Joe I did indeed see the excellent photos. Since I am not much of a router guy, and already have a piece of the Dwyer extrusion with enough material for several plugs, I will probably try something with that first. The polyethylene material might be similar to "Marine Lumber" I bought from WM to mount a cleat. Unfortunately, if you don't need it for some other project, a chunk would cost more than the foot of extrusion I bought from Dwyer. Judgement call. Tom On Sep 16, 2009, at 2:14 PM, Joe Murphy wrote:
Hey Tom, Have you checked out how Jim Poulakis on "Spirit" made his mast gate out of "Seaboard"? He did a really neat job. I'm probably going to follow suit. Thanks for the followup. Joe Seafrog
----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Jenkins" <tjenk@gte.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 12:12 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: boom vang
Joe,
I feel your pain! Yesterday I started out with two reefs, and delayed going down to one when the wind abated because it was too much trouble dealing with the dreaded cutout. I have a foot of mast extrusion from Dwyer and plan to cut out a chunk that exactly fits the hole. I will presumably bond it to a larger curved piece of extrusion, and hold the assembly in place with nylon screws (so the hole will not enlarge with use). Jim Poulakis and others have different variations, so I am waiting to see how they did it. As nearly as I can tell, the cutout position is perfect for a boltrope, so this stock setup is versatile if one can gate the high opening. If I were ordering a new boat, however, I think I would opt for a custom opening below where I ride the boom.
I cannot safely do mast surgery on a mooring without dropping more tools overboard, but I will certainly pass along my experiences when I pull the boat for its winter rest and rehab (which is early at 7500') .
Tom Jenkins
On Sep 14, 2009, at 6:51 PM, Joe Murphy wrote:
Tom, When you find the solution for coming up with a gate to fill that % $#& cutout PLEAASE let me know. I just finished a 4 day 120 mile trip. I made a real simple reefing system that I could do completely from the cockpit but I had to go to the mast every time to futz around with the slot and the slugs. If that cutout had a gate I wouldn't have had any problems. But the way it is set up now, I procrastinate on making reefing changes. And heaven help me when I have to reef from the first to second. It's a strange design. I still can't figure out why the cut out is so high. Must be a bolt rope thing. Joe Seafrog M17
----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Jenkins" <tjenk@gte.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 3:05 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: boom vang
Jim,
Within tolerances at E/P, we probably have the same sail. I will measure it today if the wind doesn't blow me off the boat.
Mind if I ask how you secure your reefing lines? I like cam cleats, but the boom is pretty small and roundy even for a Harken micro. I have also considered medium Ronstan V-cleats with leads, and 4" Schaefer jam cleats. Any could be made to work after a fashion, but I don't know if I have considered all the angles. Frankly, it is fun to do these mods, because little things can make the boats so user-friendly. The "big one" will be gating the cutout on the mast so I won't have to get on the deck and feed the sail slugs across it by hand.
Tom
On Sep 13, 2009, at 11:18 AM, James Poulakis wrote:
Tom,
Just for reference: After surgery my final boom extrusion length came out to exactly 93.75". Again, this is just the aluminum extrusion without ANY end fittings on it. In retrospect, it could have been cut down to Jerry's 93" (7'9"). But in my case, that would have been a little too close for comfort. Your mainsail foot length may be different from mine.
By the way, that is exactly how I used my extra cheek block.
Jim
On Sep 13, 2009, at 10:08 AM, Thomas Jenkins wrote:
Jim,
Your verbal description did the trick. There they are in catalogs and in my can of stainless fittings, but I never knew they had a special name. I will need a new location for the topping lift shackle, but your solution will work for me. I will even get a free block for my reefing system. Thanks again for your advice.
Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
On Sep 12, 2009, at 11:17 PM, James Poulakis wrote:
> Tom, > > A bow shackle is just like a U-shaped pin shackle except it is > more rounded - like a horseshoe (I'll email you a picture of > my setup tomorrow). The bow shackle itself doesn't do > anything to adjust tension, it simply provides a "loop" to > pass a few turns of 3/16" line through. The line runs through > the bow shackle and the sail clew grommet a few times to give > a purchase so it can be easily pulled taut (unlike the stock > setup). It is then tied off in a reef knot. There's really > nothing elegant about it. In fact, its the kind of simple, > strong rigging that would look right at home on a 19th century > fishing boat. > > With the boom extrusion cut down to about 7'10" there simply > isn't room for fancy outhaul fittings (not even a cheek > block). The thing to consider carefully is the foot of YOUR > particular sail. Pulled drum-taut, the clew of my stock EP > main is left with over an inch to spare for old age stretch > (Jerry M. recommended 1/2"). > > The actual surgery is really simple, but I went through a > measure... think... measure... think... process that lasted > over a month before I finally got the courage to cut into my > brand-new boom. I'm happy with the result. > > Jim > > On Sep 12, 2009, at 5:03 PM, Thomas Jenkins wrote: > >> Jim, >> >> Thanks for the excellent information. >> I did not known how high the boom should be set, but with >> trial and error I coincidentally came up with exactly 19" >> above the tabernacle base. My boom measures 8' 2.5" long from >> the mast to the end of the aft fitting, or about 8' even >> without fittings. This setup overlaps the backstay about an >> inch if the boom rises, so trimming off 2.25" would be >> perfect, with no drawbacks that I can foresee. I too prefer >> to dispense with a vang if I can help it. >> Incidentally, what is a "bow shackle" ? Your solution sounds >> elegant, but I can't visualize a shackle that adjusts >> tension. Maybe a small turnbuckle would also work. >> >> Tom Jenkins >> >> >> >> On Sep 11, 2009, at 1:26 PM, James Poulakis wrote: >> >>> Tom, >>> >>> This is another rigging oddity with late model M-17s (I >>> think you said yours was a 2004). According to Jerry M. the >>> aluminum boom extrusions should be about 7'9" (without the >>> end fittings). The newer boom extrusions are over 8' long >>> and can hang up on the backstay. This is with the gooseneck >>> correctly positioned at 19" off the deck (per Bob Eeg). >>> >>> My solution was to cut 2-1/4" off the boom, which allows it >>> to barely clear the backstay at all angles. I would have cut >>> it down to Jerry's 7'9" but that would have been too short >>> to accommodate the foot of the now stock Elliot Pattison >>> mainsail. >>> >>> This mod also means doing away with the clew outhaul cheek >>> block. I now lash the clew to a bow shackle attached to the >>> boom end fitting. I actually like this better because it >>> gives me more control over the foot tension and is stronger >>> and simpler. >>> >>> A properly tensioned boom vang should keep you out of >>> trouble as well. However, Spirit is docked in my driveway >>> and I find that more stuff to rig at the launch ramp = less >>> time (and energy) for sailing. >>> >>> Batten hang-ups are another common issue with the later >>> rigs. So far this has just been a minor annoyance for me in >>> light winds. >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> On Sep 10, 2009, at 2:54 PM, Thomas Jenkins wrote: >>> >>>> I'm just a learner with my 17, so surprises still abound. >>>> I found that an accidental gybe (always a risk in the >>>> fluky winds where I am sailing) can hang the boom in the >>>> backstay if the main is single-reefed. I generally pull >>>> the boom across by hand to cushion the shock of a gybe, so >>>> the boom does not ride up, but big gusts can be >>>> unpredictable if they are not touching the lake surface. >>>> Anyway, a vang seemed unnecessary with the mainsheet in mid- >>>> cockpit, but now think a small four- part might hold the >>>> boom down enough to keep it clear of the backstay under >>>> unusual conditions. Any thoughts? >>>> >>>> On another sail subject, I arbitrarily set the boom at a >>>> height that put the head of the main maybe 6 inches from >>>> the masthead. I tried raising the main to the top of the >>>> slot, but the roach in my (presumably stock) Elliot- >>>> Pattison main puts a good chunk of the sail--and the upper >>>> batten--a few inches outside the backstay. Has anyone had >>>> a broken batten or a hung sail during tacking with this >>>> configuration? I prefer not to learn the hard way. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Tom Jenkins >>>> 2004 M17 Scintilla >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ >>>> montgomery_boats >>>> >>>> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ >>> montgomery_boats >>> >>> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ >> montgomery_boats >> >> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ > montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
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