yep, not releasing the sail sheets would hold many boats MUCH larger than the M15 in a knockdown orientation. boats where the sheets are still cleated and the sails in the water will likely only come up after the rig comes off the boat, or the next breaking wave rolls the boat back 'up' (and usually removing the rig), or the crew lets go or cuts the sheets. the latter is the best solution ;-) when going to into the wind usually weather helm or a rudder stall will round the boat up before she goes over ... except in a sudden and 'large' gust. most knock downs occur when a boat is off the weather as it is much harder to get the air out of the sails and the boat is more likely to be rolled by a breaking wave. another thing to remember is that the crew in the M15 makes up a high percentage of the boat's weight. i weight just over 25% of the M15's 'dry boat weight'. i can really change an M15's orientation on the water by where i sit/stand. now think how two guys my weight can adjust the M15's orientation! i'm much more nervous in high wind situation when off the wind v. going to weather. at times i've doused the main and just gone off the wind with the headsail ... much easier to dump all the wind in the jib than the main when off the wind. NOTE: this last comment is only for going off the wind ... going to weather i have a completely different opinion on how to sail the M15 in high wind. my other practice is to always have the main sheet in my hand. this means i can loose the sheet quickly (ie, i don't have to find it in the cockpit footwell. the other practice is having a knife on my body to cut a snagged sheet, line, whatever. :: Dave Scobie --- On Mon, 4/1/13, Chris Smith <chris.r.smith@gmail.com> wrote:
You know, now thinking back I don't think she went full turtle. I can recall 2 times that I had a full knockdown (though I think there were 3 times..) and both times the mast was in the water and the boat was not righting. The first time iirc, we were travelling upwind at quite a clip, and I was not able to let out enough sail fast enough, or round out to prevent the sail from going under. The second time I was travelling downwind with the main almost full out to starbird. The wind shifted slightly and, due to the unbalanced weight in the cockpit (I think), the boat went over to port. Both times I was able to swim around to the bottom of the boat and grab the keel and pull down far enough that another person could hang on it while i pushed up on the mast and sail, trying to get water out of it. I don't think I had the presence of mind, in either case, to uncleat the sail. I think I was running main only on both of these occasions, as well.
I attributed the boat not going full turtle to some quick thinking and action on my part, but perhaps I'm overestimating myself and underestimating Lyle and Jerry's design and build!
I'm happy to reminisce about my sailing fails, having learned important lessons from each! There was one time I got caught in a tree...
On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 9:30 AM, Tom Smith <openboatt@gmail.com> wrote:
I've never heard of an M15 going turtle either. I guess there's a first for everything, but like Dave, I'd like to know more. T
On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 7:26 AM, W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> wrote:
Chris:
when you write turtled do you mean your boat was completely inverted and stayed that way?
or do you mean she mast in the water (more than 90 degrees) in a full knockdown?
where your sail sheets (main and jib) loose or still cleated?
just curious as your writing is the first i've read of such a thing happening.
:: Dave Scobie
--- On Mon, 4/1/13, Chris Smith <chris.r.smith@gmail.com> wrote:
Just to confirm what Daniel was saying, I've turtled my M15 a couple times for various reasons. Luckily I had a couple people with me, each time, so I had them hang on the keel while I tried to empty the sail of water. The boat popped up quickly with a surprisingly small amount of water in the cabin, but I'd hesitate to call the M15 'self righting'.
-- Chris