We did the just the Proving Grounds last year in fierce weather on Sick Chicken #375. Didn’t complete it but had a real challenge ! Planned to do it this year but 50th College Reunion in Maine at the same time. We used a couple of long sculling oars and just coiled a rubberized wire around each winch to act as oarlocks. Stand up rowing with the middle hatch door inserted so you didn’t fall into the cabin. Worked well enough and didn’t have to drill any holes etc. Looking at the wind this year…quite a change from what we took on last year. Is Alaska in the cards? I am getting pretty old! John Sick Chicken. Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef> ________________________________ From: montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com <montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 7, 2023 11:26:44 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 244, Issue 10 Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com You can reach the person managing the list at montgomery_boats-owner@mailman.xmission.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: R2AK (casioqv@usermail.com) 2. Re: R2AK (Rimantas Aukstuolis) 3. Re: human power, oars, paddles (John Schinnerer) 4. Re: human power, oars, paddles (casioqv@usermail.com) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2023 09:14:06 -0700 (PDT) From: casioqv@usermail.com Subject: M_Boats: Re: R2AK To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: scoobscobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1850210147.3029753.1686154446524.JavaMail.zimbra@usermail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I agree, I don't think it's necessary to have a full rowing station on an M boat for R2AK. Special sails for extreme light winds, a sculling or SUP oar, and some kind of dinghy that can tow would all be fine IMO. A full batten main with a preventer and a nylon 'windseeker' jib will ghost along an M boat at about rowing speeds even when there seems to be zero wind. There is never really zero wind if the sun is up and there is a shoreline nearby, there is always a thermal heating gradient causing light winds near the shoreline. I once rowed my M15 several miles with a canoe oar, sitting high up on a pile of PFDs and my feet down in the cockpit locker, and it was fine, I felt I could cover distance that way if absolutely necessary. Sincerely, Tyler Sage 17 #0 Goshawk ----- Original Message ----- From: tdelacy@wavecable.com To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>, "scoobscobie" <scoobscobie@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 6, 2023 7:48:41 PM Subject: M_Boats: Re: R2AK I concur with Dave. After completing the 70/48 twice in my 17 foot kayak, my bucket list now includes completing stage 1 of the R2AK, Port Townsend to Victoria in my other 17 foot boat. However, after all the refurbishment effort, I am not putting oars on my M17. If Lynn and Larry Pardey could figure out how to push Seraffyn with a sculling oar, maybe I could figure out how to push my M17 with a similar device. Could always use the dingy to pull the boat into Victoria harbor. The advantage of only doing stage 1, if the weather is terrible, I hang out Siren's pub in Port Townsend drink a beer and go home, if the wind fails and I don't arrive in Victoria on time, nothing lost. When the wind picks up after the allowed time has past, return to Port Townsend and Siren's still seems like a good fall back. The best part about the adventure races is the comradery (sp?). There are those looking to win and those looking for the adventure. I think it was the Noddy Scamp crew that captured the spirit of the adventure that I want to emulate. Neat people that chatted with everybody dockside when they participated in R2AK's stage 1 a couple of years back. Tim de Lacy M17 hull #333 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2023 13:22:35 -0400 From: Rimantas Aukstuolis <raukstuolis1@gmail.com> Subject: M_Boats: Re: R2AK To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: scoobscobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> Message-ID: <CAMWQgZQ4w19x=FaGBB3TzsV2j0OGP8eKsOR3suRLpfRFFqbODg@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" To all my Monty colleagues "Festina Lente"! Make haste, slowly, the art of sailing. There is also an aesthetic appeal which our Monty's satisfy. Ultra modern sailing machines are interesting engineering exercises but usually they are ugly. Rimas Aukstuolis M-15 Lake Erie On Wed, Jun 7, 2023 at 12:14 PM <casioqv@usermail.com> wrote:
I agree, I don't think it's necessary to have a full rowing station on an M boat for R2AK. Special sails for extreme light winds, a sculling or SUP oar, and some kind of dinghy that can tow would all be fine IMO. A full batten main with a preventer and a nylon 'windseeker' jib will ghost along an M boat at about rowing speeds even when there seems to be zero wind. There is never really zero wind if the sun is up and there is a shoreline nearby, there is always a thermal heating gradient causing light winds near the shoreline.
I once rowed my M15 several miles with a canoe oar, sitting high up on a pile of PFDs and my feet down in the cockpit locker, and it was fine, I felt I could cover distance that way if absolutely necessary.
Sincerely, Tyler Sage 17 #0 Goshawk
----- Original Message ----- From: tdelacy@wavecable.com To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>, "scoobscobie" < scoobscobie@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 6, 2023 7:48:41 PM Subject: M_Boats: Re: R2AK
I concur with Dave.
After completing the 70/48 twice in my 17 foot kayak, my bucket list now includes completing stage 1 of the R2AK, Port Townsend to Victoria in my other 17 foot boat.
However, after all the refurbishment effort, I am not putting oars on my M17. If Lynn and Larry Pardey could figure out how to push Seraffyn with a sculling oar, maybe I could figure out how to push my M17 with a similar device. Could always use the dingy to pull the boat into Victoria harbor. The advantage of only doing stage 1, if the weather is terrible, I hang out Siren's pub in Port Townsend drink a beer and go home, if the wind fails and I don't arrive in Victoria on time, nothing lost. When the wind picks up after the allowed time has past, return to Port Townsend and Siren's still seems like a good fall back.
The best part about the adventure races is the comradery (sp?). There are those looking to win and those looking for the adventure. I think it was the Noddy Scamp crew that captured the spirit of the adventure that I want to emulate. Neat people that chatted with everybody dockside when they participated in R2AK's stage 1 a couple of years back.
Tim de Lacy M17 hull #333
------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2023 10:25:20 -0700 From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> Subject: M_Boats: Re: human power, oars, paddles To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Message-ID: <401bc04a-1c55-9a58-7ec9-2ee8419f9ec9@eco-living.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed The guy who set up a full outrigger rowing rig on an M17 for an early R2AK wrote somewhere that about 2 mph was max speed they could maintain for long distances. I have used a SUP paddle to move my M17 short distances in glassy conditions (like into a marina slip). It is a much heaver boat than an M15 (or a SCAMP, which I have also briefly moved using a SUP paddle) so I would not plan to try any distance that way. I have set up a sculling option on my M17, using the Scullmatix device (https://duckworks.com/scullmatix/) with oarlock on starboard portion of transom, but so far have only been able to try it with an oar that is at least several feet too short. I was able to move the boat around a bit in glassy conditions, despite the awkward angle and low effectiveness with the too-short oar. A long enough oar would clearly work better, and, then there's the issue of stowing a long enough oar on a small boat. It would need to be a two-piece oar to stow inside anywhere (the R2AK M17 stowed their long sculling oars outboard of the toe rails when sailing IIRC). cheers, John On 6/7/23 09:14, casioqv@usermail.com wrote:
I agree, I don't think it's necessary to have a full rowing station on an M boat for R2AK. Special sails for extreme light winds, a sculling or SUP oar, and some kind of dinghy that can tow would all be fine IMO. A full batten main with a preventer and a nylon 'windseeker' jib will ghost along an M boat at about rowing speeds even when there seems to be zero wind. There is never really zero wind if the sun is up and there is a shoreline nearby, there is always a thermal heating gradient causing light winds near the shoreline.
I once rowed my M15 several miles with a canoe oar, sitting high up on a pile of PFDs and my feet down in the cockpit locker, and it was fine, I felt I could cover distance that way if absolutely necessary.
Sincerely, Tyler Sage 17 #0 Goshawk
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2023 11:25:51 -0700 (PDT) From: casioqv@usermail.com Subject: M_Boats: Re: human power, oars, paddles To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Message-ID: <1644744352.3072301.1686162351720.JavaMail.zimbra@usermail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I wonder if some kind of telescoping paddle could work? Maybe a SUP paddle or an "emergency telescoping paddle." There's also multi-piece kayak paddles that have many short sections and can be as long or short as you want... plus they have removable blades so you could use different blade styles. Sincerely, Tyler ----- Original Message ----- From: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: "john" <john@eco-living.net> Sent: Wednesday, June 7, 2023 10:25:20 AM Subject: M_Boats: Re: human power, oars, paddles The guy who set up a full outrigger rowing rig on an M17 for an early R2AK wrote somewhere that about 2 mph was max speed they could maintain for long distances. I have used a SUP paddle to move my M17 short distances in glassy conditions (like into a marina slip). It is a much heaver boat than an M15 (or a SCAMP, which I have also briefly moved using a SUP paddle) so I would not plan to try any distance that way. I have set up a sculling option on my M17, using the Scullmatix device (https://duckworks.com/scullmatix/) with oarlock on starboard portion of transom, but so far have only been able to try it with an oar that is at least several feet too short. I was able to move the boat around a bit in glassy conditions, despite the awkward angle and low effectiveness with the too-short oar. A long enough oar would clearly work better, and, then there's the issue of stowing a long enough oar on a small boat. It would need to be a two-piece oar to stow inside anywhere (the R2AK M17 stowed their long sculling oars outboard of the toe rails when sailing IIRC). cheers, John On 6/7/23 09:14, casioqv@usermail.com wrote:
I agree, I don't think it's necessary to have a full rowing station on an M boat for R2AK. Special sails for extreme light winds, a sculling or SUP oar, and some kind of dinghy that can tow would all be fine IMO. A full batten main with a preventer and a nylon 'windseeker' jib will ghost along an M boat at about rowing speeds even when there seems to be zero wind. There is never really zero wind if the sun is up and there is a shoreline nearby, there is always a thermal heating gradient causing light winds near the shoreline.
I once rowed my M15 several miles with a canoe oar, sitting high up on a pile of PFDs and my feet down in the cockpit locker, and it was fine, I felt I could cover distance that way if absolutely necessary.
Sincerely, Tyler Sage 17 #0 Goshawk
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ montgomery_boats mailing list -- montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com To unsubscribe send an email to montgomery_boats-leave@mailman.xmission.com %(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! ------------------------------ End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 244, Issue 10 *************************************************