As another possible mind-easing anecdote...my M17 with steel ballast had had water in keel since I don't know when, before I bought it anyhow, and as yet no issues. At some point in its life, someone had busted out (busted down, more accurately) the starboard side of the CB stop pin, then done an extremely lame "repair," which I did not discover for a while as the underside & keel was all painted with anti-fouling. It was when I saw a small wet spot under aft end of keel while it was on trailer in driveway after last use of that season that I realized there was a leak. As part of drain, evaluate & repair I drilled several small holes on each side angled upwards into the keel from near the bottom outside edge. Some of the steel punchings came out from several of the holes. They were loose in cavities in the keel, obviously, not all encapsulated in resin. There was some rusty color in the driveway stain from the water dripping out, but the punchings were not particularly rusty, or more often seemed to have a bit of black surface corrosion, thin and relatively slight. FWIW they smelled of machine oil and most I handled seemed to still have a fine film of machine oil on them. Which would reduce corrosion/rusting to some degree, being a barrier on the surface that doesn't mix readily with water. Anyhow nothing has happened with swelling trunk or keel or sticking CB since then - at least 4, maybe 6 years now? When I realized that leak could have been there for years, including possibly in salt water, I stopped worrying about it. If something happens in future I'll deal with it then. cheers, John On 7/5/21 12:41 PM, Edward Epifani wrote:
Thanks guys. So if I understand correctly 1 ) the steel scrap from washer fabrication was imbedded in polyester resin in the well of the molded keel 2) water intrusion due to slow permeability of polyester resin)resulted in expansion due to oxidation( rust takes up space) 3) resulting in fiberglass failure ( cracks perhaps?) 4) resulting also in pinching of drop board ( is it ballasted too? Also rusts and expands?) 5) some (smallish) owners somehow worked from inside to remove and replace ballast, others removed keel sides, reglassed and faired. 6) repairs are a labor of love, as boatyard fees would be more than the boat is worth
Correct? Do freshwater boats experience this? ( more slowly?) Thanks, Ed Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 5, 2021, at 12:04 PM, Paul Baker <avalonjazz@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Dave, Reading your email just gave me a little piece of mind. I appreciate your input. I will stop thinking about potential problems and enjoy my boat. Paul
On Mon, Jul 5, 2021 at 11:02 AM Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Paul:
Steel ballast rusting in the centerboard or keel of the 15s can happen. For the steel 17s the issue is the keel or cast iron board.
A boat having steel ballast can, and likely, is just fine. My '84 15 was fine. My '83 17 is fine (she was moored on Quartermaster Harbor, Vashon Island, Puget Sound, aka saltwater, for over 20 years and now has a new owner that I communicate with multiple times a year). I know significantly more steel MBoats with ZERO issues.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com <<-- new site!
On Mon, Jul 5, 2021, 10:46 AM Paul Baker <avalonjazz@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Dave, Thanks for clarifying this. I thought only the centerboard could have issues. Are you saying that the keel itself (built into the hull) also can have problems with the steel expanding??
On Mon, Jul 5, 2021, 10:13 AM Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Paul the centerboard M15/17/23 have the ballast encapsulated in the hull. The hull is one piece and then the mix of ballast material (steel washer centers on the old boats and lead BBs for those after middle-ish 80s) is poured in.
This is a good thing actually as boats with bolt-on keels have a long list of issues.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com <<-- new site!
-- There are only 3 types of people in the world. Ones that can count and ones that can't.
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