Thanks Jerry. I was thinking the same thing re. bronze vs. stainless. I think bronze will be easier to cut and drill too. -----Original Message----- From: jerry montgomery Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 6:04 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Question re. older M17 rudders. Something to remember when replacing the rudder rod- Bronze works much better than stainless, which galls and gets rougher and rougher as it wears, whereas bronze gets smoother with wear (like snot on a doorknob). aluminum bronze is best (tougher and springier) but silicone bronze is good enough. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Howard Audsley" <haudsley@tranquility.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 1:47 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Question re. older M17 rudders. I should probably expand those comments on the rudder with the severely bent pin. I believe the skipper (not me) had his rudder partially retracted to navigate shallow water. The gudgeons were in the halfway up position, so were positioned in the middle of the range where the rudder had the most leverage on it. He was motoring, but only at a slow idle. But what he hit instantly stopped the boat. When fully up or down, and especially when down, all three gudgeons will be in close proximity to the brackets mounted on the transom, so the shear force from the grounding transfers to the brackets and transom. In general, these are not damaged all that often. I'm at about 5 or 6 years on the one I have now. The last one wasn't damaged, but lost when the top cotter pin holding it in place fell out. The rudder pin was so sliding so easy it fell out the bottom, and went to the bottom. When you build a new one, build two and keep a spare in one of the cockpit lockers. Someday you may need it. On Aug 22, 2014, at 1:47 PM, swwheatley@comcast.net wrote:
Don't know if you have seen it? Howard, I have studied Dave's site and your DIYs like a rabbinical lawyer studies the Talmud. In fact, I built a new rudder over the winter and your rudder DIY was very helpful. Many thanks.
Anyway, my rudder pin is no pretzel but it isn't 100% straight either, so I guess I'll start by replacing it and then reevaluate.
Thanks.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Howard Audsley" <haudsley@tranquility.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 1:42:04 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Question re. older M17 rudders.
Don't know if you have seen it, but on Dave's M-17 website is a summary of some project's I did on my M17, and one of them relates to the tiller and rudder:
http://m17-375.webs.com/rudderandtiller.htm
Provided the rudder pin is straight to begin with, and provided the three gudgeons are all lined up correctly, the rudder slides up and down like a charm.
Directions for aligning the gudgeons should be in that article.
Main reason for the pin being bent is you hit something, which racks the tip of the rudder back. I saw one once that had about a one inch bend in it. That was a pretty hard hit.
You can tell if your rudder pin is straight by simply rolling it around on a flat surface. If it has any wobble, it is bent. If so, start by replacing that with either 316 stainless, or I seem to recall Jerry M recommending aluminum bronze as the best overall choice. Get it from Online Metals.
http://www.onlinemetals.com/productguides/bronzeguide.cfm
Go with the fixed pin route........your option #1. Pin is held fixed in place with either snap pins, or cotter pins. If making a new rod, you will need to drill two holes, which is easy enough to do, even in stainless. Go slow (slowest setting there is on a drill press) and use water to keep the drill bit cool. A good sharp drill bit will punch right through it.
Yet another option if you don't like the rudder sliding up and down is to buy or build a kickup type rudder.
On Aug 22, 2014, at 11:32 AM, swwheatley@comcast.net wrote:
Thanks Dave. I have seen your photos. But, can you think of any reason not to go with option 2? It seems like that would be much more tolerant of slightly bent rods and slightly misaligned fittings.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Scobie" <scoobscobie@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 12:01:18 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Question re. older M17 rudders.
the rudder slides up/down the rod.
my M17's rod isn't all the straight, but no 'crazy' bends, and the rudder moves up/down fine.
there should be a line that goes from the deck-to-transom joint, through a hole in the rudder, and then to the cleat that is on the transom. to raise the rudder pull the line and then hold rudder up by securing line on the cleat. picture of the setup can be seen on my M17's www-site in the home page's banner.
more detailed photos can be provided if necessary
-- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 9:53 AM, <swwheatley@comcast.net> wrote:
New M17 owner looking for some guidance on how the rudder is supposed to go up and down. Specifically, is the rod supposed to remain stationary relative to the gudgeons while the rudder mounted fittings (I hesitate to call a pinless fitting a pintle) slide up and down the rod? Or is the rod supposed to slide up and down in the gudgeons while the rudder mounted fittings remain stationary relative to the rod? My boat came to me rigged per option 1, but the least little bend in the rod or misalignment of the fittings makes it virtually impossible to raise the rudder. I've seen photos on-line of M17s rigged per option 2 and that seems like it might be a less fussy arrangement.
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