On 10/26/2016 1:56 PM, Timothy JarviMD wrote: The racing boys can have their optimum aerodynamic efficiency with their deck-sweeper head sails (which is why they have a lookout sitting in the bow pulpit), but I'll gladly sacrifice optimum performance for good visibility. If the visibility deteriorates, and you are out sailing among the big boys, do you want to get run over and sunk by barges being towed far behind a tug.... that you can't see? I don't. Connie
Approaching Tall Ships or freighters?
Beautiful lake!!! WOW
Tim northern Lake Michigan
On Wed, Oct 26, 2016 at 1:54 AM, Howard Audsley <haudsley@tranquility.net> wrote:
None of my jibs have such a window, but if they did, it seems to me that is about where they should be. When running close to hull speed and heeled over, the foot and clew won't be that far off the water and a helmsman sitting on the high side will be raised up. You want to be able to see what is hiding behind that blind spot out on the horizon. I had a Tartan 37 slide across my bow once that I never knew was there and I doubt he knew I was there either. That was a bit scary. So a window like that would be nice to have.
If memory serves, a genny like that in the range of 150 to 155 was intended to be used in winds up to about 12 knots or so.........just about the time you start to notice the occasional whitecap. Some will go well beyond that and will be heeled over to 20 degrees or beyond. Once you get into that range, the eye position of the helmsman relative to the window is going to be changing even more.
On Oct 25, 2016, at 8:01 PM, John Schinnerer wrote:
A couple pix from Waldo lake showing the window in my 150 genny...one ghosting on a reach, the other wing & wing. That was one thought I had too...it would have to be heeled well over 15 degrees to get the rail close to the water, but sure, if it was way heeled over the window comes down...it would have to be pretty far in this case. Probably to the point where I should be downsizing the jib...! I could imagine Dave's thought, that it's not a standard M17 jib. The bag it's in has original hand written felt pen notation that it's the "cruising" genoa. It also has "[North]" written on it in that area, but it's not a North sails genoa, if that's what that is supposed to mean - or a Reggie Armstrong either IIRC, I'll have to look at the maker label again. It does match the dimensions pretty closely though. I have the PDF that someone shared some time ago, mast & rigging dimensions & weights. That is for a 2014 M17, with the forestay moved aft, but still, the 150 genoa measurements on that for luff, leach, and foot are all within a few inches of mine and the square footage within a few square feet. The window is more forward and higher than in the picture you posted Dave (might be . Other than that, shape looks much the same and dimensions are within inches. Maybe the window was put in after the fact, and/or it's not the original 150 but a matching size replacement...just makes me wonder, thanks for your various thoughts on the matter. cheers, John S.
On 10/25/2016 05:25 PM, Howard Audsley wrote:
Could it be up high so when the boat is heeled over 15 degrees or so and the rail is about to go under the window drops down to eye level......and that would be eye level from the high side?
On Oct 25, 2016, at 4:17 PM, John Schinnerer wrote:
Measured my "big" jib yesterday. Bag says it's the "cruising" genoa. Dimensions plugged into sail calculator say it's a ~150% jib.
It has a fairly large window, not unusually high but fairly long, and, quite high up. Too high to be functional, seems to me. Sitting in the cockpit, the view through the window is of the tallest treetops on the shore (if there are tall trees on the shore...). And I'm pretty tall, so for anyone shorter the view would be even higher. Maybe really tall rigs would be spotted before collision...not small boats or mast-less boats though. I can't figure out why a window would be put so high. Anyone have something like this on their jib? Any ideas why the window so high? cheers, John S.
-- ---------------------------------------- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design Member, The Sociocracy Consulting Group Governance by Design http://sociocracyconsulting.com 510-982-1334 ----------------------------------------
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com <keith-04.jpg><p9280118.jpg>