Re: Help with selling modified M 15
Ann: I recommend - Remove the pan. It looks janky. Show the boat without it present. Clean up the area under the cockpit. Vac, scrub, etc. Better would be to paint with Interlux BilgeCoat. Follow prep as outlined on the can. Make sure the edge, from cutting out the pan, isn't sharp. If need sand away edge and burrs with 120g sandpaper. Don't sand the shiny visible bits of gel coat at the edge, just round off any sharps. Like a used car clean boat sells faster and for more money. :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com <<-- new site! On Mon, Mar 21, 2022, 3:05 PM abkeeton <abkeeton@yahoo.com> wrote:
Here it is.Lighting not great in the garage...
Sent from Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message -------- From: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> Date: 3/21/22 4:55 PM (GMT-06:00) To: abkeeton <abkeeton@yahoo.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Help with selling modified M 15
Ann:
Share a picture of what it looks like with the pan out.
What you see is stock. Nothing added. It is how 'under space' below the pan looks.
There should be a couple plywood partial-bulkheads under the cockpit.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com <<-- new site!
On Mon, Mar 21, 2022, 2:49 PM abkeeton <abkeeton@yahoo.com> wrote:
Thanks for the photos. I see what you mean. Yours looks great. Honestly, I don't know who would do that kind of work or how much it would cost. Also, you have an insert. In my boat, the guy put a piece of plywood down below, which also looks terrible.
Sent from Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message -------- From: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> Date: 3/21/22 4:35 PM (GMT-06:00) To: abkeeton <abkeeton@yahoo.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Help with selling modified M 15
Thanks for sharing that picture Ann.
You have a mess from the prior owner that results in really poor presentation with a have removed non-professional looking job. The pan needs to be removed and the edges sanded so they are straight and not sharp. See three pictures attached for how the locker should look (or look at the slideshow I have showing my M15 - https://m15namedscred.wordpress.com/slideshow-tour-of-scred/ )
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com <<-- new site!
On Mon, Mar 21, 2022, 2:24 PM abkeeton <abkeeton@yahoo.com> wrote:
When potential buyers see the cuts inside of the locker, they are alarmed. One guy thought the locker must have been cut in order to fix damage to the hull underneath. Another guy wanted me to knock off $1,000 because the boat is damaged.
Sent from Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message -------- From: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> Date: 3/21/22 4:07 PM (GMT-06:00) To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: abkeeton@yahoo.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Help with selling modified M 15
Ann:
Do you mean the cockpit locker pan? The pan that means you can't see the inside of the hull when looking into the cockpit locker?
My M15 had BOTH port and starboard cockpit locker pans removed. It was great and allowed for effective storage of the ground tackle, fenders, dock lines, etc. See link to my M15s www-site below.
Someone(s) stating that 'you can't' have the pans cut out and use the lockers???!!! Really??!!
Most M17s don't have locker pans on the port side.
All Sage 15s/17s/SCs don't have locker pans.
(My Baba30 doesn't have locker pans.)
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com <<-- new site!
On Mon, Mar 21, 2022, 1:53 PM abkeeton via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Hello,I bought the Montgomery 15 many years ago. I have stored it in the garage and never sailed it.Recently, I decided to put the boat up for sale. I discovered that a previous owner had cut the inside of the starboard locker so he could lift it out to access storage underneath. I have since seen postings on this. Some people think it's a good idea to put the anchor in there.No one I have spoken with can understand why someone would cut the fiberglass and it's killing potential sales.Should I have the locker restored?Please respond to my email address.Thanks much,Ann Keeton Sent from Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
Hi All, My yacht club doesn't have a boat ramp, but does have a hoist for lifting sailboats that I am interested in trying with my M15. The hoist is a single point (hook). Does anyone here have any experience or suggestions on what type of lifting bridle or sling I could use for an M15? Would it be okay to lift by the chainplates, or should I plan on straps that go under the hull? Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157 Defiant
Tyler, I remember seeing a comment regarding lifting 15’s by the mooring cleats per Jerry M. Boat only weighs 750# +/- so that would make sense. On Thu, Mar 24, 2022 at 1:33 PM <casioqv@usermail.com> wrote:
Hi All,
My yacht club doesn't have a boat ramp, but does have a hoist for lifting sailboats that I am interested in trying with my M15. The hoist is a single point (hook). Does anyone here have any experience or suggestions on what type of lifting bridle or sling I could use for an M15? Would it be okay to lift by the chainplates, or should I plan on straps that go under the hull?
Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157 Defiant
Hi Gary, That makes sense, as it's not much force, but still makes me nervous. I'll probably add some backing plates and new bolts just to be safe, and build the sling with 3-strand dacron line so it's all eye splices with no knots. Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157 Defiant ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary H.Oberbeck" <fairandsquare1@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2022 2:00:35 PM Subject: M_Boats: Re: M15 hoist lifting bridle or sling Tyler, I remember seeing a comment regarding lifting 15’s by the mooring cleats per Jerry M. Boat only weighs 750# +/- so that would make sense. On Thu, Mar 24, 2022 at 1:33 PM <casioqv@usermail.com> wrote:
Hi All,
My yacht club doesn't have a boat ramp, but does have a hoist for lifting sailboats that I am interested in trying with my M15. The hoist is a single point (hook). Does anyone here have any experience or suggestions on what type of lifting bridle or sling I could use for an M15? Would it be okay to lift by the chainplates, or should I plan on straps that go under the hull?
Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157 Defiant
Could be OK - but I'd verify that with the maker and that it's covered under warranty... ;-) A pair of straps under hull would be a for-sure option. You can get those wide flat webbing towing straps pretty cheap at auto, hardware, etc. stores. They are way more than strong enough - heck, 1" climbing webbing would be way more than strong enough, but you want the width to spread the weight a bit. Even with the Monty's lapstrake hull, don't take chances with skinny straps. You will need a way to keep the straps spread apart, fore and aft while getting weight on them, since you have a one-point hoist. The stub keel may be adequate, with a helper maybe to manage one strap and you the other. Vaguely related anecdote - when I was a teenager I had a part time job running a boat hoist at a commercial launch (in King Salmon, south end of Humboldt Bay, for you NW locals :-). Big square hoist frame, electric winch, big wide straps. Launched everything from little 12' aluminum beer-can-boats to 20+ ft fiberglass sport fishing boats. Only one guy I couldn't launch...I think it was about a 23 ft fiberglass sportfishing boat, massive thing, the kind that looks almost as high as long on a trailer. Had to pull out the 'long' straps, never needed 'em for anyone else. Too heavy as I recall...got it all set up but the hoist just couldn't budge it. That, or the hoist frame topped out before getting it on the straps, and the 'regular' straps were too short. Few places I've seen more quirky characters passing thru than that job. Especially as there was a coffee shop/diner as part of the biz. I was the AM dishwasher/boat launch operator. The staff was as much the characters as the patrons... cheers, John On 3/24/22 14:00, Gary H.Oberbeck wrote:
Tyler, I remember seeing a comment regarding lifting 15’s by the mooring cleats per Jerry M. Boat only weighs 750# +/- so that would make sense.
On Thu, Mar 24, 2022 at 1:33 PM <casioqv@usermail.com> wrote:
Hi All,
My yacht club doesn't have a boat ramp, but does have a hoist for lifting sailboats that I am interested in trying with my M15. The hoist is a single point (hook). Does anyone here have any experience or suggestions on what type of lifting bridle or sling I could use for an M15? Would it be okay to lift by the chainplates, or should I plan on straps that go under the hull?
Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157 Defiant
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Former M15 owner Smiley created a lifting sling set-up for single point, crane, lifting. Hoping he will respond here or you can go over to the Facebook MSOG group and search there (I think he posted a description and picture a few years ago). I know Smiley still comments occasionally on the FB group. :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com <<-- new site! On Thu, Mar 24, 2022, 1:33 PM <casioqv@usermail.com> wrote:
Hi All,
My yacht club doesn't have a boat ramp, but does have a hoist for lifting sailboats that I am interested in trying with my M15. The hoist is a single point (hook). Does anyone here have any experience or suggestions on what type of lifting bridle or sling I could use for an M15? Would it be okay to lift by the chainplates, or should I plan on straps that go under the hull?
Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157 Defiant
I don't have a facebook account, if anyone has access to these photos and time to do so, please e-mail them to me. Thanks everyone for all the great ideas about this! Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157 Defiant ----- Original Message ----- From: "scoobscobie" <scoobscobie@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2022 6:44:52 PM Subject: M_Boats: Re: M15 hoist lifting bridle or sling Former M15 owner Smiley created a lifting sling set-up for single point, crane, lifting. Hoping he will respond here or you can go over to the Facebook MSOG group and search there (I think he posted a description and picture a few years ago). I know Smiley still comments occasionally on the FB group. :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com <<-- new site! On Thu, Mar 24, 2022, 1:33 PM <casioqv@usermail.com> wrote:
Hi All,
My yacht club doesn't have a boat ramp, but does have a hoist for lifting sailboats that I am interested in trying with my M15. The hoist is a single point (hook). Does anyone here have any experience or suggestions on what type of lifting bridle or sling I could use for an M15? Would it be okay to lift by the chainplates, or should I plan on straps that go under the hull?
Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157 Defiant
In lifting the 15's for installing the CB and then dropping it on the trailer, we made a bridle that hooked to the chainplates, with a line running ft that hooked to one of the stern cleats. 400-some boats, no problems. Obviously check all the bolts first. ________________________________ From: casioqv@usermail.com <casioqv@usermail.com> Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2022 1:33 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: M15 hoist lifting bridle or sling Hi All, My yacht club doesn't have a boat ramp, but does have a hoist for lifting sailboats that I am interested in trying with my M15. The hoist is a single point (hook). Does anyone here have any experience or suggestions on what type of lifting bridle or sling I could use for an M15? Would it be okay to lift by the chainplates, or should I plan on straps that go under the hull? Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157 Defiant
On Friday, March 25, 2022, 03:37:20 PM PDT, jerry montgomery <jmbn1@outlook.com> wrote: In lifting the 15's for installing the CB and then dropping it on the trailer, we made a bridle that hooked to the chainplates, with a line running ft that hooked to one of the stern cleats. 400-some boats, no problems. Obviously check all the bolts first. ________________________________ From: casioqv@usermail.com <casioqv@usermail.com> Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2022 1:33 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: M15 hoist lifting bridle or sling Hi All, My yacht club doesn't have a boat ramp, but does have a hoist for lifting sailboats that I am interested in trying with my M15. The hoist is a single point (hook). Does anyone here have any experience or suggestions on what type of lifting bridle or sling I could use for an M15? Would it be okay to lift by the chainplates, or should I plan on straps that go under the hull? Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157 Defiant
I wanted to follow up on this, as I have now been launching my M15 regularly using a hoist (see photo). I ended up making a 3-way lifting harness with a large stainless steel ring in the center for the hook, and three snap shackles to attach to the boat. I connect two forward snap shackles to the aft shroud adjusters, and the third to one of the stern dock cleats. The dock cleat line carries very little weight, most is on the stay adjusters. I found that I need to temporarily add extra pins to the shroud adjusters to get a good spot to clip the snap shackles onto, which I then remove before sailing. The line itself is just standard three strand dock lines, which should have at least 4,000lb of breaking strength. I was a little nervous the first time, but it seems to be working great so far. I initially did it with bowlines plus half hitches connecting the lines, but am going to re-do it all with eye splices for extra safety now that I am sure about the line lengths. I've also purchased some toggle pins with lanyards (link below) to make adding and removing the extra pins from the shroud adjusters quicker. For reference, my boat has the standard, widely available Hobie Cat stay adjusters with 1/4" holes. https://www.catalinadirect.com/shop-by-boat/capri-22/rigging/standing-riggin... Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157 Defiant ----- Original Message ----- From: "casioqv" <casioqv@usermail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2022 1:33:10 PM Subject: M15 hoist lifting bridle or sling Hi All, My yacht club doesn't have a boat ramp, but does have a hoist for lifting sailboats that I am interested in trying with my M15. The hoist is a single point (hook). Does anyone here have any experience or suggestions on what type of lifting bridle or sling I could use for an M15? Would it be okay to lift by the chainplates, or should I plan on straps that go under the hull? Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157 Defiant
Cool! Good work figuring this out and thanks for the pic. I can see why you were a bit nervous the first time... Interesting to see a flying sailboat! cheers, John On 11/9/22 12:53, casioqv@usermail.com wrote:
I wanted to follow up on this, as I have now been launching my M15 regularly using a hoist (see photo). I ended up making a 3-way lifting harness with a large stainless steel ring in the center for the hook, and three snap shackles to attach to the boat. I connect two forward snap shackles to the aft shroud adjusters, and the third to one of the stern dock cleats. The dock cleat line carries very little weight, most is on the stay adjusters. I found that I need to temporarily add extra pins to the shroud adjusters to get a good spot to clip the snap shackles onto, which I then remove before sailing. The line itself is just standard three strand dock lines, which should have at least 4,000lb of breaking strength.
I was a little nervous the first time, but it seems to be working great so far. I initially did it with bowlines plus half hitches connecting the lines, but am going to re-do it all with eye splices for extra safety now that I am sure about the line lengths.
I've also purchased some toggle pins with lanyards (link below) to make adding and removing the extra pins from the shroud adjusters quicker. For reference, my boat has the standard, widely available Hobie Cat stay adjusters with 1/4" holes.
https://www.catalinadirect.com/shop-by-boat/capri-22/rigging/standing-riggin...
Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157 Defiant
----- Original Message ----- From: "casioqv" <casioqv@usermail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2022 1:33:10 PM Subject: M15 hoist lifting bridle or sling
Hi All,
My yacht club doesn't have a boat ramp, but does have a hoist for lifting sailboats that I am interested in trying with my M15. The hoist is a single point (hook). Does anyone here have any experience or suggestions on what type of lifting bridle or sling I could use for an M15? Would it be okay to lift by the chainplates, or should I plan on straps that go under the hull?
Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157 Defiant
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Another followup with photos. Here is my "final" version 2.0 of my M15 lifting bridle. I used a stronger line, assembled it all with eye splices instead of knots, and added quick release toggle pins which are tethered to the bridle so they can't drop in the water. I store it all in a nylon mesh "reusable vegetable bag" which keeps it from getting moldy or chafed when not in use. If I make a 3.0 version I will eye splice directly to the hardware instead of looping it through as I did. Line: 1/2" nylon 3 strand anchor line, tensile strength 7500lbs (10x boat weight) Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157 Defiant ----- Original Message ----- From: "casioqv" <casioqv@usermail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 9, 2022 12:53:01 PM Subject: Re: M15 hoist lifting bridle or sling I wanted to follow up on this, as I have now been launching my M15 regularly using a hoist (see photo). I ended up making a 3-way lifting harness with a large stainless steel ring in the center for the hook, and three snap shackles to attach to the boat. I connect two forward snap shackles to the aft shroud adjusters, and the third to one of the stern dock cleats. The dock cleat line carries very little weight, most is on the stay adjusters. I found that I need to temporarily add extra pins to the shroud adjusters to get a good spot to clip the snap shackles onto, which I then remove before sailing. The line itself is just standard three strand dock lines, which should have at least 4,000lb of breaking strength. I was a little nervous the first time, but it seems to be working great so far. I initially did it with bowlines plus half hitches connecting the lines, but am going to re-do it all with eye splices for extra safety now that I am sure about the line lengths. I've also purchased some toggle pins with lanyards (link below) to make adding and removing the extra pins from the shroud adjusters quicker. For reference, my boat has the standard, widely available Hobie Cat stay adjusters with 1/4" holes. https://www.catalinadirect.com/shop-by-boat/capri-22/rigging/standing-riggin... Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157 Defiant ----- Original Message ----- From: "casioqv" <casioqv@usermail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2022 1:33:10 PM Subject: M15 hoist lifting bridle or sling Hi All, My yacht club doesn't have a boat ramp, but does have a hoist for lifting sailboats that I am interested in trying with my M15. The hoist is a single point (hook). Does anyone here have any experience or suggestions on what type of lifting bridle or sling I could use for an M15? Would it be okay to lift by the chainplates, or should I plan on straps that go under the hull? Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157 Defiant
Nice! Looks like you launch with mast down. If you put a shackle in the aft chainplate hole and clipped to that instead would that work and allow launching w mast up? On Thu, Nov 17, 2022 at 11:07 AM <casioqv@usermail.com> wrote:
Another followup with photos. Here is my "final" version 2.0 of my M15 lifting bridle. I used a stronger line, assembled it all with eye splices instead of knots, and added quick release toggle pins which are tethered to the bridle so they can't drop in the water. I store it all in a nylon mesh "reusable vegetable bag" which keeps it from getting moldy or chafed when not in use. If I make a 3.0 version I will eye splice directly to the hardware instead of looping it through as I did.
Line: 1/2" nylon 3 strand anchor line, tensile strength 7500lbs (10x boat weight)
Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157 Defiant
----- Original Message ----- From: "casioqv" <casioqv@usermail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 9, 2022 12:53:01 PM Subject: Re: M15 hoist lifting bridle or sling
I wanted to follow up on this, as I have now been launching my M15 regularly using a hoist (see photo). I ended up making a 3-way lifting harness with a large stainless steel ring in the center for the hook, and three snap shackles to attach to the boat. I connect two forward snap shackles to the aft shroud adjusters, and the third to one of the stern dock cleats. The dock cleat line carries very little weight, most is on the stay adjusters. I found that I need to temporarily add extra pins to the shroud adjusters to get a good spot to clip the snap shackles onto, which I then remove before sailing. The line itself is just standard three strand dock lines, which should have at least 4,000lb of breaking strength.
I was a little nervous the first time, but it seems to be working great so far. I initially did it with bowlines plus half hitches connecting the lines, but am going to re-do it all with eye splices for extra safety now that I am sure about the line lengths.
I've also purchased some toggle pins with lanyards (link below) to make adding and removing the extra pins from the shroud adjusters quicker. For reference, my boat has the standard, widely available Hobie Cat stay adjusters with 1/4" holes.
https://www.catalinadirect.com/shop-by-boat/capri-22/rigging/standing-riggin...
Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157 Defiant
----- Original Message ----- From: "casioqv" <casioqv@usermail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2022 1:33:10 PM Subject: M15 hoist lifting bridle or sling
Hi All,
My yacht club doesn't have a boat ramp, but does have a hoist for lifting sailboats that I am interested in trying with my M15. The hoist is a single point (hook). Does anyone here have any experience or suggestions on what type of lifting bridle or sling I could use for an M15? Would it be okay to lift by the chainplates, or should I plan on straps that go under the hull?
Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157 Defiant
I just took the photo with the mast down, but I actually launch with the mast up, using the same chainplate that is holding up the mast. There is enough slack in the shrouds that this won't damage them, but I remove the toggle pins when sailing. Sincerely, Tyler ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Conley" <conley.alex@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2022 1:11:55 PM Subject: M_Boats: Re: M15 hoist lifting bridle or sling Nice! Looks like you launch with mast down. If you put a shackle in the aft chainplate hole and clipped to that instead would that work and allow launching w mast up? On Thu, Nov 17, 2022 at 11:07 AM <casioqv@usermail.com> wrote:
Another followup with photos. Here is my "final" version 2.0 of my M15 lifting bridle. I used a stronger line, assembled it all with eye splices instead of knots, and added quick release toggle pins which are tethered to the bridle so they can't drop in the water. I store it all in a nylon mesh "reusable vegetable bag" which keeps it from getting moldy or chafed when not in use. If I make a 3.0 version I will eye splice directly to the hardware instead of looping it through as I did.
Line: 1/2" nylon 3 strand anchor line, tensile strength 7500lbs (10x boat weight)
Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157 Defiant
participants (7)
-
Alex Conley -
AT&T Account -
casioqv＠usermail.com -
Dave Scobie -
Gary H.Oberbeck -
jerry montgomery -
John Schinnerer