Hi Dave, Sorry, the spec is 3hp on my motor not the stated 3.5. It is the 2012 model with a little better battery life 18+amp hours. Again, that drops with throttle, especially against any head wind, current, tide. Again, it has been great for what I use it for. I have a solar panel that easily charges my marine battery but would love to be able to charge my motor battery with same. I understand that it is possible (without having to buy the Torqueedo $500 solar charger!). Randy M-17 Fore Play -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 8:40 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 115, Issue 11 Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com You can reach the person managing the list at montgomery_boats-owner@mailman.xmission.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Yamaha 4hp or Mercury 3.5hp on M17 (Joe Murphy) 2. Re: Yamaha 4hp or Mercury 3.5hp on M17 (GARY M HYDE) 3. Re: 3-4hp outboard feasibility (David Gilroy) 4. Re: Anchoring (Larry E Yake) 5. List serve access (V Gates) 6. Re: List serve access (GILASAILR@aol.com) 7. Re: Anchoring (Bill Wickett) 8. Re: Anchoring (W David Scobie) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 19:03:13 -0400 From: "Joe Murphy" <seagray@embarqmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Yamaha 4hp or Mercury 3.5hp on M17 Message-ID: <AB2745CFCE4644A093784986686A52C6@D72VSMG1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" When I was shopping for the OB for my M17 I wanted a shaft length at least 20".I found the HP; weight; shaft length; Internal (I)or expternal (E) fuel tank; and, alternator capacity for the following major outboard manufacturers: Mercury, Nissan, Tohatsu (all made by Tohatsu) 3.5 hp; 43#; 20"; .26gal I; NA alt 4 hp; 59#; 15", 20"; 5 amp 6 hp; 59#; 15", 20",25"; E; 5 Yamaha 4 hp; 62#; 15", 20"; E; 6 amp 6 hp; 62#; 15", 20"; 6 amp Honda 2 & 2.3 hp; 27#; 20"; .26 gal I; NA alt 5 hp; 61#; 20"; E; 6 amp Evinrude 4 hp; 59#; 20"; .3 gal I 6 hp; 59#; 20", 25"; E In the end I chose the Tohatsu. It was only one of two that offered a 25" shaft. I'm glad I got the 25" shaft. The bottom of the transom clears the top of the prop not much more than a couple of inches. On more than one occasion I've had quartering waves that lifted SeaFrog's rump high enough to make the engine roar. The only other OB with a 25" shaft was the Evinrude but I couldn't find out if it had an alternator. As it turned out, I went to a OB mechanic to get the alternator installed (it's a dealer installed option). He said he'd be happy to take my money but he said I'd be wasting my money. The so-called amp claim is based on running the engine at just about full bore. Something I never do. He said I'd be happier with a decent quality 5 amp solar panel. But to be honest, I have a fairly good share of electronics aboard. VHF, GPS, during the day plus running lights at night. And then a cabin light in the evening. I've been out for 4 day trips and never g ot the battery below 75%. I have a solar panel, but still haven't used it. Joe SeaFrog M17 ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Jenkins To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 4:23 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Yamaha 4hp or Mercury 3.5hp on M17 Dave, As always, you conveyed much good information, but I have to disagree about one point. My electric motor is a better way to get in and out of docks than a Honda 2, and it does fine for a few miles in relatively flat conditions, even against a stiff wind. No gasoline or gasoline fumes on board is a real plus, and in my case carrying my Honda 5 from the car to the bracket becomes a greater challenge as the years roll on. On Sep 24, 2012, at 12:50 PM, W David Scobie wrote:
to add another point of view on this topic -
i believe the best motor for the M17 is 4HP. the best motor that _was_ available _was_ the 'old' yamaha 4HP, 4-cycle, long shaft. this motor weighted about 40ish pounds, had an external fuel tank option, had F-N-R gearing and was water cooled. the sad truth is yamaha discontinued the 'old' 4HP powerhead and now uses, like most outboard manufacturers, the same powerhead as the 6HP ... the difference is in the carburetor.
for this reason you are hauling around the extra weight of a 6HP motor ... both 6HP and the weight are not needed on the M17.
the bonus' with a 6HP motor is you get into the range of outboards that have an alternator ... but you are running the motor at such low RPM (ie, 6HP is way more motor than needed) you likely are getting little, if any, current from the alternator. the second 'bonus' is an external fuel tank.
i have a Suzuki 4HP outboard on my M17. HEAVY motor that hasn't failed me; but also hasn't been 'my favorite' motor. the Suzuki 4HP is the same as the 6HP but without an external fuel tank and a different carb. i have motored into 3' seas, 20+ knot headwinds, and with/against some strong tides with no concerns (remember, when 'battling' tides you really can't overcome the M17's hull-speed limitation so understand how fast she will go and how she will behave when the tide is with, or against, you). again, 4HP is a good 'size' match for the M17.
There is the 3.5HP Merc/Tohatsu (Tohatsu makes the motor) as was already shared. at a light 43# dry weight in the long shaft model this is a good weight and 'power' combination. the issue comes if you can find a modification for an external fuel tank. Tohatsu also makes the Nissan outboards.
Honda's 5HP is very popular on the M17s. good and reliable motor that has an external fuel tank, F-N-R gears ... but weights in at 60#.
there are some folks using short shaft outboards on M17s with adjustable height outboard brackets. I have seen this with 2.5 to 3.5 outboards that only come in short-shaft versions. the negative is if there is weight (such as me at 220#) at the bow the prop will experience cavitation. there is also an issue of cavitation if motoring into a high sea ... more than a few-ish feet.
warning ... when using a water cooled outboard cavitation likely means the motor isn't able to get water and this will quickly destroy the cooling system impeller and then the motor.
'paintboy' (aka, Stan) did mention the Honda 2HP. this is a very nice motor. i use this motor myself and have always found it to be reliable. this is from using a number of Honda 2HPs ... i currently use three and had one on my M15.
the 2HP is enough to push an M17 at acceptable motoring speeds in calm-ish seas and calm-ish winds (about 4.5 knots). the weight of the honda 2HP is also great! about 30# including the long shaft, oil and fuel. the negative is there is no 'official' external fuel tank option. as the motor is air cooled you also avoid the issue of water pump failure and maintenance (paying someone to do the maintenance on a water pump is _expensive_).
for 'just going from the dock and back' the 2HP Honda cannot be beat.
the next best is, if you can find one, the 'old' 40# 4HP Yamaha.
in closing an important consideration: if you are not into doing your own motor maintenance purchase an outboard from a local shop that can also do the servicing. having a 'local guy or gal' that can service the motor is a great help.
oh ya ... one more thing ... Ronald, do you expect to get you M17 in time to attend the Lake Havasu Pocket Cruisers Convention? a great event you should have on your 'bucket list'.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Sun, 9/23/12, Ronald McNeil <ronaldwmcneil@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi, I have a new M17 on order and I?m now shopping for a motor. I was planning to go with the Yamaha 4hp, but if I go with the Mercury 3.5 it would only weigh 40lbs vs. 60lbs, which I like. My biggest concern I guess with either of these is their ability to motor into a strong head wind. Does any have experience motoring in stong wind with these or like size motors on an M17?
------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 16:27:55 -0700 From: GARY M HYDE <gmhyde1@mac.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Yamaha 4hp or Mercury 3.5hp on M17 Message-ID: <1BA19A67-E364-4E24-BFFD-75CDECB6D759@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 My 4hp Yamaha burns about 1.1 Liter/hr at full throttle and pushes my M17 at hull speed, 5.3 knots. At 4 knots, it only burns about 0.5 Liter/hr, so it's putting out about 2 hp at 4 knots, which is a nice cruising speed for motoring. So a 2 hp outboard will push an M17 at 4 knots, and it takes 4 hp to get it up to 5.3 knots. All of this is of course in calm water. The only question then is, will the 2 hp handle the boat in a heavy wind or current when you aren't using the sails. One M17 owner told me that his Yamaha 2.5 hp was marginal in the San Juan Islands, but he seems to be doing ok with it, even though it has the short 15-inch shaft and is not available in a long, 20-inch shaft. The Honda 2hp is available in a long shaft and is the lightest weight 4 stroke outboard I know of. Another consideration whether you want a remote fuel tank. The 4 hp Yamaha has that and it is very nice for motoring long distances. The internal tank only option for the 2 and 2.5 hp engines means refueling every hour or two, which can be challenging in rough water. Some folks have modified fuel tank caps to allow pumping fuel by hand into the internal tank from an external one, which is one solution. GARY ~~~~_/) ~~~~ M17 Hydeaway 2 GARY ~~~~_/) ~~~~ M17 Hydeaway 2 On Sep 24, 2012, at 1:23 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Dave, As always, you conveyed much good information, but I have to disagree about one point. My electric motor is a better way to get in and out of docks than a Honda 2, and it does fine for a few miles in relatively flat conditions, even against a stiff wind. No gasoline or gasoline fumes on board is a real plus, and in my case carrying my Honda 5 from the car to the bracket becomes a greater challenge as the years roll on.
On Sep 24, 2012, at 12:50 PM, W David Scobie wrote:
to add another point of view on this topic -
i believe the best motor for the M17 is 4HP. the best motor that _was_ available _was_ the 'old' yamaha 4HP, 4-cycle, long shaft. this motor weighted about 40ish pounds, had an external fuel tank option, had F-N-R gearing and was water cooled. the sad truth is yamaha discontinued the 'old' 4HP powerhead and now uses, like most outboard manufacturers, the same powerhead as the 6HP ... the difference is in the carburetor.
for this reason you are hauling around the extra weight of a 6HP motor ... both 6HP and the weight are not needed on the M17.
the bonus' with a 6HP motor is you get into the range of outboards that have an alternator ... but you are running the motor at such low RPM (ie, 6HP is way more motor than needed) you likely are getting little, if any, current from the alternator. the second 'bonus' is an external fuel tank.
i have a Suzuki 4HP outboard on my M17. HEAVY motor that hasn't failed me; but also hasn't been 'my favorite' motor. the Suzuki 4HP is the same as the 6HP but without an external fuel tank and a different carb. i have motored into 3' seas, 20+ knot headwinds, and with/against some strong tides with no concerns (remember, when 'battling' tides you really can't overcome the M17's hull-speed limitation so understand how fast she will go and how she will behave when the tide is with, or against, you). again, 4HP is a good 'size' match for the M17.
There is the 3.5HP Merc/Tohatsu (Tohatsu makes the motor) as was already shared. at a light 43# dry weight in the long shaft model this is a good weight and 'power' combination. the issue comes if you can find a modification for an external fuel tank. Tohatsu also makes the Nissan outboards.
Honda's 5HP is very popular on the M17s. good and reliable motor that has an external fuel tank, F-N-R gears ... but weights in at 60#.
there are some folks using short shaft outboards on M17s with adjustable height outboard brackets. I have seen this with 2.5 to 3.5 outboards that only come in short-shaft versions. the negative is if there is weight (such as me at 220#) at the bow the prop will experience cavitation. there is also an issue of cavitation if motoring into a high sea ... more than a few-ish feet.
warning ... when using a water cooled outboard cavitation likely means the motor isn't able to get water and this will quickly destroy the cooling system impeller and then the motor.
'paintboy' (aka, Stan) did mention the Honda 2HP. this is a very nice motor. i use this motor myself and have always found it to be reliable. this is from using a number of Honda 2HPs ... i currently use three and had one on my M15.
the 2HP is enough to push an M17 at acceptable motoring speeds in calm-ish seas and calm-ish winds (about 4.5 knots). the weight of the honda 2HP is also great! about 30# including the long shaft, oil and fuel. the negative is there is no 'official' external fuel tank option. as the motor is air cooled you also avoid the issue of water pump failure and maintenance (paying someone to do the maintenance on a water pump is _expensive_).
for 'just going from the dock and back' the 2HP Honda cannot be beat.
the next best is, if you can find one, the 'old' 40# 4HP Yamaha.
in closing an important consideration: if you are not into doing your own motor maintenance purchase an outboard from a local shop that can also do the servicing. having a 'local guy or gal' that can service the motor is a great help.
oh ya ... one more thing ... Ronald, do you expect to get you M17 in time to attend the Lake Havasu Pocket Cruisers Convention? a great event you should have on your 'bucket list'.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Sun, 9/23/12, Ronald McNeil <ronaldwmcneil@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi, I have a new M17 on order and I?m now shopping for a motor. I was planning to go with the Yamaha 4hp, but if I go with the Mercury 3.5 it would only weigh 40lbs vs. 60lbs, which I like. My biggest concern I guess with either of these is their ability to motor into a strong head wind. Does any have experience motoring in stong wind with these or like size motors on an M17?
------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 19:52:59 -0400 From: David Gilroy <dbakergilroy@sbcglobal.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: 3-4hp outboard feasibility Message-ID: <6F7A565A-726F-4989-A926-17B4C2053ECD@sbcglobal.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dera Randy, What brand electric is it? Best regards, Dave M-15 On Sep 24, 2012, at 3:22 PM, Randy wrote:
So, for 10 years I sailed with the 9.9Yamaha that came with my boat. And there were a few times that I was greatful for the power for getting across our 27 mile long lake in a big blow. Still, I hated not being able to see the full potential of sailing with a lighter engine. I have been using a 3.5 hp electric extra long shaft for a few months now (35lbs vs 110lbs also no gas on board). I have had it out is some pretty severe weather where I had to go directly upwind against 3-5'chop and 35+ wind. It is a slow go but works. The electric has improved sailing performance and is sweet to handle. The battery lifts off easily and weighs next to nothing. However, the estimated 20 hour battery life drops to 2 hours when you are pushing hard against a wind,current, tide, so you better not have to go far. If you go to a 4hp gas get the alternator. I will probably be in the market for a 4hp gas for longer trips. The electric is perfect to kick you out and back on short runs.
Randy M-17 ForePlay
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 9:11 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 115, Issue 9
Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com
You can reach the person managing the list at montgomery_boats-owner@mailman.xmission.com
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Yamaha 4hp or Mercury 3.5hp on M17 (Ronald McNeil) 2. Re: new member needing info for GPS systems (John Schinnerer) 3. Re: Yamaha 4hp or Mercury 3.5hp on M17 (Stan Susman) 4. Re: Yamaha 4hp or Mercury 3.5hp on M17 (August Trometer) 5. Re: Yamaha 4hp or Mercury 3.5hp on M17 (wcampion@aol.com) 6. Re: Anchoring (Tom Jenkins) 7. anchor (Karen Saville) 8. Re: Yamaha 4hp or Mercury 3.5hp on M17 (Rick Davies) 9. Re: anchor (Joe Murphy) 10. Re: Anchoring (Joe Murphy) 11. Re: Yamaha 4hp or Mercury 3.5hp on M17 (Joe Murphy) 12. Re: Yamaha 4hp or Mercury 3.5hp on M17 (SUSAN or AUGUST TROMETER) 13. Re: Yamaha 4hp or Mercury 3.5hp on M17 (SUSAN or AUGUST TROMETER) 14. Re: Anchoring (pam and dana) 15. Re: Anchoring (James Poulakis)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 10:08:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Ronald McNeil <ronaldwmcneil@yahoo.com> To: "montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: Yamaha 4hp or Mercury 3.5hp on M17 Message-ID: <1348420106.16915.YahooMailNeo@web45015.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hi, I have a new M17 on order and I?m now shopping for a motor. I was planning to go with the Yamaha 4hp, but if I go with the Mercury 3.5 it would only weigh 40lbs vs. 60lbs, which I like. My biggest concern I guess with either of these is their ability to motor into a strong head wind. Does any have experience motoring in stong wind with these or like size motors on an M17?
------------------------------
Message: 2 Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 10:08:43 -0700 From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new member needing info for GPS systems Message-ID: <505F421B.3020400@eco-living.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Yeah, as far as I know the GPS function for smartphones with GPS doesn't depend on cell (voice/text/data transmission) signal - no reason it should. The navigation app I have seen in use on an Android was on a Hilo-Maui passage and I am pretty sure there was no cell signal in the middle of the Alenuihaha channel!
cheers, John S.
On 09/21/2012 04:52 PM, Joe Murphy wrote:
Do the smart phones work off of cell towers and then the gps app work on it's own??? Joe SeaFrog M17
----- Original Message ----- *From:* John Schinnerer <mailto:john@eco-living.net> *To:* For and about Montgomery Sailboats <mailto:montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> *Sent:* Friday, September 21, 2012 1:09 PM *Subject:* Re: M_Boats: new member needing info for GPS systems
Aloha,
If you just want position and speed, don't need a full GPS, you can get handheld VHFs with basic GPS functionality of position and speed.
Also as recently mentioned, smartphones (Android and iPhone) can be used as GPS with chart/plot/course-tracking apps.
cheers, John S.
On 09/21/2012 09:20 AM, Joe Murphy wrote:
Hi Gordon, Welcome to the group. Determining what type of GPS to get goes back to the basic question of where do you sail. Like Bill says, if you sail where every destination is within sight and you don't have to worry about depths you probably don't need a GPS but it's nice to check your speed. Having a GPS really helps out when you are testing different options to improve your skills and speed while you sail... pull that line... let out that one, etc. I sail in the outer banks of NC. Everything is line of sight but just because you can see it doesn't mean to can sail straight to it. So my GPS is useful for keeping me in deeper waters, finding 'local knowledge' channels, and keep me away from other hazzards. I use a Garmin 276C. I had it on my previous 27' boat. I can charge it up at home and it will last 7-8 hours. If I'm out longer than that I can run it off the 12V battery on board. It's 8 years old and there are probably more state of the art units available. But it works for me. But as I said, what works for me may not be the optimal solution for you. I think if you figure out what you'll be doing and then try and find another similar sailor who's one part sailor and one part geek, you'll get your answer. Hmm, I think you may have come to the right group!! Good luck and enjoy your Monty. Joe SeaFrog M17 ----- Original Message ----- From: Karen Saville To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <mailto:montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:56 AM Subject: M_Boats: new member needing info for GPS systems
Hi, my name is Gordon Saville and have just joined. I have a M-17 would like to get more information on GPS sysems. Any information you might have would be appreciated.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net <mailto:john@eco-living.net> http://eco-living.net
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net http://eco-living.net
------------------------------
Message: 3 Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 10:36:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Stan Susman <stanpfa@pacbell.net> To: Ronald McNeil <ronaldwmcneil@yahoo.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Yamaha 4hp or Mercury 3.5hp on M17 Message-ID: <1348421769.62767.YahooMailNeo@web184705.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I push my M-17 with a Honda 2hp. I have been impressed with how well it does. I think it actually make more hp then 2. I think Honda now makes a 2.5 or maybe 3 that would be worth looking into, I really like the light weight. My boat is some what lighter then standard however I'm not sure if that's an advantage or a disadvantage when going into a stiff breeze
Stan
________________________________ From: Ronald McNeil <ronaldwmcneil@yahoo.com> To: "montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 10:08 AM Subject: M_Boats: Yamaha 4hp or Mercury 3.5hp on M17
Hi, I have a new M17 on order and I?m now shopping for a motor. I was planning to go with the Yamaha 4hp, but if I go with the Mercury 3.5 it would only weigh 40lbs vs. 60lbs, which I like. My biggest concern I guess with either of these is their ability to motor into a strong head wind. Does any have experience motoring in stong wind with these or like size motors on an M17?
------------------------------
Message: 4 Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 14:16:45 -0400 From: "August Trometer" <atrometer@gmail.com> To: "'Ronald McNeil'" <ronaldwmcneil@yahoo.com>, "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Yamaha 4hp or Mercury 3.5hp on M17 Message-ID: <001501cd99b7$980e47b0$c82ad710$@com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
I have a 2 cycle 2.5 hp Merc (Tohatsu) that pushes my M15 hull speed plus at about half throttle.
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Ronald McNeil Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 1:08 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: Yamaha 4hp or Mercury 3.5hp on M17
Hi, I have a new M17 on order and I?m now shopping for a motor. I was planning to go with the Yamaha 4hp, but if I go with the Mercury 3.5 it would only weigh 40lbs vs. 60lbs, which I like. My biggest concern I guess with either of these is their ability to motor into a strong head wind. Does any have experience motoring in stong wind with these or like size motors on an M17?
------------------------------
Message: 5 Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 15:02:15 -0400 (EDT) From: wcampion@aol.com To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Yamaha 4hp or Mercury 3.5hp on M17 Message-ID: <8CF67D51452C33C-794-1703C@Webmail-d113.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Ron,
I have the 3.5 Merc, long shaft and it works great at 1/2 throttle. However, I sail an M-15. I've never had a problem in strong winds. If it's too rough for me, I'll drop the sails and motor. No problems.
Skip
-----Original Message----- From: August Trometer <atrometer@gmail.com> To: 'Ronald McNeil' <ronaldwmcneil@yahoo.com>; 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sun, Sep 23, 2012 2:17 pm Subject: Re: M_Boats: Yamaha 4hp or Mercury 3.5hp on M17
I have a 2 cycle 2.5 hp Merc (Tohatsu) that pushes my M15 hull speed plus at about half throttle.
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Ronald McNeil Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 1:08 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: Yamaha 4hp or Mercury 3.5hp on M17
Hi, I have a new M17 on order and I?m now shopping for a motor. I was planning to go with the Yamaha 4hp, but if I go with the Mercury 3.5 it would only weigh 40lbs vs. 60lbs, which I like. My biggest concern I guess with either of these is their ability to motor into a strong head wind. Does any have experience motoring in stong wind with these or like size motors on an M17?
------------------------------
Message: 6 Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 14:27:30 -0700 From: Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Anchoring Message-ID: <3FA2931D-80E3-42CA-8346-FAD642C47F7A@gte.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Joe, T'was a pleasure to read your piece. Probably I should have remembered, but your boat looks just like our, expect for our hunter green canvas covers and the bottom paint. Are there tanbarks lurking beneath the covers? Tom
On Sep 23, 2012, at 10:07 AM, Joe Murphy wrote:
Yesterday was a perfect example of why Sept-Nov is THE sailing season here on the coast of North Carolina. The day started at 8 am pulling off the dock lines and by 8:05 we're in the ICW (Intracoastal Waterway). Not a breath of wind so we motored the 8.2nm and dropped anchor on Shackleford Island. The path took me through the Morehead City Turning Basin, the second largest port in NC across the Beaufort Inlet to Shackleford. Crossing the inlet was totally non eventful as there was still no wind and I hit it at just about the slack of low tide. A beach picnic was scheduled for the day. Another 5 boats (all power boats) were due to arive at 11. The reason I left at 8 was because I expected the trip to take something just short of that. But I got lucky and hit the last of the outgoing tide to the inlet which covered the first 6.5nm. Both the sound and the inlet were like a milk pond. At 9:30 we pulled straight into the beach. We averaged 5.4 kts! I had to check my GPS to make sure I had the distance correct. Yep, 8.2 thanks to a nice tidal current and a 6hp Tohatsu. I dropped the Guardian FX7 off the stern and let it pay out all the way to the beach and cleated it off. My mate took the Manson Supreme 15# to the bow and swung it off the front as far as possible. I hopped out and moved the bow anchor up onto the beach shoved it into the sand at the high water mark on the beach. Then I pulled in the slack from the stern anchor and recleated. With time to kill we had some more coffee as I listened to my m ate, David, somewhere in his 70's. He grew up 'down eas', has owned several boats (mostly at the same time) and bleeds salt water. While he poured coffee and some kind compliments my way on the anchoring he offered some observations to make life simpler. He smiled and said I may have thrown out the stern anchor a little too early. This was evidenced by the nearly 160' of line I laid out. We were in water never deeper than 5'!! Then I started rethinking my anchoring strategy. I watch him easily hold onto the Manson and walk it up to the bow. The Manson has a big roll bar that makes it easy to carry. Before he went forward he picked up the anchor and layed the 12' of chain overboard from the cockpit and left the WalMart hand basket in the cockpit sole. Then he just walked up the bow and chucked it in and cleated it off on the bow cleat. He made it look so simple. And this was a lot simpler than my "drop from the stern; cleat at the stern; walk the line bag forward ; cleat at the bow; walk back with the bag; and finally, uncleat the stern." David say's he's in his 70's but then slips up and talks about being a pilot in the Korean War!!! So... lessons learned and things I'll change. 1. Find a pair of knock off WalMart hand baskets and bring the one I have back to WalMart. Not like they really miss it or need the money, but I think it's bad mojo to keep it. 2. Save the mesh bag for backup line in case the anchor line isn't long enough. Putting the line back into the hand basket took no time compared to repacking the bag. Do I hear a bunch of 'I told you so, Joe'? 3. Take David sailing again real soon. We left around 3:00. The wind picked up to a respectable 8-10. We had a beam reach all the way back with a couple of close reaches. Seas picked up and there were a gazillion boats out. The tide was just starting against us but we still made it back in two hours. A respectable 4kts average Tip of the day. If your boat is covered with dew it will dry faster if you hose down your boat?? I learned that one from David too. Picture of the day. See attached. These are the famous Shackleford horses. They've been on this island for hundreds of years. That's hundreds, folks. Think about all the hurricanes. There are Vets that go out and give them shots and checkups and there's an organization that culls the herds. Interesting enough, they don't all hang around together like mustang herds. They have their own little mini herds. How cool is that? I wonder if they have their own little 'hoods'?? Enjoy. Redskins kick off in a few minutes. Later. Joe SeaFrog M17<IMG_0321.JPG><IMG_0336.JPG>
------------------------------
Message: 7 Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 14:36:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Karen Saville <karen.saville@yahoo.com> To: "montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: anchor Message-ID: <1348436196.19253.YahooMailNeo@web125704.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
I am curious, how do you retrive the anchor the chain the rod and get it all in the basket and stored in the locker. I cant picture that ? Go forward pull up anchor,hope its clean, lug anchor with chain?dangling overboard back to the cockpit?set anchor down, retrieve rode from somewhere and flake wet rod in basket,pick up anchor again,and place in the bottom of a full locker so the water can drain.? Where dose? the remaining rod store at anchor? In the cockpit all night? You cant put it in a locker at anchor or you might spring the hinge. I am not converted yet? Its not about how?quickly you can store your anchor, but how fast you can deploy it safely. I definetly need to improve my ground tackle. The boat came with a small fortress the smallest I think, I want to go bigger, a lot bigger.
------------------------------
Message: 8 Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 17:54:53 -0400 From: Rick Davies <jdavies104@gmail.com> To: Stan Susman <stanpfa@pacbell.net>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Yamaha 4hp or Mercury 3.5hp on M17 Message-ID: <CA+0OvVh_k1fHO_3UT0+B=G0sdZVPt9kWoE-BuR6GuDNzUypchQ@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
If you want to make a long passage against stiff wind and sea, the 2 horse Honda may be marginal, but then so are all the other small, light motors. You'll need something more substantial, 4-5 hp perhaps, and inevitably heavier. On the other hand, if you just want a kicker to get you in and out, and for making passages in benign weather, the small Honda's perfect. I've used one for five years, and am very happy with it. Drives the boat easily at 4-5 kts for hours at a time. Also is a real gas sipper. My estimate under easy conditions is around 30 - 40 mpg
Rick M17 #633 Lynne L
On Sunday, September 23, 2012, Stan Susman <stanpfa@pacbell.net> wrote:
I push my M-17 with a Honda 2hp. I have been impressed with how well it does. I think it actually make more hp then 2. I think Honda now makes a 2.5 or maybe 3 that would be worth looking into, I really like the light weight. My boat is some what lighter then standard however I'm not sure if that's an advantage or a disadvantage when going into a stiff breeze
Stan
________________________________ From: Ronald McNeil <ronaldwmcneil@yahoo.com> To: "montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 10:08 AM Subject: M_Boats: Yamaha 4hp or Mercury 3.5hp on M17
Hi, I have a new M17 on order and I?m now shopping for a motor. I was planning to go with the Yamaha 4hp, but if I go with the Mercury 3.5 it would only weigh 40lbs vs. 60lbs, which I like. My biggest concern I guess with either of these is their ability to motor into a strong head wind. Does any have experience motoring in stong wind with these or like size motors on an M17?
------------------------------
Message: 9 Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 19:14:55 -0400 From: "Joe Murphy" <seagray@embarqmail.com> To: "Karen Saville" <karen.saville@yahoo.com>, "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: anchor Message-ID: <F2C286F8C271447586C25723D474DB55@D72VSMG1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
When it comes time to retrieve the anchor I went forward and uncleated it at the bow. If the current is running like it did yesterday afternoon, I cleat it with a midship cleat that I got from Defender. http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|10391|292249|312057&id=92875 I can pull the anchor from there in the cockpit. I fake it into the basket which easily holds 120'. I lay the chain on top and then put the whole thing in a plastic bin right sized for the basket. Then the whole thing goes down below under the cockpit floor. I leave it out for as long as possible to let the basket drain into the bin. If anything is nasty I clean it in the cockpit. Most everwhere I've anchored has been nothing but sand so there's usually no mess. When at anchor the excess rode stays in the basket at the back of the cockpit. It's going to get wet anyway when you stow the rode that got wet anchored. The mesh bag (for the second anchor) has one advantage and that it is easily pulled out of the port locker. It too sits in it's own plastic bin so that as it drains/drys the water is contained. I can pull either anchor pretty quickly and get it deployed. Hope this helps. This is an ongoing finetuning excersise that I will tweek as I go along. Joe SeaFrog M17
----- Original Message ----- From: Karen Saville To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 5:36 PM Subject: M_Boats: anchor
I am curious, how do you retrive the anchor the chain the rod and get it all in the basket and stored in the locker. I cant picture that ? Go forward pull up anchor,hope its clean, lug anchor with chain dangling overboard back to the cockpit set anchor down, retrieve rode from somewhere and flake wet rod in basket,pick up anchor again,and place in the bottom of a full locker so the water can drain. Where dose the remaining rod store at anchor? In the cockpit all night? You cant put it in a locker at anchor or you might spring the hinge. I am not converted yet Its not about how quickly you can store your anchor, but how fast you can deploy it safely. I definetly need to improve my ground tackle. The boat came with a small fortress the smallest I think, I want to go bigger, a lot bigger.
------------------------------
Message: 10 Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 19:20:30 -0400 From: "Joe Murphy" <seagray@embarqmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Anchoring Message-ID: <1F2041C4C6544778993509A633B92BE2@D72VSMG1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I originally wanted the Hunter Green covers but I have the tan bark sails and the UV leech strip is Mohagany, so that's the color I chose for all the rest of the canvas works. I just wanted to keep with one color scheme. This past year I painted the bottom that ugly green. The first time I bottom painted I used black. This time I wanted a different color. So when I start to see black I know I'm starting to go through the last paint job. Next time I might go with rust/red. I wish I could find something in slime.... Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Jenkins To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 5:27 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Anchoring
Joe, T'was a pleasure to read your piece. Probably I should have remembered, but your boat looks just like our, expect for our hunter green canvas covers and the bottom paint. Are there tanbarks lurking beneath the covers? Tom
On Sep 23, 2012, at 10:07 AM, Joe Murphy wrote:
Yesterday was a perfect example of why Sept-Nov is THE sailing season here on the coast of North Carolina. The day started at 8 am pulling off the dock lines and by 8:05 we're in the ICW (Intracoastal Waterway). Not a breath of wind so we motored the 8.2nm and dropped anchor on Shackleford Island. The path took me through the Morehead City Turning Basin, the second largest port in NC across the Beaufort Inlet to Shackleford. Crossing the inlet was totally non eventful as there was still no wind and I hit it at just about the slack of low tide. A beach picnic was scheduled for the day. Another 5 boats (all power boats) were due to arive at 11. The reason I left at 8 was because I expected the trip to take something just short of that. But I got lucky and hit the last of the outgoing tide to the inlet which covered the first 6.5nm. Both the sound and the inlet were like a milk pond. At 9:30 we pulled straight into the beach. We averaged 5.4 kts! I had to check my GPS to make sure I had the distance correct. Yep, 8.2 thanks to a nice tidal current and a 6hp Tohatsu. I dropped the Guardian FX7 off the stern and let it pay out all the way to the beach and cleated it off. My mate took the Manson Supreme 15# to the bow and swung it off the front as far as possible. I hopped out and moved the bow anchor up onto the beach shoved it into the sand at the high water mark on the beach. Then I pulled in the slack from the stern anchor and recleated. With time to kill we had some more coffee as I listened to my mate, David, somewhere in his 70's. He grew up 'down eas', has owned several boats (mostly at the same time) and bleeds salt water. While he poured coffee and some kind compliments my way on the anchoring he offered some observations to make life simpler. He smiled and said I may have thrown out the stern anchor a little too early. This was evidenced by the nearly 160' of line I laid out. We were in water never deeper than 5'!! Then I started rethinking my anchoring strategy. I watch him easily hold onto the Manson and walk it up to the bow. The Manson has a big roll bar that makes it easy to carry. Before he went forward he picked up the anchor and layed the 12' of chain overboard from the cockpit and left the WalMart hand basket in the cockpit sole. Then he just walked up the bow and chucked it in and cleated it off on the bow cleat. He made it look so simple. And this was a lot simpler than my "drop from the stern; cleat at the stern; walk the line bag forwa rd; cleat at the bow; walk back with the bag; and finally, uncleat the stern." David say's he's in his 70's but then slips up and talks about being a pilot in the Korean War!!! So... lessons learned and things I'll change. 1. Find a pair of knock off WalMart hand baskets and bring the one I have back to WalMart. Not like they really miss it or need the money, but I think it's bad mojo to keep it. 2. Save the mesh bag for backup line in case the anchor line isn't long enough. Putting the line back into the hand basket took no time compared to repacking the bag. Do I hear a bunch of 'I told you so, Joe'? 3. Take David sailing again real soon. We left around 3:00. The wind picked up to a respectable 8-10. We had a beam reach all the way back with a couple of close reaches. Seas picked up and there were a gazillion boats out. The tide was just starting against us but we still made it back in two hours. A respectable 4kts average Tip of the day. If your boat is covered with dew it will dry faster if you hose down your boat?? I learned that one from David too. Picture of the day. See attached. These are the famous Shackleford horses. They've been on this island for hundreds of years. That's hundreds, folks. Think about all the hurricanes. There are Vets that go out and give them shots and checkups and there's an organization that culls the herds. Interesting enough, they don't all hang around together like mustang herds. They have their own little mini herds. How cool is that? I wonder if they have their own little 'hoods'?? Enjoy. Redskins kick off in a few minutes. Later. Joe SeaFrog M17<IMG_0321.JPG><IMG_0336.JPG>
------------------------------
Message: 11 Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 19:26:01 -0400 From: "Joe Murphy" <seagray@embarqmail.com> To: "Ronald McNeil" <ronaldwmcneil@yahoo.com>, "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Yamaha 4hp or Mercury 3.5hp on M17 Message-ID: <56FBCD642E144E5487E85736B1DB0FC4@D72VSMG1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
The 6hp Tohatsu weighs 55#. I've had mine for 3 years now. It runs great. I get quite a bit of tidal current from 1 to 2.5 kts and when I run out the Beaufort Inlet with S SW winds and an ebb tide or N winds with a flood tide it gets pretty rough. I've never had any problems getting through it. I have the retractable motor mount that makes it very easy to raise and lower the motor in and out of the water. It might be a little weighty but I don't think it has affected anything. Joe SeaFrog M17 ----- Original Message ----- From: Ronald McNeil To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 1:08 PM Subject: M_Boats: Yamaha 4hp or Mercury 3.5hp on M17
Hi, I have a new M17 on order and I?m now shopping for a motor. I was planning to go with the Yamaha 4hp, but if I go with the Mercury 3.5 it would only weigh 40lbs vs. 60lbs, which I like. My biggest concern I guess with either of these is their ability to motor into a strong head wind. Does any have experience motoring in stong wind with these or like size motors on an M17?
------------------------------
Message: 12 Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 19:57:34 -0400 From: SUSAN or AUGUST TROMETER <atrometer@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Yamaha 4hp or Mercury 3.5hp on M17 Message-ID: <51e7cc9d-0deb-4a5c-bca7-f119fa2bc2bb@email.android.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
The 6hp also has an alternator option.
August & Susan Trometer 5711 Longleaf Dr North Fort Myers,FL 33917 239 849 4681 Montgomery 15' SV #227 "Saffron" , Casita 17 LD RV Sent from my Kindle Fire
_____________________________________________ From: Joe Murphy <seagray@embarqmail.com> Sent: Sun Sep 23 19:26:01 EDT 2012 To: Ronald McNeil <ronaldwmcneil@yahoo.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Yamaha 4hp or Mercury 3.5hp on M17
The 6hp Tohatsu weighs 55#. I've had mine for 3 years now. It runs great. I get quite a bit of tidal current from 1 to 2.5 kts and when I run out the Beaufort Inlet with S SW winds and an ebb tide or N winds with a flood tide it gets pretty rough. I've never had any problems getting through it. I have the retractable motor mount that makes it very easy to raise and lower the motor in and out of the water. It might be a little weighty but I don't think it has affected anything. Joe SeaFrog M17 ----- Original Message ----- From: Ronald McNeil To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 1:08 PM Subject: M_Boats: Yamaha 4hp or Mercury 3.5hp on M17
Hi, I have a new M17 on order and I?m now shopping for a motor. I was planning to go with the Yamaha 4hp, but if I go with the Mercury 3.5 it would only weigh 40lbs vs. 60lbs, which I like. My biggest concern I guess with either of these is their ability to motor into a strong head wind. Does any have experience motoring in stong wind with these or like size motors on an M17?
------------------------------
Message: 13 Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 19:57:34 -0400 From: SUSAN or AUGUST TROMETER <atrometer@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Yamaha 4hp or Mercury 3.5hp on M17 Message-ID: <d6d5452e-e000-49a4-a4ad-a3bdfcb1d37f@email.android.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
The 6hp also has an alternator option.
August & Susan Trometer 5711 Longleaf Dr North Fort Myers,FL 33917 239 849 4681 Montgomery 15' SV #227 "Saffron" , Casita 17 LD RV Sent from my Kindle Fire
_____________________________________________ From: Joe Murphy <seagray@embarqmail.com> Sent: Sun Sep 23 19:26:01 EDT 2012 To: Ronald McNeil <ronaldwmcneil@yahoo.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Yamaha 4hp or Mercury 3.5hp on M17
The 6hp Tohatsu weighs 55#. I've had mine for 3 years now. It runs great. I get quite a bit of tidal current from 1 to 2.5 kts and when I run out the Beaufort Inlet with S SW winds and an ebb tide or N winds with a flood tide it gets pretty rough. I've never had any problems getting through it. I have the retractable motor mount that makes it very easy to raise and lower the motor in and out of the water. It might be a little weighty but I don't think it has affected anything. Joe SeaFrog M17 ----- Original Message ----- From: Ronald McNeil To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 1:08 PM Subject: M_Boats: Yamaha 4hp or Mercury 3.5hp on M17
Hi, I have a new M17 on order and I?m now shopping for a motor. I was planning to go with the Yamaha 4hp, but if I go with the Mercury 3.5 it would only weigh 40lbs vs. 60lbs, which I like. My biggest concern I guess with either of these is their ability to motor into a strong head wind. Does any have experience motoring in stong wind with these or like size motors on an M17?
------------------------------
Message: 14 Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 16:50:09 -0700 From: pam and dana <denko@broadstripe.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Anchoring Message-ID: <B15E9456-59CE-4A85-962D-7FFBE6789BB5@broadstripe.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Great story Joe. It is just a reminder that we should pay attention to our surroundings while we do our "strategies" and by all means, use the KISS method whenever possible. ?
Pam Port Townsend
On Sep 23, 2012, at 10:07 AM, Joe Murphy wrote:
Yesterday was a perfect example of why Sept-Nov is THE sailing season here on the coast of North Carolina. The day started at 8 am pulling off the dock lines and by 8:05 we're in the ICW (Intracoastal Waterway). Not a breath of wind so we motored the 8.2nm and dropped anchor on Shackleford Island. The path took me through the Morehead City Turning Basin, the second largest port in NC across the Beaufort Inlet to Shackleford. Crossing the inlet was totally non eventful as there was still no wind and I hit it at just about the slack of low tide. A beach picnic was scheduled for the day. Another 5 boats (all power boats) were due to arive at 11. The reason I left at 8 was because I expected the trip to take something just short of that. But I got lucky and hit the last of the outgoing tide to the inlet which covered the first 6.5nm. Both the sound and the inlet were like a milk pond. At 9:30 we pulled straight into the beach. We averaged 5.4 kts! I had to check my GPS to make sure I had the distance correct. Yep, 8.2 thanks to a nice tidal current and a 6hp Tohatsu. I dropped the Guardian FX7 off the stern and let it pay out all the way to the beach and cleated it off. My mate took the Manson Supreme 15# to the bow and swung it off the front as far as possible. I hopped out and moved the bow anchor up onto the beach shoved it into the sand at the high water mark on the beach. Then I pulled in the slack from the stern anchor and recleated. With time to kill we had some more coffee as I listened to my mate, David, somewhere in his 70's. He grew up 'down eas', has owned several boats (mostly at the same time) and bleeds salt water. While he poured coffee and some kind compliments my way on the anchoring he offered some observations to make life simpler. He smiled and said I may have thrown out the stern anchor a little too early. This was evidenced by the nearly 160' of line I laid out. We were in water never deeper than 5'!! Then I started rethinking my anchoring strategy. I watch him easily hold onto the Manson and walk it up to the bow. The Manson has a big roll bar that makes it easy to carry. Before he went forward he picked up the anchor and layed the 12' of chain overboard from the cockpit and left the WalMart hand basket in the cockpit sole. Then he just walked up the bow and chucked it in and cleated it off on the bow cleat. He made it look so simple. And this was a lot simpler than my "drop from the stern; cleat at the stern; walk the line bag forward; cleat at the bow; walk back with the bag; and finally, uncleat the stern." David say's he's in his 70's but then slips up and talks about being a pilot in the Korean War!!! So... lessons learned and things I'll change. 1. Find a pair of knock off WalMart hand baskets and bring the one I have back to WalMart. Not like they really miss it or need the money, but I think it's bad mojo to keep it. 2. Save the mesh bag for backup line in case the anchor line isn't long enough. Putting the line back into the hand basket took no time compared to repacking the bag. Do I hear a bunch of 'I told you so, Joe'? 3. Take David sailing again real soon. We left around 3:00. The wind picked up to a respectable 8-10. We had a beam reach all the way back with a couple of close reaches. Seas picked up and there were a gazillion boats out. The tide was just starting against us but we still made it back in two hours. A respectable 4kts average Tip of the day. If your boat is covered with dew it will dry faster if you hose down your boat?? I learned that one from David too. Picture of the day. See attached. These are the famous Shackleford horses. They've been on this island for hundreds of years. That's hundreds, folks. Think about all the hurricanes. There are Vets that go out and give them shots and checkups and there's an organization that culls the herds. Interesting enough, they don't all hang around together like mustang herds. They have their own little mini herds. How cool is that? I wonder if they have their own little 'hoods'?? Enjoy. Redskins kick off in a few minutes. Later. Joe SeaFrog M17<IMG_0321.JPG><IMG_0336.JPG>
------------------------------
Message: 15 Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 08:10:52 -0700 From: James Poulakis <picfo@comcast.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Anchoring Message-ID: <AA110307-5EEF-4B8D-A606-487AE2A825F6@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Dang, that's a handsome M-17.
Jim M-17 "Spirit"
On Sep 23, 2012, at 10:07 AM, Joe Murphy wrote:
Yesterday was a perfect example of why Sept-Nov is THE sailing season here on the coast of North Carolina. The day started at 8 am pulling off the dock lines and by 8:05 we're in the ICW (Intracoastal Waterway). Not a breath of wind so we motored the 8.2nm and dropped anchor on Shackleford Island. The path took me through the Morehead City Turning Basin, the second largest port in NC across the Beaufort Inlet to Shackleford. Crossing the inlet was totally non eventful as there was still no wind and I hit it at just about the slack of low tide. A beach picnic was scheduled for the day. Another 5 boats (all power boats) were due to arive at 11. The reason I left at 8 was because I expected the trip to take something just short of that. But I got lucky and hit the last of the outgoing tide to the inlet which covered the first 6.5nm. Both the sound and the inlet were like a milk pond. At 9:30 we pulled straight into the beach. We averaged 5.4 kts! I had to check my GPS to make sure I had the distance correct. Yep, 8.2 thanks to a nice tidal current and a 6hp Tohatsu. I dropped the Guardian FX7 off the stern and let it pay out all the way to the beach and cleated it off. My mate took the Manson Supreme 15# to the bow and swung it off the front as far as possible. I hopped out and moved the bow anchor up onto the beach shoved it into the sand at the high water mark on the beach. Then I pulled in the slack from the stern anchor and recleated. With time to kill we had some more coffee as I listened to my m ate, David, somewhere in his 70's. He grew up 'down eas', has owned several boats (mostly at the same time) and bleeds salt water. While he poured coffee and some kind compliments my way on the anchoring he offered some observations to make life simpler. He smiled and said I may have thrown out the stern anchor a little too early. This was evidenced by the nearly 160' of line I laid out. We were in water never deeper than 5'!! Then I started rethinking my anchoring strategy. I watch him easily hold onto the Manson and walk it up to the bow. The Manson has a big roll bar that makes it easy to carry. Before he went forward he picked up the anchor and layed the 12' of chain overboard from the cockpit and left the WalMart hand basket in the cockpit sole. Then he just walked up the bow and chucked it in and cleated it off on the bow cleat. He made it look so simple. And this was a lot simpler than my "drop from the stern; cleat at the stern; walk the line bag forward ; cleat at the bow; walk back with the bag; and finally, uncleat the stern." David say's he's in his 70's but then slips up and talks about being a pilot in the Korean War!!! So... lessons learned and things I'll change. 1. Find a pair of knock off WalMart hand baskets and bring the one I have back to WalMart. Not like they really miss it or need the money, but I think it's bad mojo to keep it. 2. Save the mesh bag for backup line in case the anchor line isn't long enough. Putting the line back into the hand basket took no time compared to repacking the bag. Do I hear a bunch of 'I told you so, Joe'? 3. Take David sailing again real soon. We left around 3:00. The wind picked up to a respectable 8-10. We had a beam reach all the way back with a couple of close reaches. Seas picked up and there were a gazillion boats out. The tide was just starting against us but we still made it back in two hours. A respectable 4kts average Tip of the day. If your boat is covered with dew it will dry faster if you hose down your boat?? I learned that one from David too. Picture of the day. See attached. These are the famous Shackleford horses. They've been on this island for hundreds of years. That's hundreds, folks. Think about all the hurricanes. There are Vets that go out and give them shots and checkups and there's an organization that culls the herds. Interesting enough, they don't all hang around together like mustang herds. They have their own little mini herds. How cool is that? I wonder if they have their own little 'hoods'?? Enjoy. Redskins kick off in a few minutes. Later. Joe SeaFrog M17<IMG_0321.JPG><IMG_0336.JPG>
------------------------------
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End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 115, Issue 9 ************************************************
------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 21:52:28 -0700 From: Larry E Yake <leyake@juno.com> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Anchoring Message-ID: <20120924.215228.3520.2.leyake@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The subject of anchoring has been covered pretty well, but I would like to add one comment. Retrieval from the stern is fine when things are quiet and calm, but if things start to get dicey in your anchorage, trying to pull in your anchor from the cockpit while your boat is laying broadside or quartering stern-to in the wind and waves is not good. Likewise, trying to haul it in from a bouncing foredeck, hunched over with an aching back and trying to hold on while pulling up the rode while your motor is cavitating is not too good either. I've come up with a technique that has worked well in these conditions. So well, in fact, that I use it all the time. On CornDog, my M17, the anchor lives in a large tupperware type tub in the port cockpit locker. The anchor is deployed over the side while traveling forward, cleated off on the stern, and then walked forward and cleated to the bow. The tub and extra rode stays in the locker, with the tail of the rode running from the bow cleat back along the toe rail, over the coaming, and under a corner of the locker lid. To raise the anchor, I take a wrap around the port winch with the tail of the rode and cleat it off. Then I go forward, uncleat the rode from the bow cleat and put it in a snatch block hung from the bow pulpit. The boat is now still anchored facing forward into the waves, but the line can be handled from the cockpit. Pulling it up is simply a matter of pulling on the rode coming from the winch and letting it tail naturally into the tub in the open locker right below. The boat stays straight and in control, you're hoisting from a position better for your back, and you're handy to the motor controls. If your anchor is hung up, you're already on the winch and can crank with a winch handle if needed. Obviously, you can only raise the anchor until your chain gets to the snatch block. For this reason, I only use 10 feet of chain. By the time the chain gets to the snatch block the anchor is off the bottom. If things are calm I'll walk forward, release it from the snatch block, let it swing back to the cockpit, and finish the retrieve. If things are still dicey or crowded, I'll let the anchor and chain dangle from the bow and motor out to where there is more room and depth to release it from the bow. To compensate for the shorter chain, if I'm worried about my anchor holding, I'll slide and 10 lb. mushroom anchor down the rode on a carabiner. Works the same as extra chain to keep the pull horizontal on the anchor itself. Larry Yake M17 CornDog "In a powerboat you get there sooner, in a sailboat you're already there." ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 22:49:50 -0700 From: V Gates <fairoaksca8139@gmail.com> To: "montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: List serve access Message-ID: <CAGQqTjVnt_=K3=2HVMHg3P_5Q7MRWS1hUeT7YLDJHOYpQJEa=Q@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Kerry and I are members of the list serve via our email fairoaksca8139@gmail.com. We haven't posted anything in almost two years. How do we go about posting questions or comments. regards, Valerie Gates ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 02:21:03 -0400 (EDT) From: GILASAILR@aol.com To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: List serve access Message-ID: <2765.3ede47fb.3d92a74f@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Valerie and Kerry, You just have posted to the list - nice and easy. Gary O M-17 ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 10:06:28 -0400 From: Bill Wickett <billwick@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Anchoring Message-ID: <CAFd5cDmw95+D22fvv2eXb__S2DqUt07mJQ7CybjJhF+fiz0FvA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Been a lot of good anchoring discussion here lately. Depending on weather we might only have 1 opportunity left this season. Larry, I know what you mean about trying to retrieve from the stern in sporting conditions. Nothing worse than trying to haul backwards or stern quarter to waves and wind. Thanks for the snatch block on the pulpit idea. Bill Wickett Makin' Time M17 #622 On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 12:52 AM, Larry E Yake <leyake@juno.com> wrote:
The subject of anchoring has been covered pretty well, but I would like to add one comment. Retrieval from the stern is fine when things are quiet and calm, but if things start to get dicey in your anchorage, trying to pull in your anchor from the cockpit while your boat is laying broadside or quartering stern-to in the wind and waves is not good. Likewise, trying to haul it in from a bouncing foredeck, hunched over with an aching back and trying to hold on while pulling up the rode while your motor is cavitating is not too good either. I've come up with a technique that has worked well in these conditions. So well, in fact, that I use it all the time. On CornDog, my M17, the anchor lives in a large tupperware type tub in the port cockpit locker. The anchor is deployed over the side while traveling forward, cleated off on the stern, and then walked forward and cleated to the bow. The tub and extra rode stays in the locker, with the tail of the rode running from the bow cleat back along the toe rail, over the coaming, and under a corner of the locker lid. To raise the anchor, I take a wrap around the port winch with the tail of the rode and cleat it off. Then I go forward, uncleat the rode from the bow cleat and put it in a snatch block hung from the bow pulpit. The boat is now still anchored facing forward into the waves, but the line can be handled from the cockpit. Pulling it up is simply a matter of pulling on the rode coming from the winch and letting it tail naturally into the tub in the open locker right below. The boat stays straight and in control, you're hoisting from a position better for your back, and you're handy to the motor controls. If your anchor is hung up, you're already on the winch and can crank with a winch handle if needed. Obviously, you can only raise the anchor until your chain gets to the snatch block. For this reason, I only use 10 feet of chain. By the time the chain gets to the snatch block the anchor is off the bottom. If things are calm I'll walk forward, release it from the snatch block, let it swing back to the cockpit, and finish the retrieve. If things are still dicey or crowded, I'll let the anchor and chain dangle from the bow and motor out to where there is more room and depth to release it from the bow. To compensate for the shorter chain, if I'm worried about my anchor holding, I'll slide and 10 lb. mushroom anchor down the rode on a carabiner. Works the same as extra chain to keep the pull horizontal on the anchor itself.
Larry Yake M17 CornDog "In a powerboat you get there sooner, in a sailboat you're already there."
------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 07:39:14 -0700 (PDT) From: W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Anchoring Message-ID: <1348583954.4793.YahooMailClassic@web121703.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 during the MSOG San Juan and Gulf Islands trip in 2011 i watched Larry 'doing his thing' many times. Larry's system is really good and efficient. he make it look easy! as CORN DOG will be at HPCC 2013 arrangements should be made to shoot a video of Larry's system and then posting on the net for all to see (and learn). Larry has lots of good systems ... if you can attend HPCC 2013 be sure to stop and take a look at CORN DOG. there is not a better maintained M17 on the water. the boat looks better than when she was delivered to her first owner. :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com --- On Mon, 9/24/12, Larry E Yake <leyake@juno.com> wrote:
The subject of anchoring has been covered pretty well, but I would like to add one comment. Retrieval from the stern is fine when things are quiet and calm, but if things start to get dicey in your anchorage, trying to pull in your anchor from the cockpit while your boat is laying broadside or quartering stern-to in? the wind and waves is not good. Likewise, trying to haul it in from a bouncing foredeck, hunched over with an aching back and trying to hold on while pulling up the rode while your motor is cavitating is not too good either.? I've come up with a technique that has worked well in these conditions. So well, in fact, that I use it all the time. On CornDog, my M17, the anchor lives in a large tupperware type tub in the port cockpit locker. The anchor is deployed over the side while traveling forward, cleated off on the stern, and then walked forward and cleated to the bow. The tub and extra rode stays in the locker, with the tail of the rode running from the bow cleat back along the toe rail, over the coaming, and under a corner of the locker lid. To raise the anchor, I take a wrap around the port winch with the tail of the rode and cleat it off. Then I go forward, uncleat the rode from the bow cleat and put it in a snatch block hung from the bow pulpit. The boat is now still anchored facing forward into the waves, but the line can be handled from the cockpit. Pulling it up is simply a matter of pulling on the rode coming from the winch and letting it tail naturally into the tub in the open locker right below. The boat stays straight and in control, you're hoisting from a position better for your back, and you're handy to the motor controls. If your anchor is hung up, you're already on the winch and can crank with a winch handle if needed. Obviously, you can only raise the anchor until your chain gets to the snatch block. For this reason, I only use 10 feet of chain. By the time the chain gets to the snatch block the anchor is off the bottom. If things are calm I'll walk forward, release it from the snatch block, let it swing back to the cockpit, and finish the retrieve. If things are still dicey or crowded, I'll let the anchor and chain dangle from the bow and motor out to where there is more room and depth to release it from the bow. To compensate for the shorter chain, if I'm worried about my anchor holding, I'll slide and 10 lb. mushroom anchor down the rode on a carabiner. Works the same as extra chain to keep the pull horizontal on the anchor itself.
Larry Yake M17 CornDog "In a powerboat you get there sooner, in a sailboat you're already there."
------------------------------ _______________________________________________ montgomery_boats mailing list montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 115, Issue 11 *************************************************