I just noticed something curious in this pic Bob posted of Strawanza a while back (attached). Specifically, the rudder - it is well clear of the ground, with boat sitting level on trailer. Trailer doesn't look significantly higher than the usual M17 trailer. In any case from this side view it looks like rudder depth is about even with keel depth. Maybe a tiny bit deeper. Maybe it's the sliding rod rudder, but I can see the top is still nearly down where it would be when fully down. Not more than a few inches up, if at all. My rudder is way longer than this. Can't put it on boat on trailer even with front of trailer almost to the ground. I know mine goes way deeper than my keel. I couldn't even put it on at a launch ramp dock one place last fall, too shallow by 3-6". Bob, can you shed any light on this difference? Anyone else? thanks, John S. On 01/05/2016 11:28 AM, Bob Eeg wrote: -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com