John - If you mount the track 'between' the seat tops just below or flush - you will have reduced the amount of travel by a substantial amount taking into account the width of the traveler car (w i d e) very little windward sheeting effect would be realized. Especially after installation of the controls at each end. I believe Jerry and I are at odds on this issue - he's nutz anyway! I carry my mainsheet ever so slightly to weather ONLY when sheeted in 101% and I see NO penalty in pointing and a benefit in speed as the rig doesn't overpower the keel/rudder. In other words the boat goes faster upwind with LESS leeway - this has been verified to my level of amusement with speedo and sailing next 'known quantity' boat to compare. I haven't seen that the keel/CB on a 17 is capable of taking the over trimmed mainsail position and translating it into forward movement at such tight weather angles (whew - some 'scary talk' there!) Just my opinion - Make your traveler fit your needs - racing or R/Cruise or ? I wouldn't worry about 'lost advantage' not having traveler move to weather - It hasn't shown it's face in my opinion. Just ANOTHER one of my 'kia' rants - Make your cockpit work for you! ( I just hate people spending $500+ bucks on a set of parts that will provide little benefit and would be better spent on a new mainsail!) Disclaimer - this applies to M-17's only -I haven't played with the travelers on my 15 or a 23. Have fun working on your boat - that and sailing them are the reason. Take Care,Have Fun, Go Sailing! GO In a message dated 11/19/2015 2:09:40 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, john@eco-living.net writes: Sounds like what came as a former owner modification with my M-17 Pajarita. Your explanation helps me grok what was initially a somewhat confounding piece of hardware. So I'll be able to use it more effectively. However Pajarita's was mounted atop the cockpit seats, interfering with the lounging feature of the long cockpit, and increasing obstruction of companionway. I like how it works for windward trim, and, I don't like the seat and companionway interference. I am pondering re-mounting it between the cockpit seats - flush with top, or even a little below. This would somewhat reduce companionway obstruction, remove the seating/lounging interference, require cutting it down in width a bit, but retain most of the windward trim value. Any thoughts from anyone on that modification? thanks, John S. On 11/19/2015 12:27 PM, Bill Wickett wrote:
Bones may have meant a windward sheeting traveller. Harken makes this. Has been one of the best additions to Makin' Time I have made. I have been much more likely to make traveller adjustments with it as a habit, vs the OEM pin stop traveller.
Requires new track as well as a new car, and a couple of standing blocks (optional)and strap eyes on the sides of the cockpit well. The new track did not have the same hole spacing as the old unfortunately. So a bit of time potting the old holes and oversize drilling, potting and redrilling the new holes. Was so worth it for me. Oh yeah, crawling under the cockpit and hack sawing off the projecting bolt ends. We stored a fair bit of stuff there and it was surprising how much difference a 1/2" extra bolt length meant in not catching on stuff. Cut them off while on a 25nm passage across Lake Ontario. Put the tiller pilot on, Julie kept watch and I went below.
The leeward pressure of the main sheet connected to the traveller car opens the leeward cam cleat, allowing you to pull to windward to get the car above center, without having to uncleat the leeward car. That same leeward pressure allows the windward cam cleat to close. A very one handed operation.
We use the traveller adjustment much more than the main sheet when tacking to windward.
On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 10:29 AM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
What is a "self sheeting traveler"?
On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 7:59 AM, bownez@juno.com <bownez@juno.com> wrote:
Hey Josh,
Sean Mulligan had the only M23 I have seen with a dodger. He sold Dauntless to some other M boat folks. I have jib cars on my M23, I think most folks just clip blocks onto the toe rail.
If you are anxious to spend money on hardware, I would recommend a self sheeting traveler. I love mine.
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