The nice thing about the slide-up is that you get the same helm feel/balance and still quite good maneuvering ability even when it's slid all the way up. With the sliding rudder all the way up on an M17, rudder draws about the same depth as the bottom of the stub keel with CB up. A few times I have done some maneuvering in shallow waters that way, under sail, and she's still fairly nimble. cheers, John On 12/17/19 9:16 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
I have an IdaRudder on my Monty 17. I bought the blue water version which has a wider chord than the lake only version. Heavier but stronger built. Yes, the leverage you have to deal with is as you said. I chose to lower the rudder and feather the main somewhat when cruising in shoal water. That way the rudder will tend to pop up only when the water is too thin and otherwise says down for better grip on the water. It is a matter of playing with what you have and being attuned to your boat at all times.
On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 11:12 AM Edward Epifani <edepifani@hotmail.com> wrote:
I have a two gudgeon with a tip up rudder. Works fine. If I was going to sail my 15 to Hawaii and be prepared for lying to with sea anchor and subsequent sternway, I’d beef it up. Not going to do that. I bought an Ida Sailor after market tip up for and old( pre motorsailor) MAC 25. Resulted in fantastic windward performance. The company has been bought up by another but maintains stock. Also makes windows. They make Monte aftermarket rudders too. The essential thing about tip ups is that you NEVER sail in high winds with the blade tipped up to shoal position, too much lever arm. If you had five gudgeon/ pintles you could still rip it out of the stern. If you didn’t shatter your tiller first. Ed Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 16, 2019, at 7:42 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
I think you have the OEM gudgeons for that vintage. What number is your hull?
My '74 #38 "Pajarita" came with two gudgeons. There was no sign of them ever having been moved or of others having been in different locations. From a look at some photos when I first got her, location was about identical to yours. Also same as Gerry L's gudgeon location.
Mine also came with what I assume is the OEM rudder of that vintage, which is a two pintle fixed (no slide up, no kick up) rudder with a slight counterbalance leading edge under the keel, forward of the pivot axis. This is actually a more nimble rudder design - faster turning for less effort. But no sliding up for shallow spots/beaching/etc.
I knew I would have some use for a shallower draft option.
So, I bought a used, later model OEM 3-gudgeon slide up rudder from a list member, Jerry found an OEM gudgeon in his parts boxes and sold me that, and I remounted three gudgeons to fit the slide up rudder locations.
I've also remounted the pintles on the original OEM counterbalance rudder to match the new top and bottom gudgeon locations, so I can use either rudder.
If you want the Jerry-designed slide-up you'll need to reconfigure your stern for that. Others here have recommended a place called J-O Woodworks who can make you an OEM style wood rudder for slide-up.
If you spring for the Ruddercraft kick-up, I don't know, but others here have them & could tell you if the pintle location is custom per order (e.g. keep your gudgeons where they are) or some stock position that you might have to remount for.
If you happen to see this Jerry - I'm curious if you remember how many of the counterbalanced rudder 2-pintle M17s you made, way back in the olden days.
cheers, John
On 12/16/19 1:03 PM, David Bailey via montgomery_boats wrote: So,,,, every picture I’ve seen of the stock rudders has the 3 pintle strap configuration. My stern is set up for 2. The stock rudder I bought also has three. Now I’m asking myself, should I relocate two on my rudder, or modify my stern for 3. I have to assume that if my M17 is original, there is a reason for having 3 on the newer generation? Sent from my iPhone
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com