Gerry- I'd say that 6 to 12" of rake seems about right- depending on what it does to the helm. 12" of rake on a 28" mast isn't that much. I'd play with it until helm and performance seems optimum. Some of the depenmds on the condition of the main; a blown-out main will effect the helm by moving the effective CE aft. You could have a new eye swedged onto the top of the headstay, which would shorten it by about 3" or so. That would allow you to do some adjusting of the turnbuckle. On the 23, shroud tension, both uppers and lowers, should be snug but not twanging tight. (Those are scientific terms). Backstay tension is very necessary to control headstay tension but not important by itself. -----Original Message----- From: Gerald Wyatt Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2018 4:01 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: M_Boats: M23 Rig Tuning - Mast Rake Hello, I was curious if any of the M23 owners would be willing share their rig tuning experience. I would also greatly appreciate some thoughts from Jerry if he is willing to respond. What is the proper amount of mast rake on an M23? One of the reasons I am asking is because my M23 forestay turnbuckle is set such that there is no room for adjustment. The threads from the forestay are threaded all the way into the turnbuckle and pinned. With the forestay shortened as much as possible, there is still quite a bit of mast rake on my M23. I think the rake is somewhere between 6" and 12" which seems excessive. I am considering ordering a shortened stay this winter so that I can actually adjust the length and set rake, but wanted to ask what the recommended rake was on an M23. I have had no problem controlling my M23 in higher winds, but I feel that the weather helm is a bit excessive when the winds pick up. Doesn't quite feel perfectly balanced. I know this depends on your headsail size as well of course, but am seeking general guidance. Also, is there any guidance on shroud and backstay tension? Thanks! Gerry