I think, from what I've read, that Jerry prefers to keep everything pretty loose. He doesn't use a furler, though, as far as I know. On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 11:35 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Thanks for the details Keith...
What about safe loads on the compression post, keel, etc. - more stay/shroud tension also adds mast compression tension - anyone have any parameters for keeping that within safe limits?
cheers, John S.
On 10/31/2016 04:11 PM, Keith R. Martin wrote:
Hey George,
My M17 rigging is set to provide about 250lb of tension on my forestay... Just trying to keep the forestay as tight as I can while respecting safe working loads for the 1/8 cable. Not sure how useful/valid this info is when translating to your M15, given it's a different rig set up... Hopefully others can provide some commentary on this topic for your M15
Cheers
Keith
*Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.*
*Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353*
On 29 October 2016 at 17:30, George Iemmolo <griemmolo2@gmail.com> wrote:
*K*eith
I am sailing a M15 and the Reefing system uses a wire in the jib luff as the mast forestay along with the upper and lower rollers. No luff tape in this system. I did have a WWP 15 10 years ago with a system that had a extrusion and luff tape as did my last boat a Pearson 23. I had a Loos but it went with the Pearson when I sold it. What tension do you set your forestay to, I can borrow one for setting up next season.
Merry Helen II 96 M15 #602
George "We Can Not Control the Wind But We Can Adjust Our Sails"
On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 10:46 PM, Keith R. Martin < keith.richard.martin@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey George,
While I am not a "racing guy" and I don't try to wring out every last bit of speed, I do like maintaining my pointing ability heading into brisk/heaver winds... The CDI furler, pvc forestay extrusion and the jib luff padding all combined adds some distributed weight along the headstay resulting in "deeper/saggier" shape which can impair pointing ability into
brisk/heavier
winds.
So now with the furler installed I keep the headstay tension & related backstay tension a little higher to help maintain a flatter headstay
shape
while staying within reasonable bounds for the rigging ( I have a Loos gauge to measure the tension) all the while making sure I keep about 8"
of
mask rake which seems to work pretty well with my set-up ...
I am not saying that it points as well as a hanked on jib set-up, but in
my
experience the improvement is noticeable..
The Elliot Patterson website has a decent summary on head stay sag that
can
be found here -> http://www.epsails.com/Headstay%20sag.htm
Cheers,
Keith
*Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.*
*Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353*
On 27 October 2016 at 18:58, George Iemmolo <griemmolo2@gmail.com>
wrote:
Keith
Your comment on proper headstay tension is of interest as I have a 109
on a
CDI Furler. Can you elaborate a bit on the subject?
George "We Can Not Control the Wind But We Can Adjust Our Sails"
On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 3:41 PM, Keith R. Martin < keith.richard.martin@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey John,
I had an old 120/130 ish (more than a 109 and less than a 150) hank
on
head
sail that came originally with the boat...
For me I think there is a substantial safety benefit in a furler for single handing, which for me is most of the time ..
I now have a 109% on a CDI furler.. I have found it's been a good compromise for single handing the boat up and down the Georgia
straight.
Certainly there have been some lighter wind days in the summer that I
have
yearned for a bit more head sail, but there have also been plenty of
days
when I have had a reef or two in the main and been very thankful for
the
109 on the furler...
As we all know there is a trade off on pointing ability with a furler
and
particularly once the jib is partially furled hence my choice of a
109
that
allows me to defer "reefing the jib". That said the boat performs and points pretty well with no reef or a single reef in the main and the
109
on
the CDI fully deployed (with some attention paid to proper forestay tension) and has just okay performance when the 109 is furled just a
bit,
after that deeper furling is not all that stellar ( that's Canadian
for
it
sucks).
I toyed with putting a 120 on my furler when I first bought it but
frankly
I had not spent enough time in the boat in the straight to be sure it
was
the right choice for me...
In retrospect while a larger jib on the furler is probably okay for
summer,
the fall and spring shoulder seasons up here generally have no
shortage
of
wind, so I think the 109 is a good all season choice for my sailing
in
"my
hood" ...
Just my perspective on the choices I made for my boat and the local conditions I single hand sail in.
Keith
Keith R. Martin, P.Eng Serenity, M17 Hull #353
On Oct 26, 2016 7:21 PM, "John Schinnerer" <john@eco-living.net>
wrote:
Thanks, that means my 80%-ish Reggie Armstrong jib is probably the > original "high wind" jib. > I didn't get a 109% with the boat, just the 80% and the 150% genoa. > I mostly single-hand, or have passengers that are not really "crew" > (they
ain't gonna change a headsail under way), so something like the 109 > working
> jib would be nice to have. > > Or, a furling jib... > > cheers, > John S. > > > > On 10/26/2016 05:41 PM, Judith Blumhorst, DC wrote: > > Hi All, >> Just for those of you who are curious about sail sizes: >> That calculator is pretty cool, but it understates the real LP% >> > by a
small amount. The sail has a curved surface, but the calculator
>> > is
computing the shortest straight-line distance between two points
>> > on
the
curved surface. This kind of measurement is referred to as >> > "geodesic"
The
> true LP, when measured on the sail itself, will always be slightly >> > bigger
> than a geodesic-space calculation indicates. >> Sail design software computes dimensions along the curved surface >> > of
the
sail. >> BTW, according to the original sailplan that Jerry so generously >> > sent
me,
> there was an 80%-ish LP Heavy wind jib. Also a 109%, which is a >> > great,
versatile working jib for the M17. >> Regards,Judywww.HydeSailsDirect.com >> >> >> >> On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 2:04 PM, John Schinnerer < >> > john@eco-living.net
wrote: >> >> Tidying up my sails, finally doing some measuring... >> >>> >>> My "small" jib is not the 109% standard or working M17 jib, it's >>> >> quite
a
> bit smaller. Here's one calculator I found: >>> http://sailingfortuitous.com/apps/jibcalc.html >>> >>> This and other similar formulas found online put it at about >>> >> 81-82%
(luff
> 189", leach 160", foot 76"). In between a working jib and a true >>> >> (like
60-65%) storm jib. >>> >>> Also played with the outhaul method shown in that video I posted >>> recently. >>> Really a good idea AFAICT. Works as clew strap and outhaul both; >>> automagically balances the angle of pull on the clew. >>> >>> And, makes it much easier to move that same outhaul line to a >>> >> different
reef grommet - no need to tie or untie any knots on flapping sail >>> >> in
bouncing boat. Just loose the outhaul, pull out of current
>>> >> grommet
&
block,
>>> route back through new grommet & block & make fast. With a >>> >> boltrope
or
slug >>> footed sail of course. This would be a Very Bad Idea on a >>> >> loose-footed
main...! >>> >>> cheers, >>> John S. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design >>> -------------------------------------------- >>> - Eco-Living - >>> Whole Systems Design Services >>> People - Place - Learning - Integration >>> john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 >>> http://eco-living.net >>> http://sociocracyconsulting.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > -------------------------------------------- > - Eco-Living - > Whole Systems Design Services > People - Place - Learning - Integration > john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 > http://eco-living.net > http://sociocracyconsulting.com > > >
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir