Thanks Don Where do you sit when rowing? Jim S -----Original Message----- From: Don Bryson via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 7, 2023 1:53 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net>; Don Bryson <dbryson59@yahoo.com> Subject: M_Boats: Re: human power, oars, paddles I think I posted this on Facebook a while back… I really like the rowing setup on my M15. Two-piece aluminum oars from Ocean South were inexpensive. The longest ones they sell are 9’ long but work well and are easy to stow below. I think I am able to row at 3kts in calm water. Don BrysonNanette (#639)Port Townsend, WA Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad On Wednesday, June 7, 2023, 12:14 PM, John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote: There's a variety of river raft/river dory oars that are available with two-piece shafts in various lengths. They typically have, or can take, a flat blade, so that if sculling the blade shape is identical in both directions. Duckworks sells a carbon fiber ferrule that can be used to make two-piece oars out of one-piece oars. Most flatwater rowing blades, as well as most kayak, canoe and SUP blades, have one or more types of asymmetry ('spoon' curve, hatchet shape, blade angle vs. shaft, etc.) so would not scull evenly. My test oar was only 6 ft., and only 5 1/2 ft or a bit less aft of the Scullmatix since it has to clamp on the full size shaft not the smaller handgrip that is the first 6 inches or so of the 6 ft. So to get enough blade in the water to do anything, the whole rig was angled too steeply down to work effectively on either end. I figured I needed at least 2 ft more, and 3 ft more would probably be better. So ~8 ft aft of the Scullmatix, meaning an 8 1/2 or 9 ft oar. Without the Scullmatix, add ~4+ ft to oar length because it has to reach into the cockpit to where the Scullmatix handle does. So about 12 ft minimum. There are some specialty makers, if you've got the buck$$$: https://www.shawandtenney.com/productdisplay/st-sculling-oar But there's also free plans for oars at Duckworks and elsewhere so given time and adequate skill, DIY... cheers, John On 6/7/23 11:25, casioqv@usermail.com wrote:
I wonder if some kind of telescoping paddle could work? Maybe a SUP paddle or an "emergency telescoping paddle." There's also multi-piece kayak paddles that have many short sections and can be as long or short as you want... plus they have removable blades so you could use different blade styles.
Sincerely, Tyler
----- Original Message ----- From: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: "john" <john@eco-living.net> Sent: Wednesday, June 7, 2023 10:25:20 AM Subject: M_Boats: Re: human power, oars, paddles
The guy who set up a full outrigger rowing rig on an M17 for an early R2AK wrote somewhere that about 2 mph was max speed they could maintain for long distances.
I have used a SUP paddle to move my M17 short distances in glassy conditions (like into a marina slip). It is a much heaver boat than an M15 (or a SCAMP, which I have also briefly moved using a SUP paddle) so I would not plan to try any distance that way.
I have set up a sculling option on my M17, using the Scullmatix device (https://duckworks.com/scullmatix/) with oarlock on starboard portion of transom, but so far have only been able to try it with an oar that is at least several feet too short. I was able to move the boat around a bit in glassy conditions, despite the awkward angle and low effectiveness with the too-short oar. A long enough oar would clearly work better, and, then there's the issue of stowing a long enough oar on a small boat. It would need to be a two-piece oar to stow inside anywhere (the R2AK M17 stowed their long sculling oars outboard of the toe rails when sailing IIRC).
cheers, John
On 6/7/23 09:14, casioqv@usermail.com wrote:
I agree, I don't think it's necessary to have a full rowing station on an M boat for R2AK. Special sails for extreme light winds, a sculling or SUP oar, and some kind of dinghy that can tow would all be fine IMO. A full batten main with a preventer and a nylon 'windseeker' jib will ghost along an M boat at about rowing speeds even when there seems to be zero wind. There is never really zero wind if the sun is up and there is a shoreline nearby, there is always a thermal heating gradient causing light winds near the shoreline.
I once rowed my M15 several miles with a canoe oar, sitting high up on a pile of PFDs and my feet down in the cockpit locker, and it was fine, I felt I could cover distance that way if absolutely necessary.
Sincerely, Tyler Sage 17 #0 Goshawk
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com