The pole should be about the J measurement on the foretriangle. On the M15 this is 4.6 ft so a 5 ft pole should work but it seems that mine is a little longer. I will measure it the next time I am at the boat. This could be a while since it is off season in the desert. I have seen some small boats mount a block 4 ft or so above the mast ring and run a line through this, attach the line to a clip, put a pad eye in the center of the spinnaker pole, attach a bungee cord to the clip and attach the bungee some where near the base of the mast, or run it to the base and then up to an attachment. The line part also goes down the mast to a cleat. This functions as a topping lift and downhaul but you still need the twinger. as it also pulls to the center line of the boat. In either case without a topping lift the pole is not attached to anything should you drop it in the water. I still have thoughts of flying the spinnaker on the gaffer but it does get complicated. First addition would be a topsail, and then a flying jib in addition to the two already there and if that is not enough then a spinnaker :-) Thanks Doug Kelch M15G #310 "Seas the Day" ________________________________ From: Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Mon, July 4, 2011 2:43:21 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Spinnaker Great info! OK, I have some prep work to do. How long should the spinnaker pole be? I can get one for under $100 from Annapolis sports as a kit that I can cut to size. I think I have the twinger idea. I think a hook might work nicely where you suggest. So, once I have the thing flying I can slip the guy under the hook, and then tighten or loosen the guy a bit from the rear cam cleat to adjust the tension and height of the tack and pole. Interesting. Not looking forward to broaching...but I'm sure I will do it! Hopefully I don't take on too much water or dismast... Daniel On Jul 4, 2011, at 2:37 PM, Doug Kelch wrote:
Twingers - they probably have a number of local names but in small boats, in the
absence of a pole down haul, they are used to pull the guy down and control the
luff tension/shape on the spinnaker.
The simplest ones I have seen are merely open fairleads (polished hooks if you
will) attached near the shroud to slip the guy under. Some racing boats use lines and blocks and cleats like I have suggested. This lets you adjust the tension a little. You could lash a hook to the shroud channels and this would work as well.
So after you hoist and fill away slip the guy under the twinger, or tighten the
twinger line depending on your implementation.
When you jibe, hook the sheet under it's twinger, or pull in the twinger line and cleat it off. This keeps the sheet close so it is easier to get the pole hooked on. Then disconnect the pole from the mast, attach the pole to the old
sheet (new guy), release the old guy from the pole and attach the pole to the mast. Then release the new sheets twinger.
It's a lot of fun and with a well cut reaching spinnaker it feels like you can
go quite a ways to windward even though you really aren't.
Enjoy your first broach :-)
Oh, by the way you should never tie a stopper knot in the sheets in case you have to let them fly. In an emergency they need to be fully detached from the
boat.
Thanks
Doug
________________________________ From: Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Mon, July 4, 2011 2:13:37 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Spinnaker
Now that is what I am talking about!
OK, a few questions here, but I think I have the idea.
First, I don't know what a twinger is, but I think you must be referring to the
spinnaker sheets. I have read in my sailing books, so I have some idea here about what is going on. the sheets change name depending on which side is winward. So, the guy is on the windward side, as is the tack, and the sheet is
on the lee side, as is the clew. Now, my boat appears already rigged with blocks
for the spinnaker all the way back onto the stern pulpit. So, it looks like what
I need to do is use some brummel hooks (good idea) for the sheets, and run them
like this:
Hook them together in front of the forestay with the brummel hooks. Run them aft
outside the shrouds back to the stern blocks, then forward to the cam cleats that I have on my cowlings. They have built in fairleads, and rotate so they will face aft when used for this purpose. Now, I also will set up the halyard to
a block on the fitting above my forestay. There isn't a block there now, but that is easily remedied. I understand what you are getting at when you mention
the halyard on the lee side, and if it is on the wrong side, the ability to get
it to the right side makes sense if I understand you correctly.
So, when ready to hoist, I put the boat on a broad reach, unclip the brummels,
hook them to the correct tack and clew, put the pole on the windward side on the
guy and swing it forward, hook up the halyard, and hoist away, fill, and straighten it all out. I don't have such an elaborate steering setup like you do, but I just today installed a tillerclutch. Can't wait to try that.
Now, it turns out that what I have is a whisker pole, not a spinnaker pole with
hooks on both ends, so I will need to get one of those in order to try this. The
whisker pole hooks directly to the clew, and that won't quite do it.
Also, I figure I will try this with a crew the first time, so the steering will
be less of an issue.
Leave to a guy with a gaff rig to send the instructions!
Thanks!
Daniel On Jul 4, 2011, at 11:59 AM, Doug Kelch wrote:
Hi Daniel,
I frequentl flew a spinnaker single handed when cruising and new I had a long
down wind run. I never formally set the boat up for a spinnaker and jury rigged
things each time.
The spinnaker is so small and since I only use it in light air a topping lift
is
not required. I do have a well place mast ring that has the spinnaker pole parallel to the water when the windward twinger is snug.
Jury rig was as follows: - twingers were set up by using the small harken snatch blocks, and long thin
line. With the block outside the shroud channel plate I would run the thin line
through the gap between the chain plate and the channel and up to the jib cleats.
- I have several running blocks on pigtails that I use for sheet/guy leads tied
on to the stern cleats. - I use brummel hooks ( I think they call them sister hooks now ) on the tack
corners of the spinnaker and on the sheets. The sheets hook together with the
brummel hooks forward of the shroud you expect to launch from and run through
the twinger blocks and the running blocks on the transom back to the cabin. - when ready to launch it bring the halyard around the forestay if neccessary.
It may already be on the correct side. If it is not on the correct side you can
pull the sheets to the windward side, the brummel hooks will slide around the
forstay, attach the halyard forward of the hooks and pull it back around the forstay. - run your hands along the luff or leech to make sure the sail is not twisted. - attach the sheet, guy and halyard to the sail ( all of this is in the lee of
the main on the lee side of the boat) - set the pole in the guy and the mast ring and then push the pole as far forward as you can. To the forstay is perfect. The pole may drop down to the
deck but this is fine. - hoist away - pull on the guy to get the spinnaker to swing around a fill. Push the pole forward, it will be raised by the sail. Then adjust the pole twinger to the desired setting and cleat it off.
All of this works single handed because I have a remote steering line that runs
from the tiller through a running block on the starboard side(on a pigtail attached to an extra cleat on the coaming) all the way up to the bow though another running block attached to the deck cleat, back to another block on the
port coaming and to the tiller. Make the line snug. I use an old mainsheet for
this and it runs right next to the cabin entry so that you can stand in the cabin and steer, and manipulate all of the spinnaker gear.
It doubles or triples the boat speed on a light wind day and adds a lot of pleasure to those of us who like fooling with lots of lines :-)
Thanks
Doug Kelch M15G #310 "Seas the Day"
________________________________ From: Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Mon, July 4, 2011 10:22:48 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Drifter
Can't wait to try this when I have light winds. But I don't have light winds where I sail!
Still no takers on the spinnaker setup?
C'mon, somebody must have flown a spinnaker on an M15...
Daniel On Jul 4, 2011, at 9:40 AM, Tom Smith wrote:
I don't have a furler, Joe, but I know you can use a drifter anyway. As Don says below, use the old jib halyard to hoist. I have a second hank installed a foot or so down from the head of the sail so I can use my downhaul. I've found that if I try to use the topmost hank, the sail jams when I need to douse it most. I imagine one of those bead loop thingees would work fine over the furled headsail. I just attach the tack of the sail to the bow fitting.
My M15 had track installed on the toe rail, so I sheeted aft some distance. Don't remember exactly where, but I can dig up a pic of the setup and send it to you if you wish. And Don's right, you can easily sheet to the stern mooring cleat. You won't get and adjustment on the sheeting angle, but that's not a big deal.
My M17 has track on the toe rail, of course, so I sheet it back pretty far as well.
I said something about poling the sail out in my previous post on this subject. Probably not necessary, or even that good an idea because even a light pole will drag the drifter down--hand controlling the sail is more fun anyway.
Like Don says, the drifter can be a handful. I looked a lot like a circus performer Saturday putting the sail up, and in front of a 40 foot Beneteau, to boot. I had the last laugh of course as I caught and passed the guy in very light air...
t
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 7:43 AM, Don <sailmonty15@gmail.com> wrote:
Seems like after I bought the drifter for my M15, Jerry or someone else provided the following technique for sail controls. Looked through the archives but didn't find anything.
I have a CDI furler so I hoist the drifter on the old jib halyard. Sail controls are 1/8" line routed outside the shrouds to the back of the boat. I didn't add any special blocks or cleats, just looped the line around the stern mooring cleat. In the light, flukely air on the lake I kept them in hand to try to keep the sail full. When I questioned the size of the control line, whoever it was said "if you can't control the sail comfortably with the 1/8" line its time to drop the sail."
I experimented attaching the tack to the bow fitting, both inside and outside the pulpit and even on top of the pulpit. Occasionally tried running with two head sails. Interesting, but lots of work.
Don M15-248 On 7/4/2011 6:55 AM, Joe Murphy wrote:
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Drifter
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!