4" is a lot. Sounds like the sailmaker might not have noticed that the 17 has a backstay! Who made the sails? A sail with 4" of overlap will probably fight its way thru on a tack if there is good breeze but it would be a nitemare in a drifter. I'd get pushy with the sailmaker. ________________________________ From: John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, June 24, 2024 1:22 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> Subject: M_Boats: Re: Problems with new sail Thanks for pics... That looks like a LOT of interference. Mine is nowhere near that much, just the fullest part of the roach catches the backstay by an inch or so in very light air. And it's the batten that catches, if it were not near the batten it would probably just slide right thru. It could just be the angle of the photo, but the angle of the mast off the cabin roof and compared to the mast step bracket looks like a LOT of rake. Either that or the mast is leaning quite a bit to port, which seems unlikely I hope! The more rake the more roach interference you'll get, since more rake puts the sail further back, especially the upper part, and also reduces the distance between mast and backstay, especially higher up. A full side view showing the whole boat and mast would help us see the situation better. Also, do you have the standard masthead casting, with some overhang behind the mast to where the backstay attaches? If that was modified and the stay attaches closer to mast that would affect this also. My M17 is a 1974 also, #38, what's your hull #? cheers, John On 6/24/24 13:03, Jennifer Wood wrote:
Hi all thanks for all the replies. Some answers in short form:
* 1974 M17 * Not much rake if any, currently
I'll give it another go next time I get down to the dock. A good excuse to finally get around to adding some rake.
Here's a couple of pictures in profile with the new sail. To my eye I'd say it's about 4 inches. I can whip it over with effort, wasn't sure how much wear that adds...
Frankly the boat is neither under nor overpowered, so I didn't really set out looking for more sail area aloft.
Apologies in advance for any digital artifacts from removing sail numbers etc
On Mon, Jun 24, 2024, 1:12 PM John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
My main in very light air will just catch the backstay on my M17. Not by much. I have approximately the mast rake recommended by Jerry, maybe on the lower end of that range but still in that ballpark.
cheers, John
On 6/24/24 10:58, mike43067@gmail.com wrote:
I've had mains that brush the backstay. Might not be an issue. But if it overlaps by a foot or more you might want to have them trim it down. Mike
-----Original Message----- From: Jennifer Wood <jennifer@buskersguidetotheuniverse.org> Sent: Monday, June 24, 2024 1:14 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: Problems with new sail
Long story short, I asked for a sail cut to OEM size and shape, and they sent me one with a giant roach that hangs into my back stay.
When I asked them to fix it, this is the sail maker's reply. Is this for real, or is it a brush-off?
not completely surprised the sail hits the backstay...It would go through on a tack and is normal. Fully understand the customers mindset. We could trim some of the roach off not too big a deal
I can't see this working well in low winds, and bashing the sail into my rigging doesn't seem good for either.
Given how thoughtfully the boat was designed, is this going to mess with balance and performance?
Thanks for your thoughts.
--Jen
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com