Just about decided to buy a Outback 2015 2.5i (small 4 cyc.) engine option to two my Monty 15. Anybody here tow with a comparable 185 hp and about 175 lb-ft of torque 4 cyc engine or better yet this same vehicle. Your observations are most appreciated. Smiley M15 #616. THANKS Karen & Smiley Magoo252@comcast.net <mailto:Magoo252@comcast.net>
I tow my M15 with that very setup. Mine is a 2012 Outback. It is rated to 2700 pound towing capacity. My car tows it just fine. Now, anything heavier than 1000 pounds is supposed to have trailer brakes, but none of these trailers do. Daniel M15 #208 Kestrel On 5/15/2015 2:21 PM, Karen & Smiley wrote:
Just about decided to buy a Outback 2015 2.5i (small 4 cyc.) engine option to two my Monty 15. Anybody here tow with a comparable 185 hp and about 175 lb-ft of torque 4 cyc engine or better yet this same vehicle. Your observations are most appreciated. Smiley M15 #616. THANKS
Karen & Smiley
Magoo252@comcast.net <mailto:Magoo252@comcast.net>
Where did you get that tow rating Daniel? I have a 2.5L Outback wagon and every source I could find showed all the Subarus rated 2200 lbs. (body style doesn't matter, they all have the same engine and drivetrain). Still more than adequate for an M15, just curious your source for the rating. thanks, John S. On 05/15/2015 02:24 PM, Daniel Rich wrote:
I tow my M15 with that very setup. Mine is a 2012 Outback. It is rated to 2700 pound towing capacity. My car tows it just fine. Now, anything heavier than 1000 pounds is supposed to have trailer brakes, but none of these trailers do.
Daniel M15 #208 Kestrel
On 5/15/2015 2:21 PM, Karen & Smiley wrote:
Just about decided to buy a Outback 2015 2.5i (small 4 cyc.) engine option to two my Monty 15. Anybody here tow with a comparable 185 hp and about 175 lb-ft of torque 4 cyc engine or better yet this same vehicle. Your observations are most appreciated. Smiley M15 #616. THANKS
Karen & Smiley
Magoo252@comcast.net <mailto:Magoo252@comcast.net>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Interesting. It is in my 2012 owner's manual. The 6 cylinder is rated to 3000 pounds. My 2.5 CVT is rated to 2700. Daniel On 5/15/2015 2:58 PM, John Schinnerer wrote:
Where did you get that tow rating Daniel?
I have a 2.5L Outback wagon and every source I could find showed all the Subarus rated 2200 lbs. (body style doesn't matter, they all have the same engine and drivetrain).
Still more than adequate for an M15, just curious your source for the rating.
thanks, John S.
On 05/15/2015 02:24 PM, Daniel Rich wrote:
I tow my M15 with that very setup. Mine is a 2012 Outback. It is rated to 2700 pound towing capacity. My car tows it just fine. Now, anything heavier than 1000 pounds is supposed to have trailer brakes, but none of these trailers do.
Daniel M15 #208 Kestrel
On 5/15/2015 2:21 PM, Karen & Smiley wrote:
Just about decided to buy a Outback 2015 2.5i (small 4 cyc.) engine option to two my Monty 15. Anybody here tow with a comparable 185 hp and about 175 lb-ft of torque 4 cyc engine or better yet this same vehicle. Your observations are most appreciated. Smiley M15 #616. THANKS
Karen & Smiley
Magoo252@comcast.net <mailto:Magoo252@comcast.net>
Hmm, that's nice - newer models must have upped the ratings. You are not even pushing the envelope if you were towing an M17 instead of an M15. Bought my Outback used so didn't get the original manual, but it's all online of course - any Subie owners wondering can find yours here, try chapter 8 for trailer/towing info: http://www.subaru.com/owners/resource-center/owners-manuals/ Manufacturer rating in the owners manual for my 2001 Outback wagon is 2000 lbs. trailer weight, 200 lbs. tongue weight. And it does say over 1000 lbs. should have trailer brakes. All the non-manufacturer online sources I found (generic towing ratings databases) say 2200 lbs. - not sure where they got that. Maybe they added the 2000 and the 200...?! The owners' manual goes into all kinds of useful details about gross vehicle and gross axle weight for towing also. Useful tidbits include: "Ensure that the trailer tongue load is from 8 to 11 percent of the total trailer weight...approximately 60 percent of the trailer load should be in the front and approximately 40 percent in the rear. Also, distribute the load as evenly as possible on both the left and right sides." In other words, not too tongue or tail heavy, or lopsided, which will affect safe vehicle handling in other ways. cheers, John S. On 05/15/2015 03:23 PM, Daniel Rich wrote:
Interesting. It is in my 2012 owner's manual. The 6 cylinder is rated to 3000 pounds. My 2.5 CVT is rated to 2700.
Daniel
On 5/15/2015 2:58 PM, John Schinnerer wrote:
Where did you get that tow rating Daniel?
I have a 2.5L Outback wagon and every source I could find showed all the Subarus rated 2200 lbs. (body style doesn't matter, they all have the same engine and drivetrain).
Still more than adequate for an M15, just curious your source for the rating.
thanks, John S.
On 05/15/2015 02:24 PM, Daniel Rich wrote:
I tow my M15 with that very setup. Mine is a 2012 Outback. It is rated to 2700 pound towing capacity. My car tows it just fine. Now, anything heavier than 1000 pounds is supposed to have trailer brakes, but none of these trailers do.
Daniel M15 #208 Kestrel
On 5/15/2015 2:21 PM, Karen & Smiley wrote:
Just about decided to buy a Outback 2015 2.5i (small 4 cyc.) engine option to two my Monty 15. Anybody here tow with a comparable 185 hp and about 175 lb-ft of torque 4 cyc engine or better yet this same vehicle. Your observations are most appreciated. Smiley M15 #616. THANKS
Karen & Smiley
Magoo252@comcast.net <mailto:Magoo252@comcast.net>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
I tow my M15 with a 1984 Volvo that has only 108 horsepower and have no problem keeping up with traffic, even up steep mountain grades. The M15 isn't any heavier than a carload of people. Sometimes I even tow it with my 1986 Isuzu Trooper diesel which has only 75 horsepower. This is fine on flat terrain, but it's too slow climbing a mountain pass- I can't even keep up with fully loaded semi trucks. If it has an automatic, you may still want to upgrade the transmission cooler, and avoid using overdrive in order to keep the transmission from overheating. I also recommend an audible alarm on the engine temperature if you're going to climb long grades- both of the above mentioned underpowered tow rigs have an engine watchdog TM4: http://www.enginewatchdog.com/tm4.html Tyler Davis, CA M15 #157 "Defiant"
On May 15, 2015, at 2:21 PM, Karen & Smiley <magoo252@comcast.net> wrote:
Just about decided to buy a Outback 2015 2.5i (small 4 cyc.) engine option to two my Monty 15. Anybody here tow with a comparable 185 hp and about 175 lb-ft of torque 4 cyc engine or better yet this same vehicle. Your observations are most appreciated. Smiley M15 #616. THANKS
I tow with that very vehicle . No problem at all. The cars tow limit is 2200 lbs far above the weight of the M15 and trailer. Kevin Kearns, Pittsburgh M15 #518 "Scout" Sent from my iPhone
On May 15, 2015, at 5:22 PM, "Karen & Smiley" <magoo252@comcast.net> wrote:
Just about decided to buy a Outback 2015 2.5i (small 4 cyc.) engine option to two my Monty 15. Anybody here tow with a comparable 185 hp and about 175 lb-ft of torque 4 cyc engine or better yet this same vehicle. Your observations are most appreciated. Smiley M15 #616. THANKS
Karen & Smiley
Magoo252@comcast.net <mailto:Magoo252@comcast.net>
On 5/15/2015 4:21 PM, Karen & Smiley wrote: Hi Karen & Smiley, When we bought our M15 we first towed it with a VW-GTI; and a later with a VW JETTA station wagon. Don't recall their exact HP and torque, but it was more than enough to happily tow the M15 at about 70 MPH + on Interstates from Connecticut to Florida or to Lake Champlain. My first adventure in towing was when we bought a Bolger MICRO - with trailer in Michigan - sight-unseen - and then towed it from there to Florida using a stick shift VW-RABBIT 4 cylinder engine.... The trailer was humungous. It was my very first experience at towing a trailer. After reaching Florida, I did some engineering calculations on the sizes of the structural members of the trailer, and found to my astonishment that the trailer alone weighed about 2500 lbs. Later I concluded that it was a trailer for a mobile home..... after researching "regular" boat trailers at the launch ramp. I found that they weighed about 250 - 300 lbs The VW-RABBIT valiantly towed it to from Michigan to Florida, but going through the mountains in Tennessee I was in 2nd gear ..... going uphill. Everything passed me... On the way back to Connecticut on I-95, I had no problems at all.... So, while I certainly wouldn't ever do that again, a 4 cyclinder Rabbit was able to pull a total rig weight of about 3500 lbs. ( drove very carefully.... as a newbie) Connie
Just about decided to buy a Outback 2015 2.5i (small 4 cyc.) engine optionor to two my Monty 15. Anybody here tow with a comparable 185 hp and about 175 lb-ft of torque 4 cyc engine or better yet this same vehicle. Your observations are most appreciated. Smiley M15 #616. THANKS
Karen & Smiley
Magoo252@comcast.net <mailto:Magoo252@comcast.net>
In cases like the adventure below, it's more the brakes that are a concern (or would be to me!). If you haven't got enough power to go, you just don't go. Or go very slowly, especially up hills. But if you haven't got enough power to stop...! That's an IMO scarier issue. cheers, John S. On 05/15/2015 04:06 PM, Conbert Benneck wrote:
On 5/15/2015 4:21 PM, Karen & Smiley wrote:
Hi Karen & Smiley,
When we bought our M15 we first towed it with a VW-GTI; and a later with a VW JETTA station wagon.
Don't recall their exact HP and torque, but it was more than enough to happily tow the M15 at about 70 MPH + on Interstates from Connecticut to Florida or to Lake Champlain.
My first adventure in towing was when we bought a Bolger MICRO - with trailer in Michigan - sight-unseen - and then towed it from there to Florida using a stick shift VW-RABBIT 4 cylinder engine.... The trailer was humungous. It was my very first experience at towing a trailer.
After reaching Florida, I did some engineering calculations on the sizes of the structural members of the trailer, and found to my astonishment that the trailer alone weighed about 2500 lbs. Later I concluded that it was a trailer for a mobile home..... after researching "regular" boat trailers at the launch ramp. I found that they weighed about 250 - 300 lbs
The VW-RABBIT valiantly towed it to from Michigan to Florida, but going through the mountains in Tennessee I was in 2nd gear ..... going uphill. Everything passed me...
On the way back to Connecticut on I-95, I had no problems at all....
So, while I certainly wouldn't ever do that again, a 4 cyclinder Rabbit was able to pull a total rig weight of about 3500 lbs. ( drove very carefully.... as a newbie)
Connie
Just about decided to buy a Outback 2015 2.5i (small 4 cyc.) engine optionor to two my Monty 15. Anybody here tow with a comparable 185 hp and about 175 lb-ft of torque 4 cyc engine or better yet this same vehicle. Your observations are most appreciated. Smiley M15 #616. THANKS
Karen & Smiley
Magoo252@comcast.net <mailto:Magoo252@comcast.net>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
On 5/15/2015 6:27 PM, John Schinnerer wrote: John, You are spot on. As an engineer I immediately recognized the potential brake problem, and drove accordingly... I would down shift to slow down; ... and I drove _*very*_ carefully. My eyes were as far ahead on the road as I could see, and I drove as if I had no brakes... As soon as I got the new rig safely back to Connecticut the very first thing I did was find and buy a more suitable boat trailer for the 900 lb. MICRO. That made a huge difference in the towed weight of the rig, and I was now well within VW's - Germany towing weight limits (in those days VW-USA - 1992, just said No Towing: ... too many Liability Lawyers in America?) But I did learn many valuable lessons concerning boat trailers and their sizes and weights, which were very useful when I bought my M15 sight-unseen in Panama City, FL At least I was now able to ask the seller pertinent questions about his M15 trailer and know what his answers meant. Connie
In cases like the adventure below, it's more the brakes that are a concern (or would be to me!).
If you haven't got enough power to go, you just don't go. Or go very slowly, especially up hills.
But if you haven't got enough power to stop...! That's an IMO scarier issue.
cheers, John S.
On 05/15/2015 04:06 PM, Conbert Benneck wrote:
On 5/15/2015 4:21 PM, Karen & Smiley wrote:
Hi Karen & Smiley,
When we bought our M15 we first towed it with a VW-GTI; and a later with a VW JETTA station wagon.
Don't recall their exact HP and torque, but it was more than enough to happily tow the M15 at about 70 MPH + on Interstates from Connecticut to Florida or to Lake Champlain.
My first adventure in towing was when we bought a Bolger MICRO - with trailer in Michigan - sight-unseen - and then towed it from there to Florida using a stick shift VW-RABBIT 4 cylinder engine.... The trailer was humungous. It was my very first experience at towing a trailer.
After reaching Florida, I did some engineering calculations on the sizes of the structural members of the trailer, and found to my astonishment that the trailer alone weighed about 2500 lbs. Later I concluded that it was a trailer for a mobile home..... after researching "regular" boat trailers at the launch ramp. I found that they weighed about 250 - 300 lbs
The VW-RABBIT valiantly towed it to from Michigan to Florida, but going through the mountains in Tennessee I was in 2nd gear ..... going uphill. Everything passed me...
On the way back to Connecticut on I-95, I had no problems at all....
So, while I certainly wouldn't ever do that again, a 4 cyclinder Rabbit was able to pull a total rig weight of about 3500 lbs. ( drove very carefully.... as a newbie)
Connie
Just about decided to buy a Outback 2015 2.5i (small 4 cyc.) engine optionor to two my Monty 15. Anybody here tow with a comparable 185 hp and about 175 lb-ft of torque 4 cyc engine or better yet this same vehicle. Your observations are most appreciated. Smiley M15 #616. THANKS
Karen & Smiley
Magoo252@comcast.net <mailto:Magoo252@comcast.net>
participants (6)
-
Conbert Benneck -
Daniel Rich -
John Schinnerer -
Karen & Smiley -
Kearns, Kevin P -
Tyler Backman