Daniel, I don't beach my M15 - too hard on the gel coat. That is probably the only advantage a P15 has over the M15. ken in Windsor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Rich" <danielgrich@gmail.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 3:12 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Considering an M 15
Now, I understand there is some debate about beaching this boat. I sail often in Tomales Bay, with wonderful beaches for sailing up smoothly. I beach my Vagabond easily as it is a light dinghy. How about the M-15. I know some are worried about the centerboard trunk fouling with muck. Thoughts here?
Daniel
On 7/14/2010 9:17 AM, W David Scobie wrote:
in my opinion the montgomery boats are better for three reasons - quality of build sailing ability comfort for the above you have - montgomery boats cost more. a P15 of similar age is about 1/2 the cost of an M15. potters are fun to sail ... but they sail like a dog. they loose seaway, are slow, are a wet ride and pound in any sea above 1/2-a-foot. now it can be said if you just want to be sailing 'who cares'. jerry montgomery and bob build solid boats. i've never seen a discussion about a mboat being of poor finish (the limiting factor on the used market are the owners and if they keep the boats in good repair). the older m15s do have a design flaw ... steel ballast and centerboard. the centerboard in the older M15s is steel wrapped in fiberglass. issues of stuck centerboards are reported. these are RARE. these come in boats that are wet stored for LONG periods of time. these boats are also lacking in basic maintenance. my M15, which i sold last year because i purchased an M17, had steel ballast and centerboard. she was always dry stored, and like most m15s, has no problems with swelling of the skeg keel or centerboard due to rust. potters have their own centerboard issues. the board can leak water into the cabin if the seal is not securely put in place; and the board can come off the rotation pin during a knockdown. neither of these can occur in the M15. you can sleep comfortably on a M15. you have a porta potti that IS usable under sail. m15s have an amazing ability to store lots of items (to much really as you can overload the boat) ... potters have limited storage room. overall the interior of the m15 is 'spacious' (for the size of the boat) and it isn't all that bad to spend time in the cabin. the p15's cabin is VERY small and bisected by the centerboard trunk and compression post (there is no post in the M15 and the centerboard is housed below the cabin giving you SPACE). if you cruise these are important. the cockpit of the m15 is comfortable for sitting and sailing. the potter 15's is longer (nice for outdoor sleeping) but the footwell is shallow and the seatbacks are not all that comfortable. rigging the potter is a bit quicker and easier than the M15. this is because the p15 has a lighter mast that is shorter. neither is difficult. i could rig my 15 in 30-40 minutes. neither boat is heavy and both can be stored in a garage. the potter is lighter and therefore can be towed by a wider line of cars. the potter also sits lower in a trailer as she has no skeg keel (a bit easier to launch from a shallow ramp). the potter has more initial stability than a M15. the M15 is more stable when the wind comes up as she has an excellent hull shape (though designed by jerry she is heavily inspired by lyle hess's m17 design) meaning she gets to about 15 degrees and becomes very stiff. i only read about one M15 going over ... and the situation was a result of many errors by the captain. some have gone to 90 degrees, taken some water in the cockpit and rounded to the wind. the m15 has ballast and a keel. she will react like a keelboat. the potter is a centerboard boat with no significant ballast. there is a history of potter 15s going over and being turtled. BOTH boats have positive flotation. potters can't take high winds and seas. they pound in the sea (due to hull shape) and make for a wet ride (again the hull shape). M15s are a dry ride (i've been in larger boats and experienced more spray in the cockpit) that cuts the waves like a boat should. put a double reef and a storm jib an M15 will do well when the wind is in the high teens (some say a good storm jib for the M15 is a potter15's jib). so ... in the end my opinion is the m15 is the better sailing boat. now - BOTH boats are fun to sail. both are easy to rig, trailer and store. i did look seriously at the potter ... but the craft's poor sailing performance and lack of cabin lead me to the M15 (and now the M17) the final decision comes to: cost and need. save some money and buy a potter. if you want to sail (in a M15 you can put to shame many larger boats) by the montgomery. if you wish to 'mico cruise' in comfort the montgomery wins again. both boats will draw a crowd at any launch or dock (or when you are doing maintenance in your driveway). you can see more details at my old M15's www-site: http://www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred dave scobie M17 #375 - SWEET PEA visit SWEET PEA's www-site - http://www.m17-375.webs.com
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