Photo didn't make it -- try this go -----Original Message----- From: Gary Oberbeck via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> To: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wed, Jun 13, 2018 12:30 am Subject: Re: M_Boats: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 184, Issue 7 If I were looking for a KU rudder for a M-17 I would modify a C-22 rudder head with all the parts in place (esp. 'hockey pucks') as a good starting point using a wood or ? blade with that rudder, they are strong and quite solidly engineered pieces. My 17 had an original wood rudder and it was in poor condition so I replaced it with a new wood one years ago - stored indoors vertically and cared for beyond reason - it warped - I threw it away I was so disappointed! Used a fiberglass Catalina 250 early model (discontinued) rudder for years and still have it in the garage. It was VERY heavy (35+#) That rudder has been replaced with a foam core composite rudder made for me by a good friend - I mounted delrin gudgeons and shaped the foil on the core that he so generously built for me(it is not quite finished to this day!) This rudder shows huge advantages in weight savings at the stern (weighs 11#15oz!) it FLOATS up on the rudder rod! I have run agound on rocky bottoms and the rod took a slight bend - blade undamaged. It has been drug on a concrete ramp when retrieving (not me ;>) - a bit of abrasion at tip - easy repair. The rudder shows the smallest bit of flutter under power ONLY at max throttle then settles down (too sharp at leading edge) and is virtually impossible to stall!! There is NO flex in the blade and no 'lead' on the pintles to make it semi balanced. The boats helm has been adjusted with the rig rake. See photo of 'deflection test' when core was built. Imagine driving a 1954 Chevy truck with manual steering and then driving a 'modern car' with rack and pinion steering - that dramatic. I have owned boats with kickup rudders and they were never as positive as a fixed or sliding foil IMO. I would not trailer any boat with the rudder in place as the wear on the pintles/gudgeons is unnecessary. Whatever 'floats yer boat' - 'blows yer hair back' - 'tickles your wallet' Come on out to the 2018 Cruiser Challenge at Monterey Bay see details here - great time has been had by yours truly EVERY time I have sailed there! We will be there with the rudder blade guy as crew! cruiserchallenge.potter-yachters.org Have fUn, Go Sailing! GO -----Original Message----- From: Jon Barber <brbrbarber@gmail.com> To: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tue, Jun 12, 2018 10:02 pm Subject: Re: M_Boats: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 184, Issue 7 I have the Rudder Craft rudder on my M17 "Ol'44. The rudder seems to give me crisper handling. It swings a little forward of center thus reducing weatherhelm. It came with the mast raising system so now my rudder and mast raising system remain on the boat in the water and on the trailer, saving considerable work when launching and retrieving. That alone was worth $500. I'm very happy with it. Jon Barber Ol'44 Montgomery 17 I sail therefore I am, I think On Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 11:01 AM < montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder (Kevin Sandwick) 2. Re: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder (Dave Scobie) 3. Re: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder (Bill Dixon) 4. Re: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder (Dave Scobie) 5. Re: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder (Gerald Wolczanski) 6. Re: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder (Dave Scobie) 7. Re: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder (swwheatley@comcast.net)
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Message: 1 Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 14:13:53 +0000 From: Kevin Sandwick <ksandwick@hotmail.com> To: "montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder Message-ID: < DM3PR16MB06821E703EBA901E9341A0C5AA7F0@DM3PR16MB0682.namprd16.prod.outlook.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Just curious, Is anybody using the Rudder Craft High Performance Kick Up Rudder on an M-17 ?
Not an inexpensive modification. Any thoughts?
Thanks
Kevin
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Message: 2 Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 07:19:31 -0700 From: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder Message-ID: < CAGjBOA7BrRYbRr7ZUiqAYHPM0ZnSMdyhc57PFxdyoDOemk3Lyw@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
The solid mahogany one piece rudders that Jerry made are very good and not at all prone to failure. In the 'up' position they are higher than the keel (centerboard up).
If you believe the rudder shape isn't right look online for a NACA12 foil and make a template to confirm the shape of your boat's. Very easy to refine the shape on a nice piece of wood.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com
On Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 7:14 AM Kevin Sandwick <ksandwick@hotmail.com> wrote:
Just curious, Is anybody using the Rudder Craft High Performance Kick Up Rudder on an M-17 ?
Not an inexpensive modification. Any thoughts?
Thanks
Kevin
------------------------------
Message: 3 Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 07:57:01 -0700 From: "Bill Dixon" <bill@miralee.com> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder Message-ID: <003b01d4025d$9f0c1410$dd243c30$@miralee.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
What is the best way to place and hold the mahogany rudder in its UP position?
Bill M-17 Robbin Windsor, CA
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats [mailto: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2018 7:20 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder
The solid mahogany one piece rudders that Jerry made are very good and not at all prone to failure. In the 'up' position they are higher than the keel (centerboard up).
If you believe the rudder shape isn't right look online for a NACA12 foil and make a template to confirm the shape of your boat's. Very easy to refine the shape on a nice piece of wood.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com
On Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 7:14 AM Kevin Sandwick <ksandwick@hotmail.com> wrote:
Just curious, Is anybody using the Rudder Craft High Performance Kick Up Rudder on an M-17 ?
Not an inexpensive modification. Any thoughts?
Thanks
Kevin
------------------------------
Message: 4 Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 08:10:39 -0700 From: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder Message-ID: <CAGjBOA7TZEQ-yR6ETTQntc9GG= azC_kO7GxkfSXq_fMTnLUu5g@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Bill.
A line should be there at the transom that goes through a hole in the rudder.
Line on the second generation decks goes through the hull deck joint (held there with an 8-knot) down through the rudder and up to a cleat on the transom. On the original decks the line is dead-ended on an eye bolt on the transom; cleat the same.
Pull line up to pull up rudder and secure in cleat. simple and easy.
A picture attached just taken here at Washington State Fort Flagler State Park where I am on a buoy. You can also see a transom picture that shows the system on my BLOG linked below (it is the top banner picture on the site).
Need more details let me know.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com
On Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 7:57 AM Bill Dixon <bill@miralee.com> wrote:
What is the best way to place and hold the mahogany rudder in its UP position?
Bill M-17 Robbin Windsor, CA
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats [mailto: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2018 7:20 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder
The solid mahogany one piece rudders that Jerry made are very good and not at all prone to failure. In the 'up' position they are higher than the keel (centerboard up).
If you believe the rudder shape isn't right look online for a NACA12 foil and make a template to confirm the shape of your boat's. Very easy to refine the shape on a nice piece of wood.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com
On Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 7:14 AM Kevin Sandwick <ksandwick@hotmail.com> wrote:
Just curious, Is anybody using the Rudder Craft High Performance Kick Up Rudder on an M-17 ?
Not an inexpensive modification. Any thoughts?
Thanks
Kevin
