Peter, Be sure to leave clearance at the vang mast bail to clear the step and or hatch - check three times - attach once! go -----Original Message----- From: Gary Oberbeck via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> To: peterkick <peterkick@aol.com>; montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thu, Jan 24, 2019 3:45 pm Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sail opinions Peter, Place your vang attachment as low as you reasonably can on the mast and set the boom bail or attachment so it is at as close to a 45 degree angle from the boom to the mast - if you install a boomkicker - place it inside the vang triangle. Yes, your roach will probably hit the backstay - no biggie, if you are concerned you can use vinyl coated wire at the upper section of the backstay. (my boat has a full top batten and the mast now has a backstay flicker to aid in tacking) E-P sails are an excellent choice for the sails. Cant tell you if your boat is NorSea or not - Jerry's boats typically had the bow chainplate very close to the forward end of the deck - Norsea are typically back about 5" Enjoy - have fun,GO -----Original Message----- From: Peter Kick via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thu, Jan 24, 2019 4:48 am Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sail opinions Hi everybody, Noob here. From Maine. Currently in my new M17 (bird girl, formerly sea bear- either of those sound familiar?) Bird Girl is a 2001, niiice boat. I’m sailing in the Keys. Just in from the Marquesas— rain coming. Hope I don’t drive you crazy— lots of questions Q: is this a nor’sea boat? Q: mainsail has a bit more roach than the triangle can handle, so the sail sweeps against the backstay. Normal? (Elliott Pattison sails). Q: badly need a vang since the boom has to be totally flAt in order for it not to hit the backstay on a tack or a jibe... Can anyone suggest Correct spot for placement of a bail on the boom? Any an all comments most eagerly anticipated — Thanks Pete Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 24, 2019, at 1:40 AM, Sam <shunter@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Gary and John,
My M15 came rigged with slab reefing. I think it works quite well, and as far as I can tell, is comparable to the video John sent for holding the sail in the proper orientation to the boom when reefed. I just got a new main sail, set up with a bolt rope (same as the old one was). It sounds like I'm better off not using it loose footed, so I guess the question about how to appropriately attach the clew is sort of moot.
Happy sailing (or waiting for the snow to melt as the case may be),
Sam
M15 #272
On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 8:17 PM Gary Oberbeck via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Sam,The clew should be attached to the boom by the outhaul and a strap or piece of line around the boom or a sail slug at the clew itself.The sails are what powers your boat-their efficiency is dependent upon their shape and your proper setting and trim. If you value your sails ability to power the boat at it’s highest level - take them off the boom and roll them/store rolled in ‘sausage style bag’ indoors for maximum shape. If that is a PIA, store them however is easy,fast,convenient ,and expect your sails to have a shorter effective life-sails can ‘look great’ -clean with no stains or tears,all seams intact, and be WORN OUT by virtue of becoming misshapen. Support your local sailmaker (really) I believe they will tell you similar recommendations.Ultimately it is what works for you. Well cared for sails increase resale value.Yes-it is bad form to store a sail rolled onto a spar and carried that way in transit (chafe) but plenty of people do it.Many folk subscribe to - ‘it has three corners, it works as a sail’ others buy new sails every season, extremes both!Just my opinion - I have two+ suits- one for racing the others for everything else.My race sails help the boat sail fast and well.It is also rewarding to have a ‘well behaved’ and good performing boat due to excellent sails in very good condition, my opinion and worth at least 2 cents!Have fUn, go sailing!
Gary Oberbeck gilasailr@aol.com
-----Original Message----- From: Sam <shunter@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Mon, Jan 21, 2019 05:53 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sail opinions
Hi All,
Catching up on this loose-footed sail discussion: if you have a sail with a boltrope on the foot, is there any reason why you couldn't rig it loose footed? Is there some important component of the sail that will be missing if it was manufactured with a bolt rope? On an M15, should the clew be attached more securely to the boom (e.g. strap or something), or will the outhaul be enough when rigging loose footed?
Finally, someone mentioned bending on the sails each time the boat is set up. I've left my main on the boom since I bought the boat (the sail is ancient maybe the original, so I'm not much concerned with damaging it, and it makes for faster set up times). Is this considered "bad form" for sail longevity? Is there any reason to remove the sail after each time out, especially for a new sail?
Thanks,
Sam M15 #272
On Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 3:31 PM Bob Eeg <montgomeryboats@hotmail.com> wrote:
We do all our Sails loose footed main for the 15, 16 and 17. Including our NorSea 27.
Much better sail shape.
Bob
Sent from my iPad
not the boom) with loose foot - Less time spent bending on the sail. - Faster dousing the mainsail - release clew and drop halyard - no need to remove foot from track or sailslot.Disadvantage- Can't think of one. GO
-----Original Message----- From: sal glesser via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> To: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sat, Jan 12, 2019 1:16 pm Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sail opinions
Hi Mark, We've converted all of the boats to loose footed. Even our old Moore 24 performs better with a loose footed main. sal Sage Marine In a message dated 1/12/2019 12:59:21 PM Mountain Standard Time, mdvorscak56@gmail.com writes:
Loose footed main or bolt rope? Need to decide before I order sails. I'venever had a loose footed main but I know lots of people like them. Anybodywish to contribute to my education by listing the advantages anddisadvantages of each?Mark DvorscakM23 Faith
On Fri, Jan 11, 2019, 22:06 <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org wrote: I'd use no-stretch, and make the jib halyard 5/16; the size is needed to> make it hold on the winch and in the cleat.>> -----Original Message-----> From: Mark Dvorscak> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2019 8:20 PM> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M23 halyards>> Thanks for the info. Mine are all line and appear to be about 12mm. I think> I should be able to go down to 8 mm without any problems...>> On Fri, Jan 11, 2019, 16:38 <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org wrote:>> > Originally I used spliced halyards; probably 1/4 line on the main, and> > 5/16> > on the jib. 1/8 7X19 wire on all.> >> > -----Original Message-----> > From: Mark Dvorscak> > Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2019 7:27 PM> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats> > Subject: M_Boats: M23 halyards> >> > Anybody know what the original halyard line size was on the M23? Mine> feel> > like they are a little large for the sheave and I'm thinking of ordering> > some new ones.> > Mark Dvorscak> > M23 Faith>
On Sun, Dec 16, 2018, 08:31 Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com wrote:>
>>> Gary,> > >> > > The further from home you roam, the more equipment you need on board to> > > take care of the "unexpected" situations you will encounter.> > >> > > From my big boat experience: on my M15 I carried three anchors; a> small> > > Bruce; a small aluminum Danforth; and a small Fortress that I found at> a> > > Tag Sale. These covered sand, mud, rocky bottoms, with the Fortress> > > being a storm anchor with lots of chain and a very long rode.> > >> > > Then you need a fender board. This is just a 2" X 3" about 36" long,> > > longer is better, with a lanyard at each end.> >>>> If you try to tie up to a dock with pilings, and with a tide range, the> > > problem is that the boat will move so how do you keep the horizontal> > > fender against the piling? The answer is a fender board. You drop> two> > > fenders; adjust their height; and then outboard of the fenders, you> hang> > > the fender board. The fender board can rub against barnacles; it's> > > replaceable;, but it protects your hull from damage.> >>>> Now you have a 36" long surface that goes up against the piling; the> > > boat can move (waves / power boat wakes / tide) and the M15/M17 is> > > safely moored.> > >> > > OFF CENTER HARBOR website has a video showing you a neat way to rig> your> > > anchors, one in deep water the other at the beach, so that you can get> > > ashore, but then pull a line that moves the boat out to deeper water> for> > > safety overnight. The retrieve line is at the beach, or on board, so> in> > > the morning you pull on the line and the boat comes ashore so that you> > > can board, or go ashore again.> > >> > > Happy sailing,> > >> > > Connie> > >> > > On 11/29/2018 11:03 AM, Chuck via montgomery_boats wrote:> > > > When us the LPM?> > > >> > > >> > > > -----Original Message-----> > > > From: Gary Oberbeck via montgomery_boats<> > > montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> >> To: montgomery_boats<montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> > > > Sent: Thu, Nov 29, 2018 8:30 am> > > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Lake Pleasant AZ Winter Messabout ( replacing> > > WrinkleBoat Ran Tan for 2019)> >
tying in reef lines at cringles is easier/better accomplished and less potential for damaging sail (make sure the line is around the sail ONLY
On Jan 12, 2019, at 2:36 PM, George Iemmolo <griemmolo2@gmail.com> wrote:
Much contriversy if you do a goggle search.
I went to loose footed on my Pearson 23 and again on my M15. have been satisfied for all of the reasons stated above. George "We Can Not Control the Wind But We Can Adjust Our Sails"
On Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 3:44 PM Gary Oberbeck via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Mark, Try it - you'll never go back to a boltrope at the foot. Advantage - better sail shape on lower section of sail.
>> I'll take it's picture the next time I go to the Lake!> > > >> > >
>> -----Original Message-----> > > > From: doug<doug9326@gmail.com>>
> To: Gary Oberbeck<gilasailr@aol.com>; For and about Montgomery> > > Sailboats<montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> > > > Sent: Tue, Nov 27, 2018 1:11 pm> > > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Lake Pleasant AZ Winter Messabout ( replacing> > > WrinkleBoat Ran Tan for 2019)> > > >> > > > Thats funny. How about a sand anchor, dirt anchor. How far is that>
closest tree???> > > >> > > >> On Nov 27, 2018, at 11:51 AM, Gary
Oberbeck
via montgomery_boats<> > > montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:> > > >>> > > >> Which tree??> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> -----Original Message-----> > > >> From: jerry<jerry@jerrymontgomery.org>> > > >> To: PHILIP MCCOWIN<pmcc_imagen@mac.com>; For and about Montgomery> > > Sailboats<montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> > > >> Sent: Tue, Nov 27, 2018 12:45 pm> > > >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Lake Pleasant AZ Winter Messabout ( replacing> > > WrinkleBoat Ran Tan for 2019)> > > >>> > >
And we're going to have a fishing contest, and if successful, eat> > >
some> > > fish.> > > >> Dynamite is not allowed unless you bring a chainsaw to get the fish> > out> > > of> > > >> the trees.> > > >>> > > >> Be good to see you there, Phil.> > > >>> > > >> -----Original Message-----> >
From: PHILIP MCCOWIN via montgomery_boats> > > >> Sent: Friday,
November
16, 2018 3:59 PM> > > >> To: Gary Oberbeck ; For and about Montgomery Sailboats> > > >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Lake Pleasant AZ Winter Messabout ( replacing> > > >> WrinkleBoat Ran Tan for 2019)> > > >>> > > >> Hi Gary,> >
>>>>>>> Not involved with the Leukemia Cup Debacle? So, sailing for fun> > > >> instead?> > > >> Sounds Good, maybe the Long Steps will be ready!> > > >>> > > >> Phil> > > >>> On Nov 16, 2018, at 4:46 PM, Gary Oberbeck via montgomery_boats> > > >>> < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:> > > >>>> > > >>> Lake Pleasant, AZ Winter Messabout> > >> >> >> >> On Jan 11, 2019 16:38, < jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> wrote:>> Originally I used spliced halyards; probably 1/4 line on the main, and 5/16> on the jib. 1/8 7X19 wire on all.>> -----Original Message-----> From: Mark Dvorscak> Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2019 7:27 PM> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats> Subject: M_Boats: M23 halyards>> Anybody know what the original halyard line size was on the M23? Mine feel> like they are a little large for the sheave and I'm thinking of ordering> some new ones.> Mark Dvorscak> M23 Faith>> On Sun, Dec 16, 2018, 08:31 Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com wrote:>>
Gary,> >> > The further from home you roam, the more equipment you need on board to> > take care of the "unexpected" situations you will encounter.>
>> From my big boat experience: on my M15 I carried three anchors; a small> > Bruce; a small aluminum Danforth; and a small Fortress that I found at a> > Tag Sale. These covered sand, mud, rocky bottoms, with the Fortress> > being a storm anchor with lots of chain and a very long rode.> >> Then you need a fender board. This is just a 2" X 3" about 36" long,> longer is better, with a lanyard at each end.> >> > If you try to tie up to a dock with pilings, and with a tide range, the> > problem is that the boat will move so how do you keep the horizontal> > fender against the piling? The answer is a fender board. You drop two> > fenders; adjust their height; and then outboard of the fenders, you hang> > the fender board. The fender board can rub against barnacles; it's> > replaceable;, but it protects your hull from damage.> >> > Now you have a 36" long surface that goes up against the piling; the> > boat can move (waves / power boat wakes / tide) and the M15/M17 is> > safely moored.> >> > OFF CENTER HARBOR website has a video showing you a neat way to rig your>
anchors, one in deep water the other at the beach, so that you can get>
ashore, but then pull a line that moves the boat out to deeper water for> > safety overnight. The retrieve line is at the beach, or on board, so in> > the morning you pull on the line and the boat comes ashore so that you>
can board, or go ashore again.> >> > Happy sailing,> >> > Connie> >> > On 11/29/2018 11:03 AM, Chuck via montgomery_boats wrote:> > > When us the LPM?> > >> > >> > > -----Original Message-----> > > From: Gary Oberbeck via montgomery_boats<> > montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> > > To: montgomery_boats<montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> > > Sent: Thu, Nov 29, 2018 8:30 am> > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Lake Pleasant AZ Winter Messabout ( replacing> > WrinkleBoat Ran Tan for 2019)> > >> > > I'll take it's picture the next time I go to the Lake!> > >> > >> > > -----Original Message-----> > > From: doug<doug9326@gmail.com>> > > To: Gary Oberbeck< gilasailr@aol.com>; For and about Montgomery> > Sailboats< montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> > > Sent: Tue, Nov 27, 2018 1:11 pm> > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Lake Pleasant AZ Winter Messabout ( replacing> > WrinkleBoat Ran Tan for 2019)> > >> > > Thats funny. How about a sand anchor, dirt anchor. How far is that> > closest tree???>
>> On Nov 27, 2018, at 11:51 AM, Gary Oberbeck via montgomery_boats<>
montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:> > >>> > >> Which tree??>
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----> > >> From: jerry< jerry@jerrymontgomery.org>> > >> To: PHILIP MCCOWIN< pmcc_imagen@mac.com ; For and about Montgomery> > Sailboats< montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> > >> Sent: Tue, Nov 27, 2018 12:45 pm> > >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Lake Pleasant AZ Winter Messabout ( replacing> > WrinkleBoat Ran Tan for 2019)> > >>> > >> And we're going to have a fishing contest, and if successful, eat some> > fish.> > >> Dynamite is not allowed unless you bring a chainsaw to get the fish> out> > of>
the trees.> > >>> > >> Be good to see you there, Phil.> > >>> > >> -----Original Message-----> > >> From: PHILIP MCCOWIN via montgomery_boats>
>> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2018 3:59 PM> > >> To: Gary Oberbeck ; For and about Montgomery Sailboats> > >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Lake Pleasant AZ Winter Messabout ( replacing> > >> WrinkleBoat Ran Tan for 2019)> >
> Hi Gary,> > >>> > >> Not involved with the Leukemia Cup Debacle? So, sailing for fun> > >> instead?> > >> Sounds Good, maybe the Long Steps will be ready!> > >>> > >> Phil> > >>> On Nov 16, 2018, at 4:46 PM, Gary Oberbeck via montgomery_boats> > >>> < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:> > >>>> > >>> Lake Pleasant, AZ Winter Messabout> >>>>