Indeed it does...I went to Burning Man years ago and saw the proof of that! A majority of the installations and pavillions and art cars etc. use propane for their flames, but there was one that year that blew away even the burning of the Man, and involved several thousand gallons of jet fuel. Interestingly the 'yacht-size' marine alcohol stoves are effectively what Rusty describes below, more or less - an alcohol stove burner in a big safe metal pan. And of course holds a lot more alcohol in the burner tank, so needs refilling much less often. It terms of humans breathing, it is a safer fuel to use in poorly ventilated spaces than petrol, propane/butane, kerosene, etc. Like when the weather wants all the hatches closed and the crew wants a hot meal. Also, in the USA alcohol is not specifically sold as stove fuel because alcohol stoves are so uncommon. But in Scandinavia for example where it's more commonly used as stove fuel, it's sold for that purpose with a coloring agent in it, so it won't be mistaken for water (or aquavit, etc.). Usually red-tinted (red = danger!). Kind of like how propane is dangerous to breathe and flammable but odorless, so they use a stinky additive for safety. cheers, John On 1/9/24 15:50, Rusty Knorr via montgomery_boats wrote:
But jet fuel burns so well, John! 😂
Another suggestion is I always use a steel lasagna style pan under my stove with a towel under it to catch any spilled alcohol (when using one of those options). Unless using the Trangia bottle to store and dispense alcohol (highly recommended and worth every penny), you WILL spill it when filling the stove. And alcohol being invisible when it burns, you wouldn’t even know you had an uncontrolled fire when lighting until too late. At least spills are contained in the non flammable pan until they burn back to only the stove…
Still, too dangerous on a boat in my opinion. And back to the OP…stick with the Jetboil! At least for boiling water. If you’re actually cooking those wide and flat canister stoves from the hardware store with proper cooktops are probably the best option. A Jetboil with a pot support and diffusion plate has worked for any meal I’ve ever wanted to cook aboard, and the majority of the time I’m just doing backpacker meals and only needing boiling water. But then again, I have a lifetime employee discount at REI so they’re affordable for me! 😇
Decide what you actually are going to cook, look at all the pros and cons of each system, and make your choice. Then make whatever improvements you can to make the system as safe and effective as possible.
Fun discussion!
www.rustyknorr.weebly.com
On Jan 9, 2024, at 3:26 PM, John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
You're welcome, and, see Rusty's opinion, rather different.
I figure don't put jet fuel in the alcohol burner and it will be safer (just kidding Rusty :-).
But a broader point applying to all of us would be, any stove is unsafe when used unsafely (and stove fuel unsafe if stored unsafely). Like propane on a boat without a bilge blower, any stove at all inside a tent, and so on.
And pilot error is the vast majority of causes, so it's on us to be careful, whatever our pyromaniac choices are.
cheers, John
On 1/9/24 15:18, Jim Sadler wrote: Thanks John -----Original Message----- From: John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2024 1:09 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Cc: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> Subject: M_Boats: Re: M15 and Jet Boil I use a Trangia alcohol burner camp stove. Small, light, inexpensive, durable, no moving parts to clog clean or jam, quiet, fuel available at any hardware or building supply store, no risk storing fuel inboard/inside. The basic alcohol burner can be used with a variety of bases and windscreens and pot sets, Trangia makes windscreen/pot kits and there's third party stuff too, from ultra-light to heavy-duty. I have a couple different setups depending on use - car or sailboat camping vs. backpacking or kayak camping for example. Only cooked aboard in calm-water conditions to date. In the cockpit where there's plenty of space, but would be safe to use inside as well. Haven't thought about how to gimbal any of my alcohol stove setups but it wouldn't be that different from gimbaling any other small camp stove. Or as with larger boats, the stove isn't gimbaled but there are means to secure the pot from sliding around. Trangia brand from Sweden is the 'original' and still one of the best alcohol burners, there are various direct imitations and some alternative designs, a few aimed at ultralight backpackers and made from titanium no less. There's marine alcohol stoves of course but most are too big for our boats and also in the $$$$ price range. cheers, John
On 1/9/24 11:40, Jim Sadler wrote: Roger that Rusty
I hate having propane on a boat mainly because it is heaver than air. I would rather have a kerosene, alcohol or natural gas stove if I could find one. Thanks so much for your great advice..
Capt Jim
-----Original Message----- From: Rusty Knorr via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2024 11:17 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: Rusty Knorr <rustyinafrica@yahoo.com> Subject: M_Boats: Re: M15 and Jet Boil
The one thing I absolutely do is store my Jetboil and fuel in an airtight plastic container. Do NOT let the possibility in the rare event of a leaky canister or fuel tank letting gas collect in the bilge causing an explosion. Storing any fuel in the cabin is a seriously bad idea, but storing it outside of an airtight container in the cabin is simply stupid. www.rustyknorr.weebly.com
On Jan 9, 2024, at 6:11 AM, Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
I use a Jetboil. It works for all cooking but u have to watch the high flame
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 9, 2024, at 05:20, John Tyner <tynerjr@md.metrocast.net> wrote:
Previous owner (John Harris, Chesapeake Light Craft) made the attached for "Chimpanzee". Burner and direct-connect 1 lb. propane bottle lift up. Never used it myself, but it's neat. Only wish it had been sized/shaped so it could be stored inverted in the under-bunk access as well as sitting upright in it.
John Tyner
M-15 #412 "Chimpanzee"
>> On 1/9/2024 2:59 AM, Rusty Knorr via montgomery_boats wrote: > That’s the only stove I’ve ever used, never worried about a gimbal. I have the canister tripod, it’s more than stable enough. If it’s so rough you need a gimbal you’re probably worried about other things than cooking. > www.rustyknorr.weebly.com > >>> On Jan 8, 2024, at 10:47 PM, Jim Sadler<jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote: >> >> Any of you skippers/back packers using your backpack stove on M15. Gimbaled? >> >> Capt Jim >> >> Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef> <M-15 #412 Galley In Place 2.JPG> -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com