the autopilots on my other (bigger) boats but this time around I went with the TillerClutch. I guess it depends on your sailing philosophy and how your Monty is set up. My Spirit is a minimalist M-17 without batteries, or any electrical system at all. An autopilot would have been the only thing aboard that required a deep cycle battery.
I don't have a performance report on the TillerClutch because I just installed it. It is obviously a well made piece of hardware. Lashing the tiller holds Spirit on a fairly straight course in moderate seas (make course adjustments by scooting around the cockpit) but if you go forward to drop the jib expect the boat to take off on a great circle route . Bottom line is that comparing a TillerClutch to an autopilot isn't really fair. They really do two different things. If you want something to hold a steady course while you go below to make lunch then an autopilot is probably your best bet. Me? I just scoot around my boat a lot.
Jim M17 "Spirit" (c. 2007)
On Apr 10, 2013, at 3:04 PM, Dan Richman <danielarichman@gmail.com> wrote:
i'm trying to decide whether to install the nifty TillerClutch, from WaveFront, on my m-17. it's a beautifully made piece of gear. but in the past, i've used similar devices and they failed to hold the boat on course. not even close, even though they were properly installed. it's not that the clutch slipped; it's that the boat's balance seemed to be thrown off too much by my moving around.
i plan to add a raymarine st1000+ autopilot soon, and my thinking was that that would maintain a good course despite my movements, since it corrects itself to hold a set heading. i was thinking i'd just use the autopilot rather than the tiller clutch.
but then again, the autopilot uses up power, while the clutch does not.
does anyone have experience using the clutch, the autopilot, or both? if both, when do you use one and when the other?
thanks for your thoughts.
dan
-- Dan Richman DanielARichman@gmail.com 5039 View Road Langley, WA 98260 USA Home: 360-221-6216
Cell: 360-949-3234
board down; adjust jib trim and tiller to hold the heave to. Works well in strong wind when needing to reef the main and no shelter is handy. --Gary On Apr 10, 2013, at 4:58 PM, James Poulakis <picfo@comcast.net> wrote:
How does the M17 heave to anyway? I've sailed mine for six years now and have never seriously attempted it. I find that there's too much chafing and bumping involved. How would you guys do it in the typical 25 knot winds and San Francisco chop? Board up? Board down? Reefs?
Jim M17 "Spirit" (c. 2007)
On Apr 10, 2013, at 4:23 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
I imagine that when you want to go below to make lunch it might be better to heave-to with the sails adjusted so you can lash the tiller against the cockpit coaming. If you are lashing the tiller to go forward, consider that it might be best to use a furler on so light a boat, and stay in the cockpit.
I picked up a simple tiller-lashing trick on the internet that consists of a line from the starboard stern cleat, thence to the tiller with about three wraps around the stick (do not cross the loops), and then to the port stern cleat. If you get the length right, you can slip the wraps back to the stern and steer, and to secure the tiller you slip the wraps forward and they will jam and hold the tiller. For a boat like the 17 that doesn't track well when you are jumping around, this simple trick seems to hold my boat as steady as a clutch, with no holes drilled and nothing to hit your hand on.
Tom M17 Scintilla (2004)
On Apr 10, 2013, at 3:40 PM, James Poulakis wrote:
I loved the autopilots on my other (bigger) boats but this time around I went with the TillerClutch. I guess it depends on your sailing philosophy and how your Monty is set up. My Spirit is a minimalist M-17 without batteries, or any electrical system at all. An autopilot would have been the only thing aboard that required a deep cycle battery.
I don't have a performance report on the TillerClutch because I just installed it. It is obviously a well made piece of hardware. Lashing the tiller holds Spirit on a fairly straight course in moderate seas (make course adjustments by scooting around the cockpit) but if you go forward to drop the jib expect the boat to take off on a great circle route . Bottom line is that comparing a TillerClutch to an autopilot isn't really fair. They really do two different things. If you want something to hold a steady course while you go below to make lunch then an autopilot is probably your best bet. Me? I just scoot around my boat a lot.
Jim M17 "Spirit" (c. 2007)
On Apr 10, 2013, at 3:04 PM, Dan Richman <danielarichman@gmail.com> wrote:
i'm trying to decide whether to install the nifty TillerClutch, from WaveFront, on my m-17. it's a beautifully made piece of gear. but in the past, i've used similar devices and they failed to hold the boat on course. not even close, even though they were properly installed. it's not that the clutch slipped; it's that the boat's balance seemed to be thrown off too much by my moving around.
i plan to add a raymarine st1000+ autopilot soon, and my thinking was that that would maintain a good course despite my movements, since it corrects itself to hold a set heading. i was thinking i'd just use the autopilot rather than the tiller clutch.
but then again, the autopilot uses up power, while the clutch does not.
does anyone have experience using the clutch, the autopilot, or both? if both, when do you use one and when the other?
thanks for your thoughts.
dan
-- Dan Richman DanielARichman@gmail.com 5039 View Road Langley, WA 98260 USA Home: 360-221-6216
Cell: 360-949-3234
Does the boat lay in the classic close-reaching position or does she settle in more broadside? On Apr 10, 2013, at 7:32 PM, GARY M HYDE <gmhyde1@mac.com> wrote:
board down; adjust jib trim and tiller to hold the heave to. Works well in strong wind when needing to reef the main and no shelter is handy. --Gary On Apr 10, 2013, at 4:58 PM, James Poulakis <picfo@comcast.net> wrote:
How does the M17 heave to anyway? I've sailed mine for six years now and have never seriously attempted it. I find that there's too much chafing and bumping involved. How would you guys do it in the typical 25 knot winds and San Francisco chop? Board up? Board down? Reefs?
Jim M17 "Spirit" (c. 2007)
On Apr 10, 2013, at 4:23 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
I imagine that when you want to go below to make lunch it might be better to heave-to with the sails adjusted so you can lash the tiller against the cockpit coaming. If you are lashing the tiller to go forward, consider that it might be best to use a furler on so light a boat, and stay in the cockpit.
I picked up a simple tiller-lashing trick on the internet that consists of a line from the starboard stern cleat, thence to the tiller with about three wraps around the stick (do not cross the loops), and then to the port stern cleat. If you get the length right, you can slip the wraps back to the stern and steer, and to secure the tiller you slip the wraps forward and they will jam and hold the tiller. For a boat like the 17 that doesn't track well when you are jumping around, this simple trick seems to hold my boat as steady as a clutch, with no holes drilled and nothing to hit your hand on.
Tom M17 Scintilla (2004)
On Apr 10, 2013, at 3:40 PM, James Poulakis wrote:
I loved the autopilots on my other (bigger) boats but this time around I went with the TillerClutch. I guess it depends on your sailing philosophy and how your Monty is set up. My Spirit is a minimalist M-17 without batteries, or any electrical system at all. An autopilot would have been the only thing aboard that required a deep cycle battery.
I don't have a performance report on the TillerClutch because I just installed it. It is obviously a well made piece of hardware. Lashing the tiller holds Spirit on a fairly straight course in moderate seas (make course adjustments by scooting around the cockpit) but if you go forward to drop the jib expect the boat to take off on a great circle route . Bottom line is that comparing a TillerClutch to an autopilot isn't really fair. They really do two different things. If you want something to hold a steady course while you go below to make lunch then an autopilot is probably your best bet. Me? I just scoot around my boat a lot.
Jim M17 "Spirit" (c. 2007)
On Apr 10, 2013, at 3:04 PM, Dan Richman <danielarichman@gmail.com> wrote:
i'm trying to decide whether to install the nifty TillerClutch, from WaveFront, on my m-17. it's a beautifully made piece of gear. but in the past, i've used similar devices and they failed to hold the boat on course. not even close, even though they were properly installed. it's not that the clutch slipped; it's that the boat's balance seemed to be thrown off too much by my moving around.
i plan to add a raymarine st1000+ autopilot soon, and my thinking was that that would maintain a good course despite my movements, since it corrects itself to hold a set heading. i was thinking i'd just use the autopilot rather than the tiller clutch.
but then again, the autopilot uses up power, while the clutch does not.
does anyone have experience using the clutch, the autopilot, or both? if both, when do you use one and when the other?
thanks for your thoughts.
dan
-- Dan Richman DanielARichman@gmail.com 5039 View Road Langley, WA 98260 USA Home: 360-221-6216
Cell: 360-949-3234
I've found she rides easiest with the genoa rolled down to 100% or less, sheeted tight and backed. I've never tried heaving to with the full 135%, but I'd guess she'd heel pretty far in a good breeze. The boom's over the quarter and the tiller's lashed down. The wind wanders somewhere between a close reach and abeam, but I wouldn't think it favors either one. Rick M17 #633 Lynne L On Thursday, April 11, 2013, James Poulakis wrote:
Does the boat lay in the classic close-reaching position or does she settle in more broadside?
On Apr 10, 2013, at 7:32 PM, GARY M HYDE <gmhyde1@mac.com> wrote:
board down; adjust jib trim and tiller to hold the heave to. Works well in strong wind when needing to reef the main and no shelter is handy. --Gary On Apr 10, 2013, at 4:58 PM, James Poulakis <picfo@comcast.net> wrote:
How does the M17 heave to anyway? I've sailed mine for six years now and have never seriously attempted it. I find that there's too much chafing and bumping involved. How would you guys do it in the typical 25 knot winds and San Francisco chop? Board up? Board down? Reefs?
Jim M17 "Spirit" (c. 2007)
On Apr 10, 2013, at 4:23 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
I imagine that when you want to go below to make lunch it might be better to heave-to with the sails adjusted so you can lash the tiller against the cockpit coaming. If you are lashing the tiller to go forward, consider that it might be best to use a furler on so light a boat, and stay in the cockpit.
I picked up a simple tiller-lashing trick on the internet that consists of a line from the starboard stern cleat, thence to the tiller with about three wraps around the stick (do not cross the loops), and then to the port stern cleat. If you get the length right, you can slip the wraps back to the stern and steer, and to secure the tiller you slip the wraps forward and they will jam and hold the tiller. For a boat like the 17 that doesn't track well when you are jumping around, this simple trick seems to hold my boat as steady as a clutch, with no holes drilled and nothing to hit your hand on.
Tom M17 Scintilla (2004)
On Apr 10, 2013, at 3:40 PM, James Poulakis wrote:
I loved the autopilots on my other (bigger) boats but this time around I went with the TillerClutch. I guess it depends on your sailing philosophy and how your Monty is set up. My Spirit is a minimalist M-17 without batteries, or any electrical system at all. An autopilot would have been the only thing aboard that required a deep cycle battery.
I don't have a performance report on the TillerClutch because I just installed it. It is obviously a well made piece of hardware. Lashing the tiller holds Spirit on a fairly straight course in moderate seas (make course adjustments by scooting around the cockpit) but if you go forward to drop the jib expect the boat to take off on a great circle route . Bottom line is that comparing a TillerClutch to an autopilot isn't really fair. They really do two different things. If you want something to hold a steady course while you go below to make lunch then an autopilot is probably your best bet. Me? I just scoot around my boat a lot.
Jim M17 "Spirit" (c. 2007)
On Apr 10, 2013, at 3:04 PM, Dan Richman <danielarichman@gmail.com> wrote:
i'm trying to decide whether to install the nifty TillerClutch, from WaveFront, on my m-17. it's a beautifully made piece of gear. but in the past, i've used similar devices and they failed to hold the boat on course. not even close, even though they were properly installed. it's not that the clutch slipped; it's that the boat's balance seemed to be thrown off too much by my moving around.
i plan to add a raymarine st1000+ autopilot soon, and my thinking was that that would maintain a good course despite my movements, since it corrects itself to hold a set heading. i was thinking i'd just use the autopilot rather than the tiller clutch.
but then again, the autopilot uses up power, while the clutch does not.
does anyone have experience using the clutch, the autopilot, or both? if both, when do you use one and when the other?
thanks for your thoughts.
dan
Thanks guys. I've been on boats that simply REFUSED to heave to in the classic manner. Most of the others took a lot of fiddling. Knowing that you guys are doing it on your M17s leaves me without any excuses. Jim M17 "Spirit" (c. 2007) On Apr 11, 2013, at 6:21 PM, Rick Davies <jdavies104@gmail.com> wrote:
I've found she rides easiest with the genoa rolled down to 100% or less, sheeted tight and backed. I've never tried heaving to with the full 135%, but I'd guess she'd heel pretty far in a good breeze. The boom's over the quarter and the tiller's lashed down. The wind wanders somewhere between a close reach and abeam, but I wouldn't think it favors either one.
Rick M17 #633 Lynne L
On Thursday, April 11, 2013, James Poulakis wrote:
Does the boat lay in the classic close-reaching position or does she settle in more broadside?
On Apr 10, 2013, at 7:32 PM, GARY M HYDE <gmhyde1@mac.com> wrote:
board down; adjust jib trim and tiller to hold the heave to. Works well in strong wind when needing to reef the main and no shelter is handy. --Gary On Apr 10, 2013, at 4:58 PM, James Poulakis <picfo@comcast.net> wrote:
How does the M17 heave to anyway? I've sailed mine for six years now and have never seriously attempted it. I find that there's too much chafing and bumping involved. How would you guys do it in the typical 25 knot winds and San Francisco chop? Board up? Board down? Reefs?
Jim M17 "Spirit" (c. 2007)
On Apr 10, 2013, at 4:23 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
I imagine that when you want to go below to make lunch it might be better to heave-to with the sails adjusted so you can lash the tiller against the cockpit coaming. If you are lashing the tiller to go forward, consider that it might be best to use a furler on so light a boat, and stay in the cockpit.
I picked up a simple tiller-lashing trick on the internet that consists of a line from the starboard stern cleat, thence to the tiller with about three wraps around the stick (do not cross the loops), and then to the port stern cleat. If you get the length right, you can slip the wraps back to the stern and steer, and to secure the tiller you slip the wraps forward and they will jam and hold the tiller. For a boat like the 17 that doesn't track well when you are jumping around, this simple trick seems to hold my boat as steady as a clutch, with no holes drilled and nothing to hit your hand on.
Tom M17 Scintilla (2004)
On Apr 10, 2013, at 3:40 PM, James Poulakis wrote:
I loved the autopilots on my other (bigger) boats but this time around I went with the TillerClutch. I guess it depends on your sailing philosophy and how your Monty is set up. My Spirit is a minimalist M-17 without batteries, or any electrical system at all. An autopilot would have been the only thing aboard that required a deep cycle battery.
I don't have a performance report on the TillerClutch because I just installed it. It is obviously a well made piece of hardware. Lashing the tiller holds Spirit on a fairly straight course in moderate seas (make course adjustments by scooting around the cockpit) but if you go forward to drop the jib expect the boat to take off on a great circle route . Bottom line is that comparing a TillerClutch to an autopilot isn't really fair. They really do two different things. If you want something to hold a steady course while you go below to make lunch then an autopilot is probably your best bet. Me? I just scoot around my boat a lot.
Jim M17 "Spirit" (c. 2007)
On Apr 10, 2013, at 3:04 PM, Dan Richman <danielarichman@gmail.com> wrote:
> i'm trying to decide whether to install the nifty TillerClutch, from > WaveFront, on my m-17. it's a beautifully made piece of gear. but in the > past, i've used similar devices and they failed to hold the boat on course. > not even close, even though they were properly installed. it's not that the > clutch slipped; it's that the boat's balance seemed to be thrown off too > much by my moving around. > > i plan to add a raymarine st1000+ autopilot soon, and my thinking was that > that would maintain a good course despite my movements, since it corrects > itself to hold a set heading. i was thinking i'd just use the autopilot > rather than the tiller clutch. > > but then again, the autopilot uses up power, while the clutch does not. > > does anyone have experience using the clutch, the autopilot, or both? if > both, when do you use one and when the other? > > thanks for your thoughts. > > dan
A little more broad reach. ~~~_/)~~~ Gary Sent from my iPhone :-) On Apr 11, 2013, at 5:57 PM, James Poulakis <picfo@comcast.net> wrote:
Does the boat lay in the classic close-reaching position or does she settle in more broadside?
On Apr 10, 2013, at 7:32 PM, GARY M HYDE <gmhyde1@mac.com> wrote:
board down; adjust jib trim and tiller to hold the heave to. Works well in strong wind when needing to reef the main and no shelter is handy. --Gary On Apr 10, 2013, at 4:58 PM, James Poulakis <picfo@comcast.net> wrote:
How does the M17 heave to anyway? I've sailed mine for six years now and have never seriously attempted it. I find that there's too much chafing and bumping involved. How would you guys do it in the typical 25 knot winds and San Francisco chop? Board up? Board down? Reefs?
Jim M17 "Spirit" (c. 2007)
On Apr 10, 2013, at 4:23 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
I imagine that when you want to go below to make lunch it might be better to heave-to with the sails adjusted so you can lash the tiller against the cockpit coaming. If you are lashing the tiller to go forward, consider that it might be best to use a furler on so light a boat, and stay in the cockpit.
I picked up a simple tiller-lashing trick on the internet that consists of a line from the starboard stern cleat, thence to the tiller with about three wraps around the stick (do not cross the loops), and then to the port stern cleat. If you get the length right, you can slip the wraps back to the stern and steer, and to secure the tiller you slip the wraps forward and they will jam and hold the tiller. For a boat like the 17 that doesn't track well when you are jumping around, this simple trick seems to hold my boat as steady as a clutch, with no holes drilled and nothing to hit your hand on.
Tom M17 Scintilla (2004)
On Apr 10, 2013, at 3:40 PM, James Poulakis wrote:
I loved the autopilots on my other (bigger) boats but this time around I went with the TillerClutch. I guess it depends on your sailing philosophy and how your Monty is set up. My Spirit is a minimalist M-17 without batteries, or any electrical system at all. An autopilot would have been the only thing aboard that required a deep cycle battery.
I don't have a performance report on the TillerClutch because I just installed it. It is obviously a well made piece of hardware. Lashing the tiller holds Spirit on a fairly straight course in moderate seas (make course adjustments by scooting around the cockpit) but if you go forward to drop the jib expect the boat to take off on a great circle route . Bottom line is that comparing a TillerClutch to an autopilot isn't really fair. They really do two different things. If you want something to hold a steady course while you go below to make lunch then an autopilot is probably your best bet. Me? I just scoot around my boat a lot.
Jim M17 "Spirit" (c. 2007)
On Apr 10, 2013, at 3:04 PM, Dan Richman <danielarichman@gmail.com> wrote:
i'm trying to decide whether to install the nifty TillerClutch, from WaveFront, on my m-17. it's a beautifully made piece of gear. but in the past, i've used similar devices and they failed to hold the boat on course. not even close, even though they were properly installed. it's not that the clutch slipped; it's that the boat's balance seemed to be thrown off too much by my moving around.
i plan to add a raymarine st1000+ autopilot soon, and my thinking was that that would maintain a good course despite my movements, since it corrects itself to hold a set heading. i was thinking i'd just use the autopilot rather than the tiller clutch.
but then again, the autopilot uses up power, while the clutch does not.
does anyone have experience using the clutch, the autopilot, or both? if both, when do you use one and when the other?
thanks for your thoughts.
dan
-- Dan Richman DanielARichman@gmail.com 5039 View Road Langley, WA 98260 USA Home: 360-221-6216
Cell: 360-949-3234
Hi Dan, All the clutches have limitations when used in small boats eg my M 15, I suppose because of our weight with respect to the weight of the boat ,but the Wavefront product is certainly the best which I have ever encountered. Good luck. RTH -----Original Message----- From: Dan Richman Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 6:04 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: Tiller clutches and/or autopilots? i'm trying to decide whether to install the nifty TillerClutch, from WaveFront, on my m-17. it's a beautifully made piece of gear. but in the past, i've used similar devices and they failed to hold the boat on course. not even close, even though they were properly installed. it's not that the clutch slipped; it's that the boat's balance seemed to be thrown off too much by my moving around. i plan to add a raymarine st1000+ autopilot soon, and my thinking was that that would maintain a good course despite my movements, since it corrects itself to hold a set heading. i was thinking i'd just use the autopilot rather than the tiller clutch. but then again, the autopilot uses up power, while the clutch does not. does anyone have experience using the clutch, the autopilot, or both? if both, when do you use one and when the other? thanks for your thoughts. dan -- Dan Richman DanielARichman@gmail.com 5039 View Road Langley, WA 98260 USA Home: 360-221-6216 Cell: 360-949-3234
i have balanced the sails on my M17, SWEET PEA, and she will hold her course using the TillerClutch. you need to play a bit and learn how the boat will react ... a combination of wind strength, sea state and what sails you have set. when the winds are light(er) your movement on the boat is more likely to 'throw her off'. motoring is a 'different trick' than sailing. your movement and the sea state will really throw the boat off. i've learned where to set the tiller with TillerClutch and can usually step away for a quick sec to get something in the cabin. in calm seas i can steer the boat, slow curves not tight corners maneuvering, by shifting my weight. have a LOT more hours on the TillerClutch installed on Sage 17 AIR BORN. i've set and sailed the boat for over an hour. on more than a few occasions i've gone below, made a sandwich, used the head. the stronger the wind the easier this is to do. this past January at the Wrinkleboat Ran-Tan i conducted a sail change using the TillerClutch. wind blowing 20+ knots and seas 2+ feet. AIR BORN sailed herself when under main alone. this was with me going forward to unhank the genoa and then go forward and rig the working jib. it was a wild ride when a the bow! on the M15 i'm to big and if i move more than a few inches the boat will change course. those folks with less 'body displacement' may have better success. TillerClutch is great. best on the market. :: Dave Scobie --- On Wed, 4/10/13, Dan Richman <danielarichman@gmail.com> wrote:
i'm trying to decide whether to install the nifty TillerClutch, from WaveFront, on my m-17. it's a beautifully made piece of gear. but in the past, i've used similar devices and they failed to hold the boat on course. not even close, even though they were properly installed. it's not that the clutch slipped; it's that the boat's balance seemed to be thrown off too much by my moving around.
i plan to add a raymarine st1000+ autopilot soon, and my thinking was that that would maintain a good course despite my movements, since it corrects itself to hold a set heading. i was thinking i'd just use the autopilot rather than the tiller clutch.
but then again, the autopilot uses up power, while the clutch does not.
does anyone have experience using the clutch, the autopilot, or both? if both, when do you use one and when the other?
thanks for your thoughts.
dan
-- Dan Richman DanielARichman@gmail.com 5039 View Road Langley, WA 98260 USA Home: 360-221-6216
Cell: 360-949-3234
Good comments as always. I don't know if it is a characteristic of boats with Lyle Hess design influences, but my Nor'sea 27 would not "park" with any size jib up, but would do so nicely with main alone. Something about the bow shape gives it windage enough to blow the bow down when it approaches a tack. I rarely park my M17, so I will have to experiment with all the sail combinations this season. I do know that sailboats know more about sailing than their skippers (with rare exceptions), but they need to be given proper orders. On Apr 10, 2013, at 5:15 PM, W David Scobie wrote:
i have balanced the sails on my M17, SWEET PEA, and she will hold her course using the TillerClutch. you need to play a bit and learn how the boat will react ... a combination of wind strength, sea state and what sails you have set.
when the winds are light(er) your movement on the boat is more likely to 'throw her off'.
motoring is a 'different trick' than sailing. your movement and the sea state will really throw the boat off. i've learned where to set the tiller with TillerClutch and can usually step away for a quick sec to get something in the cabin. in calm seas i can steer the boat, slow curves not tight corners maneuvering, by shifting my weight.
have a LOT more hours on the TillerClutch installed on Sage 17 AIR BORN. i've set and sailed the boat for over an hour. on more than a few occasions i've gone below, made a sandwich, used the head. the stronger the wind the easier this is to do.
this past January at the Wrinkleboat Ran-Tan i conducted a sail change using the TillerClutch. wind blowing 20+ knots and seas 2+ feet. AIR BORN sailed herself when under main alone. this was with me going forward to unhank the genoa and then go forward and rig the working jib. it was a wild ride when a the bow!
on the M15 i'm to big and if i move more than a few inches the boat will change course. those folks with less 'body displacement' may have better success.
TillerClutch is great. best on the market.
:: Dave Scobie
--- On Wed, 4/10/13, Dan Richman <danielarichman@gmail.com> wrote:
i'm trying to decide whether to install the nifty TillerClutch, from WaveFront, on my m-17. it's a beautifully made piece of gear. but in the past, i've used similar devices and they failed to hold the boat on course. not even close, even though they were properly installed. it's not that the clutch slipped; it's that the boat's balance seemed to be thrown off too much by my moving around.
i plan to add a raymarine st1000+ autopilot soon, and my thinking was that that would maintain a good course despite my movements, since it corrects itself to hold a set heading. i was thinking i'd just use the autopilot rather than the tiller clutch.
but then again, the autopilot uses up power, while the clutch does not.
does anyone have experience using the clutch, the autopilot, or both? if both, when do you use one and when the other?
thanks for your thoughts.
dan
-- Dan Richman DanielARichman@gmail.com 5039 View Road Langley, WA 98260 USA Home: 360-221-6216
Cell: 360-949-3234
Dan: Another approach is to use a jam cleat, a piece of rope that will wedge in it, and two short bungees. The rope and bungees are stretched across the cockpit, maybe from the stern cleats, the jam cleat is attached to the underside of the tiller forward of where the rope crosses under it. Then pull the rope forward and hook it in the jam end of the jam cleat (which must be it's forward end). With proper bungee tension the rope with hold the tiller in position but allow it to be moved when desired. The rope can be popped out of the cleat when you what the tiller to move freely. I like the tiller clutch, but I prefer the jam cleat system. --Gary., M17 Hydeaway2 On Apr 10, 2013, at 3:04 PM, Dan Richman <danielarichman@gmail.com> wrote:
i'm trying to decide whether to install the nifty TillerClutch, from WaveFront, on my m-17. it's a beautifully made piece of gear. but in the past, i've used similar devices and they failed to hold the boat on course. not even close, even though they were properly installed. it's not that the clutch slipped; it's that the boat's balance seemed to be thrown off too much by my moving around.
i plan to add a raymarine st1000+ autopilot soon, and my thinking was that that would maintain a good course despite my movements, since it corrects itself to hold a set heading. i was thinking i'd just use the autopilot rather than the tiller clutch.
but then again, the autopilot uses up power, while the clutch does not.
does anyone have experience using the clutch, the autopilot, or both? if both, when do you use one and when the other?
thanks for your thoughts.
dan
-- Dan Richman DanielARichman@gmail.com 5039 View Road Langley, WA 98260 USA Home: 360-221-6216
Cell: 360-949-3234
What Scobie said, plus: you can mess with lines and cleats, but the advantage of the Tiller Clutch is that it takes only one second, or less, to set it. It's always there and ready. And another second to release. You may like messing about in boats, but there are times when you want to set it for a very short time and wouldn't go to the trouble of finding and rigging lines. Bill Riker M15 - #184 Storm Petrel -----Original Message----- From: GARY M HYDE Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 8:30 PM To: danielarichman@gmail.com ; For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Tiller clutches and/or autopilots? Dan: Another approach is to use a jam cleat, a piece of rope that will wedge in it, and two short bungees. The rope and bungees are stretched across the cockpit, maybe from the stern cleats, the jam cleat is attached to the underside of the tiller forward of where the rope crosses under it. Then pull the rope forward and hook it in the jam end of the jam cleat (which must be it's forward end). With proper bungee tension the rope with hold the tiller in position but allow it to be moved when desired. The rope can be popped out of the cleat when you what the tiller to move freely. I like the tiller clutch, but I prefer the jam cleat system. --Gary., M17 Hydeaway2 On Apr 10, 2013, at 3:04 PM, Dan Richman <danielarichman@gmail.com> wrote:
i'm trying to decide whether to install the nifty TillerClutch, from WaveFront, on my m-17. it's a beautifully made piece of gear. but in the past, i've used similar devices and they failed to hold the boat on course. not even close, even though they were properly installed. it's not that the clutch slipped; it's that the boat's balance seemed to be thrown off too much by my moving around.
i plan to add a raymarine st1000+ autopilot soon, and my thinking was that that would maintain a good course despite my movements, since it corrects itself to hold a set heading. i was thinking i'd just use the autopilot rather than the tiller clutch.
but then again, the autopilot uses up power, while the clutch does not.
does anyone have experience using the clutch, the autopilot, or both? if both, when do you use one and when the other?
thanks for your thoughts.
dan
-- Dan Richman DanielARichman@gmail.com 5039 View Road Langley, WA 98260 USA Home: 360-221-6216
Cell: 360-949-3234
I've been using the single-line approach described by Tom Jenkins for years, and It works great. It's always there, can be engaged and disengaged quickly, needs no mounting, and saves quite a few bucks. It also follows my key principle for boat gear - KISS. Rick M17 #633 Lynne L On Thursday, April 11, 2013, William B Riker wrote:
What Scobie said, plus: you can mess with lines and cleats, but the advantage of the Tiller Clutch is that it takes only one second, or less, to set it. It's always there and ready. And another second to release. You may like messing about in boats, but there are times when you want to set it for a very short time and wouldn't go to the trouble of finding and rigging lines.
Bill Riker M15 - #184 Storm Petrel
-----Original Message----- From: GARY M HYDE Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 8:30 PM To: danielarichman@gmail.com ; For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Tiller clutches and/or autopilots?
Dan: Another approach is to use a jam cleat, a piece of rope that will wedge in it, and two short bungees. The rope and bungees are stretched across the cockpit, maybe from the stern cleats, the jam cleat is attached to the underside of the tiller forward of where the rope crosses under it. Then pull the rope forward and hook it in the jam end of the jam cleat (which must be it's forward end). With proper bungee tension the rope with hold the tiller in position but allow it to be moved when desired. The rope can be popped out of the cleat when you what the tiller to move freely. I like the tiller clutch, but I prefer the jam cleat system. --Gary., M17 Hydeaway2 On Apr 10, 2013, at 3:04 PM, Dan Richman <danielarichman@gmail.com> wrote:
i'm trying to decide whether to install the nifty TillerClutch, from
WaveFront, on my m-17. it's a beautifully made piece of gear. but in the past, i've used similar devices and they failed to hold the boat on course. not even close, even though they were properly installed. it's not that the clutch slipped; it's that the boat's balance seemed to be thrown off too much by my moving around.
i plan to add a raymarine st1000+ autopilot soon, and my thinking was that that would maintain a good course despite my movements, since it corrects itself to hold a set heading. i was thinking i'd just use the autopilot rather than the tiller clutch.
but then again, the autopilot uses up power, while the clutch does not.
does anyone have experience using the clutch, the autopilot, or both? if both, when do you use one and when the other?
thanks for your thoughts.
dan
-- Dan Richman DanielARichman@gmail.com 5039 View Road Langley, WA 98260 USA Home: 360-221-6216
Cell: 360-949-3234
participants (8)
-
Dan Richman -
GARY M HYDE -
James Poulakis -
Rick Davies -
Robert Hall -
Tom Jenkins -
W David Scobie -
William B Riker