Bill, Careful there buddy! Us older M17 owners are a mighty proud group! (smile). Another small fact I can offer to the history of the M17 is that very early models came with 2 gudgeon/pintles rudder mounting, then they were equipped with 3. My hull #92 circa 1976 has 3. On another note, since owning my M17 (1996) I have never had any swing keel sticking issues. (knock on fiberglass). Nice to hear your input Rachel, I do talk with Randy Palmer from time to time, last I heard, he had his Cape Dory 31 up for sale to buy a larger CD. I never did see his M23, but I understand it was sold to a person in Colorado. Later, Bones ________________________________________________________________ Juno Platinum $9.95. Juno SpeedBand $14.95. Sign up for Juno Today at http://www.juno.com! Look for special offers at Best Buy stores.